No flames intended. I was simply stating that my "opinion" on the subject is, to me, much more than just opinion. As far as I'm concerned, it's fact. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am. I just happen to think that you are incorrect. I have no intentions of creating enemies here. I have many friends who aren't believers. I think it's too bad, but they are still my friends. I still believe that my "opinion" is the only right one, but that doesn't mean that we can't be friends or be civil. I still and always will say, "If you don't believe, you will."
Feb 10th, 2000
Posts: 1223 From: Edinburg,TX,USA Registered: Oct 1999
There is no end to this dilema. Everyone will go on saying what they believe until this server's harddrives are full. All through this string people have repeated themselves over and over. They have even repeated that they are not trying to win anybody over to their way of thinking, but that is exactly what they are trying to do. Don't try to cover it up. Deep down in the rescesses of your heart, you were thinking, "Maybe someone will read this and finally see the truth."
Whether you believe in the Bible or God or not, I'm sure we can all agree to respect each other. And with respect to everybody, there is no absolute. With respect to me, there is. If you believe in the Bible, read Philippians 2:12, which says:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Everyone is entitled and responsible for their own personal beliefs. Christians are called to be good witnesses. (not good debaters or judges) We are only called to share the Gospel, not to cram it down other people's throats.
Man has a free will. That is clearly demonstrated by this lengthy string of posts. People CHOOSE to believe whatever makes the most sense to them. And that would make even more sense, because if I were God (And thank God I'm not or we'd all be in trouble), I would not want a whole bunch of little robots as my creation. It is much more worthwhile when someone CHOOSES to love you. CHOOSES is the key word. Everyone has a CHOICE. When your physical body dies, you'll more than likely find out if you made the right CHOICE or not.
Even if we think everyone else is wrong. We need to respect their beliefs. Somewhere along the path, we all came across forks. He chose left, I chose right. Time and time again not everyone went the same direction. It's no wonder we aren't looking at the same trees. It only seems logical.
Sooner or later... The truth will be known.
Posts: 4667 From: St. Cloud, MN Registered: Apr 99
I started this thread because I was in pain. I lost another friend to suicide and and am pretty darned P O ed at God. He was the seventh. I know about free will, I know God didn't kill them, but, but something. If I could understand Him He wouldn't be God. I don't know whether to glad He doesn't seem to take much of a hand in anybody else's life either, or if that is a sad thing. Thanks to all of you I have more perspective to look from. I'm still not happy with God, He may be bigger than me but I can't respect the way things are. God's in His heaven and all's hell with the world.
Just wanted to pipe in here one more time to add another nichols worth. The thing that has always bothered me about evolution is the fact that the species that we are supposed to have evolved from, still exist. If we evolved from lower forms, then doesn't it stand to reason that the form left behind would no longer be? It just seems that as complex as the whole scheme of things is, it couldn't be just happenchance. I have had Bible study with the J. Witness, the Pentacost, Baptist, and the Mormans. I have read a good portion of the Bible as it exists today firsthand. I have delved into the Eastern philosophies, Greek mythology, native american beliefs, and too many others to list. The one underlying common denominator seems to be the belief that there is something "other" than ourselves that is at the root of all that we have. I believe in God, I believe that Jesus Christ is His son. I believe that he came and did what the Bible says he did. I also believe that what He tried to teach us for the most part is beyond what most of us can comprehend fully. You will not find Him in church as much as you will find Him in your heart if you let your ego surrender enough. The fact that all the different religions and beliefs exist proves that noone as of yet has hit on the end all and be all answer to this age old question. We have had wars and still have them over what each of us believes. How many of the people who go to church on a regular basis and profess to be saved and know beyond the shadow of a doubt that they are bound for eternal glory, would lay down their lives for somebody else? This is what Jesus did. This is what every soldier that has ever died on the battle ground did. The difference is that most of the soldiers, were not neccessarily as willing, nor as aware of what was actually happening. God is as real as you allow Him to be for you. Each of the different "sects" that I have studied with can open the Bible to specific passages and point out proof positive as to why their own beliefs are the right ones. Just the fact that there are different versions of the Bible today, says to my mind, that none of them can be the final word. I feel that in order to get the true message dictated by God, one would have to learn the language the original text was written in and procure the original documents, and spend a lifetime studying them. None of us are in a position to do that. You just have to decide what works for you, what you are comfortable with and go with it. I think respecting the Ten Commandments and observing the Golden Rule, would serve us all well. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". If you really think about that, it is the only rule we should need. Like I said before, do whatever you want as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else doing whatever they want. Simple words, but properly understood, a code to live by.
[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 02-10-2000).]
Posts: 2683 From: Onalaska, WI, USA Registered: Dec 1999
Phaeton: We have all lost people that we are close to at one time or another. It is much harder to accept and deal with when it was by thier own hand. A person that takes his own life, has become so engrossed in thier own ego, that they can't see past the "no hope" sign on the path of life. I am not judging anybody, that is not for any of us to do, suicide just leaves you with more work to do and no vehicle to do it in. We are all on the path to enlightenment, some know it, some don't...yet. Don't get into the "I should have done something" rut. You can try to point people in the direction you think they ought to go, but like children, you can't take a single step FOR them. Ultimately, we will all be held accountable for what we do, what we have done and mostly, for what we know. Grieve for your friend, but more importantly, pray for his soul. "Live like you are going to die tomorrow, learn like you are going to live forever." Take a lesson from your friends, taking yourself out is not a solution, it resolves nothing and leaves many loose ends, someone else has to clear up. I am sorry for the loss you are feeling.
Feb 11th, 2000
Posts: 2440 From: so. san francisco, ca Registered: Mar 99
I just want to say this I am a Christian and all that the BIBLE says is true.
Remember this, there is a differance in Christian and religion. When you find out the differance then and only then will you understand.
May I quote? J. Edgar Hoover " There is respect for human dignity only where Christ and the Bible are a way of life.
Walter F. Burke, general manager of Project Mercury and Gemini, "I have found nothing in science or space exploration to compel me to throw away my Bible or reject my Savioour, Jesus Christ, in whom I trust.
Lambert Dolphin Jr., research physicist at Stanford University, "I wasn't even a true scientist until I met Jesus Christ. I couldn't be for I was cut off from reallity. Life with God is the only reality.
Thank you William and Monkeyman.
PS I will not post to this again!!!
Posts: 1437 From: Interior Alaska Registered: Dec 1999
Yeah, the problem's me, must be the reason religion makes us so touchy, it is so personal no room is left for an objective look. No agenda, I take great comfort knowing a diverse group as this can have so many true experiences and feelings, and yet all still be unique. My funk is gone, I will never understand because I can't understand, but I'm still ticked off about the way things are run.