quote Originally posted by AkursedX: I know that's a camaro lower intake so I can see you are probably going to run something similar to my routing. With that being said, what kind of intercooler solution are you guys going with? Or is it a surprise?

I told Dave from the beginning that I wanted something similar to yours, so yeah it should be. We're going a different route with the intercooler. That's one of the things that will have to wait until the reveal though. Both Dave and I are getting a little tired of Scott whoring up this thread. Once everything is said and done we'll put everything out there.

quote Both Dave and I are getting a little tired of Scott whoring up this thread

2 posts ago you said you welcomed it?

This is possibly the weirdest argument thread I have ever been involved with.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: 2 posts ago you said you welcomed it? This is possibly the weirdest argument thread I have ever been involved with.

Welcome to follow it isn't the same thing as dissing the build every chance you get. I'm sure you don't see difference though.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: This is possibly the weirdest argument thread I have ever been involved with.

Ahhhh, maybe that's the problem here... I thought it was a build thread! Come now gents, we don't need arguments, we need pictures of something interesting being created!

quote Originally posted by Carcenomy: Ahhhh, maybe that's the problem here... I thought it was a build thread! Come now gents, we don't need arguments, we need pictures of something interesting being created!

There will be lots of pictures going up this week. Dave has been really busy, even though he's a man down. We all should have plenty of eye candy soon.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: There will be lots of pictures going up this week. Dave has been really busy, even though he's a man down. We all should have plenty of eye candy soon.

Every mechanic shop in a 10 mile radius is dead and the guys are playing cards. I heard this from all the parts delivery drivers. I have more work than I know what to do with and have been working 14 hour days just to keep up with the demand.

Dave

One thing I was thinking today...

If you went with the 6speed for driving ability and gas mileage...

A cam (especially the BIGGEST cam you can get) is going to decrease drivability and decrease gas mileage (Ironically the lower the cruising rpm, the more surge/less MPG).

I am also why you would put a cam in to begin with when you made it clear you do not want a fast or high powered setup.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: One thing I was thinking today... If you went with the 6speed for driving ability and gas mileage... A cam (especially the BIGGEST cam you can get) is going to decrease drivability and decrease gas mileage (Ironically the lower the cruising rpm, the more surge/less MPG). I am also why you would put a cam in to begin with when you made it clear you do not want a fast or high powered setup.

I started out with the 1.9 rockers, but with going turbo, a cam was a better choice overall. Cars with bigger cams, bigger turbos, and AUTOS are getting close to 30 MPG according to their owners. I'm thinking my 6 speed will improve that. Besides, who said we went with the BIGGEST cam possible? We sure didn't.

Now Scott, I really am starting to wonder about your comprehension skills here. Seriously, do you not know the difference between fast and fastest? I never said I don't want to be able to go fast, I said I didn't care if I was the fastest. You should know what this means, as your car is fast, but FieroX's car is still the fastest. If I turn around and use your "logic" against you, answer these questions.


Why DO you keep claiming you're the fastest Daily Driven 3800 when FieroX is still driving his car and still has you beat?

Why did you bother with a turbo when you were stuck in the 11's, a full second behind FieroX?

Why did AkursedX, jncomutt, Justinbart, Silentassassin185, or anyone else bother with turbo 3800's if they weren't looking for 600+ WHP.

Why does anyone do a 3800 swap at all if they aren't going to go turbo?

Who else on here, besides you, thinks our goal of 450 WHP isn't high powered or fast?

Why aren't FieroX, or AkursedX, or jncomutt bagging on my build? Is it because they don't see it your way, or because they're more mature than you?

Why is it that in 2008 FieroX was putting videos of himself up as being the "fastest Fiero on the planet" when he was running 11's and putting out 468 WHP?


You have to see that you're not speaking for anyone else here. You were a naysayer about 3800's with manual transmissions too, but guess what, jncomutt proved you wrong. This is a problem with YOUR comprehension, not our vision. You can't seem to grasp why anyone would want to go fast if they're not trying to go the fastest. Basically, you're saying you and your car were a joke until last year, as you were stuck in the 11's right? Actually I guess you're still a joke until FieroX is behind you in the 1/4 mile list then right? All I'm asking you to do here is to accept that I'm not you and have a broader set of goals that I'm working with. If you can't fine, watch and wait for your "I told you so" moment. Until that does happen though, shut up and focus on your own goal of being the fastest.

**EDIT** Constantly throwing negativity into someone's build thread is pretty low class. You make it to where people don't even want to read them. If you notice I don't go into your threads like this, as a matter of fact very few people on this forum do this.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-22-2011).]

I saw my name, so I guess I'll pop in here and try to answer some questions...and ask a few of my own.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I started out with the 1.9 rockers, but with going turbo, a cam was a better choice overall. Cars with bigger cams, bigger turbos, and AUTOS are getting close to 30 MPG according to their owners. I'm thinking my 6 speed will improve that. Besides, who said we went with the BIGGEST cam possible? We sure didn't.

I just have rockers and wouldn't be surprised to see over 450whp. Stock cam does fine in traffic jams and parking lots, or cruising to and from work obeying traffic laws.
I thought you were going with the stamatta stage 5 turbo cam? Didn't know they made a stage 6.
I don't see the logic going 6peed manual over built auto in the hope of slightly better highway fuel mileage. Might get worse...

quote Now Scott, I really am starting to wonder about your comprehension skills here. Seriously, do you not know the difference between fast and fastest? I never said I don't want to be able to go fast, I said I didn't care if I was the fastest. You should know what this means, as your car is fast, but FieroX's car is still the fastest. If I turn around and use your "logic" against you, answer these questions. Why DO you keep claiming you're the fastest Daily Driven 3800 when FieroX is still driving his car and still has you beat?

Is he? I thought he has spent the last year making $2,000 axles?

quote Why did you bother with a turbo when you were stuck in the 11's, a full second behind FieroX?

What are you asking? What do you mean stuck in the 11's? When he had a small t3 turbo and stock everything, making your whp goal? His daily street setup (less tires) went deep 10's without effort on a summer day. Is your goal to be in the 10's with your setup? Anything less not worthy of a turbo? Oh, this won't see the track because this is purpose built for rush hour traffic.

quote Why did AkursedX, jncomutt, Justinbart, Silentassassin185, or anyone else bother with turbo 3800's if they weren't looking for 600+ WHP. Why does anyone do a 3800 swap at all if they aren't going to go turbo? Who else on here, besides you, thinks our goal of 450 WHP isn't high powered or fast?

I would love 600+whp but I'm limited by cam, turbo, clutch/trans, and the amount of money I want to sink into a POS fiero.
3800 swaps are great upgrades to the 2.8 and duke engines. It really makes the car 10x better to drive. Why anyone would modify a 3800 without bolting a turbo on is beyond me. But its a processes and we all wish we knew then what we know now.
450whp isn't anything specular. You will get used to it soon enough and will be reaching for more. It gets more fun when you have more power than the car can handle and it takes some driving skill to keep the shinny side up. Again, 450whp will do just fine at 5mph bumper to bumper traffic.

quote Why aren't FieroX, or AkursedX, or jncomutt bagging on my build? Is it because they don't see it your way, or because they're more mature than you?

Who is banging on your build? Its just constructive criticism, trying to find out where you are coming from, and the reason you are doing things the way you are. We all learn this way.

quote Why is it that in 2008 FieroX was putting videos of himself up as being the "fastest Fiero on the planet" when he was running 11's and putting out 468 WHP?

In high school auto shop we had a drag Chevelle that ran 12.6 in the 1/4. At the time I thought that was crazy fast, I mean it was loud and had slicks! This sport is getting faster and harder to keep up with the curve. Everyone has an 11 second or faster car now.

quote You have to see that you're not speaking for anyone else here. You were a naysayer about 3800's with manual transmissions too, but guess what, jncomutt proved you wrong. This is a problem with YOUR comprehension, not our vision. You can't seem to grasp why anyone would want to go fast if they're not trying to go the fastest. Basically, you're saying you and your car were a joke until last year, as you were stuck in the 11's right? Actually I guess you're still a joke until FieroX is behind you in the 1/4 mile list then right? All I'm asking you to do here is to accept that I'm not you and have a broader set of goals that I'm working with. If you can't fine, watch and wait for your "I told you so" moment. Until that does happen though, shut up and focus on your own goal of being the fastest.

jncomutt gave up on the manual and went auto so...
What is wrong with 11's? Your goal is 450whp, which will be high, high 11's, probably 12's with the 6spd. Now If you get "stuck" in the 11's with all these fancy parts, that will be a joke.
I like that you have room to grow and I hope you surprise us all with a 600whp dyno chart and LEAVE the car setup that way for every day use. That would be cool(for now, till 800whp is exspected ) (Edit: son of a ***** , I just looked back and saw what clutch you went with. no surprises will be had)

quote **EDIT** Constantly throwing negativity into someone's build thread is pretty low class. You make it to where people don't even want to read them. If you notice I don't go into your threads like this, as a matter of fact very few people on this forum do this.

I guess I don't see the negativity like I explained above. We are all wanting the best for you and the build. With the parts you are installing It would make more since if your goal was 600+whp and had a plan to make a manual usable and keep it together. I've been throwing around idea in my head of doing either the F23 or F40 swap when my current getrag pukes. (the 1mile F40's are just a short drive from me) I'm on my last one and it will be time for a new direction. I wish now I would have started with the auto but I do enjoy driving a manual car. My dream would be a longitudinal trans setup.


------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 06-22-2011).]

***EDIT*** As I typed out this long response, I had an epiphany. I recognize what kind of person you are Scott, and why you're doing this. Sorry to deny you the satisfaction, but you won't be getting any more attention from me. Type whatever you want, you no longer exist. Justin, same to you.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-22-2011).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: One thing I was thinking today... If you went with the 6speed for driving ability and gas mileage... A cam (especially the BIGGEST cam you can get) is going to decrease drivability and decrease gas mileage (Ironically the lower the cruising rpm, the more surge/less MPG). I am also why you would put a cam in to begin with when you made it clear you do not want a fast or high powered setup.

I'm tired of you filling this thread with inaccurate facts. You first stated that I have no experience building manual transmission Fieros, when 80% of my build have been manual transmissions.

As for the camshaft....it is not the biggest camshaft we could get. A lot has changed since the first post of this thread and I don't plan to list the specifics until the car is complete.

A lot of the pics in the future will be edited to block out the turbo setup so I can build this thing without any BS.

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: Do I really only see two bolts for the rear trans mount to the transmission? Seems like a lot of stress on the diff. The stock fiero mount clamps each side with 5 bolts.

I was looking at this and I do plan to remake both transmission brackets, but to keep them in the same spot. I made three sets of mounts for my VR6 before I felt that they met my standards. I'm leaving them on for now while we measure for the axles and build the hot side of the turbo. I like the way the drivetrain sits currently.

As for your question as to why we went with the manual over a fully built automatic. Once again, I state "We would rather walk than daily drive an automatic car". Personally, I can't stand the thought of driving an automatic. The ONLY automatic vehicle in my personal garage (1 out of 5 cars) is our F350 dually. The ONLY reason we chose the automatic was to make hauling our horse around easier on her while the transmission was shifting.

As for the Spec Clutch....I've had zero failures. I break them in to the tee. I believe I read a few years ago that you may have been the one that had major issues with Spec, but as of now I'll stick with them until we have issues. I've used Spec for everything since 2000.
I'm not saying they have perfect clutches, I do see the potential for failure, but I see that with everything.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 06-22-2011).]

Are you guys installing cruise control?

Wow man, there definitely is some hostility in this thread. I understand that you don't like when Dark posts questions about your decisions on how you intend to build this car and he definitely has a way of asking that kinda comes off as being sarcastic. However from what I am reading here he is asking some questions that kinda make sense..... He is just wondering what your reasoning is behind some of the choices you are making for this build. Of course you have the right to build the car however you want to and you are paying for it after all. I can say that while I am kinda new here I have seen both Darkhorizon and Justin's car do some amazing stuff so personally I would at least be willing to hear what they have to say about this stuff. Particularly Justin's car since it is a stick shift car.... Personally I do not understand the need for all the hostility when all of you guys are working on the same basic things and should work together to better the whole process of putting a Turbo 3800 into your car. This is something I hope to do to my car at some point and as far as I can tell is the hot ticket for a go fast fiero. I think that your ideas as per making the car a tad LESS powerful in exchange for a hopefully more reliable car is a good position. Nobody loves a fast car that is broke all the time altho in Dark and justin's case they are looking to go REAL fast and let's face it that just eats parts, especially drag racing...

Dark has been able to run ALMOST as fast as the fastest car here and from what it looks like the car is capable of more and I do not understand why he does not seem to get the respect that acheivement deserves here. That black car of his just plain hauls ass!! There are a lot of guys here that can get on your nerves but at least he tries to contribute ideas and information about what he is doing to go so damn fast. The thing I appreciate too is that he tries to find ways to do it without spending a fortune..... Building a ten second car no matter what it is can be an exercise in frustration with broken parts and other issues and both of these guys have been able to walk that thin line of speed and at least a modicum of reliability. I would think that ANYONE who is building a car with the same basic powerplant would welcome any advice or input on the subject. I realize that the guru knows what he is doing and builds good stuff but just because he does that does not preclude him from learning from others builds and ideas. For example I have been a professional woodworker for many years and have had opportunity to build some extraordinary projects but I was ALWAYS looking to others for ideas and techniques that make for a better product and more beautiful installations. Getting angry and offensive about things only serves to make him look less professional. I really wish all of you turbo 3800 guys would try to stick together and share ideas to make the fiero a real contender on the street and on the track.... peace

Pete

Nosrac, good question. At this point, I don't even remember if the car HAS cruise LOL. It's been so long since I've actually had it in my possession and driven it.

Pete, I started typing a longer response to your questions, but that would feed into something I'm not going to participate in anymore. Thanks for viewing and for your input.

To anyone else, please don't try to keep the subject going. It's dropped. No matter what is typed from certain individuals, there won't be a response from us, well from me anyway as I can't control whether or not Dave responds.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-22-2011).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: To anyone else, please don't try to keep the subject going. It's dropped. No matter what is typed from certain individuals, there won't be a response from us, well from me anyway as I can't control whether or not Dave responds.

Good choice. Just do things how YOU want to do it. You're never going to make everyone happy. I'm still looking forward to see where this swap is going to go.

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: I'm still looking forward to see where this swap is going to go.

It's top secret bro!

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

quote Originally posted by AkursedX: Good choice. Just do things how YOU want to do it. You're never going to make everyone happy. I'm still looking forward to see where this swap is going to go.

Thanks. Nice to get some support from someone in the turbo 3800 club. Been meaning to ask, don't suppose you'd sell me your wheels would ya?

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I spoke with Dave and the car does have cruise, so yes nosrac, it will be functional. Don't know how much I'll use "lazy mode" but it will be there if I decide to.

Dave, if you don't mind pleae post some info on how you'll tackle the crusie control. I was wondering if you use the Fiero unit or go electronic? I get a cramp in my foot on long drivres an need CC really bad. I keep thinking I want to convert to a manual tranny but my foot says otherwise.

quote All I'm asking you to do here is to accept that I'm not you and have a broader set of goals that I'm working with. If you can't fine, watch and wait for your "I told you so" moment. Until that does happen though, shut up and focus on your own goal of being the fastest.

I cant wait for the "i told you so moment"... I mean literally I cant wait... as it will never come.

I am also confused as to where you found that I had a goal to be the "fastest". Lets just say that if I felt there was any competition out there worth beating I would have months ago.

I also have no reason to validate the fact that I have fun with my fiero by beating someone else... It also helps that I have less than $5000 into it.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 06-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Dave, if you don't mind pleae post some info on how you'll tackle the crusie control. I was wondering if you use the Fiero unit or go electronic? I get a cramp in my foot on long drivres an need CC really bad. I keep thinking I want to convert to a manual tranny but my foot says otherwise.

I would install Darth's digital cruise control setup if there is the room for it. The F40 VSS will allow that to be possible. I've installed that setup in all the auto trans swaps I've done and it is much nicer than the vacuum setup the stock Fiero uses.

As for the rear transmission mount. I tossed the mount out and fabricated a new one....the first set of mount brackets were test fit to make sure the engine sat where I wanted and it sat straight with the output shafts at the correct height. I was about 6-8mm off from where I wanted it and I figured Michael wouldn't mind paying me to build another set of mount brackets. Like I said before, the VR6 went through three sets until I got it where I wanted it. I also plan to make a few sets of brackets for my car and another few F40 swaps in the future.
Dave

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www.hausofguru.com

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: I was about 6-8mm off from where I wanted it and I figured Michael wouldn't mind paying me to build another set of mount brackets.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Yes, I am charging $XX,XXX.XX to install the trunk back into the car...and the rest of the swap is being done for free....

You make as many mounts as you need... just make sure that trunk gets done right

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: You make as many mounts as you need... just make sure that trunk gets done right

Oh snap!

Just got done reading through this thread, all I can say is wow! I looked through another build thread that bmwguru worked on and the quality of work and craftmanship looks top notch. This car seems like it is going to be a joy to drive once all is said and done.

Also, I was very intrigued when you mentioned previously here about making header/exhaust systmes for 3800 swaps, any more info on that? Not trying to get off topic here but I am just very curious as I am gathering parts for my 3800 swap.

Keep up the good work and can't wait to see the completed project!

keep up the good work dave..to all the others unless you would like to step up and pay the bill for the swap i suggest you STFU...build what u want and enjoy it M..

quote Originally posted by thismanyfieros: keep up the good work dave..to all the others unless you would like to step up and pay the bill for the swap i suggest you STFU...build what u want and enjoy it M..

How DARE you use logic in this thread sir! I can't believe the nerve....

Update:

decided to send the tank out to be professionally cleaned and treated due to the slop in the botton. The pic only shows a small amount. I could scoop out a small handful.



POR 15 entire engine bay....pics don't show the high shine...







new valve springs and modified valve stem seals

Alas, my original tank was perfect, right up until TEXASGT crushed it with a floor jack. I had to buy one off here, and I guess it wasn't in as good of shape. Any way to tell if it's even the larger tank Dave? It was supposed to be a 87+ if I remember correctly.

The engine bay looks great, will that help with heat or just for looks?

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Alas, my original tank was perfect, right up until TEXASGT crushed it with a floor jack. I had to buy one off here, and I guess it wasn't in as good of shape. Any way to tell if it's even the larger tank Dave? It was supposed to be a 87+ if I remember correctly. The engine bay looks great, will that help with heat or just for looks?

Good Ol TEXASGT...I gotta bring it up as it has been a while "I told ya so".....J/K with ya...good to see the car is moving along....

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Good Ol TEXASGT...I gotta bring it up as it has been a while "I told ya so".....J/K with ya...good to see the car is moving along....

Thanks I appreciate it. I almost don't know how to react to seeing progress. The car's been in various states of dis-repair for about a year and a half now. I'll actually get to drive it soon hopefully.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Thanks I appreciate it. I almost don't know how to react to seeing progress. The car's been in various states of dis-repair for about a year and a half now. I'll actually get to drive it soon hopefully.

Just trying to keep you on top of it......I know the feeling...my 88 GT has been down for many many years and this just might be the year I finish the LS4 into it....I mean I have everything needed by the modivation to get it done....

Must....have...update....need....pictures....

Here are a few pics....

I have the drivetrain installed for the final time. The backordered rear trailing arm kit from the Fiero Store arrived yesterday, so I should be able to get the proper measurements needed for the axles. I also remade the rear transmission mount to appease the masses

The next step is the axle shafts, fabricating the hot side of the turbo and converting the interior from auto to manual.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru:

A lot of nice porting/polish work there.

The polishing was necessarry as I will be having sex with this engine. Once the wife sees the final bill, she won't be a willing participant anymore, so this car better put out

quote Originally posted by mptighe: The polishing was necessarry as I will be having sex with this engine. Once the wife sees the final bill, she won't be a willing participant anymore, so this car better put out

I bet after this being the 3rd shop you are not joking one bit about that...Looks like it is coming along pretty good....If you have it back by this years Ruckus you will have to bring it up.....