Ok got some pics of the rods , nothing most of you guys haven't seen before. They will probably hit Ebay once they are cleaned up. Anyone know of a descent asking price?







Now im just waiting on my pistons to get here and this sucker is off to the machine shop.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

bump for update! Ryan has agreed to start a thread on his progress on my LS4 install soon. But till then I can live vicariously through Fierophrek! https://www.fiero.nl/forum/icons/icon6.gif

For FYI to see another thread on my LS4 project being mastered by Ryan from Sinster Performance. I think this is going to be very cool to see two projects in tandem for others to compare the similarities and differences. I'm going for the whole DoD, TAPshift, and have even convinced Ryan to attempt to keep some of the DIC (driver information center) and keyless entry and start functionality from the original car (2005 Grand Prix GXP).

Here's the link. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/086013.html

As I said, it's awesome to have to projects being reviewed at the same time. I'm sure Ryan & FieroPhrek will be able to trade notes....and Mustang Beware probably won't be far behind with his project. Would be great to have the cars meet up sometime when all is said and done!! I've also done alot of interior enhancements that I will likely show pics of in between the technical mastery of Ryan on the LS4!

Nice work..... I think the ls4 will be the v8 swap of choice. it only makes sence. light wieght, good performance and plenty of after market support. oh and the big one. no addapter plate required. keep us posted.

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LS1 v8 T-Top 87 GT

http://www.acxunlimited.com/ls1swap.htm

Bump . Well the pistons got pushed back AGAIN ! New arrival date of November 2nd. Well at least it lets me save some cash till they get here.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

Well the pistons got here a day early WOO HOO ! So now i can drop the block off to the machine shop and have them bore it out. Here are some pics enjoy.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

Am i to understand, from your earlier post that the MSD ignition box for the 58x relucter won't work with the ls4 unless you change the timing cover to an ls2 cover and cam senser? I have an 06 ls4, with the 58x relucter and i was hoping to use the MSD 6012 controler. But i really dont want to have to change the timing cover.

quote Originally posted by RONT4.9: Am i to understand, from your earlier post that the MSD ignition box for the 58x relucter won't work with the ls4 unless you change the timing cover to an ls2 cover and cam senser? I have an 06 ls4, with the 58x relucter and i was hoping to use the MSD 6012 controler. But i really dont want to have to change the timing cover.

Unless the 06 LS4 timing cover is the same as the LS2's (in regard to sesor location) it will have to be swapped out. The LS4's cam position sensor is 180* out from the LS2 cover. That wouldn't be a problem if the interuptor on the timing gear was 180* out as well , My LS4 and LS2 share the same timing gear. I'm not sure (i doubt it though) if the timing gear was changed in 06. So if you didn't change the cover to relocate the cam position sensor you would be firing the coils on the wrong cycle.

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Unless the 06 LS4 timing cover is the same as the LS2's (in regard to sesor location) it will have to be swapped out. The LS4's cam position sensor is 180* out from the LS2 cover. That wouldn't be a problem if the interuptor on the timing gear was 180* out as well , My LS4 and LS2 share the same timing gear. I'm not sure (i doubt it though) if the timing gear was changed in 06. So if you didn't change the cover to relocate the cam position sensor you would be firing the coils on the wrong cycle.

Wow, thats a serious issue right there.. thanks for sharing that picture.

the LS4 cover is needed to fit under the 5.3 water transfer manifold. that pickup being 180 out is a problem.

Those GEN3 engines with adapter plates are looking like the easist to work with and use the LS1 PCM... I like the M6 pattern on the LS4 for bolt to bolt the transmission, but so many other things to over come.

For anyone interested in doing an automatic, I have the 05-08 transmission adapted to the GEN3 now with starter solution on the transmission... you can only use the NON-TAP shift transmission however ..








http://www.fastfieros.com serving PFF since 2000

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 04-17-2010).]

Loyde; Tell me more. i have a lq4 engine sitting in the corner of my garage. It would be nice to be able to use it with the ls4 trans. and avoid all the 58x reluctor issues. Ron

quote Originally posted by RONT4.9: Am i to understand, from your earlier post that the MSD ignition box for the 58x relucter won't work with the ls4 unless you change the timing cover to an ls2 cover and cam senser? I have an 06 ls4, with the 58x relucter and i was hoping to use the MSD 6012 controler. But i really dont want to have to change the timing cover.

Pull your oil pan to make sure the wheel is the 58X and just dont assume it is because its an 06. Never know with GM.

MstangsBeware; Thanks, i'll do that. I was assuming (should never do that) that because i have the e67 controler it wuold be a 58x relucter. However i did'nt recieve the harness and ecm/pcm with the engine from Schram when i bought it. The ones they finally sent me may be off an o7 impala. Witch will have a number of other issues as well.

quote Originally posted by RONT4.9: MstangsBeware; Thanks, i'll do that. I was assuming (should never do that) that because i have the e67 controler it wuold be a 58x relucter. However i did'nt recieve the harness and ecm/pcm with the engine from Schram when i bought it. The ones they finally sent me may be off an o7 impala. Witch will have a number of other issues as well.

This is the same thing that happen with my PCM. They had sold it right before I bought the complete setup so they had to hunt down another PCM for me. I need to check it and see if it matches up with my motor which is out of a 06 Monte Carlo.

FYI if it helps; I bought the complete set of service manuals for my 06 gxp ls4 and they show it to have the 24x relucter, the 1x cam senser, and the ecm is the e-40. I'm not sure if the monty carlo would be the same or even if you can trust the manuals to be correct.

The only reason I got involved with this discussion was because I am helping another guy in a far away state doing a 'big' project.. like a C5R size, but bigger.. he wants it kept 'secret' still... ishhhhh...

Lets just say that cam sensor is an issue about right now.

As to my work, I do have the starter solution and mating done for the Gen3 to 4T65eHD so the starter is on the 05-08 V8 transmission bell housing. Now, I can get away from the custom oil pans I was working on..

What means.. is a LS1 PCM solution for the Gen3 engine, and PCS TCU solution for the NON_TAP shift transmission. TAP shift is already included with the software package and programming of the TCU.. you can even use N.O. switches and upgrade to the nice paddle shift on the column deal becomes affordable.

Loyde
http://www.fastfieros.com/projects

quote Originally posted by sandman3581: Congrats: Going where no one has gone before. I think the accurate designation for the 5.3 is "LM4" which is an updated version of the LS4 produced for FWD only.

Just to clarify, the LM4 was a short-lived aluminum block version of the LM7.

I do remember someone suggesting that there is a longitudinal version of the LS4, but I don't know of any non transverse LS4 cars.

FIEROPHREK; Regarding the timing cover issue. I may be wrong but, it seems to me that we could just swap wires in the msd harness that fire the coil paks to accomadate the 180* cam senser placement. The crank would be in the same spot as if on number 1 or 6, so it seems to me that you could swap 1 and 6, 8 and 5, 7 and 4, 2 and 3 in the harness and the controler would not know the difference. (sorta like turning the distributor 180*) Just a thought.

quote Originally posted by RONT4.9: FIEROPHREK; Regarding the timing cover issue. I may be wrong but, it seems to me that we could just swap wires in the msd harness that fire the coil paks to accomadate the 180* cam senser placement. The crank would be in the same spot as if on number 1 or 6, so it seems to me that you could swap 1 and 6, 8 and 5, 7 and 4, 2 and 3 in the harness and the controler would not know the difference. (sorta like turning the distributor 180*) Just a thought.

I thought of that as well but didn't want swap wires in the harness. It's just as easy for me to install the appropriate timing cover.

Llyode the LS4's water pump housing bolts on overtop of both timing covers with no interferance issues. The only problem is belt routing. To simplify belt routing you could do the wire swap on the ignition harness (like ront4.9 mentioned) and use the LS4's cover.





The black metal wiring shield is removable and the harness extension is removable too. This free's up some room. I'm going to use a remote mounted water pump so i'll just have to worry about a routing for the alternator . That should be fairly simple.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

Bump for news

Ok after much sitting on my arse and procrastinating ,which i do well, i got out in the garage and made some progress. I mock installed the dis-assembled cylinder haeds ,timing cover ,oil pan and intake manifold to the block. I also bolted up the trans ,minus the converter just to lessen the weight while i mock everything up. I was able to get a very nice 88 cradle with suspension from a friend of mine and that is what this eng/trans will be mounted to. Eveything fit nicely with only a few minor interferances.

everything bolted up




After setting the eng/trans on the cradle there were a couple of issues.

The stock engine mount bracket hittting the oil pan. Thats no problem my cutt-off wheel can't fix


oil pan hitting front crossmember. It's barely touching on the corner so it'll either get cut or massaged with a hammer.

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 01-31-2010).]

I guess it depends on how you are mounting the motor/trans but nothing on the 88 cradle needs to be modified for clearance. There are a few places that are close but once its mounted in 4 places, its not going anywhere. I have my motor/trans mounted and everything clears all the way around and nothing have to be done to the cradle. I used plates welded to the cradle for the front/rear engine mount with poly mounts attached to them. Look at my Thread and you will see the pictures of the motor/trans mounted on an 88 cradle.

going to be sick! keep it coming!

i wanted to use mounting components that are fairley common and not to entirely expensive so i picked the energy suspension transmission mounts for 82-92 F-bods. It works well on my V8 blazer so it should do fine on the fiero.

the front mount that came with the LS4 needs the hole elongated to match the poly mounts bolt pattern.


After grinding away the marked area i slapped everything together. I used some cardboard to make some templates for the mount structure and cut them out of 1/4 inch plate steel. Here is everything tack welded and snug installed.






Happy with that i moved on to the foward tranny mount. I figured a way to re-use one of the original fiero mount holes to mount the poly mount. Using this hole also made the bracket that attaches to the tranny much easier to fab. I like simplicity . now all i need to do is drill another hole to mount the poly to the cradle.







Hopefully i will get the rear mounts fabbed up tommorow and get the pics up .


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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 01-31-2010).]

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: I guess it depends on how you are mounting the motor/trans but nothing on the 88 cradle needs to be modified for clearance. There are a few places that are close but once its mounted in 4 places, its not going anywhere. I have my motor/trans mounted and everything clears all the way around and nothing have to be done to the cradle. I used plates welded to the cradle for the front/rear engine mount with poly mounts attached to them. Look at my Thread and you will see the pictures of the motor/trans mounted on an 88 cradle.

I think you will find that the problem is going to be on the right side between the shock tower and the top idler pulley and the water manifold. It gets a little tight in that area. I had to notch the cradle in the left rear corner to be able to move the engine to the left. (upper inside edge whare the suspension mounts) Sorry, i don't have any pictures to show because i have it completely installed now and am just finishing up the wiring and exchaust.

Ok got some stuff done not all but almost. I got the drivers side, rear tranny mount finished up. Like a big dummy i assembeled everything and tacked the pieces together only to realize that i totally forgot about being able to remove the parts :0 . So i clearanced the cradle a little and all is good.

The ever popular side mounting technique


assembled




The passenger side mount is coming along. I rotated the stock mount to put the mount pad in a more convienent location. I had to use a washer stack-up under 2 of the bolts since one hole has a raised boss. also had to remove a small nub on the engine brace to clear the new rotated location. The center bolt hole will have to be elongated to fit a bolt . I ran out of plate steel and ran down to the local lowes and they had no 3/8th's plate so for now im on hold. I was able to get the mounts base done and the template made for the arm. The arm will have the rest of the ultimate dogbone welded to it and it will slip between 2 tabs on the cradle.



I'm having an issue with thinking that this mount set-up will be strong enough. My original plan was to fab a completely new "C" shape mount with the arm as one piece. I guess i will find out sooner or later. Enjoy


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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 01-31-2010).]

Ok a little update for today. Was able to finish the passengerside rear tranny mount and get the mount tabs fabbed.









The mount tabs are not welded to the cradle yet. I am going to take them to work with me and bevel the edges for the weld areas and grind down some of the excess on the top sides. I ran out of sanding discs . After the tabs are welded on im going to put some gussets on them to help with side-to-side flex. Also on the single arm with the poly mount on it, will get caps strips welded to it. Kind of like an " I " beam . I'll get pics of it up once its done. Stay tuned.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 01-31-2010).]

quote Originally posted by RONT4.9: I think you will find that the problem is going to be on the right side between the shock tower and the top idler pulley and the water manifold. It gets a little tight in that area. I had to notch the cradle in the left rear corner to be able to move the engine to the left. (upper inside edge whare the suspension mounts) Sorry, i don't have any pictures to show because i have it completely installed now and am just finishing up the wiring and exchaust.

Yeah--I have test fit the setup a few times now and have ran into the clerance issues. I removed the pass decklid mount and started to adjust the firewall inward for clearance of the pulley. I am going to use a smaller pulley or move the pulleu inward to get the most clearance that I can. The other clearance issue is the trunk side where the low mount is for the low Alt. setup. Where is is going to sit, I will have to clearance a portion of the trunk and move the frame rail over a little. Overall not very much will have to be done for clearance but all in all its going to be a tight fit. I am going to try to have it all worked out next week while I am on vaction so I can move on with the swap. I have taken a few pictures but slow to get them posted.

Ok finally got the chassis in the garage and up in the air for the first trial fit. Everything was good to go . I knew that i was going to have to cut the trunk hinge box on the passenger side so that was already done. I'm most likeley gonna cut the stock dogbone mount off and use that area for the oil filler neck. I currently have it located on the front side of the motor just to see if it was a workable location, it's not LOL. Everything went together nicely and there was only one interferance point. The tranny dipstick tube is resting on one of the rear heat shield mount tabs. I think im going to cut the tube and clock it 90* toward the drivers side and get it out of the way. Well here are the pics.

the car


rear in the air


in the engine bay




notched hinge box

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 01-31-2010).]

Looking good so far BUT--better get ready for some more clearnace issues once you mount the Alt and the water housing. I am on vaction next week andI I plan on haivng my motor in and clearanced and start working on the axles.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Looking good so far BUT--better get ready for some more clearnace issues once you mount the Alt and the water housing. I am on vaction next week andI I plan on haivng my motor in and clearanced and start working on the axles.

The water pump isn't going to be an issue cause im going electric . I'm thinking i can just mount my alternator on the front side of the motor where the AC compressor used to be. I'm not a big fan of AC (in cars ) and the weather here will allow me to get away without AC so it's being deleted. It'll probably be a while before i get anymore updates up so feel free to bump it !

P.S. mustang get some pics up DAMNIT!


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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 04-26-2008).]

Just a bump ! Wating on some connecting rods and info on a SFI rated flexplate. After those items are aquired the rotating assembly will get balanced then the block will be bored. So i sit and wait

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
12.3 is faster than a 13.2

I'm starting a similar swap. And earlier in the thread you said that you were using an ls1 computer and harness. Will that computer control the ls4 transmission. If it will I think this solves a lot of the problems associated with the swap. Painless wiring sells a stand alone kit for the ls1 engine. Thanks in advance for any help.

"Any News" BUMP!!!

If you can afford a bit more in gasoline cost; the LS4 is a fine engine but the issues as I view them are getting the ETC, the DOD, BCM interface, and traction control to work properly. Jon Lagler Fieroaddiction,is now doing an LS4 swap. Ryan Darthfiero has also done this swap but if I recall he may be still working on the traction control issue.
In simple terms if you have ETC, the throttle position is always compared by the the PCM to engine speed and vehicle speed. Even if your foot is to the floor, If they don't match up, the throttle body actuato starts cutting back on the TB's position until thre wheels gain traction. With the DOD thats another story. IMO its going to be hard to control this powertrain in a swap. Someone will eventually develop good engine management, but its doesn't seem available as yet. Please keep us posted.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: If you can afford a bit more in gasoline cost; the LS4 is a fine engine but the issues as I view them are getting the ETC, the DOD, BCM interface, and traction control to work properly. Jon Lagler Fieroaddiction,is now doing an LS4 swap. Ryan Darthfiero has also done this swap but if I recall he may be still working on the traction control issue. In simple terms if you have ETC, the throttle position is always compared by the the PCM to engine speed and vehicle speed. Even if your foot is to the floor, If they don't match up, the throttle body actuato starts cutting back on the TB's position until thre wheels gain traction. With the DOD thats another story. IMO its going to be hard to control this powertrain in a swap. Someone will eventually develop good engine management, but its doesn't seem available as yet. Please keep us posted.

The swap I did has been on the road now for a little under a year. We got the issues resolved with the traction control; actually it had to do with the abuse mode kicking in -- and that has been resolved via some changes made to the ECM tuning. So now the car can smoke the tires all day long should the owner choose to do that.

Concerning the LS4 swap using the computers that come with it, you DO NOT need the body computer (BCM) or any other module besides the ECM (engine computer) and TCM (transmission computer). The only reason why the BCM was installed in the swap I did was because the owner wanted to have the Driver Info Center (DIC), Factory Remote Start, and Keyless Entry System from the donor Grand Prix GXP installed into his Fiero -- and all of that stuff works. The only thing we could not get working is the Acceleration G's readout on the DIC. Appearantly in order for this function to work we would have needed to install at least the ABS computer, steering angle sensor, and yaw/lateral accel sensor. To date the only thing that has kept me from installing ABS on a Fiero are the wheel speed sensors -- in that I have not had the opportunity to come up with a way to install them on the Fiero wheel bearings/hubs yet.

I do have tuning software that can disable the VATS in these LS4 computers so you won't need to install the BCM or any of the VATS stuff if you don't want it.

-ryan

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5+ years on this same swap -- NO engine or transmission failures...

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

Been driving my ls4 swap since last summer. No BCM, no problems. (thanks to DARTH) FAST and dependable.