Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: and if time is the fourth dimension how is it at right angles to the other three?!
time does not fit the requirements to be a direction. If I stand in an XYZ space I can move in the X direction without moving in the Y or Z direction. Which way do I turn so I can move in the X direction without moving through time?!
time is not a physical dimension.
BTW someone mentinoed they dont understand how the big bang happened.
its simple. Before the big bang there was no matter, there was no energy, and there was no time (time did not exist before the big bang)
also there was no space either.
there was nothing.
then it exploded!
I cant really say when it exploded, cause there was no time before it exploded, so I dont know how it could go from not exploded to exploded, since time didnt exist
but at some point in non-time and non-space, nothing exploded.
what part of this is so confusing?!
:c)
The rules for a one or two dimensional world does not fit for a Three Dimesional World. Seems to me the rules for a three dimesional world would not fit a Fourth dimesional world either.
Now as for the Big Bang therory, as you stated there was nothing then all of a sudden there was the three dimesions we can measure and manipulate. Aw, but WAIT, TIME, we can measure and manipulate it also and it has been proven! It must have started the same TIME as the bang and everything else.
Everything we do seems to revolve around where and when we are in X Y Z & TIME. Time is the fourth dimesion or a dimesion that is relative to the other 3 everyone accepts at this time. Ha Ha
Every three dimesional object we now know of will change it's form given enough time.
Ken, I was wondering if I could get you to see a different way of looking at time. Guess I'll WAIT and see.
Bet you never thought this subject would have come this FAR and lasted this LONG.
I figured I throw this in just for the heck of it. I was just reading that the hubble took some extriemly distant photos of a galixy. it did this by using what they called a "gravitational lense" from what I understand the light coming from that galixy is bent ("refracted?") by the gravitation of a much closer galixy causing a kind of lense effect. that would mean that light is "bent and magnified" Now here is the interesting part Gravity IS "by far" the weakest of all forces in the universe yet it can bend light in high concentrations. Now if what Screwie says is true that gravity bends spacetime and light follows spacetime. SO if we were to develop a more powerfull force that could bend spacetime (magnetic)then there is a good chance we could bend it in such a way to permeit travel? maybe?
Okay Ken, let's look at it another way. Think of the sun as the bowlingball you talked about. Think of that bedsheet. Now we put the bowlingball in it, it distorts the bedsheet (bends it). However, this is a simplified version of what happens in spacetime. Think of two beds put at a 90 degree angle of eachother. Now place the bowlingball at the intersection part of the two beds. Vertically (on the one bed) and horizontally (on the other) the bedsheets will be "bent". So it bends the bed in those two dimensions! You can't imagine it the way it is in real spacetime, but it works the same in all dimensions of spacetime. So spacetime is bent, not one dimension.
By the way, you cannot imagine spacetime, it's far too abstract and you would have to be able to think in more dimensions (which is impossible)
84Bill: that's the idea behind warp travel
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01:38 PM
Fiero5 Member
Posts: 8882 From: Arecibo, PR Registered: Jun 2000
" warping space is like taking a paper clip that is straightened out, and instead of travelling the lenght of the wire, you bend it into a U shape so the ends are almost touching
then to travel from one end to the other, instead of going the whole lenght of the wire you jump sideways to the other end.
this is what 'warping space' is all about"
True, but what I am refering to is a warp bubble, not warped space. Warping space is litterally impossible as I understand it. This would require humans to change not only the laws of physics, but the laws of way the known universe works. Even Gene Roddenberry and the many writers of Star Trek understood that, as even the power required and the physical demands were on such an enormous scale as to make it impossible to be even remotely real. So they went with the more plausable theory of a warp bubble. The USS Enterprise and other ships of Star Fleet (and other alien species ships obviously) had the "warp" engines build up a warp bubble 'around' the ship and in essence slingshot the ship into space.
Now we have scientists and physicists who are agreeing even more with this idea and designing ways this will actually work. In Star Trek, they had to "create" a semi small substance of great power to make the warp bubble - The Dilithium crystal. In reality we obviously do not have anything with this type of power in that size ..... yet.
Steve
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02:00 PM
Fiero5 Member
Posts: 8882 From: Arecibo, PR Registered: Jun 2000
I haven't researched much into the idea of a fourth dimension in the past. So I figured I would go to the experts. Here is a clip off the web about the third dimension and what is and isn't possible about a fourth. Enjoy -
>>>>>>>>>>>> "The idea that we live in a world with more than three dimensions is a tantalizing one, and generally, just thinking about the subject for a while can leave one with an achy head. I'm not talking about time. It's commonly accepted that time is the "fourth" dimension, but it's too easy for people to just say, "Time is the fourth dimension," and leave it at that. This writing is to give you a splitting headache, as you try to visualize what a fourth spacial dimension really means.
To start, we must think about what the world would be like with less dimensions and what it means to expand that world into higher levels of existence.
The very most basic state of existence is zero dimensions. A single point by itself exists within no dimensions. If there was an inhabitant of such a place, it would be the only one. It wouldn't understand the concept of "something else" existing, as there is no room in a point for anything but one, single point.
Now, in our reality of three dimensions, it's easy for us to visualize what would result if the point were given a dimension to travel in. Suddenly, the point is no longer all that exists, as there are an infinite number of other possible points between any two points on a line or in space. The point can now travel back and forth on a line, and it might even eat up some other points and get fat, turning itself into a line segment.
Life in one dimension would get boring pretty quickly, as all there is to do is bounce back and forth between whatever two boundaries you run into. If there is another line segment blocking your way, there is no going "around" it. You could turn around and go the other way, or push the other line segment further down the line in order to expand your area of movement. It may also be possible to somehow consume the other line segment, such that it becomes part of yourself, and then you could see what lies beyond it (some more space to move, and then another line segment).
Well, living in a one dimensional world would be fun for about 5 minutes, and quickly lose its appeal. If we go one step further and expand the line into a plane, there are many more possibilities. Now it's possible for the line segments to combine in different patterns and shapes. If you were in this world, you could slide around in all kinds of directions, running into other inhabitants and going around them. There would be all sorts of shapes of things to look at, but you still would have to slide around and look at them from all directions in order to see the whole of their shape.
An interesting thing about living in two dimensions is that you can essentially see the insides, or guts, of a being living only in one dimension. To a line segment, all it can see is the point on one end or another of the other two segments with which it can interact (remember, it can't go around them, so it really only knows of the existence of the two beings on either end of itself). Whatever is between two external points is a complete mystery to a one-dimensioner. A being in two dimensions, however, can easily see the whole of a line at one time. Every point of a line is visible at once to a two-dimensional being.
Living in two dimensions, you would run into an expanded concept of the same limitation. If there is a being that is a circle on the outside, with a square inside, and a triangle inside of that, all you would see in two dimensions is the outer circle (without butchering the poor thing, of course).
Now, back to our three dimensions, we can look with a slightly different perspective at how we actually see the world around us. We've got a whole assortment of three-dimensional shapes to look at. A complex three-dimensional shape is really an infinite number of simpler two-dimensional shapes stacked on top of each other. For instance, if you slice the top off of a pyramid and look at just the two dimensional plane at the top, you see a small square. Chopping off another layer results in another, slightly larger square. Stacking progrogressively smaller squares on top of each other results in our three-dimensional shape of a pyramid.
A great perk of living in three dimensions is that we can easily see the guts of any two-dimensional being. With one glance, we see the whole circle, as well as the square inside of it, and the triangle inside of that. We can even poke around at that inner triangle without disturbing the outer circle. How nice it would be for two-dimensional surgeons to be able to do that, as they wouldn't need to cut open their patients!
By continuing our expansion in the same manner as we've been discussing, we end up with a reality of four dimensions. A being in the fourth dimension sees our three-dimensional world as an infinitely thin slice of reality. If you were looking at something from a four-dimensional viewpoint, you'd be able to see not only every ouside surface of the object simultaneously, but also whatever's contained in the object. A being with four physical dimensions might travel through our three-dimensional plane, and if we saw it, it would look like a strange object appearing out of nowhere, morphing in shape for a while, and then disappearing.
This is the same concept of what a two-dimensional being would see if a pyramid were to travel through its plane. First it would see a point appear out of nowhere, then it would expand into a larger and larger square, finally just disappearing into thin air as the pyramid moved on. Actually, what it would see is dependent on the angle the pyramid intersects the plane, and whether it's rotating. It might also see a line appear, morph into a trapezoid, and then shrink into a tiny point and disappear.
Four-dimensional beings would be excellent surgeons; for instance, they could remove the bullet from a shooting-victim as easily as you could remove the triangle from the middle of the circle in the earlier example. Just put your finger on the triangle, and push it over into the third dimension, move it a little left or right, and push it back into the plane of the two-dimensional being. This would be quite a miracle, as the circle feels the triangle diappear from its body and reappear next to it, seemingly from nowhere.
Now that we've gone over the concept of the fouth dimension, questions still remain, "If there is a fourth dimension, where is it? Why don't we see it and why are we trapped in these three dimensions?" The obvious answer is that the fourth dimension does not exist. This makes perfect sense, just as the third dimension essentially does not exist to a being that exists only in a world of two dimensions.
Many theoretical physicists believe that the fourth dimension does exist, but it has curled up into a tiny ball (they call it the fifth dimension, as time is actually the fourth). This also makes sense if you can imagine a one-dimensional line world actually being a two-dimensional world curled up into a tiny cylinder. The cylinder is so small that the line segment itself actually extends completely around it. It could travel, in a way, in the second dimension, but it would not realize it. To us in higher dimensions, it would seem the line segment was spinning, but to the segment itself, nothing would be happening since it has no point of reference to base its spinning.
I'm hoping by now you've got a pulsating migrane from trying to visualize these things. You might want to pop some aspirin and check out some additional Physics sites for even more in-depth study of these concepts.
hehe, well it's actually quite cool if you think about it. And superstring theory as far as I understand it, makes a lot of sense. They incorporate more dimensions (Calabi-Yau formed spaces, if ya know what I mean )in a sensible way.
The three dimensions we see are just extended dimensions. Luckily there aren't anymore extended dimensions, cause we definitely couldn't live in such a world.
the 4D surgeon can be pictured very easily thinking of time as the 4th dimension - you get shot, you go see the 4D MD, he goes back in the 4th D (time) and intercepts the bullet before it hits you, then he comes back and hands the bullet to you, which is not longer in your body
or he goes back and stops a tumor before it grows, or gives you vitamin C before you get rickets...
The interesting thing about the 4th dimension is, do we have any mass in that dimension - is there any aspect to our bodies that exists in that 'direction'
if so then its possible for us to touch each other in the part of our bodies that exist there, without touching each other in the 3 dimensions we can perceve - maybe this is why you sometimes feel someone is watching you, or someone is standing close to you and you can tell they are there.
but if there is a 4th dimension and you somehow got twisted 90° on that plane, then either your 4th diemnsional aspects would then be visable in the 3 dimensions, or if we dont have any part of our bodies that exist in the 4th diemension, then we would appear to become 2 dimensional - we would become flat in this coordinate system when we got twisted into the 4th ones plane.
Its not too hard to imagine a 4th physical dimension. If you take a cube and hold it over a piece of paper in the sunlight, the 3 dimensional cube casts a 2 dimensional shadow onto the paper, and it changes as you rotate the cube.
Likewise a 4 dimensional shape would cast a 3 dimensional shadow into our space, and it would change shape as you rotate the shape in the 4th dimension.
what would this be like? again imagine time is the 4th dimension. If I could move myself + or - 44 years in the 'time direction' while you sit there and watch me, I would alter from a 44 year old, to an infant, back to a 44 year old, to an 88 year old man, and you would see a single person morphing right in front of your eyes, changing in size and shape and apperance with nothing else touching me or causing the changes.
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: ... a 4 dimensional shape would cast a 3 dimensional shadow into our space...
So, would the 3d shadow of the 4d object also cast a shadow down to 2d? (like 3d objects do in Our 3 perceptual dimensions) If so, then the 2d would shadow down to 1d and then to 0d. So maybe our 3 perceptual dimensions contain shadows of objects existing in higher dimensions, but, as we only currently exist in 3 dimensions, we cannot tell the difference between 3d objects, and the 3d shadows of higher dimensional objects. If we could percieve the 4th dimension, we could differentiate the real 3rd dimensional objects from the shadows of the 4th dimension, due to our higher vantage point. But the 4th dimension would also contain shadows from the 5th and up, so we would be stuck again.
Yes if there is an aspect to our bodies that exists in the 4th dimension then its possible that under certain conditions that part of us would be visable in our three D space - this could be what an aura is.
if you go back to the analogy of the 2D being, who live on piece of paper - he might think he is a disk like a pizza with a graphite core surrounded by wood, surrounded by a circle of yellow paint becasue that is all he can perceive - not realizing that he is really a pencil that extend 'up' 6 inches into the mysterious Z direction, and he would never know there is an eraser up there in the part of his body he is not aware of.
if you want to think of time as the fourth dimension again, then your body extends from the time of your conception until the time of your death and decomposition in the forth dimension - so on that plane your body is 80 years 'long' - and its all connected - where your body will be 1 hour from now depends on where it is now. If you cut your finger off then its severed in 3D space, but in 4D space it will always be attached in the past, and it will tree off - maybe it will be reconnected further down the line in 4D space.
If you think about it this way, then the egg and the spermcell that became you tree'd off from your parents - so in 4D space you are 'forever' attached to your parents, and they to their parents, in a giant tree like structure that goes all the way back to Adam and Eve - so in the 4th dimension, if it is time, we are all connected - the human race is a giant tree structure.
Visualize that for a while - keep the bottle of Advil close by.
Well, I don't agree with you Ken. Can you imagine a 4 dimensional object? I sure can't, and you'd be the first person to be able to do that. Yes, you can say a 4 dimensional object casts a 3d shadow, but what does the 4d object look like?
Then there's another problem, why don't we see the 5th dimension? If it was extended just like the normal three dimensions, where is it? Now, if we can't see it, if we can't feel it, if it does not have an effect on us, than how do you know it exists? Does it even matter if it does? Physics right now has no calculations in which another extended dimension exists, as everything that happens can be explained using the extended dimensions we have now plus curled up dimensions. An extra extended dimension would not make sense as physics tells us we will be unable to live in such a world. That means that even if such a dimension exists, it would be totally irrelevant to what is going on in the universe, and so falls in the realm of the mystical and not real science.
a 4d shape is easy to visualize. make two cubes out of straws or wire, then connect the corresponding corners of the two cubes together.
and you have the shadow that a 4D hypercube would cast into 3D space. There are the two original cubes, and they are connected together by 6 more cubes (I think its 6)
so just like you draw a 3d cube on paper by drawing two squares, and connecting the corners, the hyper cube is like that in 3d space.
every 12 sets of edges defines a square cube in 4d space, but in the shadow of it you are looking at in 3d space some of the cubes looks slanted
just like some of the squares in a cube look slanted when you draw one on paper.
if you can understand that in 4D space all 8 cubes in the hypercube are 'square' then you are very close to visualizing 4D space.
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: If you think about it this way, then the egg and the spermcell that became you tree'd off from your parents - so in 4D space you are 'forever' attached to your parents, and they to their parents, in a giant tree like structure that goes all the way back to Adam and Eve - so in the 4th dimension, if it is time, we are all connected - the human race is a giant tree structure.
Visualize that for a while - keep the bottle of Advil close by.
What about the fact that people aren't made up of the same matter throughout their lives? That matter would be intertwined with them throuout the 4th dimension also. Then, when you die and decompose, you are spread out even further through the dimension of time and are intertwined with [I hate to rip off Disney movie songs.] the circle of life.
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08:50 PM
Fierowrecker Member
Posts: 1858 From: Lowell, MI. USA Registered: Mar 2001
Originally posted by Screwie: Well, it's hard to understand I know (we don't notice IRL that time slows down if you go really fast) Is cool though, if you just keep on driving at top speed, you don't grow old as fast. Good excuse next time the police stops you while speeding
Anyway, if a light emitting object travels away from you, the color of light shifts to red, but light would still come towards you, as the speed of light is constant. (just keep in mind that the speed of light IS constant, then play around a bit with that idea, it took me some time to understand it as well! I still don't understand it 100% now though, as it does make you
OK... IF the velosity of light is a constant, then how can there be a red shift or blue shift of light spectrum from the stars? You can only have a shift when the frequency has changed... It is the same effect of sound... Dopler shift... The FREQUENCY (color) of light changes, but the velocity remains constant... If a vehicle travels at the speed of light away from you, you will see a shift to the red, infrared, etc... If it is coming at you, it will shift to blue, ultraviolet, etc... to be continued...
the thing about the speed of light that blows your mind is that its speed is the same even when you are moving towards the source, or away from it.
if you set up a pair of microphones on a car, one on the front and one on the back, and stand still while an explosion is triggered a distance away, and measure how long it takes for the sound wave to travel from the front of your car to the rear the speed of the sound will be 330 meters per second - so it would take about 15 milliseconds for the sound to travel from the front mic to the rear mic.
now if you drive towards the explosion very fast then it will take less time between the sound hitting the front mic and the rear mic, becasue the sound is moving and you are moving.
now this is the part that is weird. With light, the same test, the time it would take for light to get from the front sensor to the rear one is the same, all the time.
it doesnt matter if you a sitting still, or driving towards the light at half the speed of light, or driving away from it at 99.999% the speed of light.
In otherwords, you cant tell how fast you are travelling in space by measuring how fast light is passing by you - cause its always the same - its a constant!
I know this sounds wrong - but this IS the theory of realitivity. Its weird stuff.
BUT you can tell how fast you are travelling if you measure the color shift of the light as it goes by. If you tavel between two white stars at half the speed of light, the one behind you will look red, and the one infront of you will look blue.
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: In otherwords, you cant tell how fast you are travelling in space by measuring how fast light is passing by you - cause its always the same - its a constant!
quote
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: BUT you can tell how fast you are travelling if you measure the color shift of the light as it goes by. If you tavel between two white stars at half the speed of light, the one behind you will look red, and the one infront of you will look blue.
then if you stop they will both look white again.
Sounds contradictory Ken. Looking at light as a frequency blue being a higher frequency than red this means you would be traveling toward the blue. Isn't this if fact the doppler effect?
the frequency you perceive and the speed at which light passes you is not the same thing, although it seems like it should be.
think about this - you can be travelling away from someone at 99.9999% the speed of light - and that person turns on a flashlite
if you measure when the light hits the back of your ship, and how long it takes to reach the front of your ship, the light still passes you at the speed of light.
so what does that mean?! has your ship shrunk down to where its shorter? Has time slowed down on your ship so the light takes the same amount of time to get from rear to front?! - thats what realitivity dictates.
to an outside observer the light takes longer to pass your ship, cause you are moving away from it as it overtakes you, but from onboard the moving ship it takes the same amount of time to pass the ship as if the ship were standing still. So an event that you perceive as taking, say 1/10th of a second, the outside observer might perceive as taking 10 seconds.
but the color of light you see shifts depending on your speed relative to its source.
How can time be the 4th dimension? you'd think that if that were the case then it would be possible for 2 objects to exist in the same place at the same time. Objects that move would appear to have a trail behind them that would remain throughout time and since the time dimension is visible can be seen forever from start to finish and everywhere in between. Am I correct or is this the irational dribble of a lysergicly enhanced mind
you almost got it right - if time is the forth dimenion then we leave a 'physical' trail everywhere we go, we leave it in time.
in 3 d space two things can be in the same X and Y place as long as they are not at the same Z location.
in XYZ time space (spacetime) two things can be at the same XYZ place as long as they are not there at the same 'time' space.
it is a neat way of looking at it - if time is a dimension then your body exists in that 'space' from your conception to your death - so you 'leave a trail' through time - you cant exist one day, not exist the next, and exist again two days later.
and if your body is in NYC today and in LA tomorrow, then it must be connected in between.
What you are today depends on what you were yesterday. What you will be tomorrow depends on what you are today - because in the time space your body is connected at all those points.
you also bring up an interesting point - I a being existed outside time, say God for example, then he would be able to see you in all 4 dimensions, and would see you from your conception to your death, and everywhere in between, all at once, like you were some kinda long ropelike creatures.
just like I can look at you and see all of you from your toes to the hair on your head, from one end to the other, all at once.
Light, form of energy visible to the human eye that is radiated by moving charged particles. Light from the sun provides the energy needed for plant growth. Plants convert the energy in sunlight into storable chemical form through a process called photosynthesis. Petroleum, coal, and natural gas are the remains of plants that lived millions of years ago, and the energy these fuels release when they burn is the chemical energy converted from sunlight. When animals digest the plants and animals they eat, they also release energy stored by photosynthesis.
Scientists have learned through experimentation that light behaves like a particle at times and like a wave at other times. The particle like features are called photons. Photons are different from particles of matter in that they have no mass and always move at the constant speed of 300,000 km/sec (186,000 mi/sec) when they are in a vacuum. When light diffracts, or bends slightly as it passes around a corner, it shows wavelike behavior. The waves associated with light are called electromagnetic waves because they consist of changing electric and magnetic fields.
if gravity can bend or warps timespace, being the weakest of the known forces, then what can the stronger forces, electon to proton attraction, or the much stronger subatomic 'near' forces do to timespace?
a photon cant be a particle for two reasons:
1. no matter can be acellerated to light speed - the energy required is infinite
2. I can hook a light bulb to a generator and turn the handle all day long and the atoms in the filiment are excited and change charge states, and emit photons all day long. If a photon has mass, which part of the atom in the tungston filiment is it coming from?!
wouldnt the light bulb run out of photons eventaully?
if light is electromagnetic energy, so are Xrays and radio waves. Why do we not insist that radiowave also are particles and waves?!
maybe when a photon of light is emmitted from an atom, maybe some tiny disturbance happens on the subatomic level and a warp bubble is created, which then streams off through space at the speed of light?
Lightbulb hummm electricity is the movement of electrons from one atom to another. electrons are held by magnetic forces. when you move an electron from an atom it (I assume)causes a tiny magnetic disturbence and the same happens when another enters orbit around the neuclius, get a crapload of electrons moving and they will start to generate heat then that has some effect on the process until a critical point then light happens. ahh I'm rabbeling again! Anyways, how does light happen?
it is an interesting question - if you cant figure out what light is by observing it, maybe you can figure out what it is by looking where it comes from.
I wonder, can you make an electical circuit that pulses electricity though a light bulb, at just the right amount, so that only photon is emitted? that would be cool.
faster than light is the limit not lightspeed cyclelontron accelerater can get most particals up to light speed[with huge input of energy] and do so now to study quarks and other things like Z, higs particals ect. photons have very very small mass. all forms of radiation are photons at diff energy levels red/blue shifts can and do move the photons in to infrared/radio wave levels or ultraviolet the more the shift the more lightyears away they are from us = fast speeds away from us. light is made when a electron sheds a energy level and drops in orbit to a lower level around a atom [cools] in a lite bulb the 110volts ac input is the power turn off the switch and lights go out.photons are made not stored in atoms.
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 10-25-2001).]
photons are made - and they have a very small mass?!
how can you make mass? how can an atom in a light bulb filiment keep 'making' photons - esp if photons have mass - ie they are particles?
as I understand E=mc^2, when an atom is split its the 'near force' energy that is given off, and the protons, neutrons and electrons are split off into all directions.
the E from the equation is from the near force bond being broken. Is this not correct?! are the protons and electrons actully turned into energy, never to exist again?
is electrical energy somehow turned into matter - ie photons?! cause if I put a meter on both sides of a light bulb, the same amount of current that is going in, comes out the other side - no electrons are lost
so where do the photons come from?!
the more we talk about this the more bizzare it becomes!
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: photons are made - and they have a very small mass?! YES
how can you make mass? how can an atom in a light bulb filiment keep 'making' photons - esp if photons have mass - ie they are particles?
as I understand E=mc^2, when an atom is split its the 'near force' energy that is given off, and the protons, neutrons and electrons are split off into all directions.
the E from the equation is from the near force bond being broken. Is this not correct?! are the protons and electrons actully turned into energy, never to exist again? NO JUST BONDING WEAK/STRONG FORCE NOT THE BIG PARTS LIKE PROTRONS AND NEWTRON VERY SMALL CHANGE IN TOTAL MASS C SQUARED IS A VERY BIG CHANGE
is electrical energy somehow turned into matter - ie photons?! cause if I put a meter on both sides of a light bulb, the same amount of current that is going in, comes out the other side - no electrons are lost NOT EXACTLY THE SAME NO WORK FOR FREE SOME AS LIGHT AND SOME AS HEAT THE ELECTRON COUNT IS THE SAME BUT ENERGY OF EACH IS LESS[VOLTAGE DROPS SOME]
so where do the photons come from?! MADE BY CHANGE IN ORBIT [SHELL LEVELS] OF ELECTRON ENERGY DROP. HEAT WILL DO IT WITH HOT METAL GLOWING BUT GETS LESS AS IT COOLS TILL DARK.
the more we talk about this the more bizzare it becomes!
thats the part I never understood cause I learn that in an atomic bomb the subatomic near force 'bonds' are broken and that is the energy that is release
AND the protons and neutrons and electrons stream off as radioactive rays and particles
but the subatomic particles themselves are never destroyed.
also in a fusion reaction the particles form helium atoms - again the 'mass' is not converted into energy.
but that is what E=Mc2 sounds like - like the protons and neutrons are converted into energy.
I wonder if anyone really knows the answer to this. Going backwards it would take a hugh amount of energy to create one proton, and I believe it would also take a hugh amount of energy to create on photon.
hey now there is a possible answer. If we know the mass of one photon, and we know how many photons are given off by a light bulb running on one amp, then from E=Mc2 we should be able to calculate how many photons are created by one watt of electrical energy in one second - and test it to see if that is indeed how much light is generated.
there is more stuff in a atom than the big parts protrons/newtrons/electrons, like glueons that carry weak/strong force and when split in to smaller parts less glueons are needed to hold together smaller atoms as in atom bomb one atom of U235 becomes two smaller diffrent atoms plus free newtrons and excess energy.total change in mass is very small way less than 00.1% of u235's mass is converted to energy and none of the big stuff, imagion if it did convert protrons the bang would be way bigger. like 1000 or more times in light bulb some energy becomes heat infrared radation and some light so you need to account for losses in system too.
Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: a photon cant be a particle for two reasons:
1. no matter can be acellerated to light speed - the energy required is infinite
2. I can hook a light bulb to a generator and turn the handle all day long and the atoms in the filiment are excited and change charge states, and emit photons all day long. If a photon has mass, which part of the atom in the tungston filiment is it coming from?!
wouldnt the light bulb run out of photons eventaully?
? Ken, If light is directed threw an appature it will bend. This appears to be a property associated with a particle. Can you explain why this happens?
there was a famous experiment done where light was shone onto a panel that had 2 slits in it. When the light output was adjusted to allow only one photon to be emitted, and only one of the slits was open.. everything was fine. the photon made a dot on the screen just past the panel. as soon as both slits were opened, there were multiple bands of light... in this case the photon was acting as a wave, but even if it was just that simple, it would have only created 2 bands of light... for it to create multiple bands, with a single photon.. well, that's called an interference pattern. but if there was just one photon, then what did it interfere with?
itself.. from parallel realities.
I'm very tired, so that wasn't the best description.. there were others that are even more shocking, ones that make you realize that reality is far weirder than most people ever imagine... experiments that make you wonder what the f*** is going on.
some awesome points made in this thread.. just wanted to add some stuff after reading it all tonight.
(I've been collecting ALL the missing solar neutrinos in a mason jar since 1988)
