Originally posted by Screwie: Well, light doesn't suck...
Humm I don't know about that. If light can't escape from a black hole (hence the term) then light must have mass otherwise it would not be effected by gravity. Hummmmmmmmm
Well, E=MC^2, which means to get to light speed a particle's mass would become infinite, which makes it impossible to get to light speed. Light has no intrinsic mass, that's why it can go at light speed. But, here it comes, gravity bends spacetime! So light follows the path set by gravity in spacetime. So, in fact, light does not suck, as it has no intrinsic mass!
Originally posted by Screwie: Well, E=MC^2, which means to get to light speed a particle's mass would become infinite, which makes it impossible to get to light speed. Light has no intrinsic mass, that's why it can go at light speed. But, here it comes, gravity bends spacetime! So light follows the path set by gravity in spacetime. So, in fact, light does not suck, as it has no intrinsic mass!
but if the reason that light cant escape from a black hole is because space/time has got bent and light follows a curve back into it, such that it cant escape out the other side,
then nothing should be able to enter a black hole either - if there is a path IN you can follow it backwards and get back out.
which means a black hole CANT capture light.
cant have it both ways! How can you bend space/time such that light can find a path in, but cant find a path back out?!
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frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
I havent been able to touch the rim since my sophomore year in high school. That was the only year I could touch the rim.
Now I can touch the net!!!
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Leper No longer registered
Report this Post10-19-2001 09:12 PM
Leper
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quote
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: but if the reason that light cant escape from a black hole is because space/time has got bent and light follows a curve back into it, such that it cant escape out the other side,
then nothing should be able to enter a black hole either - if there is a path IN you can follow it backwards and get back out.
which means a black hole CANT capture light.
cant have it both ways! How can you bend space/time such that light can find a path in, but cant find a path back out?!
Because a black hole is supposed to bend space/time so much that it breaks. Apparantly light doesn't turn around when it reaches the end of it's path.
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09:12 PM
Wolfhound Member
Posts: 5317 From: Opelika , Alabama, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Gravity is what sucks, The earth is just the first thing you hit! If there was a hole through the earth, to the other side, and you fell in what would happen? how many changes in direction would you make before you reached a point where you were no longer moving? Would you be weightless?
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09:23 PM
malacite Member
Posts: 2213 From: Casselberry Fl 32707 Registered: Oct 2001
if you fell in a hole through the earth (assuing you could survive the plunge through the molten core) you would probably be crushed down to the size of a sugar cube.
i think that would suck too.
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09:26 PM
Fformula88 Member
Posts: 7891 From: Buffalo, NY Registered: Mar 2000
12 grade physics isn't enough for me to figure out if this effects the conversation or not (sorry, I was a History major in college) but I fairly recently read in I believe USA today (might have been Newsweek) that scientists believe that the speed of light may not be a constant. If memory serves me right, they think that light slows down as it travels distant... albiet very slowly. I don't remember the basis for this (I know, what good am I :rolleyes .
The earth is 3,500 miles from the center to the surface. If there somehow could be a hole through it, and you fell in
then you would reach terminal velocity in about 10 seconds, same as a skydiver does, where the air resistance on your body matched the suckyness of gravity - so you would fall at 200 mph the whole way.
3,500 miles / 200 mph = 17.5 hrs - thats how long you would fall (crude estimate)
but of course the air pressure would increase as you approached the center, and gravity would decrease so you would slow down more and more and probabally stop at the center - at which point the air pressure would be about 400 times what it is on the surface of the earth.
there is also good evidence that the speed of light is slowing down at an exponetial rate - at the time of the big bang it was much faster.
something to do with the density of matter in the universe - as the universe expands out the speed of light gets slower.
the interesting part of this is einstiens equation: energy contained in matter = it mass times the speed of light squared (e=mc^2).
so if c keeps slowing down, then the energy in the universe keeps reducing too - and eventually the matter will all be dispersed and will contain no energy.
i believe they call that 'heat death'. when there is no more energy left in the universe.
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11:33 PM
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Cheever3000 Member
Posts: 12398 From: The Man from Tallahassee Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by ray b: gravity can bend light see the new scientific american 11-01 on gravity's cosmic lenses. and light sails work as light has some very small mass.
Light exibits both mass and energy, that is why it behaves as a particle and as a wave of energy... When it is a paricle it is traveling as fast as it can, but the mass slows it down below a critical point and it becomes energy, and speeds up till it becomes a particle and has mass, etc... So the speed of light is just an average of it's fastest and slowest speeds... Now, is the light pure energy when it is made to go faster than the speed of light?
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02:09 AM
GarethWright Member
Posts: 400 From: Broken Arrow, Ok, USA Registered: Oct 2000
Ok, heres some things I heard in High School Science class. 1. As objects approach the speed of light, their mass increases until it becomes infinite at the speed of light. 2. The faster an object travels, the slower time passes relative to the rest of the universe. 3. Velocity is Speed and Direction, Speed is measured in Distance over Time and Acceleration is a change in Velocity. Heres what happens when you put those together.
*IF* an object in deep space was moving with no gravity or resistance to slow it down, time for that object would slow relative to the rest of the universe, infinitesimally at first, but it would then be covering the same distance in LESS (universal) time, and so accelerating, which would increase the time differential exponentially. Eventually this object would approach the speed of light, achieve infinite mass, and implode the universe down onto itself.
Many years ago people believed that if you went over 25 mph the air would be passing so fast, you wouldn't have time to breathe it in, and you would die, more recently (like 60 years ago) people thought that the sound barrier was unbreakable. Now its the speed of light we "know" we can't beat.
[This message has been edited by GarethWright (edited 10-20-2001).]
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03:08 AM
GarethWright Member
Posts: 400 From: Broken Arrow, Ok, USA Registered: Oct 2000
Ok, heres some things I heard in High School Science class. 1. As objects approach the speed of light, their mass increases until it becomes infinite at the speed of light. 2. The faster an object travels, the slower time passes relative to the rest of the universe. 3. Velocity is Speed and Direction, Speed is measured in Distance over Time and Acceleration is a chance in Velocity. Heres what happens when you put those together.
*IF* an object in deep space was moving with no gravity or resistance to slow it down, time for that object would slow relative to the rest of the universe, infinitesimally at first, but it would then be covering the same distance in LESS (universal) time, and so accelerating, which would increase the time differential exponentially. Eventually this object would approach the speed of light, achieve infinite mass, and implode the universe down onto itself.
Many years ago people believed that if you went over 25 mph the air would be passing so fast, you wouldn't have time to breathe it in, and you would die, more recently (like 60 years ago) people thought that the sound barrier was unbreakable. Now its the speed of light we "know" we can't beat.
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03:10 AM
artherd Member
Posts: 4159 From: Petaluma, CA. USA Registered: Apr 2001
I Find it very intresting to compare the gravitational constant of acceleration to the electrical constant of acceleration, with the proportional 'sizes' of a proton and electron....
Turns out they're both composed of numbers ~4.7x10-42 if I recall correctly... Infact, they're the same ratio down to one part in several billion (and that's just the measured expirimental precision limit, ie how fine our tapemeasures are to see this stuff. So far...)
Now that is just TOO much of a concidence, and if we could just figure out what the HELL it means (other than that the speed of light isn't even a speed at all, it's an infinity-minus propogation rate limit through 'space' whatever that is...) then we'd really well and truely KNOW!!!
PS: x10-42? Fourty-two? The irony was not lost on one Douglas Adams, may his sould rest sipping coctails in his favourite resturant...
Best! Ben.
PS: Dreams are real, and that stuff we call 'reality' when we're 'awake'? Freaky-weird nightmares man.
quote
Originally posted by Screwie: Well, E=MC^2, which means to get to light speed a particle's mass would become infinite, which makes it impossible to get to light speed. Light has no intrinsic mass, that's why it can go at light speed. But, here it comes, gravity bends spacetime! So light follows the path set by gravity in spacetime. So, in fact, light does not suck, as it has no intrinsic mass!
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red 88 Formula, Silver 87 Coupe, Metalic Red "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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03:24 AM
fierohoho Member
Posts: 3494 From: Corner of No and Where Registered: Apr 2001
It is a scientific fact that when a slice of bread with peanut butter falls from a table,it will achieve the speed of light and time will seem to slow down.You will see it fall and CANNOT react.It also will land peanut butter side down!This is due to the fact that the peanut butter side is heavier and therefore falls faster.I've tried this experiment(inadvertantly)many times,and it has proven to be true every time!
Originally posted by Fierowrecker: Light exibits both mass and energy, that is why it behaves as a particle and as a wave of energy... When it is a paricle it is traveling as fast as it can, but the mass slows it down below a critical point and it becomes energy, and speeds up till it becomes a particle and has mass, etc... So the speed of light is just an average of it's fastest and slowest speeds... Now, is the light pure energy when it is made to go faster than the speed of light?
Well actually not, the particle-wave paradox is only present when you observe the particle in a certain way, light itself though is a wave-particle (according to quantum mechanics). Nice thing is that with superstring theory, the "wave-particle" does not exist anymore and a particle is a one-dimensional string. Light is pure energy (photons are pure energy).
Originally posted by GarethWright: Ok, heres some things I heard in High School Science class. 1. As objects approach the speed of light, their mass increases until it becomes infinite at the speed of light. 2. The faster an object travels, the slower time passes relative to the rest of the universe. 3. Velocity is Speed and Direction, Speed is measured in Distance over Time and Acceleration is a chance in Velocity. Heres what happens when you put those together.
*IF* an object in deep space was moving with no gravity or resistance to slow it down, time for that object would slow relative to the rest of the universe, infinitesimally at first, but it would then be covering the same distance in LESS (universal) time, and so accelerating, which would increase the time differential exponentially. Eventually this object would approach the speed of light, achieve infinite mass, and implode the universe down onto itself.
Many years ago people believed that if you went over 25 mph the air would be passing so fast, you wouldn't have time to breathe it in, and you would die, more recently (like 60 years ago) people thought that the sound barrier was unbreakable. Now its the speed of light we "know" we can't beat.
Hmm, the mistake you make here I think, is the fact that you suggest there is "universal time". There is no "universal" or absolute time according to relativity theory. There is just spacetime. And also, if we could go faster than the speed of light, we could travel back in time... Haven't seen any future people around here yet, you?
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08:00 AM
fogglethorpe Member
Posts: 4828 From: Valley of the Sun Registered: Jul 2001
if the power rangers was never created then the earth wouldn't suck!
are we talking about gravity or light?
Just recently, scientists were able to produce light faster then the speed of light. I didn't watch the news coverage so i didn't know what they did. But when you drive your car and you turn on your headlights, isn't the speed of light is going that speed plus the speed of the vehicle?
What ive read is that gravity is caused by a magnetic field. Thats why we have the the compass readings etc...
If anyone flies, they know that compass north isn't true north.
Woohoo Cats and Dogs is on video.
And that we are pulled down by the bonds in atoms.
And if theres all these sucking going on, whose doing the swallowing?
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09:01 AM
Wolfhound Member
Posts: 5317 From: Opelika , Alabama, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Hugh, If bread always lands buttered side down and a cat always lands on it,s feet, what do you get if you tape a piece of buttered bread to a cats back? An antigravity machine, that is rumored to be the power source for UFO,s
Originally posted by fierospeeder: if the power rangers was never created then the earth wouldn't suck!
Well the Fiero was created, so the earth definitely does not suck
are we talking about gravity or light?
Both
Just recently, scientists were able to produce light faster then the speed of light. I didn't watch the news coverage so i didn't know what they did.
Interesting, wonder how they did that...
But when you drive your car and you turn on your headlights, isn't the speed of light is going that speed plus the speed of the vehicle?
No, the speed of light is constant, even if you go 100000km/s holding a flashlight, the light would still travel away from you with 300000km/s. And also, even if you go towards light with 100000km/s, the total speed of light would still be 300000km/s.
What ive read is that gravity is caused by a magnetic field. Thats why we have the the compass readings etc...
Nope that's the earth's magnetic field, which is a different force (the electroweak force to be precise) and not gravity.
If anyone flies, they know that compass north isn't true north.
That's because the geographic north is slightly different from the "magnetic north".
Woohoo Cats and Dogs is on video.
Cool, I still want to see that one, but it's just in cinmeas here in Europe.
And that we are pulled down by the bonds in atoms.
Nope, that's another force yet again
And if theres all these sucking going on, whose doing the swallowing?
Well, a black hole will swallow you (maybe get you into another universe through a wormhole!)
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09:32 AM
Fformula88 Member
Posts: 7891 From: Buffalo, NY Registered: Mar 2000
2. The faster an object travels, the slower time passes relative to the rest of the universe.
GarethWright (edited 10-20-2001).]
I have a question about this. Time will appear to slow "realitive" to the position you are in while viewing the object. If the distance is increasing then the objects "light" slows since it is traveling opposite the object.
If this is true then an object AT the speed of light will emit no light if it is traveling directly away from you. It will appear to have stopped or vanished. How ever if You were directly in front of the object it would not appear to change at all. The only way to effect time is if you were to the side of the object. Time will be distorted since the light emitted from the object is "bent" in an arc realitive to the distance between you and the object because it takes "time" for the light to travel to you. Much like hitting a clay pigeon you need to aim where it is going in order to hit it. SO the way I see it "time" is the only constant. Light is not, time never changes as far as my small mind can see.
OOPS I was thinking light has physical properties. but still isn't light effected by speed?
I love this stuff.
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 10-20-2001).]
What ive read is that gravity is caused by a magnetic field. Thats why we have the the compass readings etc... Well our good friend Newton says that ALL mater has gravity no matter how small or large. Even an apple has gravity
Originally posted by 84Bill: I have a question about this. Time will appear to slow "realitive" to the position you are in while viewing the object. If the distance is increasing then the objects "light" slows since it is traveling opposite the object.
If this is true then an object AT the speed of light will emit no light if it is traveling directly away from you. It will appear to have stopped or vanished. How ever if You were directly in front of the object it would not appear to change at all. The only way to effect time is if you were to the side of the object. Time will be distorted since the light emitted from the object is "bent" in an arc realitive to the distance between you and the object because it takes "time" for the light to travel to you. Much like hitting a clay pigeon you need to aim where it is going in order to hit it. SO the way I see it "time" is the only constant. Light is not, time never changes as far as my small mind can see.
Well, it's hard to understand I know (we don't notice IRL that time slows down if you go really fast) Is cool though, if you just keep on driving at top speed, you don't grow old as fast. Good excuse next time the police stops you while speeding
Anyway, if a light emitting object travels away from you, the color of light shifts to red, but light would still come towards you, as the speed of light is constant. (just keep in mind that the speed of light IS constant, then play around a bit with that idea, it took me some time to understand it as well! I still don't understand it 100% now though, as it does make you
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