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Beast Fiero by theBDub
Started on: 05-12-2010 10:20 PM
Replies: 116
Last post by: Oreif on 05-24-2010 06:13 AM
theBDub
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Report this Post05-12-2010 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
Hey all, my name is Brennan and I'm new to this forum.

I owned a Fiero for about a year while in high school, but couldn't keep up with the high maintenance costs so I had to sell it. It was hard to part with it, and I promised myself I'd get another when I got out of college and make it the fastest Fiero on the street. I don't know a TON about cars, but I know some general info. I'm hoping y'all can help me out!

Money isn't a problem; I won't go into details, but just trust me, the sky is the limit here.

I want my Fiero to be a 10 second car. And I love the raw power and sound of a V8. I've researched and seen a ton of these small blocks getting put into Fieros and putting out just over 200 hp and running high 14s! Why does this happen? Why am I not finding hardly any V8 powered Fieros with fast quarters? If I want an LS7 in my Fiero, why would I not get at least 450 going to the wheels? And if I would, why aren't others doing this and running their cars on the strip?!

I know the engine isn't everything, but that's about as far as my automobile education goes... for now. I want you guys to tell me what all the fastest Fiero would have done to it. If money was not a problem, what would you have done to your own Fiero?

Lots of questions! But it's to settle lots of curiosity, vision, and passion!
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Report this Post05-12-2010 11:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OnefieroClick Here to Email OnefieroSend a Private Message to OnefieroDirect Link to This Post
FieroX has the fasted fiero right now. Its a 3800 turbo. Im sure other people can give more info on it.
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Report this Post05-12-2010 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mtownfieroClick Here to Email mtownfieroSend a Private Message to mtownfieroDirect Link to This Post
the problem with v8's is that your asking a lot out of a fwd transmission that was never ment to handle that kind of torque. the 3800's are popular for going fast because they have the right amount of tq. and hp with a good transmission that is mated to it. Thats basicly the gist of it but im sure someone can explain it better.
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Report this Post05-12-2010 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post
Just for grins & giggles, check out this front-engine Fiero: www.boomtastic.com - if the page comes up for you: Eric doesn't code for all browsers. (I have Opera & Flash works fine but not for his site....)
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

The older I get, the better I was.
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theBDub
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Report this Post05-13-2010 12:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
So I've heard that a Pontiac G6 GT 6-Speed can fit pretty well in the Fiero, with some mild modifications. This I know nothing about, but if someone does: Does that change the whole game? Does that allow the V8 to operate at full (or at least higher) potential?

I appreciate the quick responses. I wasn't expecting such fast replies!
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theBDub
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Report this Post05-13-2010 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
Tha Driver -

Thanks for the link! I checked it out, seems like a different touch. My question is: Why would you do that? What are the benefits of putting the engine in front?

Once I saw a Fiero online with two motorcycle engines combined with a simple band. Apparently it was pretty quick. I don't know the details, though, or where the source was.


Oh and I know FieroX is the fastest out there.... I wanna beat him I know that's a big claim--I'm sure plenty people put a lot into their Fiero. But I go big or go home.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 12:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
these guys know what they're talking about. if money isn't an issue...I one hate you already ;p and two would build a set up from scratch, go with a v8 or v10 ( probably a v8 ) and get custom gears and axles etc made.

What you have to decide is this...do you want a v6 or a v8.

I personally wont be happy untill I have a v8 so that is the route i will be going with either a northstar sbc or some other option i have not seen.

My pipe dream is a 632 ci v8 with turbo(s) and nos...-shivers from thinking about it- that engine gets around 800hp i beleive out of the crate. ith turbos or super charger plus performance internals who knows, and then nos...skies the limit

[This message has been edited by Hockaday (edited 05-13-2010).]

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theBDub
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Report this Post05-13-2010 01:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hockaday:

these guys know what they're talking about. if money isn't an issue...I one hate you already ;p and two would build a set up from scratch, go with a v8 or v10 ( probably a v8 ) and get custom gears and axles etc made.

What you have to decide is this...do you want a v6 or a v8.

I personally wont be happy untill I have a v8 so that is the route i will be going with either a northstar sbc or some other option i have not seen.

My pipe dream is a 632 ci v8 with turbo(s) and nos...-shivers from thinking about it- that engine gets around 800hp i beleive out of the crate. ith turbos or super charger plus performance internals who knows, and then nos...skies the limit



See but that's what I'm talking about! You are talking about this engine creating 800hp... sure that isn't to the wheels but why hasn't anyone done it? Why are there not like 9 second Fieros out there?! I mean these things weigh a ton. Literally just one freaking ton! I can't believe FieroX is the fastest at... 10.4 I believe?

And yeah, I wouldn't be happy with a V6. But I do want the fastest. I know FieroX has a V6, but I don't understand why a V8 wouldn't be faster. I know it's not all about raw power--foreign automakers love to remind Americans of that--but I just don't understand cars enough to understand why someone hasn't MADE IT WORK to be a super car.


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Report this Post05-13-2010 02:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochDirect Link to This Post
Just from what I've seen:

Transverse applications are limited by room and transmission choices, those choosing to do the balls out installs are using autos for drag racing consistency and power handling capability.

Longitudinal installations are limited by room front to back, the bay's just aren't that long. If you're trying to do "the fastest fiero", sky's the limit, but if I was set on a fiero with that much power, I'd contract somebody to build a custom tube frame, stretched behind the seats, and throw in a longitudinal engine attached to a racing transaxle. Then, you're limited by engine power, not how many pieces of transmission you want to pick up off the street. If money isn't an option, call Archie (www.v8archie.com) and spitball it with him. You'd basically be building a one-off car that looks like a fiero.

My only question at that point would be why a fiero? Don't get me wrong, but you'd be trying to get around the compromises made by pontiac in the design every which way from Sunday.. If the model has specific appeal to you, then do it.. Otherwise, build a monster vette, or buy a Ford GT, or a crazy-built ariel atom or something.

Those on this forum that have over 500hp in a fiero end up with very little fiero left except the basic look...
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theBDub
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Report this Post05-13-2010 02:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
Aaron,

Thank you! That's exactly the kind of response I was looking for.

Why the Fiero? I couldn't tell ya... I love cars. I still squeal when I see my friend's Z06 pull out of the driveway... but Fieros... it's not just the car itself. It's the community behind the Fiero that grabs me. It's the fact that few people have even HEARD of them but I can make any head turn when I drive a STOCK one down the street. It's the rarity behind a car only in production from 84-88! I am a sucker for anything unique, and these especially have my love.

Plus the fact that it was the first car I bought with my own money. That will always hold a special place in my heart.

Oh, and my best friend has an 89 'Stang GT that I want to do circles around because he has no faith in Fieros.

I'm saving your response for a later view. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer! Now one more question. I've heard from a few people that Cletus doesn't really know what he's doing... That he's been doing the same thing for 25 years but isn't adapting to the times. Is this true? What is your take?
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Report this Post05-13-2010 02:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for aaronkochClick Here to Email aaronkochSend a Private Message to aaronkochDirect Link to This Post
Not sure if you're flame-baiting or not, but here's my answer:

I'm not an Archie customer, probably won't ever be, as I'm putting a 3800 in mine right now. That being said, from what I've seen, he does quality work, from v8 kits to custom body work, to kit cars. Is he the only business in town? No, but I've been into fieros for about 14 years, and I can say that Archie has been consistently excellent with his customer support, quality of work, and dedication to his craft based on what I see people say about him. There is a group of people that for whatever reason dislike him (I don't know the story, nor do I care), making fun of his love of the v8, etc, but I've never once seen a customer of his that was unsatisfied.

To those out there that mock him, their usual complaint is that he's expensive or that his V8 installs only put out xxx hp, or such and such, but I can say that the customer chooses their motor, the mods they're willing to do, etc. I haven't heard of a single one of his builds breaking, that's not to say it's never happened, but I haven't seen it. There are a million ways to make a car, and his might not be the cheapest, but if I personally was going to plunk down cash for a nice swap / car, I would damn well want the guy who did it to back his work up, and there Archie shines...

Take it or leave it, that's my take on it. I have no idea where the whole "cletus" thing comes from.. Archie's customers tend to be adults, and maybe those that bash him can't afford him, or something... Dunno, don't care. Reputation in the fiero world is hard to come by, people come, people go, flash in the pan products show up, dissapear, etc.. Archie's still here, so he's gotta be doing something right.


------------------
----------------------------------------------------
Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

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Report this Post05-13-2010 03:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
I have been hearing it all from just a couple guys. I was absolutely not looking for a flame-spitting match, just an honest opinion! And you gave a much better answer than the "group" of guys I was talking to. Again, I appreciate the response.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 04:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GenopsydeClick Here to visit Genopsyde's HomePageSend a Private Message to GenopsydeDirect Link to This Post
sky is the limit, and you want a V8? this would be my formula....

world products has a 454 small block chevy motor. big cubes in a small package. makes 600hp out of the box. I would mate that to a built 4t65e-hd with a stand-alone controller, and spray the engine with nitrous. Should be easy 9's, maybe even 8's.

http://www.worldcastings.co.../motown-454-engines/

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Report this Post05-13-2010 05:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for R RunnerClick Here to visit R Runner's HomePageClick Here to Email R RunnerSend a Private Message to R RunnerDirect Link to This Post
Are you going to build the car yourself or have one built? Do you just want to be fast in the quarter mile or does the car need to turn also? The Fiero is more of a handling car than a full out drag car. That being said, the most successful Fiero drag cars have been front engine. Fiero X is the fastest on the PFF list. He is a good friend and has done a fantastic job of R&D, test and tune, as well as been stead fast to his goal. However, there have been front engine Fieros that have gone 9s. There are many of the old school guys are not on the forum. The car I built is intended to do everything and is not geared for just the quarter. See the link in my signature to my CarDomain page for details. Personally I think a longitudnal V8 in a Fiero is possible without a stretch and without using a toranado transaxle. Every inch must be conserved. I can give you some ideas if you are interested but I need to run to work right now.

------------------
Paul

My IMSA Build: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789315
HHP Adjustable Sway Bars: //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/036556.html

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Report this Post05-13-2010 07:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for couldahadaV8Click Here to visit couldahadaV8's HomePageSend a Private Message to couldahadaV8Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:
I mean these things weigh a ton. Literally just one freaking ton! I can't believe FieroX is the fastest at... 10.4 I believe?


No, actually they weigh around 2700 lbs stock, and then add to that the additional weight of whatever engine you are going to put in it. So you will be at a race weight of around 3000 lbs. Still pretty light by todays sports car standards.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 08:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Those on this forum that have over 500hp in a fiero end up with very little fiero left except the basic look...


I have well over 500hp, and I dont have any problems almost running 10s on 100% all stock fiero parts/chassis/frame/cradle/axles/brakes/interior, all in stock weight type form, with WELL under a $2000 investment, including a car, custom paint, motor swap, and all the horsepower parts.

For the last few years as my car is a true daily driver, I have been running my turbo setup on 14psi of boost, running around the low 11 area. Last week I turned it up to 21psi, and I know I would have no issues running in the mid/high 10s. I have played around enough on the street to know it would do it.

There are a few manual guys around that have no problems making more power than me, but they are limited at the track due to clutches/shifting. It is not the transmission itself that is the factor with manuals, a fresh fiero 5speed works well around 600hp, and there are a few other late model 5speeds that work even better than the fiero getrag. The axles are very tough, and the other late model getrags have moderately harder install but even greater strength than the fiero 282.

2009 LS3 C6 vette vs fiero.... Couldnt even give him a race.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXnxVlxnWLU

------------------
11.6@120 3800 turbo 88 coupe

Ultimate 3800 swap thread

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 05-13-2010).]

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Oreif
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Report this Post05-13-2010 08:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

I want my Fiero to be a 10 second car. And I love the raw power and sound of a V8. I've researched and seen a ton of these small blocks getting put into Fieros and putting out just over 200 hp and running high 14s! Why does this happen? Why am I not finding hardly any V8 powered Fieros with fast quarters?


I have no clue where you are getting your information from (although I do suspect a certain person) The "V8 that is 200hp and 14 seconds" is the Cadillac 4.9L engine not an SBC. The stock SBC engines generally put you in the mid 13's to high 12's depending on the engine. When someone mentions SBC, They need to identify which one as the power can range from 170hp up to 505hp LS7.
A LM1 SBC is rated at around 260-270 hp. Figure around low/mid 13's.
I have a ZZ4 crate engine with the 4-spd manual. The ZZ4 is rated at 355hp and my car runs pretty consistantly at 12.3 in the 1/4 mile. This is an "off-the-shelf" engine.
There are others here who have built up their cars. Pat Ciarcia built his with nitrous and ran a 10.3 second 1/4 mile. http://www.v8archie.com/v8A...omers/PatCiarcia.htm
Other are listed on the 1/4 mile list //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/070670.html
Like Tina with her built 383 ran 11.5
Don Kraus has recently finished a built LSx 427 V-8 Fiero. We are waiting to see what it does in the 1/4 mile. //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000083.html
Nick Wagoner's 505 hp LS1 is also impressive. http://www.hotrod.com/featu...ontiac_fiero_gt.html

So the problem isn't that a SBC cannot make the power, the SBC has one of the largest performance aftermarkets of any engine.

But.........

The biggest problem with wanting to get into the 10 second (or faster) range is the transaxle. There isn't a lot of high powered transaxles available. Most folks who do V-8 swaps use the manual transaxles for the "sportscar feel'. While the Fiero manual transaxles do well up to around 400hp, They are not very durable over that. Some other manual transaxles have been used like the NSX and G6 6-spd but as to what power these can take is unknown. The auto transaxles can be built to hold more power. A very good example of limits is FieroX's car. While he is using a 3800 turbo, If you do a search for his threads you will notice his biggest obsticle wasn't getting the engine to make the power, But rather getting the power to the ground. I know he has went thru a few transaxles before getting one to stay together. Even Don Kraus who has the 427 LSx above has had some transaxle issues as well (see his build thread noted above) At present there are enough aftermarket parts and performance shops to build a 4T65E-HD to hold the larger amounts of power. If you are serious about wanting to go 10 seconds or faster, This is where you need to start. FieroX and Don can provide you the details on getting the power to the ground.

------------------

Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

ZZ4 Powered !!

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Report this Post05-13-2010 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DL10Click Here to visit DL10's HomePageClick Here to Email DL10Send a Private Message to DL10Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

Aaron,
Now one more question. I've heard from a few people that Cletus doesn't really know what he's doing... That he's been doing the same thing for 25 years but isn't adapting to the times. Is this true? What is your take?


My take is you say you want a V-8 Fiero yet you come on here and basically bad mouth the guy who has done more v-8 swaps than anyone out there. You must be spending allot of time on the other forum to call Archie,......... Cletus

You say you want a LS7 I believe Archie is the one of the few people who have done this. Don't burn your bridges before you cross them.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchDirect Link to This Post
Why do so many people want to make a dragster out of a Fiero? Don't try for the best 1/4 mile, try for the best Nürburgring lap time (or whatever road course you can get on).
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Report this Post05-13-2010 11:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
If you do a search for his threads you will notice his biggest obsticle wasn't getting the engine to make the power, But rather getting the power to the ground.


Unfair comparison... He was doing things that the grand prix community would (and did) laugh at trying to run 12's in a fwd... The latest trans build he has may be the first one he has that will be stronger than stock. Axles are also not the problem he makes them out to be. I have never broken one making similar power, and FWD guys have all ran stock axles into the 8's/9s without issues. Again I am in the low 11s/10s right now on a BONE STOCK factory trans, without even as much as a shiftkit, on STOCK fiero axles.

fierox is STILL having issues making the power.. in essence he still has a stock motor, so fixing that shouldnt be too hard.

 
quote
Even Don Kraus who has the 427 LSx above has had some transaxle issues as well


Again, don broke a stock 4t65e (or maybe it was a 4043, which are no stronger than stock inputs) input shaft, which is the first to go on all of the FWD guys that run in the 12s. I am still confused why the "fast" fiero people are not taking notes from grand prix

 
quote
some other manual transaxles have been used like the NSX and G6 6-spd but as to what power these can take is unknown.


Their power-handling is unknown, but there are 5speeds that are known to handle 500+whp reliably, with non abusive driving.

The fiero is a natrual born dragster... Just add some horsepower, and ALL of the stock parts down to the stock wheels even, are good for 9 second 1/4 miles with a mildly built transmission and some horsepower (easy to find in the world of forced induction and fuel injection)
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Report this Post05-13-2010 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jsketchamClick Here to Email jsketchamSend a Private Message to jsketchamDirect Link to This Post
Well I dunno but let's not bash Cletus either... he did a fine job keeping the General Lee lookin good and running good for Bow and Luke Duke. I highly doubt Archie's work as a craftsman in his trade is questioned. All I have even seen is works of art from his shop. Only bad things i've heard people say is he is uhm.. on a higher level than most when they talk to him.. doesnt mean he is a bad guy. doctors talk in a language we don't understand too . he is proficient in what he does. I applaud him for his skill and talent. That being said, i'm heading out to get into my 2.8L GT and tear up the road.. have a wonderful day everyone.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 11:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Direct Link to This Post
I'd like to see him go go go, with no money limit, custom make a ton of stuff. Make the engine light, all aluminum. Seems the trans is what is holding most folks back. I mean slot of folks here are Ferrari fans, make a Fiero that can whip the Ferrari's behind. Why not?

fastest one I rode in so far is Tina's with the 383 chevy, nothing near where you want to go to I would imagine. I don't know the HP, but it was pretty fast. One thing to rember and maybe that is why some folks don't like the idea, is

don't loose handling just to gain sraight line power.

Make it a fun fast sportscar that you can street drive!

my 2 cents into your pile of money

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-13-2010).]

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Report this Post05-13-2010 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for R RunnerClick Here to visit R Runner's HomePageClick Here to Email R RunnerSend a Private Message to R RunnerDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TopNotch:

Why do so many people want to make a dragster out of a Fiero? Don't try for the best 1/4 mile, try for the best Nürburgring lap time (or whatever road course you can get on).


Exactly. The whole point of my build.

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Report this Post05-13-2010 12:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


Unfair comparison... He was doing things that the grand prix community would (and did) laugh at trying to run 12's in a fwd... The latest trans build he has may be the first one he has that will be stronger than stock. Axles are also not the problem he makes them out to be. I have never broken one making similar power, and FWD guys have all ran stock axles into the 8's/9s without issues. Again I am in the low 11s/10s right now on a BONE STOCK factory trans, without even as much as a shiftkit, on STOCK fiero axles.

fierox is STILL having issues making the power.. in essence he still has a stock motor, so fixing that shouldnt be too hard.


Your in the 10's??? since when?

Grand Prix's?? GP's are FWD, There is a huge loading difference between a FWD chassis and a transverse mounted mid-engine RWD chassis off the line. There is a reason the same transaxle in a Fiero will break before it does in a FWD GP.

FieroX's has a basically stock motor??? When did a basically stock turbo 3800 output over 500hp at the crank??? The GNX turbo engines were rated at 276hp and there were rumors they were underrated and a lot closer to 300hp, But that is a far cry from 500hp.

I have yet to see a FWD grand Prix run in the 8's. I have seen 1 run in the 9's but he had a twin turbo/nitrous GP with a custom built $25K transaxle in Norwalk back in 2006. The most I've seen of GP's I have seen at various tracks around the midwest all seem to be running low 11's and high 10's. and NONE of them are running stock transaxles.

How is it an "unfair comparison" stating that the transaxle is a weak part when dealing with high horsepower engines?? Unfair comparison to what???????????

 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Again, don broke a stock 4t65e (or maybe it was a 4043, which are no stronger than stock inputs) input shaft, which is the first to go on all of the FWD guys that run in the 12s. I am still confused why the "fast" fiero people are not taking notes from grand prix



Wait a minute now you state that the input shafts are the first thing to break when running 12's, and you say your running low 11's and 10's with a stock unit??????
Again why do you assume that a FWD GP has the same loading on a transaxle as a Fiero????
Amazing how you can contradict yourself in the same post.

 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Their power-handling is unknown, but there are 5speeds that are known to handle 500+whp reliably, with non abusive driving.



What manual 5-spd transmissions are you talking about that can go to over 500 rwhp? Are they a bolt-in to a Fiero? or are you talking in general? I'm sure there are transaxles that can handle high horsepower, But none that would easily adapt to a Fiero or the popular engine swaps for a Fiero.


 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
The fiero is a natrual born dragster... Just add some horsepower, and ALL of the stock parts down to the stock wheels even, are good for 9 second 1/4 miles with a mildly built transmission and some horsepower (easy to find in the world of forced induction and fuel injection)





A transverse mounted engine/trans is a poor way to build a dragster, so how is it the Fiero is a natural born dragster anyway????

Now you say all the stock parts will hold down to 9 second runs???? If it is so easy to run 9's, why haven't you done it? I mean you obviously have gathered the secrets to power from the Grand Prix folks right? You should be running 8's by that account. Your car weighs less and has a natural ability to be a dragster right?

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Hockaday
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Report this Post05-13-2010 01:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HockadaySend a Private Message to HockadayDirect Link to This Post
the reason no one has done what i '' want '' to is this...cost and i mean forget the cost of the parts, you have the raw materials, designs and fabricators ( if you don't do it yourself ) to deal with. the engine alone costs around 13k last i checked and comes as a 572, then its bored out to a 632. i have seen v8s mounted long way and a guy is doing a v12 but i lack the knowledge to give you any dimensions etc. and i beleive tube chasis are not street legal ( havn't checked and dont want to...dmv sites = pandoras box ) the v12s i have seen are bmw and are pretty bad for performance sakes, they do make great stock hp..300ish but they are luxury engines...you can balance a quarter on one while its idling.

Now maybe you could modify the actual space frame to acomidate bigger / longer engines but i don't know the legality / practicality of that. I ould like a northstar but lack of money could be a problem for it, but again it may not, just depends on what i decide.

Just make sure...you think..double think..triple think...and once you're sure...think again. or build 2 or 3 fieros...seems to work for some =)
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Report this Post05-13-2010 01:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tha DriverClick Here to visit Tha Driver's HomePageSend a Private Message to Tha DriverDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

Tha Driver -

Thanks for the link! I checked it out, seems like a different touch. My question is: Why would you do that? What are the benefits of putting the engine in front?



Well if you want a drag racer, all I can tell you is that it was beating everything in it's class (so I'm told).
If you want a straight-line car & still be mid-engine, a BBC & an early FWD automatic (Tornado) will fit in the engine bay & I think handle the HP.
Personally I wouldn't build a Fiero for drag racing. I like the road racing myself.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"
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theBDub
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Report this Post05-13-2010 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
Hey, just a clarification.

I did not know that Archie was not actually called Cletus. I thought his name was like Archie Cletus. Yes, I've gotten all of that "Archie builds junk" info from just one man. I knew he was shortsighted, and that's why I came here. I mean no disrespect to Archie, I was just looking for an honest opinion. I had no idea that "Cletus" was a name given to him by other people that mean disrespect. I know, ignorance is no excuse, but I do apologize to anyone who felt I was meaning disrespect!

And WOW you all are so knowledgeable! I can't believe the stream of information I am getting here. I appreciate the responses so much, guys. You have no idea. I've been looking online for close to a year trying to find the exact specs of what the limit would be, and all I had to do was come on here and ask some simple questions. Y'all are awesome, I appreciate this so much.

I want a street car. Really, I just keep looking at quarters because that is a common and easy way to see if it's fast. Generally speaking. But one of the biggest things I loved about my Fiero was taking a turn. Loved it!! With this new wealth of information, I hope to get my next Fiero started soon and I'll post what I'm going to do. It will be just a couple more years, though, so in the meantime I'll just keep all this in the back of my mind. Until then... I'll still be on the forum. Again, thanks to EVERYBODY for your responses.


P.S.
rrunner, looked at your site, love the Fiero. What a beautiful specimen. I'll be sure to remember that.
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California Kid
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Report this Post05-13-2010 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for California KidSend a Private Message to California KidDirect Link to This Post
Just my opinion, I don't think the Fiero is the best platform for a "reliable" 10 second 1/4 mile car in the typical mid-engine trans axle configuration. If money is no object, you'd be better off just doing on a search on "Pro Street" Cars for sale if you're looking for a reliable 10 second runner that's street-able, and has all required safety gear already.

The Fiero is a great platform for street/road course fun, where it gives you a lot more pleasure than just a 10 second burst.

------------------

Car History: //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/025670.html

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Report this Post05-13-2010 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziClick Here to Email 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziDirect Link to This Post
Just get it over with and buy a honda crx. Those things will run 10's with nothing but a big a** muffler.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 03:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Your in the 10's??? since when?


I was doing sub 11.5s, I just never got the slip because of no cage. I raised the boost from 14 to 21psi a few weeks ago... It is just as fast as Justins 127mph car on the eway now, on 14psi he would beat me by 4+ cars.

 
quote


Grand Prix's?? GP's are FWD, There is a huge loading difference between a FWD chassis and a transverse mounted mid-engine RWD chassis off the line. There is a reason the same transaxle in a Fiero will break before it does in a FWD GP.



I beat the crap out of my trans, way WAY more than FWD guys do, and I have yet to break my BONE STOCK trans. It is not a fluke, I am not doing anything strange, I dont have a single mod. The "things" that these fast people were breaking, were all commonly broken items in fwd configuration, in the 12 1/4mile range.

 
quote

FieroX's has a basically stock motor??? When did a basically stock turbo 3800 output over 500hp at the crank??? The GNX turbo engines were rated at 276hp and there were rumors they were underrated and a lot closer to 300hp, But that is a far cry from 500hp.


Both him and I do not give his regrind cam very much credit.. its basically a 1.9 modded rocker on a stock cam. His lower compression ratio doesnt add anything, and his heads are technically pretty stock... Race gas/e85 and a bit turbo goes quite a long ways.

 
quote

I have yet to see a FWD grand Prix run in the 8's. I have seen 1 run in the 9's but he had a twin turbo/nitrous GP with a custom built $25K transaxle in Norwalk back in 2006. The most I've seen of GP's I have seen at various tracks around the midwest all seem to be running low 11's and high 10's. and NONE of them are running stock transaxles.



Just youtube it... The twinturbo (aka TTGT) car that runs mid 8's has THE SAME trans that is sitting in my grand prix in the front yard. The only mod he had greater than me was a little different billet torque converter. The trans is just a normal rebuild with stock axles, a stock diff, and a off the shelf performance rebuild. Big dollar items include a 300m input shaft and a 1inch GMR drive chain.


 
quote

How is it an "unfair comparison" stating that the transaxle is a weak part when dealing with high horsepower engines?? Unfair comparison to what???????????


Unfair comparison to BONE STOCK transmissions, that last longer than one that you "built" to be weaker than stock. The chain that fierox used was and has been weaker than stock (it was a early 90s 4t60 chain modded for a 4t65e) and should not be used to say that because he doesnt know what he is doing, that is the reason the transmissions suck. Don's accident was unfortunate, but RPMs, a flashy converter, and a weak inputshaft is going to break things... there are PLENTY of better input shafts available for don to run. (the TTGT grand prix even broke the inputshaft that don did, replaced with a stronger one and no issues sense)

quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Again, don broke a stock 4t65e (or maybe it was a 4043, which are no stronger than stock inputs) input shaft, which is the first to go on all of the FWD guys that run in the 12s. I am still confused why the "fast" fiero people are not taking notes from grand prix


 
quote

Wait a minute now you state that the input shafts are the first thing to break when running 12's, and you say your running low 11's and 10's with a stock unit??????
Again why do you assume that a FWD GP has the same loading on a transaxle as a Fiero????
Amazing how you can contradict yourself in the same post.


Input shafts are very commonly broken in 12 second grand prix... there are alot of grandprixs out there, as well as alot of bad drivers, and even more HEAVY cars running alot of power. When you have better traction (less shock loading) less weight (less overall strain), stock torque converter (less shock loading), it is much easier to run in the low 11s high 10s with a stock grand prix transmission.
 
quote


What manual 5-spd transmissions are you talking about that can go to over 500 rwhp? Are they a bolt-in to a Fiero? or are you talking in general? I'm sure there are transaxles that can handle high horsepower, But none that would easily adapt to a Fiero or the popular engine swaps for a Fiero.


I have had nothing but good luck building 282 getrag setups.. The only one I have personally seen broken was sorta ragged out, as well as matt hawkins turbo setup that broke 2nd gear. if you dont want to build one or find a fresh one, go grab a cavi getrag 287, bolt it up, and make a few mounts/shift links for it. You will then enjoy a better slave cyl setup, a fresh/larger box/diff, and some seemingly unbreakable gears.
 
quote
Originally posted by Oreif:

A transverse mounted engine/trans is a poor way to build a dragster, so how is it the Fiero is a natural born dragster anyway????

Now you say all the stock parts will hold down to 9 second runs???? If it is so easy to run 9's, why haven't you done it? I mean you obviously have gathered the secrets to power from the Grand Prix folks right? You should be running 8's by that account. Your car weighs less and has a natural ability to be a dragster right?


Transverse is not ideal, but it works just fine. Its a bit off the beaten path, but a few general fixes to the 65e and they will work alright.

i never once said that all stock parts will run 9's. I have without a doubt proven all stock parts + turbo on 93 octane gets you mid 11's easily (with VERY little test and tune at the track I might add). I have done, but not yet proven high 10 seconds on all stock parts.

I have considered pushing the stock stuff until it breaks but.... see my above comment regarding my future plans....

 
quote
the twinturbo (aka TTGT) car that runs mid 8's has THE SAME trans that is sitting in my grand prix in the front yard. The only mod he had greater than me was a little different billet torque converter.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 03:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ShillSend a Private Message to ShillDirect Link to This Post
So, what most everyone here is saying would be to start with selecting a good trans and building from that rather than what 99% of others do and pick the engine and then attach whatever fits to it?
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Report this Post05-13-2010 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by California Kid:

Just my opinion, I don't think the Fiero is the best platform for a "reliable" 10 second 1/4 mile car in the typical mid-engine trans axle configuration. If money is no object, you'd be better off just doing on a search on "Pro Street" Cars for sale if you're looking for a reliable 10 second runner that's street-able, and has all required safety gear already.

The Fiero is a great platform for street/road course fun, where it gives you a lot more pleasure than just a 10 second burst.



Dude I'm a sucker for Fieros. I don't just want a fast car. Everyone has a "fast car". I want a fast Fiero.

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Report this Post05-13-2010 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:


I was doing sub 11.5s, I just never got the slip because of no cage. I raised the boost from 14 to 21psi a few weeks ago... It is just as fast as Justins 127mph car on the eway now, on 14psi he would beat me by 4+ cars.



Huh? If his car can do XX and your car was close to his it must be a 10-second car. right?



 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Just youtube it... The twinturbo (aka TTGT) car that runs mid 8's has THE SAME trans that is sitting in my grand prix in the front yard. The only mod he had greater than me was a little different billet torque converter. The trans is just a normal rebuild with stock axles, a stock diff, and a off the shelf performance rebuild. Big dollar items include a 300m input shaft and a 1inch GMR drive chain.


What?!?! you have just contradicted yourself in the same sentence!
The SAME trans but an "off the shelf performance rebuild, 300m input shaft and a 1 inch chain. So it's NOT the same, It's been modded!
Normal rebuild = Off the shelf performance rebuild ????????



 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

I have had nothing but good luck building 282 getrag setups.. The only one I have personally seen broken was sorta ragged out, as well as matt hawkins turbo setup that broke 2nd gear. if you dont want to build one or find a fresh one, go grab a cavi getrag 287, bolt it up, and make a few mounts/shift links for it. You will then enjoy a better slave cyl setup, a fresh/larger box/diff, and some seemingly unbreakable gears.


Weren't you the one who was saying manual transaxles always break? And didn't you post:

 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
I have preached the woahs of the manuals for the entire time I have been a part of this forum,


In your "getrag failure" thread?? And now they are good????
Finally, A getrag 282 isn't "known to handle 500 + whp". Some have built some and cryo'd them to handle higher power, But they are not "known" to handle that power.


 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

i never once said that all stock parts will run 9's.



You didn't? Hmmm, maybe you should go back and read your post.

 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
Just add some horsepower, and ALL of the stock parts down to the stock wheels even, are good for 9 second 1/4 miles

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 05-13-2010).]

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kwagner
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Report this Post05-13-2010 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kwagnerClick Here to visit kwagner's HomePageSend a Private Message to kwagnerDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

Once I saw a Fiero online with two motorcycle engines combined with a simple band. Apparently it was pretty quick. I don't know the details, though, or where the source was.


Do you mean this?
Unfortunately, most of the pics are gone now, but some on page 4 still work.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 06:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Huh? If his car can do XX and your car was close to his it must be a 10-second car. right?


I never asked you to believe me.

 
quote


quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

Just youtube it... The twinturbo (aka TTGT) car that runs mid 8's has THE SAME trans that is sitting in my grand prix in the front yard. The only mod he had greater than me was a little different billet torque converter. The trans is just a normal rebuild with stock axles, a stock diff, and a off the shelf performance rebuild. Big dollar items include a 300m input shaft and a 1inch GMR drive chain.


What?!?! you have just contradicted yourself in the same sentence!
The SAME trans but an "off the shelf performance rebuild, 300m input shaft and a 1 inch chain. So it's NOT the same, It's been modded!
Normal rebuild = Off the shelf performance rebuild ????????


I really have no idea what you are talking about here. I screwed up a bit when I said "normal" and "performance" in the same sentence, but what I had meant was they were nothing that joe blow's trans shop wouldnt do in a "normal performance rebuild", plus hardparts. Both the transmission in my grand prix, and the one in the TTGT were built by the same person using the same parts... It is a normal trans that can be purchased for a moderate cost, and daily driven.



 
quote

quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

I have had nothing but good luck building 282 getrag setups.. The only one I have personally seen broken was sorta ragged out, as well as matt hawkins turbo setup that broke 2nd gear. if you dont want to build one or find a fresh one, go grab a cavi getrag 287, bolt it up, and make a few mounts/shift links for it. You will then enjoy a better slave cyl setup, a fresh/larger box/diff, and some seemingly unbreakable gears.


Weren't you the one who was saying manual transaxles always break? And didn't you post:


quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
I have preached the woahs of the manuals for the entire time I have been a part of this forum,


In your "getrag failure" thread?? And now they are good????
Finally, A getrag 282 isn't "known to handle 500 + whp". Some have built some and cryo'd them to handle higher power, But they are not "known" to handle that power.



The one that was broke, was driver error (clearly said why in both this and the other thread), and it was a older transmission with many miles on it (also said that in this thread). The tides have changed in the last 1.5+ years sense that thread anyway. I also did not build the one that was broken. Things were changed to my specifications AFTER the first getrag was broken, and who knew it woulda worked even with 2x the horsepower going to it.

 
quote

quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

i never once said that all stock parts will run 9's.
You didn't? Hmmm, maybe you should go back and read your post.


Way to take it out of context... I clearly said "add horsepower", after explaining how to make the transmissions work.

In terms of chassis, you are pretty much set up to go pretty fast on a stock body, simple as that. The "ability to make a fiero a dragster" is relitive to the fact that I never consider any car I build to be a "drag only" car. I daily drive every one of my cars to and from work every day... and a fiero can easily and cheaply hook up a great percentage of the max power I can make. I dont know many cars that can run low 11's one day, then still hook on the way home on the same set of cheap worn out drag radials.
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theBDub
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Report this Post05-13-2010 09:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kwagner:


Do you mean this?
Unfortunately, most of the pics are gone now, but some on page 4 still work.


That might be it! If I could see the pics I'd be able to tell you for sure, but it was that same set up!

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Hulki U. My-BFF
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Report this Post05-13-2010 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Hulki U. My-BFFClick Here to Email Hulki U. My-BFFSend a Private Message to Hulki U. My-BFFDirect Link to This Post
Holy **** , it's a cross between Paul Walker and Shaun Hammit.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonDirect Link to This Post
I have a bored SBC started life as a 1972 4 bolt main block. I don't know what cam it has in it but I know it moves the Fiero along nicely. I have a Vette that the build swears is close to 400 HP at the crank and the Fiero is not only quicker its more fun to drive. (The Vette is also fun)
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Report this Post05-13-2010 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theBDubSend a Private Message to theBDubDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

I'd like to see him go go go, with no money limit, custom make a ton of stuff. Make the engine light, all aluminum. Seems the trans is what is holding most folks back. I mean slot of folks here are Ferrari fans, make a Fiero that can whip the Ferrari's behind. Why not?

fastest one I rode in so far is Tina's with the 383 chevy, nothing near where you want to go to I would imagine. I don't know the HP, but it was pretty fast. One thing to rember and maybe that is why some folks don't like the idea, is

don't loose handling just to gain sraight line power.

Make it a fun fast sportscar that you can street drive!

my 2 cents into your pile of money



Hey thanks for the post and your advice! I think I just skimmed over this post last time I saw it.

That's basically what I'm saying. No limitations, do ANYTHING. I like where your head is.
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Report this Post05-13-2010 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for weaselbeakClick Here to Email weaselbeakSend a Private Message to weaselbeakDirect Link to This Post
If you are serious about a V-8, figure out your preferred parts list and start writing checks......to Archie.
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