quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: Someone please please please figure out how to get this engine in our cars. It would be quite impressive unmodded. I'm assuming its also a solid amount lighter than the stock 2.8 or all 3.4 variants and 3.8s, since if I'm not mistaken- its an aluminum block/ heads.

It's aluminum yes, but it's a dohc, so there is more metal than if it were an iron block pushrod. The 3400 is also aluminum, as opposed to the 3.4 from the 4th gen F-bodies.

The total weight probably isn't as low as you assume it might be.

The turbo 2.8 would be completely awesome, I agree, but packaging may be a big problem in a Fiero without redesigning the turbo system. The 'easy power' potential is much higher with that one, though.

If the documentation is correct, the LY7 weighs 370 lbs. as installed. I imagine the LLT is only very slightly heavier.

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'88 Fiero GT - Project MIDTRBO
'10 Camaro LT/RS - daily driver
'96 Talon TSi AWD - 11-second winter beater
There's no replacement for turbo placement

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 01-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by ALLTRBO: If Wikipedia is right, the CTS has always been offered with a manual. 2002-2004 had a Getrag 260, and 2005+ has the Aisin AY6, which is a total POS by pretty much all accounts. I know this because my Camaro got the same one, but with slightly worse gearing. Looking into it, the LY7 and LLT both get their fuel the same way, a returnless system with a standard pump. The LLT then cranks the pressure way up (my Camaro idles at 500psi. It goes up to about 2000psi at redline IIRC) by using an engine driven mechanical fuel pump. The LY7, of course, doesn't. What would the difference be to put either of them into a Fiero?

The CTS has always been offered with a manual option, yes, but it doesn't mean all engines and all transmissions available, can necessarily be bought together. For instance, in the new Camaro, you can always get a manual or an automatic, but on the SS, the LS3 only comes with a manual, and the automatic only gets the L99. You can't get an L99 with a manual, or an LS3 with an auto. I just did a search over the whole country trying to find a CTS with the LY7 and manual trans. It seems most people like to put the 6 speed automatic as manual, which is frustrating. And pretty much nobody has good pics of the engine bay, or they don't list the engine size. Anyway, I did find a few with the 3.6 and a stick, that aren't LLTs, so I guess the LY7 was available in the CTS with a manual, but it seems like a rare find.

I didn't have that information on the fuel system when I made that statement. Where did you find it? I didn't realize the LLT had a mechanical pump that made that much fuel pressure. I had presumed it was a different fuel pump and lines. Interesting the pressure is that high though. I don't think LPG requires that much pressure even, though does require a lot more than normal fuel systems. If everything connecting to the engine is the same, I guess it wouldn't be any more difficult.

quote Originally posted by dobey:The HV V6 engines were nice, yeah, but I prefer the HF family for a V6 option.

BAH, I meant HF. They (these we're talking about, heh) are quite light despite the 'heavy' tech.

quote Originally posted by dobey: I didn't have that information on the fuel system when I made that statement. Where did you find it? I didn't realize the LLT had a mechanical pump that made that much fuel pressure. I had presumed it was a different fuel pump and lines. Interesting the pressure is that high though. I don't think LPG requires that much pressure even, though does require a lot more than normal fuel systems. If everything connecting to the engine is the same, I guess it wouldn't be any more difficult.

This is worthy of quoting here for all to see:
http://www.fullthrottlev6.c...ne-specs-description

LLT:

quote 2010 GM 3.6L V-6 VVT DI (LLT) 3.6L V-6 VVT DI (LLT) CAR and TRUCK ENGINE − Base engine in the Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, Chevrolet Traverse, Chevrolet Camaro, and Cadillac STS. − Optional engine for the Cadillac CTS, CTS Wagon, and Buick LaCrosse − Advanced multi-outlet high pressure fuel injectors that inject fuel directly into the combustion chamber − Variable, high-pressure engine-driven fuel pump for multiple injection events − Stainless steel fuel rail − Advanced engine control module (ECM) for direct injection control − RWD applications matched to 6L50 six-speed automatic transmission − FWD applications matched to 6T75 six speed automatic transmission. It is an advanced transmission with clutch-to-clutch shift operation for front- and all-wheel drive vehicles. The transmission's six-gear configuration allows for a "steep" 4.48:1 first gear, which helps deliver exceptional launch feel, and a 0.74:1 overdrive sixth gear. Sixth gear lowers rpm at highway speeds, reducing noise and vibration while improving fuel economy. Also, the 6T75 offers automatic grade braking, shift stabilization and precise shift control. − New direct injection engine keeps oil life monitoring system − Cam phasing coupled with direct injection further reduces cold start exhaust emissions − Cast aluminum cylinder block and heads − Double overhead cams with four valves per cylinder − Cams driven by small-pitch, inverted tooth chain − Variable valve timing with four-cam phasing for precise intake and exhaust tuning and control − High-power and high efficiency 11.3:1 compression ratio − Cast aluminum polymer coated oil cooled pistons, with a fully floating wristpin − Oil jets cool the pistons, while polymer-coated skirts reduce noise and friction − Durable forged crankshaft, and precision sinter-forged connecting rods − Cast aluminum structural oil pan stiffens the cylinder block structure and reduces noise − Electronic throttle control with advanced integrated cruise control − Reliable coil-on-spark-plug ignition − Optimally tuned exhaust manifolds with close-coupled catalytic converters − Composite camshaft covers are fully isolated and reduce noise − Numerous other noise, vibration and harshness controls − Exclusive durability enhancements and minimal maintenance requirements − Manufacturing techniques refined for exceptional quality and manufacturing efficiency Full Description of New and Updated Features Base engine in Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, Chevrolet Traverse, Cadillac STS, and Chevrolet Camaro. Optional engine in Cadillac CTS, CTS Wagon, and Buick LaCrosse. The 3.6L VVT V-6 DI engine is the base engine in the Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, Chevrolet Traverse, Chevrolet Camaro LT and LS, and Cadillac STS. It is also the optional engine in the Cadillac CTS, CTS Wagon, and Buick LaCrosse. The LLT is an efficient and powerful 3.6L DOHC V-6 engine with variable valve timing and direct fuel injection technology. Introduction in the 2009 Traverse is the first application of the sophisticated engine in a Chevrolet. It is backed by a fuel-saving six-speed automatic transmission. The powertrain combination delivers strong, on-demand performance including 0-60mph acceleration of approximately 8 seconds in the Traverse and a projected 25 mpg in highway driving. Advanced multi-outlet fuel injectors for direct combustion chamber fuel injection Conventional port-injected engines inject fuel upstream of the intake valve into the intake port, and this fuel and air mixture enters the combustion chamber when the intake valve opens. On the direct-injection 3.6-liter V-6 VVT DI, fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber during the intake stroke, at which time only air flows through the intake system and into the combustion chamber when the intake valve opens. During the subsequent compression stroke, the fuel and air mixture now in the combustion chamber is ignited conventionally by the spark plug. As the fuel vaporizes in the cylinder, the air and fuel mixture is cooled. This enables the use of a higher compression ratio in the combustion chamber, which improves engine performance and efficiency. Less fuel is required to produce the equivalent horsepower as a result of direct-injection technology compared to a conventional port-injection fuel system. Direct-injection technology also helps reduce cold-start emissions by approximately 25 percent. The direct-injection fuel injectors, that inject fuel directly into the combustion chamber, are located beneath the intake ports, which transfer only air. Because the ports are not used to mix the fuel and air, efficiency of the air flow is increased. In addition, the control of the injection event, via direct-injection technology, is very precise and results in better combustion efficiency and fuel consumption at all throttle openings. A higher compression ratio is also possible due to a cooling effect as the injected fuel vaporizes in the combustion chamber. This cooling effect reduces the charge temperature reducing the likelihood of spark knock. The direct-injection fuel injectors have been developed to withstand the greater heat and pressure inside the combustion chamber, and also utilize multiple outlets for best injection control. The increased combustion efficiency and control helps to reduce emissions, particularly during cold starts, which is when the bulk of emissions are created. As noted earlier, the 3.6L V-6 VVT DI engine's compression ratio is also increased to 11.3:1, aiding power output and fuel efficiency. The 3.6-liter V-6 VVT DI is based on GM's sophisticated 60-degree dual overhead cam (DOHC) V-6 engine. It is the latest member of a growing family of GM's V-6 engines developed for applications around the world, drawing on the best practices and creative expertise of GM technical centers in Australia, Germany, North America, and Sweden. High-pressure engine-driven fuel pump for multiple injection events To overcome the higher pressures inside the combustion chamber, as well as supply the multiple injection points of the direct injection nozzles, an engine-driven high-pressure pump supplies fuel to the injectors. This variable pressure high-pressure pump feeds a high-strength stainless steel fuel rail that is attached to the injectors. The high-pressure pump is supplied by a conventional fuel pump mounted in the fuel tank. The high-pressure pump can supply up to 1,740 psi (120 bar) of pressure, although delivered pressure is dependent upon fuel demand and engine speed. For example, at idle, the fuel system is regulated to about 508 psi (35 bar) and increases with demand. The high-pressure pump is mounted on the end of the cylinder head and is driven by the exhaust cam. Advanced electronic control module (ECM) for direct injection control The engine management system uses a sophisticated controller (ECM) designed to drive the high pressure fuel system and provide software and calibration capability to control all of the engine's hardware and engine management systems. 6T75 six-speed automatic transmission The 3.6 VVT V-6 DI engine will be mated to the 6T75 six-speed automatic transmission. It is an advanced transmission with clutch-to-clutch shift operation for front- and all-wheel drive vehicles. The transmission's six-gear configuration allows for a "steep" 4.48:1 first gear, which helps deliver exceptional launch feel, and a 0.74:1 overdrive sixth gear. Sixth gear lowers rpm at highway speeds, reducing noise and vibration while improving fuel economy. Also, the 6T75 offers automatic grade braking, shift stabilization and precise shift control. Oil life monitoring system The 3.6L (LLT) engine incorporates a number of other customer-friendly features, including GM's industry-leading Oil Life System, which determines oil change intervals by actual operation parameters, rather than a preset mileage limit. Cam phasing coupled with direct injection further reduces exhaust emissions Cam phasing pays big dividends in reducing exhaust emissions by optimizing exhaust valve overlap and eliminating the need for a separate exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system.

quote Overview Introduced in the 2004 Cadillac CTS, the 3.6L V-6 VVT (RPO LY7) was the first in GM's global family of high-feature V-6 engines, with four cam, four valves per cylinder configuration, with the cams driven by maintenance free silent primary chain drive. Its architecture was jointly developed by GM technical centers in Australia, Germany, the United States and Sweden. The 3.6L V-6 VVT DI ( LLT ) is based on the philosophy that a true family of global engines provides the best value and performance for the customer and the best return on investment for General Motors. It applies the most advanced automotive engine technology available, from state-of-the-art casting processes to full four-cam phasing to ultra-fast data processing and torque-based engine management. Since its launch, application has spread to an expanding number of vehicles for one primary reason. The 3.6L V-6 VVT DI delivers a market-leading balance of good specific output, high torque over a broad rpm band, fuel economy, low emissions and first-rate noise, vibration and harshness control, with exclusive durability enhancing features and very low maintenance. Like earlier versions of the high-feature V-6, the 3.6-liter VVT DI employs four cam phasing to change the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary. The result is linear delivery of torque, with near-peak levels over a broad rpm range, and high specific output (maximum horsepower per liter of displacement) without sacrificing overall engine response and drivability. When combined, direct-injection and cam phasing technologies enable an unmatched combination of power, efficiency and low-emissions in gasoline V-6 engines. By closing the exhaust valves late at appropriate times, the cam phasers allow the engine to draw the desired amount of exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber, reducing unburned hydrocarbon emissions. The return of exhaust gases also decreases peak combustion temperatures which contributes to the reduction of oxides of nitrogen (NOx) emissions. In tandem with the dramatic 25-percent reduction in cold-start hydrocarbon emissions brought on by direct-injection, the 3.6-liter V-6 VVT DI surpasses all emissions mandates, and does so without complex, weight-increasing emissions control systems such as EGR and air injection reaction (AIR). The 3.6L V-6 VVT DI incorporates a timing chain with a relatively small pitch of 7.70 mm. The chain features an inverted tooth design. The smaller links engage at a lower impact speed, which decreases the noise generated. In conjunction with the smaller pitch chain, the number of teeth on the sprockets are increased which increases the meshing frequency and further reduces noise and vibration. The inverted tooth timing chain is now used on all of GM's V-6 VVT engines since its introduction in the 2007 model year. The oil pan on 3.6L V-6 VVT DI is stiffened to improve powertrain rigidity and reduce vehicle vibration. The oil pan bolts to the transmission bell housing as well as the engine block, eliminating points of vibration. The oil pan provides another example of extensive efforts to minimize noise and vibration in the 3.6L V-6 VVT DI. Cast aluminum dampens internal engine noise better than a conventional stamped steel pan. Structurally, it is considerably stiffer. The design was optimized with math-based analysis and carefully crafted curves in the pan's sides and bottom. These reduce the broadcasting or "drumming'' of noise created as oil flows through the crankcase, and they increase bending stiffness in the pan. Like the conventionally injected 3.6L V-6 VVT DI, the direct injection engine's block is a precision casting (precision sand molds) and cast from a aluminum alloy, A319 alloy in this instance. It incorporates cast-in iron bore liners, six-bolt main bearing journals and inter-bay breather vents. Cylinder heads are also aluminum. Four valves per cylinder and a silent chain valvetrain contribute to both smoothness and high output. Four-cam phasing changes the timing of valve operation as operating conditions such as rpm and engine load vary. That means smooth, even torque delivery with high specific output (horsepower per liter of displacement) and excellent specific fuel consumption. Cam phasing also pays big dividends in reducing exhaust emissions. By closing the exhaust valves late at appropriate times, the cam phasers create an internal exhaust-gas recirculation system. The 3.6L V-6 VVT DI meets all emissions mandates without complex, weight-increasing emissions control systems such as EGR and air injection reaction (AIR). Aluminum-intensive construction extends to the pistons, which are manufactured as cast aluminum polymer coated oil cooled pistons, with a fully floating wristpin, and these pistons are considerably lighter than conventional pistons. Less weight means less reciprocating mass in the engine, which in turn means less inertia and greater operating efficiency. Moreover, the V-6 VVT pistons are crafted with a number of features that enhance durability and reduce noise and harshness, including a high-tech polymer coating and floating wrist pins. The V-6 VVT engine family was developed with pressure-actuated oil squirters in all applications. Three jet assemblies in the block hold a pair of oil-squirting nozzles that drench the underside of each piston and the surrounding cylinder wall with an extra layer of cooling, friction-reducing oil. The jets reduce piston temperature, which in turn allows the engine to produce more power without reducing long-term durability. The crankshaft is manufactured from forged steel, and the connecting rods are a sinter forging, as used on other 3.6L V-6 VVT engines. The camshaft covers are fully isolated composite material covers that also perform as a noise barrier. The 3.6L V-6 VVT is managed the Bosch Motronic E69 controller. This sophisticated electronic control module (ECM) uses a torque-based control strategy, which improves upon throttlebased management systems that rely exclusively on a throttle position sensor to manage electronic throttle control. Cruise control is also integrated into the electronic throttle control. The torque-based strategy measures the cam phasing positions and other operational parameters and translates that data into an ideal throttle position and engine output, based on the driver's positioning of the accelerator pedal. The ECM and a wide range of sensors allow failsafe systems, including ignition operation in the event of timing sensor failures. The ignition is individual coil-on-plug. The control software protects the V-6 VVT from permanent damage in the event of complete coolant loss, and allows the engine to operate at reduced power for a prescribed distance sufficient for the driver to find service. It also allows a number of other customer-friendly features, including GM's industry-leading Oil Life System, which determines oil change intervals by actual operation parameters, rather than a preset mileage limit. Low Maintenance The cam drive and valvetrain components require no scheduled maintenance. A sophisticated cam-chain tensioner, high-quality cam phasing components and hydraulic lash adjusters are designed to ensure optimal valvetrain performance for the life of the engine with no adjustment. Even perishable components provide extended useful life. The spark plugs incorporate precious metal electrodes that allow a service life of 100,000 miles without degradation in spark plug performance. The plugs are easy to remove because they are located in the center of the cam cover. Extended life coolant retains its cooling and corrosion-inhibiting properties for 100,000 miles in normal use. The accessory-drive belt was specified primarily for low-noise operation, yet it is manufactured from EPDM rather than neoprene and should last the same 100,000 miles before replacement is recommended. The oil filter requires only element replacement, and it's designed to virtually eliminate spillage when the cartridge is removed. The 3.6L direct injection V-6 VVT variant can be built with no significant casting changes to major components than the conventionally injected 3.6L VVT V-6 that is also built in St. Catharines, Ontario and Melbourne, Australia. Core engine components are designed to be common whenever possible. The basic V-6 block is used in all vehicle applications, with differences limited to machining. While different vehicles require different oil pans, the pan's mating surfaces with the engine block and transmission are common in all cases, allowing considerable assembly efficiencies. The net result is streamlined procurement practices, fewer tool changes in the plant, shorter assembly time and improved quality for the customer. The 3.6L V-6 VVT DI engine is built in GM Plants located in Flint - Michigan, St. Catharines - Ontario - Canada, Ramos - Mexico, and Melbourne - Australia.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 01-02-2011).]

Another possible upgrade - copied from the Camaro site:

In addition to the new 2012 Camaro options/features revealed a few days ago, it seems there may be a new V6 engine for the 2012 Camaro. Labeled the “LFX”, it seems to be a significant improvement on the already outstanding LLT V6 found in LS and LT Camaros.

The new engine option description is: “LFX 3.6L SIDI, DOHC, VVT, E85 MAX, Alum GM“

The LFX should displace 3.6L, like the current V6 found in the Camaro. And it’s packed to the brim with advanced technologies like Spark-Ignition Direct-Injection, Dual Overhead Cams, Variable Valve Timing, and E85 capability!!

We feel that the LFX may produce in the 325-330hp ballpark in the 2012 V6 Camaro.


Jim

So you guys who are planning to do this as your next swap, do you have a strategy in mind?
I'm curious if you're waiting for hptuners to crack the DI ECM or a standalone ecm? or plan to swap everything over from a whole donor car?

quote Originally posted by Scottzilla79: So you guys who are planning to do this as your next swap, do you have a strategy in mind? I'm curious if you're waiting for hptuners to crack the DI ECM or a standalone ecm? or plan to swap everything over from a whole donor car?

I really don't care if HP Tuners 'cracks' the ECM or not. I plan on using most all the stuff out of a G6 GXP in my car (just because it's an easy way to get the whole thing modernized, and the interior in the G6 is pretty nice). But I do plan on hacking the ECM program to tune some things. And I won't be using an automatic, but will be doing the LY7 with an F40.

quote Originally posted by Jim88GT: Another possible upgrade - copied from the Camaro site: In addition to the new 2012 Camaro options/features revealed a few days ago, it seems there may be a new V6 engine for the 2012 Camaro. Labeled the “LFX”, it seems to be a significant improvement on the already outstanding LLT V6 found in LS and LT Camaros. The new engine option description is: “LFX 3.6L SIDI, DOHC, VVT, E85 MAX, Alum GM“ The LFX should displace 3.6L, like the current V6 found in the Camaro. And it’s packed to the brim with advanced technologies like Spark-Ignition Direct-Injection, Dual Overhead Cams, Variable Valve Timing, and E85 capability!! We feel that the LFX may produce in the 325-330hp ballpark in the 2012 V6 Camaro. Jim

The 2012 LFX 3.6 will also carry larger heads, and exhaust valves, a new "tuneable" ECM, and have a revised intake manifold.

Is it correct that the 2.8 HF turbo V6 in the SAAB is only connected to a six speed manual all wheel drive transaxle? Or do they offer it in FWD also? This same 2.8 turbo engine was offered in the 2010 Cadillac SRX but with automatic only. It did not sell well so it has been discontinued for 2011. SRX owners are not really concerned about power.........

Frankly, I would be happy with any 3.6 HF engine attached to the six speed manual transaxle. I'd like the DI motor, but even the Malibu 3.6 with sequential fuel injection would put out plenty of power in a Fiero and give it that high rpm scream we don't have now.