quote Originally posted by Letsbuildanexotic: These cars are not Lotus's or U2's, why is everyone so obsessed with weight? Could someone please do this for me, I'd like to see it tested, run your car on the quarter mile, then add 30 pounds and run it again, I'd like to see how much of a performance "loss" 30 pounds would make. I did something like this, I ran my car alone, 16.3 seconds, then I put a 180 lb passenger in it, and ran it again, 16.4. I don't think 30 lbs would make that much a difference.

Generally accepted standard is 100 lbs = 0.1 seconds in 1/4 mile. You probably ran a low 16.3, then a high 16.4. But Fieros aren't really set up for 1/4 mile runs either. They are commuter cars.

quote Originally posted by Letsbuildanexotic: I saw this and thought it might be kinda cool, I prefer to use scissor door (VDC) because I think they have a purpose, you can fully open your door even in congested parking lots. But this would be interesting, I'm guessing someone has done this to a Fiero. Chris

Those aren't gullwing. They are Butterfly doors, technical name: dihedral doors

If someone could figure out how the hinge on the new McLaren Mp4-12c works, maybe that's an option for the Fiero.

Gull-wing doors are more reminescent of the DeLorean DMC-12, and probably not feasible on a Fiero without much modification.

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 08-17-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: Those aren't gullwing. They are Butterfly doors, technical name: dihedral doors If someone could figure out how the hinge on the new McLaren Mp4-12c works, maybe that's an option for the Fiero. Gull-wing doors are more reminescent of the DeLorean DMC-12, and probably not feasible on a Fiero without much modification.

Aren't dihedral doors the doors they have on the Zonda's? Or is that like double axis doors?

BTW, my first post that ever reached 2 pages! Sorry about the butterfly/gullwing mix-up. But I love the way this convo is going, Fiero guys have to be the most creative auto nuts alive, that is why I still have a Fiero Please lets start drawing how one such door would work on a Fiero, their must be some mechanical engineers in this forum?

Chris

[This message has been edited by Letsbuildanexotic (edited 08-18-2011).]

I have been looking into buying one to go on the choptop I am starting the kit come from the GT Factory.

http://www.verticalrides.co...System/Default.aspx#

Let us know how that works for ya NortheastFiero, I think that in order for it to work well, the hinge has to have a c shape, much like on a Vertical Door Kit, so that the door goes up a bit higher to clear your head, but I'm not sure. Looking at the inside of the FIero, there is a bit of dash in the way for the C shaped mounts to clear.

Chris

quote Originally posted by Letsbuildanexotic: Aren't dihedral doors the doors they have on the Zonda's? Or is that like double axis doors? BTW, my first post that ever reached 2 pages! Sorry about the butterfly/gullwing mix-up. But I love the way this convo is going, Fiero guys have to be the most creative auto nuts alive, that is why I still have a Fiero Please lets start drawing how one such door would work on a Fiero, their must be some mechanical engineers in this forum? Chris

No worries, about the mixup, seems generally the public doesn't use the "correct" names. I say so, because they feel "made up" anyhow. I just wanted to make the distinction, because there are very different designs.

quote Originally posted by Rick Morehouse: Hey dobey; do ya know if the window is all the way up as the door begins to open-then the glass rolls down-in prep for the door to close so the glass doesn't squeeze the upper seal lip if it were in the full up position,,,as the door is pulled fully closed?? Hard to tell @ the very instant the guy opens the door. This is the way it looks like it happens to me. It is a cool set up. Rick

The 2002-2005 Thunderbirds do that. In order to get a good seal around around the window, the convertible top has a "seam" that fits over the windows. So when the door opens even a fraction, the windows roll down about 1/8th of an inch. When the doors close, they roll back up. To properly open/close, there is a procedure to "teach" the windows where the top position is - they do "Forget" at times, or when the battery is pulled. The downside is there is more tech involved to operate that system properly.

Has anyone figured out yet how the dihedral McLaren door mechanism works? I'm still having a hard time picturing it.

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: MINI Cooper windows do this as well. They roll down a bit when the door latch is pulled. I have no idea what happens when the car battery is flat. - So far I never had to encounter that problem.

The windows don't roll down. It's not fun trying to close the window and get a seal, from inside the car, when it happens. The Mini I used to have would exhibit a problem sometimes, where it just wouldn't roll down, despite the battery not being dead.

I plan on lambo doors when I widen my Fiero, for reasons of space in parking. Lamborghini use those vertical doors for the reason of the small, italian roads. They were not initially designed to look cool, just so the drivers can get out. Ever seen the roads in italy? NOTHING like ours! They have trouble getting out of Mini 1275 GTs, let alone a wide, low Lamborghini! They were designed so the occupant can get out, similar with the DeLorean. The idea is to get out with minimal space between the car and an object on its side.

When I do lamborghini doors, I have to redesign some body panels, and the door must open out slightly before it opens up. This is for the window seal.

Gull wings are impossible on a "Hard Top" car, such as a Fiero. This is because of the frameless windows. You would have to hang the weight of the door off of the windows, breaking them. However putting Gull Wings on a Porsche 928 is possible...

Butterfly Doors don't tickle my fancy that much, They, to me, look like elephant ears, and are not as efficient in space use. However they do open smoother than lamborghini doors, where they are a diagonal latch instead of a two motion door opening.

For the Lamborghini doors, to make it easier, assisted opening would help. So all you do is push it out a few inches to clear the window seal, and let go. And then it automatically opens the door. That kind of system does not need to be complicated electronic, it could just be a special hinge, with a shock to control speed of the door, and a spring to pull the door up. Then a handle on the lower back of the door to assist in pull down when you get in, then you can grab the inside door handle and pull it the rest of the way closed.

Just some ideas. The rotary disappearing door thing would be very interesting, but the system would be so heavy, and use a lot of space.

[This message has been edited by Racing_Master (edited 09-20-2011).]

quote Originally posted by Racing_Master: I plan on lambo doors when I widen my Fiero, for reasons of space in parking. Lamborghini use those vertical doors for the reason of the small, italian roads. They were not initially designed to look cool, just so the drivers can get out. Ever seen the roads in italy? NOTHING like ours! They have trouble getting out of Mini 1275 GTs, let alone a wide, low Lamborghini! They were designed so the occupant can get out, similar with the DeLorean. The idea is to get out with minimal space between the car and an object on its side. When I do lamborghini doors, I have to redesign some body panels, and the door must open out slightly before it opens up. This is for the window seal. Gull wings are impossible on a "Hard Top" car, such as a Fiero. This is because of the frameless windows. You would have to hang the weight of the door off of the windows, breaking them. However putting Gull Wings on a Porsche 928 is possible... Butterfly Doors don't tickle my fancy that much, They, to me, look like elephant ears, and are not as efficient in space use. However they do open smoother than lamborghini doors, where they are a diagonal latch instead of a two motion door opening. For the Lamborghini doors, to make it easier, assisted opening would help. So all you do is push it out a few inches to clear the window seal, and let go. And then it automatically opens the door. That kind of system does not need to be complicated electronic, it could just be a special hinge, with a shock to control speed of the door, and a spring to pull the door up. Then a handle on the lower back of the door to assist in pull down when you get in, then you can grab the inside door handle and pull it the rest of the way closed. Just some ideas. The rotary disappearing door thing would be very interesting, but the system would be so heavy, and use a lot of space.

Impossible you say, sounds like a challenge!
Chris

quote Originally posted by Letsbuildanexotic: Impossible you say, sounds like a challenge! Chris

Do it and you shall be my hero, and I shall demand to know exactly how you are supporting door weight!

Could someone explain to me how the McLaren dihedral hinge works? I can't find any pictures on the internet of what it looks like. When I saw the car in person, it was the last thing on my mind to look for that. I do have to say that those doors are pretty intuitive.

I'm not a fan of the "2 step" motion required to open aftermarket vertical door hinges. It's not smooth. It's a 2 step process. - Open the door sideways, until you hit a dead stop, then push it upwards. (gas struts remove the weight/effort required). I think it would be better if the door would start to open upwards as you open it outward to clear the window/bodywork. Like an arc, rather than an "L-shaped" (as I envision it) mechanism.

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: ok you guys think some of those ideas are questionable.....ive had this on my mind for a while but the wiring aspect is throwing me off...... have sliding doors like minivans have.... that come out and straight back. now that would be awesome sleek and no worries about people next to you. :-P

http://t3.gstatic.com/image...QR50aQqz-L--x9BeXmvN

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: ok you guys think some of those ideas are questionable.....ive had this on my mind for a while but the wiring aspect is throwing me off...... have sliding doors like minivans have.... that come out and straight back. now that would be awesome sleek and no worries about people next to you. :-P

quote Originally posted by Chelo Fiero: http://t3.gstatic.com/image...QR50aQqz-L--x9BeXmvN

I liked the idea of "Minivan doors", they would look great on a sports car. I just don't know if there is enough clearance for the mechanism. Maybe it can be hidden under a widebody kit.

Also if it's just the front doors, and the top of the doors is glass, they will not look like a Minivan on a car. More like weird "suicide doors".

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: Could someone explain to me how the McLaren dihedral hinge works? I can't find any pictures on the internet of what it looks like. When I saw the car in person, it was the last thing on my mind to look for that. I do have to say that those doors are pretty intuitive. I'm not a fan of the "2 step" motion required to open aftermarket vertical door hinges. It's not smooth. It's a 2 step process. - Open the door sideways, until you hit a dead stop, then push it upwards. (gas struts remove the weight/effort required). I think it would be better if the door would start to open upwards as you open it outward to clear the window/bodywork. Like an arc, rather than an "L-shaped" (as I envision it) mechanism.

The old McLaren setup was a dual-hinge system. The new one is a single hinge. It wouldn't be very difficult to either modify existing vertical door kits, or engineer a completely new hinge that opened in an arc like that.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like VDI make a kit very similar to what you want, for the C6 Vette, at least:

[This message has been edited by dobey (edited 12-26-2011).]

On the doors that drop down into the car... go do some reading up on the BMW Z1. Pretty nifty.

I agree. The VDI kit cones very close