quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: HELLO! McFly! Are you in there?! what I do or dont do has no effect on the fact that drugs ruin peoples lives. Attacking me personally or discussing my strengths and weaknesses has no bearing on the conversation.

Thanks for the McFly reference. THAT was really mature.

I don't really care that you chose not to answer my question. None of my business, anyway.

However... My question was not meant as an attack. I'm merely trying to point out that there are a number of substances that are quite legal, could be considered addictive, and possibly more dangerous than the weed.
I still maintain that alcohol is much more dangerous to society.
Cigarettes? How many people die of emphysema or heart disease. Not to mention the cancer victims.
Coffee? Jolt Cola? Mountain Dew? Dress it up however you want. Caffeine is a drug, and it is at least moderately addictive. Ever quit drinking coffee? Have a headache for four days?

Cliff,
This will be my last post in this thread.

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Raydar - aka Steve

88 black Formula
88 Duke coupe
88 "wadded up" Formula (parts car)

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-31-2001).]

I agree with Cliff regarding the search engines and that they will lower the rating based on the words.

Got to thinking...and as somebody said, "Thinking is a bad thing"...late lastnight about certain words that Cliff had mentioned, dr*gs and p*rn.

In my opinion, they may or may not have an effect as to the search engine's listing.

If we think about these words, they are quite common in the human vocabulary and for descriptions of both good as well as bad websites.

For instance, sites to assist people that might embed the code as keywords, titles and/or descritpions such as:

Dr*g abuses, dr*g dependency, dr*g addiction, dr*g interaction, pharmacitical dr*gs cause and effect relationships

or

p*rn addiction, p*rn*gr*phy, p*rn spam mail, p*rn counciling, free corn , coping with child p*rn and kiddie p*rn abuse, etc.

Now for the common words pot, weed, joint, etc.

That would leave the following sites out of search engine dealing in: clay pot and pottery, how to pot a plant, pot roast, noxious weed, weed control, weed poison, joint problems, CV joint, joint replacement, joint ventures, etc.

Just some food for thought. Now I certainly feel Cliff has left us a lot of leeway with what we post. I guess the difference is in our responsibility, knowing where to draw the line and what should be deemed as "appropriate". As Cliff stated "I've stated from the beginning that I leave it up to the users' responsibility and good judgement what to post.".

And I feel, we as members sometimes loose our ability to see the forest beyond the trees and not take this statement as well as the agreement we were asked to read and agree upon when we registered https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/fiero/Ultimate.cgi?action=agree into consideration as well.

I typically read over most agreements posted on the internet, as they are typically "Boiler Plate" agreements. However, sometimes it is good to go review the rules once and awhile at certain sites, like I did this one, that one should consider, if not keep in mind.

Hense, the reason why I edited my original posts on the other thread that had been started based on a comment I had made within this thread. I felt this was the only fair method, as yes, I had goofed by assisting to add fuel to the fire and started another fire off to the side that was not part of the registration agreement.

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Geeze louise guys - I know what O/T means!

grasp the deeper concept here - this forum is primarily focused on FIEROs

therefore - if postings and threads on the side topics or loosely related parts of the forum are interfering with our primary interests, the secondary things should be eliminated.

Nobody is saying we should ditch all the O/T subjects or threads - only the ones that are trashing our ratings in the search engines and blocking us from the nanny-watch programs.

If some 17 year old kid cant get to this web site on a computer in his school library - because of subjects in the O/T section - then that is a problem we need to fix.

If someone is looking to buy a Fiero and Yahoo or Google or any other search engine lists us on the 4th or 5th page, when we use to be on the first page, then we are loosing out on new readers and contributors big time.

Geesh!

I can't believe I'm even responding to this kind of topic.

I have never done drugs and never will. My aunt got her kids taken away from her because she was smoking Pot. I have no respect for those who think there's nothing wrong with it. Flame me if you want, but I'll stand by that.

Also, about the Schizophrenia thing, the FACT is that we don't know WHAT causes it. I got this off a website: There is no known single cause of schizophrenia. Many diseases, such as heart disease, result from an interplay of genetic, behavioral, and other factors; and this may be the case for schizophrenia as well. Scientists do not yet understand all of the factors necessary to produce schizophrenia, but all the tools of modern biomedical research are being used to search for genes, critical moments in brain development, and other factors that may lead to the illness.

Sure, it could be genetic. Sure, it could be a chemical balance. But it also could be a result from drugs. I did study Schizophrenia in school, so I'm not pulling this out of thin air either.

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Jaime
84SE red
AOL IM: Jaygee79
Jaygee79's Web Page

[This message has been edited by Jaygee79 (edited 06-01-2001).]

Jay: Yeah,b ut some people think the moon landing was a hoax, and the pyramids were built by aliens.

well thats just stupid - everyone knows the pyramids were built by ONE alien (c:

"Sure, it could be genetic. Sure, it could be a chemical balance. But it also could be a result from drugs. I did study Schizophrenia in school, so I'm not pulling this out of thin air either."

[/B][/QUOTE]

Jaygee79

If we follow your way of thinking then it could be global warming, electric magnetic fields, the water we drink, the list goes on and on......

I personally like evidence (scientific) that something causes harm to us instead of just a guess or just because we just don't like it and want to blame all the worlds’ problems on a particular substance or product. Remember breast implants, cell phone radiation, these products where targeted and later the scientific evidence disproved all the harmful claims against the products. You see where I'm going. I’m not pushing the use of drugs, I actually tough it would be cool to find a fellow pothead in this group. I'm not here to convert anyone and for those concerned of teenagers here, if you raised them right and didn't lie too much they should be able to handle this post. I think it is very balanced (more people against pot) I also think that the Internet should not be your babysitter, be responsible of your own kids, I don't have any and don't plan to (some of you will be glad to read that)

I find it funny that some of you where personally offended when I made a personal reference to your situation hinting at "instead attacking me personally" well if you look at your post that is all you have done.

As for benefits of pot use, let me tell you a thru story:

There was a kid that was always depress and alone, that kid turned into a teenager and was suicidal and depress and alone, he joined the service and did his job, made everyone proud but he was depress, suicidal, alone and now playing Russian rulet, the guy got out of the Marines and held low end jobs, one day when he was 29 he had experienced many attempts to kill himself and broke down and went to the doctor( head doctor) and was put on many drugs paxil, xantac, wellbiutrin (I can't spell) and others. They all did something but he was still depress he was diagnosed with clinical depression. Some one suggested to him that he should try weed as it had helped someone in the past so the guy tried it and kept doing it for 2 years, to date this guy now is a network engineer, well respected in his field and has nothing but hopes for his future, actually he is getting married soon.

That guy is me, I've never wanted to tell people this story and now you all are the first people to know this of me. I can see where I'm going to receive a lot of negative replies on this because you all can't ever see how something like pot can do any good. Once again the post was just to find fellow pothead's in the forum and not discuss my personal life and tribulations. If this post helps anyone in my former situation it would be great but by no means scientific evidence. I Love my life now and the tought of ending my life haven't been with me for 2 years. It is surprising to me how hard it is to actually share this with others but I think it will be a good thing.

Thank you all for you interest in the post.

Forgot to mention I don't use anything other than pot for depression now. It works for me and I think it doesn't have as many side effects. Once again thank you for your consideration.

[This message has been edited by funguy (edited 06-01-2001).]

Well I must confess...
I am a heavy drug user and take them almost every day...
A couple advils a day for this pinched nerve in my back...
I think i have a problem...

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To Be Old And Wise, You First Must Be Young And Stupid.-----------------
It's not a waste of time... If you are wasted at the time

Yeah, I was (am) clinically depressed. I thought mass amounts of methamphetamine might work.. Thats doesn't work.. Now the 'zak.. thats an amazing invention

Funguy, I have to commend you for letting that out. Pot can help people, as well and hurt them.

Here is a take on the drug thing from a young (19) person: All though school we are told that drugs are bad, ALL illegal drugs. Now, when the inevitable happens (you smoke pot), you realize that pot is not a bad thing, and you start to wonder... They lied to me about pot, hmm, what else could they be lying to me about? It leads to distrust in authority and harder drug use. Just a thought from a yung'in

That is not my PERSONAL story however. Cranking up a bowl every now and then is NOT a terrible thing to do, imo. But just like any other drug, you have to keep it in check.

Just my 2 cents.

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-Shiner-
'84 Sport Coupe
'87 GT
'86 SE 2M6 (parts car)

Alcholol is also refered to as "Liquid Courage" and/or "Courage in a bottle".

Is alcohol good or bad for you? In moderation it may not hurt; in large quantities your liver starts to swim and then drowns.

Drugs, are they good or bad for you? Prescriptions drugs are supposed to help, yet they have their adverse side effects due to the chemicals that the human body can not tolerate.

Many of us, including Ken and I, have seen the devestating effects that drug use has over time on family, friends and associates. It boils down to a matter of time.

Many users today, started innocently enough with drinking. Then smoking a little grass (and that would be the extent they would tell themselves) to get that extra buzz and uphoric feeling. However, sooner or later ones body is going to build up a tolerance to the affects they are experiencing to the effect they were trying to reach, to which psycological effects will kick in to get that "Uphoric" feeling back. Hence the individual will look for another method to get that feeling and may fall on harder drugs.

If you have ever been to AA, Al-Anon, etc., group meetings, you could literally tape only one persons experience and hear everyone's story. For instance, many of them start out with alcohol (typically in their teenage years). Soon to achieve another "recreational" buzz, they turn to some other drug as alcohol isn't cutting it for them...lets say in this case p*t. When that feeling can no longer be achieved, it only escalates into something more devestating write down to becoming "Drug Dependent Alcoholics".

I got to see this with my brothers and many of my friends.

They start with one thing and gradually graduate to harder and harder things. Many of these people smart as whips, but at some point they eventually will, do and did go backwards where they can't even hold a job. Its just a matter of time.

Again, as previously stated, I or any others can not tell anyone what to do, no more then what you could tell someone else on this forum what to do.

If your trying to find fellow p*theads, I feel you are already trying to surround yourself with people with similar interests as yours so as to justify your use.

Just remeber this, "you are who you hang out with and they are a reflection of you" as well as "you can't soar like an eagle if your hanging with a bunch of turkeys".

Just beware there are consequences to every thing as well as every action over time.

Hey apples, bacon, steak, pork, milk, jelly beans right down to zuchinnie are not good for us either, but hey, we have to eat! But that stuff is killing us as well...

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funguy - sorry to hear of your depression - now i wish your last post was your first post on this thread - you would of received a whole different set of responses from everyone.

I know people who are clinically depressed - it sounds silly to anyone who doesnt understand it - "you feel sad all the time? Well hey! Snap out of it! Cheer up! You've got nothing to feel sad about - lots of people have it worse than you!"

that doesnt work, does it? thats the problem - it seems like a small simple thing - like its no big deal - but its like a dark cloud hanging over everything you do.

You can take a clinically depressed person to Disney World, where anyone else would have the time of their life, and that person will end up sitting in a corner somewhere crying.

I hope this doesnt come out wrong, depression is a form of mental illness - our feelings are suppose to be a function of our lives, what is going on around us, what is happening to us, what we are doing and achieving.

Just like when you put you hand in hot water and you sense heat, and cold water makes you sense cold - if you put you hand in cold water and you sense heat, something is wrong with your nervious system.

and if life is going well for you, and you have people around you that love and care for you, and you feel sad all the time - your feelings are not a function of what is going on in your life. Mental illness is a scary phrase for anyone to attach to themself. People that are depressed dont want to have a mental illness.

that is what makes depression such a devistating problem - people that have it want to find another cause for their sad feelings, maybe its their spouses fault, maybe something is missing in their life, maybe someone is deliberately messing their life up on them.

It is a terrible strain on personal relationships - like when an alcoholic blames his drinking on everyone else " if you wouldnt nag me so much, I wouldnt need to drink...." without realizing it, people who are depressed can put this on their friends and loved ones " if you would do XYZ more then i wouldnt feel sad all the time" ok, and they do XYZ more and you still feel sad all the time, so then its something else they need to do more, or stop doing, and they feel like a failure cause they cant make you happy, when in reality, if you are clinically depressed, NOBODY can make you happy.

You have made the big first step, acknowledging that you are clinically depressed - the hard part is holding on to the understanding of that. When you get up at 10am on saturday morning and you dont feel like doing anything, thats when you have to tell yourself - its not me, its the depression - and force yourself to get up and do something positive, even though you dont FEEL like it - really dont feel like it - dont WANT to!

When something small happens, your girlfriend cancels a date, or you scratch your car, and your feelings spiral out of control to the point where you feel like killing yourself, thats where you have to tell yourself, it not her fault, the car is not that bad, its the depression.

If you belong to a health care group or have any kinda insurance through work you should be able to go to your doctor and get real help with this. If not go to another doctor. There are drugs like Prozac that help alot of people, and there are group sessions and meetings you can go to, support groups, that will help you EVEN MORE than medication ever can.

I dont want this to sound omminous, I dont think depression can be cured, but it is something you can learn to live with, you can learn to understand what is going on with your feelings, then you can anticipate how you will feel, so you dont feel sad all the time.

Its great that you have pulled yourself up a little, even if it is with pott, make that a first step and take it to a professional. If you have already tried that and gotten nowhere, go to a different one. There is good help out there.

What you are doing now cannot be a long term fix for you. You are gonna box youself in, and its gonna collapse on you sooner or later if you keep trying to medicate your self out of this.

Your employer will not hold it against you if you are clinically depressed - in fact if your boss knows about it he can be a big help - and there is nothing wrong with taking medication perscribed by a doctor. But if you ever have to pee in a cup, they are not gonna believe anything you say after you flunk the test - then its all excuses and you are out the door. get the doctor in on your entire situation, get your medication into his hands, and then if something happens and life blows up on you, you have a previous record with your medical staff that documents you are not just a screwball drug user, you are under the continuing care of a medical professional.

I almost hate to use the analogy, but the real problem with people who are schitzophrenic is NOT that they hear voices and see stuff that isnt there - the problem is that they cant tell that stuff is not real - they arent sure.

in a slightly similar way, people who are depressed cant tell they are sad for no reason - it still feels like 'sad' - it seems like there should be a reason, something they did wrong, something someone else did to them, something that is missing.

when you get to the point where you can say, this sad feeling im having is a result of my mental illness, im gonna accept that and work around it, you will be 90% there.

I disagree that group help can be much better than prozak. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The 'zak is a genius invention. I probably wouldn't be here without it.

FYI

Lets not make this a depression post now. I have already dealt with my depression and deal with it every day. I don't take zak and others anymore, I live a good life, I look forward to every sunrise and sunset, I'm finally at peace with my self and others and it is working for me. I can't lie and say that I'm cured, but I can tell you that in my case, pot was a great help and it has been that way for the past 2 years or so, I know my condition and have lived it all my life, I know that it is mental illness and that was actually great to know when I was finally told by my doctor, by the way here in California a law was past for medical use of marijuana and I think that is a good thing, I actually stopped taking other prescription drugs that had many and many side effects and started taking pot daily. You might think that I'm now addicted or dependant and that is ok to think, I rater take pot than the other alternatives, that is my choice.

420

quote Originally posted by funguy: If we follow your way of thinking then it could be global warming, electric magnetic fields, the water we drink, the list goes on and on......

Um, that wasn't my thinking. If you read my post I said that I got it off a website.

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Jaime
84SE red
AOL IM: Jaygee79
Jaygee79's Web Page

Funguy, since I don't know you personally from "Adam", even without your alias, it's no skin off my nose what you do with your life and/or your body.

Isn't going to hurt me and/or my (and possibly nobody elses) feelings (on this forum) in the least.

So toke up all you want. Its your life, your choice and if you feel it makes you feel that much better and as a result of the recreational use gets you out of your depression "now", then more power to you.

Eventually, you will be back in the pit of depression (as you stated you have only been usin approximately the past 2 years) and will potentially need to go to something stronger to keep you happy.

Just my additional 2 cents, but hey, you won't be receiving a bill anytime soon from me or anyone else, because so far everybody's advise has been free.

I'm not trying to be an @$$ to you or anything, so please take it with a grain of salt like Ken asked me to do once in one of my threads.

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quote Originally posted by JSocha: So toke up all you want. Its your life, your choice and if you feel it makes you feel that much better and as a result of the recreational use gets you out of your depression "now", then more power to you.

Thank you for respecting "my" choice

He will end up in the hole of depression and need to take something stronger? You don't know anything ABOUT drugs do you? Granted, most people DO fall back into depression (I have learned I will be taking this stuff for a long, long time). You don't turn to harder drugs, you start over trying to make yourself better again.

ARRRGHHH!

97 posts on this stinkin thead (98 now) and it's still going on!

Some people smoke, some people don't. The ones that don't shouldn't preach to the ones that do. Everyone has their vices. Deal with your own and leave everyone else to their own.

This post was started by someone wanting to find others with the same recreational activity. Nobody was looking for a debate on the evils of bud.

Now what did I do with that roach?...

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88GT 5sp, in desperate need of an LT1
http://www.geocities.com/fiero88gt1/

funguy - if you're happy with your life the way it is now, then im not gonna jump on your case - but I think you do have to at least concede you are not your typical weedeater - your experiences with the stuff are based on your extreem circumstances.

for everyone else, the comment I made about depressed people finding help from meeting with groups of other people with the same problem - prozak and other medications dont cure depression, they take the edge off it and make life much easier

but if you are led to believe that taking the medication will cure the problem then you are in for a disaster. Some people that are depressed are in such a deep emotional hole they cannot bring themselves to do anything. There have been cases where people have started taking Prozak, and have gotten enough energy and resourcefullness from it, to muster up their will enough to commit suicide, and have gone through with it.

Prozak alone is not a cure - it will pull a person out of that hole far enough so they can start talking about their depression, they can start to hear other peoples experiences with it, hear from others that are overcoming it, and learn how to deal with it from an intellectual perspective, instead of always reacting to the emotional pain of it.

depression is like an emotional pain. Its like a person with a broken leg, with the bone sticking out sideways. You cant grab the leg and pull it back into place so it can heal. First you give the patient morphine to stop the pain, then you work on the broken leg. The morphine doesnt fix the broken leg, and if all you do is give the patient morphine, the leg will never heal.

Its also important for your family and friends to understand that the medication is not a cure, cause you will still have emotional problems from time to time, and if they thought the meds were suppose to fix everything, they will start thinking your out of control emotions are 'just you!'

The group sessions are expensive, one on one counseling is expensive. If your doc is just handing you the pills and increasing your dosage when you are still in a slump, then you are not getting what you need.

It also helps tremendously if your family and close friend understand your depression, so that, when you are having a difficult time and are lost to your emotions, they will respond to the illness, instead of reacting to your emotional outbursts.

then, to use the W Disney W example again, when you are sitting in a corner by yourself crying, they dont lash out at you, "what the H#LL did I spend $4000 to bring you here for? we could of sat at home if all you are gonna do is mope around and cry" - but instead will recognize the overwhelmed emotions as a part of the illness and respond appropriately.

the medication helps, but it is understanding and knowledge that turns your life around.

Yo funguy, 420 dude

funguy, I'm working days right now, drive through Mora, Minnesota at 55mph (it's a 40mph zone) I'd like to stop you and chat.
Officer "Fierohoho"

I fail to see the link from pot to harder drugs. It does NOT automatically follow that you're going to try acid, mushrooms, coke, or anything else if you enjoy marijuana. I smoked some dope in college, but never tried anything harder. I didn't want to act insane or see things that weren't really there...I just wanted to relax and be mellow with my friends.

I'm sick and tired of seeing so many tax dollars spent on the "war on drugs," when it clearly isn't working. I think GWB's budget calls for $19 BILLION to be spent fighting drugs next year. That's a lot of roads that could be built, kids that could be educated, debt that could be eliminated, or money that could be given back to YOU. And your neighbor's 17-year-old son will still be getting baked in his basement either way.

Clinton was just as bad...more people were locked up for drug-related offenses during Clinton's first term than under any previous administration. Didn't inhale...what a hypocrite.

Pot smoking isn't smart, but I think it's relatively harmless. As long as there's sunshine, rain and seeds, people are going to grow and smoke pot...let's legalize and tax it and let it make America some money instead of costing us so much.

"I fail to see the link from pot to harder drugs"

-because its not WHAT you are doing its WHY you are doing it.

if you decide to start using illegal stuff when you are in your normal clear headed state of mind, what are you gonna decide to do when you are stoned and not thinking clearly anymore?

people think, i can try it and if I dont like it I can always stop. It doesnt work that way. there are some doors in life, once you walk through them, they close behind you

and lock.

here's a guy who started smoking because he had some problems. 2 years later those problems are history, proof that smoking top<- can help some people. If you dont smoke it you can't understand it. Yes there are people who will move on to harder stuff, thats a given..But to say everyone who smokes top will, thats bulls#it. Lets just say I'm not a newbee to smoking but the thought of tring something harder has never crossed my mind. funguy, check out 97.7 htz fm out of St.catherines, Ontario at 4:20.

What, is Fierohoho a cop or something? if so, he is pathetic. Your going to stop someone to talk to them because they say they smoke "top"? Uh huh. If your not a cop, and I misunderstood, sorry, but if you are, and that was your intention, you are pathetic... Later

quote Originally posted by fierohoho: funguy, I'm working days right now, drive through Mora, Minnesota at 55mph (it's a 40mph zone) I'd like to stop you and chat. Officer "Fierodonut

yep, almost sounded like a threat

edited to insert a funny

[This message has been edited by buds (edited 06-04-2001).]

?? Hey guys, be nice to Fierohoho!! He is a cop, but he's extremely nice and *not* pathetic!!

if he is then why that post, that sounded like a threat.
why can't we just end the stupid war and give peace a chance to work as many states
have tried but the feds won't respect the will of the people to local control of D laws

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Question wonder and be wierd

I'm sorry, but if that WAS a threat, he is pathetic. Hey buddy, why don't you go catch a murderer or something? I'm pretty sure you can't do anything to someone if they say they do it over the internet. As much as I hate marijuana, at least the police aren't stupid about it this side of the border.

OK, A word to the wise. ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!! Nothing anyone says in here is going to change anyones mind. Those that do WILL. Those that don't WON'T. Let's quit wasting bandwidth. If I were Cliff I'd have deleted this, and the **** posts. But I'm not Cliff.
But I give him credit for showing such restraint. He's not the dictator that other forums have to put up with. Let's get over this and get back to the usually friendly forum that it was. Flame away if you want.
But you'll be wasting more bandwidth because I won't be coming back to this pitifull excuse for a post.

Cripes, take a joke willya.
Thanks for the "backup" Lisa.
I saw your thread on getting dumped for the weed, good choice for you.
My real take on the weed is this:
If you smoke it every day to get high what difference is there between that and having several beers a day to get high. With the beer they can lable you as an alcoholic. I would guess the same criteria for alcoholism applies for weed smokers. These people need our help not our s**t. When they realize this lets all be there to help. nuffsaid

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'84 SE 2.5l
'85 Coupe 2.5l now getting a 3800
'86 SE 2.5l