Originally posted by Rick 88: From what I could see,one cylinder from each bank crosses under and ties into the opposite side on this system.
If that's the case, then they are most likely as described above. 123 tied together, and 456 tied together. This makes the pulses come consecutively one after the other at 120 degrees, but creates the situation of really needing to move both exhaust tips together (think 458 Italia and Vette), otherwise you have a staggered sound as one tailpipe emits 3 consecutive putts, and then the other side three. Might sound kinda cool actually.
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12:24 AM
Zac88GT Member
Posts: 1026 From: Victoria BC Registered: Nov 2004
I think the closest you could get to the 180 degree sound for a 60* V6 would be to group the cylinders with long tube headers like you would with a straight 6. 1,2,3 into one collector, and 4,5,6 into the other. This would separate the pulses by 120 degrees instead of 240 per exhaust manifold. I'm surprised that no one has done this with a 60 degree V6, as this would be as close as it gets with something that would be "easy" to fab up.
A straight 6 does group 123 and 456 but it also has a different firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4, at least the good sounding ones do. So they still alternate collectors between pulses. If you had consecutive firing in one collector and then the next, each collector would have 120* between the first two pulses, 120* between the second and third, and then 480* of nothing. It would produce inconsistent scavenging and probably sound like garbage too.
[This message has been edited by Zac88GT (edited 11-17-2012).]
A straight 6 does group 123 and 456 but it also has a different firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4, at least the good sounding ones do. So they still alternate collectors between pulses. If you had consecutive firing in one collector and then the next, each collector would have 120* between the first two pulses, 120* between the second and third, and then 480* of nothing. It would produce inconsistent scavenging and probably sound like garbage too.
Scavenging would still be strong enough on the 480* lag with each collector's tailpipe wyed. Basically, 3-2-1 with proper separation at the transitions. The sound hides in the primaries pulses to each collector before they combine. If you were to run true duals into two mufflers, then you would be correct. The car Rick is referring to has a crossover I believe.
I hope that made sense. I can see it in my mind, but it's hard to type it out.
*Edited for clarity*
[This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 11-17-2012).]
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11:18 AM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41218 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Very cool sound and I am really impressed on how you made them removable. Hopefully you plan on making another set as I would be interested in purchasing them.
Very cool sound and I am really impressed on how you made them removable. Hopefully you plan on making another set as I would be interested in purchasing them.
Glad you like it! I assume you are running a small block. What trans in what year?
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08:18 PM
Rick 88 Member
Posts: 3914 From: El Paso, TX. Registered: Aug 2001
If that's the case, then they are most likely as described above. 123 tied together, and 456 tied together. This makes the pulses come consecutively one after the other at 120 degrees, but creates the situation of really needing to move both exhaust tips together (think 458 Italia and Vette), otherwise you have a staggered sound as one tailpipe emits 3 consecutive putts, and then the other side three. Might sound kinda cool actually.
As I recall other than the two individual pipes crossing to the opposite side the rest of the system tied into a Y pipe like factory and ran thru a small one in two out muffler. I still can't find the pictures. Got to keep looking....... Does that sound like it would create this sound?
As I recall other than the two individual pipes crossing to the opposite side the rest of the system tied into a Y pipe like factory and ran thru a small one in two out muffler. I still can't find the pictures. Got to keep looking....... Does that sound like it would create this sound?
Honestly, only experimentation will bring us an answer. I thought that system used a Y-pipe. That would keep it scavenging if they are doing the 123 and 456 crossover. The 1-in-2-out muffler would make it easy on the budget minded who already have that system installed. Would be a fun project.
Honestly, only experimentation will bring us an answer. I thought that system used a Y-pipe. That would keep it scavenging if they are doing the 123 and 456 crossover. The 1-in-2-out muffler would make it easy on the budget minded who already have that system installed. Would be a fun project.
A guy on 60degreeV6.com has done this in his Monte Carlo... it is a 2-2-2 into a 3-1 system.
Well, got the new fuel hose in and took her for a spin with a friend of mine. Have some retuning to do since installing the 180 headers. I'm rich on the secondaries at WOT, but if I feather a bit she pulls really nice! I do feel more low end and mid-range grunt too. Nice for part throttle drivability.
What's really strange (but I knew to expect it) is that from the driver's seat, the sound IS definitely smoother and less bassy, but the exhaust note that one hears outside of the car as it revs or drives away isn't heard by the driver or passenger nearly to the same extent.
I drove a Ferrari F355 Berlinetta back in '95, and the same applied there too. You really have to be on the receiving end, outside the car, and especially to the side or behind it to get the full whammy. But BOY does it sound good going down the road!
Once I get the tune where I like it I'll post some drive-bys pulling to 6-6.5k
[This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 11-18-2012).]
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06:46 PM
Raydar Member
Posts: 41218 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
Who wants to see a drive by video?? HELL I DO!! That thing sounds amazing and as I understand you are new to fabrication and did this with a flux core welder.... DAYUM!! I have a commercial Tig unit and have been welding most of my life and my flux core welds are less than stellar LOL... Nice job and you need to get those all shiney'd up and jet hot coated...peace
Pete
------------------ "May the grins begin when you turn the key and hear the engine roar over your shoulder" ......Gall57 (slightly modified LOL)
Thanks much Pete! I want to coat them as soon as I can. Video should be up tomorrow. I have a friend to man the camera, so it should be quite a fun day!
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11:24 PM
nitroheadz28 Member
Posts: 4774 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered: Mar 2010
Get 'er done son!! Hopefully it will be a close up shot of the flyby in a nice setting and with the car accellerating from a stop going thru the gears and then ripping past the camera at around 5500+ RPM.....but I'm not picky or anything LOL...peace
Get 'er done son!! Hopefully it will be a close up shot of the flyby in a nice setting and with the car accellerating from a stop going thru the gears and then ripping past the camera at around 5500+ RPM.....but I'm not picky or anything LOL...peace
Pete
Haha! I'll see what I can do!
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11:34 PM
Pete Matos Member
Posts: 2291 From: Port St. Lucie, Florida Registered: Jan 2010
Well, here is a link to some fly-bys. The roads around where I live are twisty and their overall condition isn't very good, so no crazy stuff here. Just wanted to hear what it sounds like from the outside, and whether or not the overall sound is good, or needs some tweaking with muffler selection, and tailpipe diameter.
Sounds great!! The work payed off for sure, were you short shifting it? If it were built to rev to 7k itd be wicked!
For sure it would! I think the higher the revs, the better the sound. I was short shifting, except for the second pull (coming toward the camera) in second (hit 6200 on the tach). My clutch slips from time to time, and I need to adjust the rev limiter in the distributor again. The combo I ran before this one would pull through 7k with ease, but I wanted to tame it down for better mileage, and a turbo system. Until I get the clutch changed, the turbos will have to wait. THEN I can blow up a Getrag...maybe
[This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 01-07-2013).]
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11:05 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
The 180-degree headers on a V8 are to even out the odd firing sequence, to simulate an even-fire engine. The 60-degree V6 is already an even-fire engine, so no funky exhaust routing is necessary. The closest you're going to get with a V6 is with equal-length headers.
Wow. That sounds great DaveC. What a difference a (not-so-simple) change in plumbing makes to the sound. Maybe I overlooked it, but I didn't see any video of the car being revved while stationary. I'd love to hear the sound a little closer up.
As for the sound from inside the car, I know just exactly what you're talking about. Totally different beast whether you're inside or outside watching it go by. Too bad you can't somehow pipe that music in.
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12:42 PM
nitroheadz28 Member
Posts: 4774 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered: Mar 2010
For sure it would! I think the higher the revs, the better the sound. I was short shifting, except for the second pull (coming toward the camera) in second (hit 6200 on the tach). My clutch slips from time to time, and I need to adjust the rev limiter in the distributor again. The combo I ran before this one would pull through 7k with ease, but I wanted to tame it down for better mileage, and a turbo system. Until I get the clutch changed, the turbos will have to wait. THEN I can blow up a Getrag...maybe
Heh this is going to be a hell of a build! I'll be keeping my eyes out for progress
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01:33 PM
Erik Member
Posts: 5628 From: Des Moines, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
Wow. That sounds great DaveC. What a difference a (not-so-simple) change in plumbing makes to the sound. Maybe I overlooked it, but I didn't see any video of the car being revved while stationary. I'd love to hear the sound a little closer up.
As for the sound from inside the car, I know just exactly what you're talking about. Totally different beast whether you're inside or outside watching it go by. Too bad you can't somehow pipe that music in.
Hi Blooz, the revving video is the second link in the first post in the thread. I wish I could somehow pipe it in without becoming asphyxiated!
Peace
