It's been a long road, but it's coming together nicely. The car is an '86 SE with an Archie kit (thanks Archie!) and 331 small block. I purchased the Archie kit about 8 years ago, and ran tight tuck headers up until now. I always thought that the v8 sound was a little "heavy", and have always liked the smooth sound of the GT40, due to the use of 180 degree headers. They sound more "exotic", if you will, and add a bit of lightness to the aura.
It's a work in progress (what V8 Fiero isn't?), but I like the way she sounds now. In the video below, the stumble at first was me forgetting to turn the fuel pump back on. After that she runs smooth.
Raydar, Thanks! I'm waiting on some fuel hose to arrive, then it's driveable.
ITALGT, Thank you for that. I worked really hard to get it, lol. I can get pics uploaded tomorrow.
The name of the game was "Use what you have". I took the tight tuck headers (1 5/8"), cut them in sections, then used them as the starting point. Ordered Schoenfeld j-bends from Summit Racing (best price), and then the 2.5" pipes I already had on the car with two Walker high-flow cats, 2 Borla Universal Turbo mufflers, and the tips are SuperTrapps with no discs.
[This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 11-15-2012).]
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06:01 PM
Phirewire Member
Posts: 1544 From: Hamburg, PA Registered: May 2012
These are before cleaning them up for coating. Still have ALOT of work to do on the asthetics. Wiring harness, remount the engine, paint, etc.... It's never done! I'm not a great welder by any means, especially with a flux-core welder on small diameter pipe. Wish I had known someone who could've TIG welded them for me for a good price.
Because the car is a street driven DD, I used 40" primaries and short collectors. There is roughly 27 feet of primary pipe alone!
I know that fieroguru had intended to build a set for one of his cars, but I think he ended up going a different route. Hey guru, if you're out there, what did you do with the headers you had built??
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08:26 PM
Yarmouth Fiero Member
Posts: 530 From: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: May 2012
Great job on the exhaust system DaveC. That is a very sweet sounding engine. We'll be putting a SBC in our 355 and I'd love to replicate what you've achieved. My boys have been blasting that video clip over and over.
Great job on the exhaust system DaveC. That is a very sweet sounding engine. We'll be putting a SBC in our 355 and I'd love to replicate what you've achieved. My boys have been blasting that video clip over and over.
Thank you so much for that kind comment. That made my day
A 355 replica with 180 headers sounds sweet! Do you have a time frame for getting an engine in?
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09:35 PM
nosrac Member
Posts: 3520 From: Euless, TX, US Registered: Jan 2005
I know that fieroguru had intended to build a set for one of his cars, but I think he ended up going a different route. Hey guru, if you're out there, what did you do with the headers you had built??
Sad to say, they sat on the shelf for 3 years then were scrapped when I moved in June of this year.
Your setup sounds good! Great job on making it happen!
Thanks fieroguru! I know how it is having to choose what goes with, and what goes away. I look forward to your threads, because I never quite know what to expect next! Keep it on the shiny side
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09:59 PM
Synthesis Member
Posts: 12207 From: Jordan, MN Registered: Feb 2002
I never considered a V8 swap because the exhaust note just did not sound right coming out of a Fiero. I did a 3.4 PR swap just so I could keep that great 60 degree V6 Fiero engine sound and pick up some power. Now, you have given me a reason to want a V8 swap. You car has that exotic sound that I really like. You should consider building, and selling you system!!
I never considered a V8 swap because the exhaust note just did not sound right coming out of a Fiero. I did a 3.4 PR swap just so I could keep that great 60 degree V6 Fiero engine sound and pick up some power. Now, you have given me a reason to want a V8 swap. You car has that exotic sound that I really like. You should consider building, and selling you system!!
Rick, I agree with you all the way. Although the sound didn't quite put me off of building a V8 Fiero, I was never thrilled about the heavy American burble in what I had always figured as a little, fun, tossable car that just needed some extra kick, but also needed to retain that light and airy sound. I too love the sound of the 60 degree V6, but after turbocharging my 3.2, I needed more power, and being a small block fan from way back, it just seemed the natural choice for me.
I'm pleased that you like the sound I only wish that it were that easy to fab these up. I built them in the car, so as to negate any possibility of clearance issues. Without a lift, crawling under the car multiple times every hour just, well....hurts! Ha ha.
The only way I would build a jig to produce these was if there was a real interest. They would be 304 stainless, with proper slip couplings and collectors, but tuned in length for each application. They would also be professionally TIG welded.
So soon after finishing these, it just hurts to think about it.
[This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 11-16-2012).]
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11:31 PM
Nov 16th, 2012
nitroheadz28 Member
Posts: 4774 From: Brooklyn, NY Registered: Mar 2010
Have you had a chance to spin it up to 5-6K RPM yet? That 'banshee wail' sound is unmistakable (and IMO, sexy as hell).
I did spin up to 5 grand once, but I want to get the fuel hoses fixed before spinning it to the max (6500-7000). The banshee was definitely trying to get out though.
That's the first non-Northstar V8 swap I've heard that I like. How long will it take to change your spark plugs now?
Glad you like the sound skuzzbomer. Believe it or not, it's still easy to change plugs. I can have 'em all out in 5-10 min, depending on how fast I feel like moving.
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10:19 AM
stickboy Member
Posts: 179 From: Lebanon, PA, USA Registered: Feb 2011
For me, everything just fine luckily- the water reached the beginning of my street and thats all. For those in the immediate area that were a bit lower, things are pretty bad right now. Many people are just getting power and heat back. Thanks for asking!
Definitely get a video of it running up to 6k when shes road ready!
Thanks stickboy and TheRealShadowX (dig your notchie, BTW)!
quote
Originally posted by nitroheadz28:
For me, everything just fine luckily- the water reached the beginning of my street and thats all. For those in the immediate area that were a bit lower, things are pretty bad right now. Many people are just getting power and heat back. Thanks for asking!
Definitely get a video of it running up to 6k when shes road ready!
Glad to hear you did fine. I feel for your neighbors. Down here we know full well how storms can tear the whole town up, but leave the smallest house just across the street unscathed.
Will do on the video. Can hardly wait to get her out to play!
Wow. That's a very clean symmetrical layout you've come up with. Personally I've only ever seen one other 180* header system on a transverse V8 Fiero, and while I was impressed, the packaging wasn't anywhere near as clean as yours. Congrats.
I have a couple questions for you if you don't mind:
1. How did you weave your clutch slave cylinder through that bundle-o-snakes? You must be using a modern hydraulic throw-out bearing.
2. If the need arose, do you think you will be able to remove the headers from the engine without cutting them? (assuming the engine/transmission/cradle asembly has been removed from the car).
3. Those headers will produce a fair bit of heat under the decklid... do you have any plans to wrap them or ceramic coat them? (assuming you can get them off) If not, you might consider relocating your air filter.
4. How much trunk depth did you lose to the muffler system?
5. I can see the catalytic converter for the rear bank. Did you run the converter for the front bank under the front half of the oil pan?
6. If you ever drop the cradle out, you'll have to promise to post pictures of the system before you put it back in!
Thanks again for sharing.
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01:24 PM
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
Wow. That's a very clean symmetrical layout you've come up with. Personally I've only ever seen one other 180* header system on a transverse V8 Fiero, and while I was impressed, the packaging wasn't anywhere near as clean as yours. Congrats.
I have a couple questions for you if you don't mind:
1. How did you weave your clutch slave cylinder through that bundle-o-snakes? You must be using a modern hydraulic throw-out bearing.
2. If the need arose, do you think you will be able to remove the headers from the engine without cutting them? (assuming the engine/transmission/cradle asembly has been removed from the car).
3. Those headers will produce a fair bit of heat under the decklid... do you have any plans to wrap them or ceramic coat them? (assuming you can get them off) If not, you might consider relocating your air filter.
4. How much trunk depth did you lose to the muffler system?
5. I can see the catalytic converter for the rear bank. Did you run the converter for the front bank under the front half of the oil pan?
6. If you ever drop the cradle out, you'll have to promise to post pictures of the system before you put it back in!
Thanks again for sharing.
Coming from you Blooz, that is high praise. Thank you much!
In answer to your questions:
1) Though the pics do not clearly show it, the clutch slave is on the "outside" of the headers. It can still be removed, or bled easily. I may build a heat sheild for it, but it has 3/4" or a bit more clearance.
2) Yes I can remove the headers without cutting them. When I designed them, I wanted to be able to do just that. I also wanted to be able to remove the transaxle for a clutch change as well. Each header is constructed in two sections that join at slip couplings over the trans. Simply unbolt each side, slip them apart and remove. The collectors have bell flanges welded to them for ease of assembly/disassembly (and no leaks).
3) They will either be wrapped, or ceramic coated. Air filter reach will be extended, and a box built around it.
4) Trunk space is useable from the "shelf" on up. I plan to re weld a floor in at the shelf so I can at least throw a duffle and some groceries in!
5) The cat for the "front" bank is under the front half of the oil pan with heat shield facing up, and as much air gap as possible without hitting the pan or anti-roll bar.
6) I promise that when I do... I will
EDIT: I'd also like to add that these were prototype headers that I just decided to end up using. They are by no means a "finished" product, but they serve their intended purpose well. Subsequent copies would be constructed with purpose-built materials.
Best, Dave
[This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 11-17-2012).]
Thanks for answering my questions Dave. For your peace of mind, I've run a SBC with a cat under the oil pan for 16+ years and never had a problem (as others, I'm sure). I initially ran an oil cooler and oil temp gauge to monitor the heat of the oil in the pan, but eventually removed the cooler after I became confident it wasn't needed. I too had some very tight clearances between the cat under the oil pan and the sway bar. Keep up the great work.
Dave, could you build a set of these for the 2.8/3.4? There are more pictures of this system online and in Pennocks. I would be a buyer for a set of these.
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07:35 PM
Rick 88 Member
Posts: 3914 From: El Paso, TX. Registered: Aug 2001
Dave, could you build a set of these for the 2.8/3.4? There are more pictures of this system online and in Pennocks. I would be a buyer for a set of these.
Hi Rick, there is no need (and no such animal) as 180 degree headers for the 60 degree V6. The firing order is already evenly spaced for RLRLRL pulses (with a firing order of 1,2,3,4,5,6)
I have seen that system before, and think it sounds great! I could probably replicate it, but have no 60* V6 to build it up.
I think the closest you could get to the 180 degree sound for a 60* V6 would be to group the cylinders with long tube headers like you would with a straight 6. 1,2,3 into one collector, and 4,5,6 into the other. This would separate the pulses by 120 degrees instead of 240 per exhaust manifold. I'm surprised that no one has done this with a 60 degree V6, as this would be as close as it gets with something that would be "easy" to fab up.
[This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 11-16-2012).]
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09:45 PM
Rick 88 Member
Posts: 3914 From: El Paso, TX. Registered: Aug 2001
I think the closest you could get to the 180 degree sound for a 60* V6 would be to group the cylinders with long tube headers like you would with a straight 6. 1,2,3 into one collector, and 4,5,6 into the other. This would separate the pulses by 120 degrees instead of 240 per exhaust manifold. I'm surprised that no one has done this with a 60 degree V6, as this would be as close as it gets with something that would be "easy" to fab up.
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From what I could see,one cylinder from each bank crosses under and ties into the opposite side on this system. On another computer I have still pictures taken from the top and bottom. If I can find them it may give you an idea of what they did in Taiwan. I have a Mera and this sound would be perfect for my car. Unless of course I could have a V8 that sounds like yours!
Will do my best to get the pics up tomorrow.
