I noticed all of his posts have been deleted, and haven't heard from him in a while. I think his posts were here last night, but now I don't see any. What happened?

I just ran a search on him, and it only shows 52 posts. I know he was way over 1,000.

[This message has been edited by fiero56 (edited 02-12-2000).]

I clicked on Monkey's profile and it said he had 1564 posts. He's passed me now and taken second place behind Ogre, I think. If he has been deleting posts, it's because he's a very sensitive guy and may of got his feeling hurt by a few callous comments. We luv ya Monkey!

Hey Monkeyman, I have a friend that spent six years trying to get through to me past the smartass crap I kept feeding him. One of his comments that stuck was "your bad attitude isn't going to change my attitude or actions", and he continued being thoughtfull and giving even though his wages were derision and worse.
Somebody has to be the voice of moderation, when I'm cheering the combatants on to hit lower we need somebody with a little cool to remind us we are all friends here.

fiero56, try doing a search in ALL categories...

Good point Patrick. Guess I was a little shocked that none of his posts were here anymore and just wasn't thinking clearly.

See MMan...everybody still loves you! Just as idle chat...wouldn't it be a very boring world if we were all the same? We got to learn to respect and appreciate the differences we have(within limits of course),not resent them! What is that the French allways say...? Viva La something...duh.

Have I been missing something? Has MonkeyMan been in a verbal fight?

All his posts except the last one in 'mustang oil' are gone.
We gotta learn to stay focussed on reality, dogs have to drink the antifreeze, cats are too smart.

I have heard a few rumors, but nothing confirmed. If what I have heard is true, I am disgusted at the actions some members have taken. Shame on you!!!

What have I missed here?

So if it's not the Monkey man... then who is deleating his post's?

I don not have a clue as to what is going on with M-Man. But if he is gone I certainly will miss his thought and insight very much.

MONKEY... COME BACK PLEASE........WE NEED YOU.

hopefully you are just out of town for the weekend and can not get to a computer. You should be having withdrawl signs by now....

if you do a search for all his posts in the last day, they have been deleted, except for mustang oil one, except it has been edite to say

quote You're welcome! Happy to do it. (BTW--I give up)

i believe this is in response to this post from patrick...

quote Heh,heh... this is getting to be rather funny. M-man comes to William's defence and in doing so, demonstrates the very point that several of us have already made. Our concern is that some dolt will read William's joke about giving antifreeze to dogs and possibly misinterpret it. M-man comes along and states: "He'd never do anything like that for real." M-man, what the heck are you talking about? Nobody, and I mean NOBODY was suggesting for one second that William would put antifreeze in his dog's bowl. You have misinterpreted our posts. The possibility of a post being misinterpreted is what we were raising the alarm about in the first place. Thanks for proving our point

i beleive the bold is what monkey is referring too when he says "your welcome"

i think theres probably more to this, and lately in monkeys posts i kinda noticed there was kind of a consistency of apologizing for offending anyone. i don't know if anyone else noticed this, but it kinda seemed odd. patrick, monkeyman, is there something going on between the two of you?

[This message has been edited by four50four (edited 02-13-2000).]

I've been looking around and I've found lots of Monkey's posts in various topics. They aren't all deleted.

Friends,

I would like to start this post with the fact that I HOPE that nothing is really happening here. I know that Dave is more aware of my feelings than anyone else. He has helped me in ways that he cannot fathom spiritually financially and physically (please refrain from sick comments... I only meant that he has provided me with several parts for my Fiero).

...Well everything that I had been afraid of seems to be coming true. This wonderful community seems to be slipping away. After seeing the other Fiero communities, I have been fearing this but not expecting it. Over the last couple of months the list has seemed to become much less friendly. Lately that movement has been making big strides, the larges of which was taken in the middle of this week.

Lets start with why I feel so strongly about the Forum. I have been a Fiero-list member for about a year and a half. I was one of the first 20 on the Fiero one-list and am a member of the MI Fiero mail list. Although each of those lists provide countless bits of information they lack the one thing that has drawn me to this forum... wonderful people that are allowed and encouraged to speak their hearts and minds.

My intrest in the forum really seemed to increase during that short period when the now infamous Monkeyman was out of work. His posts were often light-harted and seldomly on the topic, but that is EXACTLY what compelled me. His posts almost single-handedly addicted me to this forum.

I really felt accepted and respected for what I am. More importantly I felt that everyone respected one another. This sort of environment is very condusive to amicable bonding and because of this, the forum quicly transformed for me to a Fiero family.

I am lucky enough to live in an area rich in Fiero's. Everyone that I have been blessed enough to meet in person has been wonderful and I am a better person for having met them. Beyond our cars, many of us really seem to share much more.

I can assure each and every one of you that I am truely sorry for my contributions that could have caused certain individuals to become upset. I also regret that my comments have caused Dave additional problems with members. I have never met another that is or was as excited about Fiero's and Fiero people and Fiero communities as Mr. Dave Gray. He truly has earned my respect and friendship. I can assure you that our friendship will persist regardless of our relationship to the forum. It would be a great loss for those that would never get to meet the great Monkey Man if he were to leave the Forum.

I thank you all for reading this post. It has been spoken from the heart. Dave if you're still out there reading this.... I want you to know that you ARE appreciated. And you STILL have my vote in '04, not for President... but for Forum MVP (Most Valuable Poster)

William T. Thorn, III

Monkeyman, posterboy for the nonlinear challenged. Sure, got my vote.

I sent an email to Dave after reading this thread.. I didn't expect the reply I got.

I wasn't following the recent thread that started all this, so I was surprised to see the "What happened to Monkeyman???" topic come up. I've been talking with Dave since shortly after he joined the forum, and I think he's pretty cool. Never met him in person, or any other forum member for that matter, but I like to consider him a friend.
He told me about some forum members who don't consider him a friend. Some of which who actually went out of their way to tell him (and in one case, show him..) how much they didn't like him.

People are always going to have differences of opinion. That's what makes people unique. eg. I like fastback GTs, techno music and sci-fi movies. Someone might hate the fastbacks, listen to country and only like action movies or comedies. Why should they tell me I'm stupid for liking those things, or something like that? (just an example, no one told me techno is stupid.. wait. actually a lot of my friends do.. heh) Point is, if there's something you don't like, whether it be a certain Fiero body style, or a certain forum member's quirky sense of humor.. ignore it. don't bash it.

I agree with William about the sense of community in the forum. I've been a member about a year now, and this really is a great forum. I do get a sense of community here, and the feeling that everyone here is a friend. I'd hate to see that destroyed over a few comments, which I didn't even read cause they were deleted as I wasn't watching the thread, but that's besides the point..

Not quite as eloquent as William, but I guess I'm just not good at stuff like that.
(plus it's 4am)

The forum just wouldn't be the same without Monkeyman.

Well said Darklord! I check the forum several times a day, and would consider it a great loss if we lost Monkey's humor. I think that this thread is going to generate a lot of positive postings. I hope that Monkey can see his benifit to the forum. I feel a sense of loss, kind of like when the Ogre was off the forum for a while 6 months ago. I hope that Cliff has some pull with Monkey.

Ross

I have been missing something here. I don't read all the threads and I certainly haven't read the thread you're reffering to. I'll talk to Monkey and asked what happened. If there was some bashing going on, I certainly want to know.

Cliff, I don't think there was any intentional Monkey bashing going on and certainly not from Patrick like was suggested by 454. Rather, I believe he was taking a few differences of opinion stated by some of us, maybe even from me, personally. Any fool could see he's a very sensitive person.

Over the years, I've learned to grow a little thicker skin than most maybe. Sometimes you just have to let things slide. Some of us (including me) can be a bit grumpy at times. I know that I'm not very tactful at times and realize others may also be that way too.

Maybe we all should do a little soul searching and resolve to be a little more considerate to all our fellow Forum members. After all, this is a support group of sorts and we are all bond together by our common bond of Fiero addiction. This is still the best Fiero info site in the world, let's keep it that way. Nuff lecturing.

I sure hope Monkey isn't upset with me for any reason because I've always considered him my friend. He sent me my bat tailight mods free of charge and made me laugh at times when I was feeling sad. I'm going to email him and tell him we want him back. If anyone feels the same as I do, please email him too. For anyone else here that I accidently pissed off or upset for any reason, I'm also sorry.

I agree with everyone here, the forum has been a great place! Cliff, I'm guessign you can tell how many times each of us hit the forum... if so, I have to be up there, even though my post's aren't. The reason, I visit so much, besides fiero's, is to see what's up ith everyone. I enjoy reading everyones post, including the Monkey man! In fact, i think he's pretty cool... at time's he has that warped sense of humor that's so funny.

In my life, I have stepped on many toes with my distored perspective on life, ect... but here everyone seems to take each other for who they are, I like that. And as for myself, if I see a topic that I know I really dont want to get hung up on (like the jesus vs evolution/big bang thing) I totally avoid it.

I have enjoyed the forum for what it is, and for how it has brought a lot of people from around the world together! Actually, I have enjoyed this more than anyother thing on the web.... well, actually Bianca's Latex Lair is pretty cool... maybe the forum is a close second!

Brian Hooper
Greensboro, NC

From what I've heard, all problems were made known off the forum(through private e-mail which I appreciate). There is/was no thread that showed the problems he was having with certain individuals.
I too noticed Dave was apologizing much more often than normal. But it never "clicked" until a day or so ago.
I have not been very impressed with the way some members have been treating others(on and off the forum), espescially when it involves as nice a man as Dave.
If you leave, Monkey, you will be missed.

[This message has been edited by fiero56 (edited 02-13-2000).]

Ok, I guess I was wrong about one thing. Someone from the Forum is apparently intentionally bashing Monkeyman via email. I must say I was rather shocked at what he told me happened. There was no mistake that it was deliberate, uncalled for, and extremely childish. Monkey is a true gentleman, so he wouldn't tell me who was responsible for this nonsense. I notice people tend to pick on others that they know won't fight back. I just hope that whoever did it will realize their major error in judgement and offer an apology soon. This is very unfortunate and also it is total bullshit!

[This message has been edited by batboy (edited 02-14-2000).]

Batboy; didn't hear what happened but whatever it was doesn't sound like it was very nice. But as to your last statement, you got my vote again. This is America, being "civilized" adults should mean we can live together even with differences. Scientists have evidence that we are all 99.9% THE SAME in physical makeup(at least that is what the pres. said!) One of our founding fathers said,"Sir I may disagree with what you say, but will defend to the death, your right to say it!" We may not all be perfect typists, know all the proper grammer, be as articulate as some, but we all have a right to our perspective, an opnion, and the right to express it. C'mon Monkeyman, don't remove yourself from all of us cause one or two have me-itis worse than the rest! This is America! (These are my own thoughts and opinions and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of our sponsers, who do not endorse condone, nor condem ANYTHING, they merely observe.)Please forgive errors in spelling, grammar, typing, and/or basic thought processes THX

What goes around comes around, my life as an ******* has comfirmed this.
I can't imagine giving personal crap to people via email, I tend to smack people during arguments, but hardtiming a person you can't see, can't reach and haven't looked in the eye?
Therapy IS mandatory in Alaska, thank you, but while I have a hard time with authority nobody on this forum can MAKE me read their posts. And getting angry enough to WRITE personal mean stuff and send it, that must be frustrating enough to cause self mutilation.
When Spyder posted that hot pink picture I thought it was very inappropriate, but instead of posting back I got up, walked outside to the Fiero, and pictured them on the hood. Much more appropriate. (Spyder, who held the camera?)

I asked Dave what was going on and I must say that I too was suprised with his answer. Apparantly he received some insulting email from members of this forum (he didn't want to name any names) and he decided he doesn't need this. I respect the fact tremendously that he chose to refrain from starting flame-wars for the sole and single purpose to protect the forum.

On the other hand I also feel tremendously disappointed. I created this forum over a year ago - not for commercial purposes but to create a place where people could discuss their hobby in a civilised manner. Anyone who has been a member of some of the 'lists' out there know what I'm talking about. But to be honest, the forum became much popular than I had ever expected. This was a good thing because the result was that no question was left unanswered - but I also started to get worried how to keep the atmosphere friendly with so many people. You can never expect so many people to agree on everything, and you can't expect everybody to become friends. But I was hoping people would agree to disagree and respect each others thoughts.

As it turned out, not everybody can. And that saddens me. Maybe this off-topic section on the forum wasn't such a good idea. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to allow everyone to speak out. Maybe this forum should've stayed the way it was - Fiero only. Less chance of flame-wars, less chance of people getting insulted. Boring as hell, but informative.

I thought the pic posted by Spyder was slightly inappropriate as well, but I didn't care.. Not because I don't like stuff like that, I just don't think it belongs on a car forum. Also why I don't get calenders of cars with "bikini babes" on them.. Maybe I'm just weird.. heh..

The quote used by Sage is the one I had in mind when I posted my comments last night(this morning actually)

I don't think I have any enemies on here, I've tried to be as helpful and courteous as possible, but if there's anything I've done to tick anyone off, let me know.. besides being annoying about posting my website every time I made a slight update last year that is.. I haven't forgot that yet.. won't do that again.

Since my name has been bandied about here, I should probably add my two cents worth...

454, there is nothing "going on" between M-man and myself. If there was, I would have made it clear here at the forum, and not resorted to the apparent bullsh*t that's going on with M-man receiving nasty private emails. I certainly don't condone that kind of nonsense.

batboy, thanks for the vote of confidence. I appreciate the fact that a long time forum member acknowledges that I have some integrity.

Having gotten that out of the way, I do have a few things to say about Dave (M-man). Anyone who posts 1564 times in just over 3 months is bound to tread on a few toes. I have to be honest and state that I began to find it rather tiring a while back when practically EVERY thread had several posts by Dave, many of which had nothing to do with the original topic. The running for president bit wore thin pretty fast for me. However, as much as I didn't particularly enjoy a lot of Dave's posts during that time, it seems that there are other forum members who couldn't get enough. So more power to him.

I think where Dave made a huge, no a HUGE mistake was jumping into the "God" thread with both feet and stating some very strong personal views on religion. As much as I enjoy stirring the pot on occasion, even I realize that politics and religion are two topics that are best avoided if one doesn't want to attract unnecessary abuse. The fact that Dave is reported to be a "sensitive" guy only reinforces my belief that he should have kept his opinions to himself if he couldn't handle the aftermath. This in NO way condones the supposed treatment he has received, but it shouldn't have been totally unexpected. I use the word "supposed" because I, along with most forum members, have no idea what has really transpired.

Ironically, today I've noticed that a forum member who I've had words with in the past has taken it upon himself to post at least a couple of "jokes" aimed at me. I don't know if he's trying to be funny or if he's trying to get my goat. Anyway, with my outspoken approach at this forum and others that I frequent, I've learned to expect this kinda stuff. When it occurs, all I have to do to laugh it off is to remind myself of who the source is.

One last word, slightly off topic, but...

Sage, this is NOT America!!! This is an international forum. Smarten up or I may have to send you some nasty emails...

sorry patrick, i just kinda got that feeling, and that was before i knew about the emails, which is something that i know you would not do. after re-reading my post, it sounds like i was kind of accusing you, which i wasn't, just making an observation. once again, sorry patrick, no hard feelings?

je m'apple FORMULA des la voici est ici. Le lycee une les AMERICANAS???????ANGLAIS????

ummmmmmm, I'm not to good at french lol.

translation...... my name is formula _____ is here. The shcool one the americanas???
amricans??? I AM GOOD,YEAH.

I was one of the people who couldn't get enough of his jokes. I think I fueled the fire for the MONKEYMAN in 2004 too.

454, no problem. I was just setting the record straight. It takes a lot more than what you stated to get me ticked off. As a fellow Canadian, you should know that we're pretty easy going people in general.

Yea, I guess you're right, this is not America, and I am not schooled in international diplomacy. I just like to think of the whole ball of sand as more and more of a global community and believe that human rights, common courtesy and concern for the well being of all of us should be more of an issue than "who is right" Have always adheared to the belief that what is most important is, WHAT is right rather than, WHO is right. I don't remember "having words" with anyone at anytime on this forum, just have always said what I thought and tried to remain true to my beliefs. If one takes everything very personal, then he is going to constantly be at odds with someone or something. My wife has been diabetic since she was 13 and I know the trials and tribulations on a personal level that the condition brings with it. It is hard enough to carry on when there is nothing wrong with your body. I know we ALL have our crosses to carry, I just have never thought that because a person is taller, or bigger, or better educated, or prettier, or whatever, that it made them any better than anyone else. It has always amazed me how in an arguement, the parties seem to think that whoever talks the fastest, or yells the loudest, wins. Might has never made right, and it never will. So I will probably never smarten up by some standards, but I will refrain from saying what I think here. No animosity here at all. Oh, I like getting mail, but like Thumpers mother said,"If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!" To wrap up on somewhat of a lighter note, if you have to explain your jokes...they aren't funny.

Hmmm.... that's really.... interesting.

Sage, the statement you quoted from Thumper's mother, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!" is the identical quote that another forum member sent to me in a private email.

The dilemma is, what is "nice"? And in reference to another part of your post, what is "right"? These are subjective terms. We all have different beliefs. No one should be afraid of speaking their mind (within reason) as long as they're prepared for the fallout. By "fallout", I'm referring to opposing views, not intimidation or threats. I think I made it clear in an earlier post that certain kinds of flack are totally uncalled for.

Occasionally it's not WHAT somebody says that upsets me, it's HOW they say it. Nothing irritates me more than particular individuals who have an inflated opinion of themselves demonstrating that fact with their sheer unabashed arrogance. I've always had a problem with that, whether it was with teachers in school, bosses at work, relatives, people in the service industry, or people on the ‘net. I'm extremely loyal to anyone I recognize to be honourable, but cross the line and I'm downright miserable to be around. And yes, I've unfortunately been rather cantankerous with a couple of people at this forum. However, to bring this back around to the original subject of this thread, M-man is definitely not a fella I perceive to have an inflated opinion of himself. Although some might argue that his religious views indicate otherwise, I would never consider Dave to be arrogant. For that reason alone, I'm disappointed to hear about the apparent nonsense that has taken place.

Hmmmm.... I must agree that sometimes it seems as though Monkey posts just for the sake of posting something, but he also posts a lot of good info as well. I have no idea who sent the insulting emails, but I have to agree that the religous topic may have set him off. I thought the discussion was very well controlled, but I guess M-Man sort of "set me off" on the topic. I have absolutely no problem with anyone voicing their opinions on belief in God, but Monkey said it in a way that made him sound like he was a better person because of his beliefs. In fact, he even went as far as to say that non-believers will go to hell and he will go to heaven. THAT is something that should have been avoided. And if you check the thread, I disagreed with him in the next reply, but I never said anything personal. I should also say that I'm not holding anything against him. Monkey and I have previously traded a few emails back and forth reguarding some problems he was having with a virus and I was more than happy to help him out it, so I don't think there's any personal feuds outstanding between us. I think we're making too big of a deal about this. If Monkey chooses to not post, that's his descision. If he's having personal problems with people on the board, I'm sure he's more than capable of dealing with them on his own.

Patrick; Thanks for the response. I don't know who sent you the email. I know it wasn't me, and I'm sure I am not the only one here that has ever seen Bambi, or been a Disney fan.
You are obviously an intelligent, thinking, well spoken, self confident, and I believe, compassionate human being. Again what you say is correct. Nice and right are relative terms,(as is beauty, anybody within veiwing range want to date a "beautiful" Ubangi woman?)
To me, what is "nice" is treating the other guy with the same respect you expect in return, and not indicating he is an idiot because he doesn't think the same way you do. What is right, always reveals itself in time, it is a matter of aligning yourself with it if/when you recognize it.
I don't like arrogance either, and I think, like yourself, go on the defensive when confronted with it.
I know everyone here is not a Beatle fan, but the song "Imagine" was one of my favorites for the message it tried to convey. Idealistic?...maybe. Yea I know, they killed Lennon too.
This world is NOT a utopia, nor will it likely ever be, but I just think we could all do our small part toward that end.
Like I said before, there is no hostility from me toward anyone here, you can call that a "safe copout" or whatever if you like, but I also believe you have to stand for something or you fall for anything!
Let's talk Fiero's, or anyhting for that matter, but keep in mind it is just that...talk. The world is not going to change no matter what you or I or anybody else SAYS. They are only words, tools enabling us to all work together, or weapons to keep us apart. I just don't see any reason to put someone else down for what they believe, or how they live, as long as they are not trying to force it on anyone else.
I don't think Cliff made a mistake by creating this section, I just think we all need to respect it for what it is, OFF TOPIC, and each other, for what we are, all members of the human race.
We all make mistakes, except for my friend Doug, he says he has never made a mistake, just paid an awful lot for some bad information, oh, he did make one mistake he will admit to, he thought he made a mistake once...but he was wrong. Peace?

[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 02-16-2000).]

Peace...

Sage, a few days ago I was showing a friend of mine the "God" thread and she saw your reference to Namastae. She's into spirituality and her answering machine outgoing message ends with that word. She wanted me to tell you that many people who phone her and hear her message misunderstand what it is that they've heard. They usually end their message to her with, "And you have a nice day too."

Patrick; did she point out that it is spelled wrong? I don't know the proper spelling, but I know that isn't it. I could find out, but don't see the point...it means the same thing no matter how you spell it. I got the exact same response from a guy in a supposedly "Eastern Spiritual" band at a recording studio once. They finished thier session, and as they were leaving I said to the leader, "namastae" he looked at me real wierd, cocked his head and said, "Yea, you have a nice day too!" Oh well! Just have to go with,"It's the thought that counts?"

I have always taken Monkey as the class clown of this forum. I hope he's not gone for good because the best I can remember classes got pretty boring when there wasn't a class clown.

If someone here did start a private war with Monkey they should be ashamed. They should also try to make things right again.