First of let me say none of the people on our team have owned a Fiero. The purchase of our Fiero was impulsive and of opportunity. I had driven 3.5 hours to pick up a parts car to fix my wife's car. Just when I had about made it there the guy texted me and said he had already sold the car. I called my friend and an empty trailer, 30 minutes on craigslist and $450 later and we ended up with our Fiero. It may have not been the best choice, but we finally have a car. Our teams goal for the first race is going to be conservative (finish the race!)

I've read all the threads concerning fiero's and the lemons race. They have a little info, but not much. We're looking for info that experienced fiero guru's have. What are common problems that could end the race early for us, but would have been easy to fix before hand. We'd also like info on cheap brake upgrades if there are any (installing rotors/calipers from another car?) Also, any general advice is greatly appreciated.

Our team has some decent skills and equipment. Between us all we have access to lathes, mills, welder's (DC tig &mig), plasma cutters, tubing benders, notchers, 2 post lifts, etc...
What we're working with:

1985 Fiero GT 2.8l with the 4 speed 120,xxx miles

Guy we bought if from said the guy before him had rebuilt it 6,000 miles ago. Who knows...

Was driven onto the trailer, but wouldn't idle well. Once we got it back we figured out the IAC was garbage. We have one on order, but we duct taped over the port for the moment and it will idle, but very richly.

We've already started tearing it apart in order to make it lighter. We're making the effort to pull anything that looks "valuable" carefully in hopes that it could sell for a small amount. If anyone needs anything let us know.

We could use a shifter. The car had sat in someone's lot for a while where kids broke out the windshield. The shifter is rusty and some of the detent springs are rusted solid. We may just cut it apart and rebuild it...

I'm missing a whole bunch of info, but I'll add it soon. I'll also get some pics up. Thanks for putting up with us! - Doug

I would say that stainless steel brake lines from the fiero store are a good investment, but may be pricy. At least replace all the lines with new. I've popped lines I think 3 times on two fieros. My latest fiero now sports all new ss lines. Replacing the brake hoses would be good too. I had one collapse on me casusing some interesting rear brake issues. I don't know how well the 4 speed clutch cylinder is, but there is a thread out there about replacing the single seals on the piston with dual seals from an MR2 I believe. Or just buy a new cylinder from Rodney Dickman. Keep your ICM cool, I know those are a failing point on the V6's (though I have never owned a V6). Also, check the lever arm on the clutch (what the slave cyl. pushes on). If it's stamped metal and not cast, check it for cracks. I had one snap on me and it wasn't fun. Clean all your grounds and if you feel like it add a few more.

Good luck.

Welcome to the madness and very important POST PICS !!!

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Shaved Lambo Doors
http://www.blackwidowfiero.com

sounds fun!!
we will need more info on "what they allow"
really just get the thing running well. or let us know what it is doing and we'll help fix it.

Next time you are in Austin, let me know and I will turn ya on to what a 3800supercharged Fiero can do!!

Welcome. Many of us here respect your team's madness.

Check out the Mall section. Many, many parts to be bought and sold there.

Definately ask questions. The more info the better. There are some really bright folks in the Technical section. There is also a Search function in the upper right hand side off the main forums page.

I have read through a bunch of Lemons atricles in the past. Aren't you only allowed $2010 to compete? Just curious, as this may help you to get the right parts for the money.

The Fiero is actually a pretty good handeling machine when the right parts are thrown into the mix. I will be watching this thread. Stuff like this is just cool. I wish your team luck, and I hope that I am able to help out along the way.

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I understand there's a spending limit, but it does not include safety equipment. So I suggest you get the best safety equipment, including the stainless brake lines mentioned previously, if brakes are included as safety equipment. Also (if brakes are included), do the Grand Am upgrade on all 4 wheels. If you need a parking brake, use 85 Seville calipers on the back. I have this combo on my 86 SE, and it works great.
You can reduce weight by removing the door beams. That would lessen safety, but if you're going to put a roll cage in it, the door beams might not matter.

Contact jstricker here on the forum. Although not in a Fiero, he's run several Lemons events, and has a lot of experience with Fieros in a race setting.

Wow, thanks for the positive feedback!

$500.00 is the spending limit including the purchase of the car excluding safety items (I'll get to those in a second). You can also sell items off the car to make back money. Most people try to stay around the $500 mark, but it's obvious they don't. I think most people usually get around the $1000 mark.

Here is what is not included in the $500.00 limit:

• Wheels, tires, wheel bearings, and brake components
• Exhaust systems downstream of the header/exhaust manifold (NOTE: Turbos and related components are NOT exempt from the $500 limit. Nice try.)
• Windshields and wipers. (Stock windshields, true Lexan, or circle-track mesh are acceptable; non-Lexan plastic is not acceptable.)
• Driver comfort & information (steering wheel, shifter, gauges, pedals, cool suits, vents, heaters, radio)
• All fuel hoses, fuel fittings, fuel filters, and related mounts
• All fuel-system components upstream of the fuel pump, including tanks/cells, mounts, fillers, vents, etc. (NOTE: Fuel pumps, carburetors, injection pumps, computers, and individual injectors are NOT exempt from the $500 limit.)
We haven’t spent a whole lot of time with the car yet, so not much is known. We’re going to start investigating things more seriously tomorrow night.

Anyone have link for the Grand Am brake upgrade? We won’t skimp on the brakes, hoses, or any other safety equipment.

I’ll definitely check out the mall. Thanks

I’ll also definitely get some pics up tonight so ya’ll can have a good laugh!

[This message has been edited by Lemons2010 (edited 02-02-2010).]

My advice:

-completely replace ALL components of the brake and cooling systems. master cylinder, lines, hoses, calipers, pads, rotors, and front bearings. Grand Am upgrade brakes will be cheaper to purchase than original Fiero brake parts, and perform better, with less fade.

-replace the ignition module and coil with AC DELCO units, and rebuild/replace the distributor, especially the pickup coil and the O-ring. The coil and module are the #1 causes of failure on the 2.8L engines, and the aftermarket units are notorious for failing within a week of purchase.

-speaking of cooling systems, make sure the cooling tubes under the car are not crushed, and DO NOT use a jack on them. This will crush them, and inhibit the flow of coolant, causing the car to overheat

-replace all vacuum lines, and the EGR tube and valve.

-check compression on all 6 cylinders, and replace ALL SIX plugs. Don't ***** about the front ones, just do it. Use AC Delco plugs, R42TS, gap is 0.045

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1984 Fiero SE

Replace the rear wheel bearings. The original equipment ones in my Fiero

didn't put up with too many shenanigans before they went all "GRRRARRR GRAAAR GRRRAARRRR WOBBLE WOBBLE" on me.

I haven't Lemons raced it, but it has been run in TSD Rallies, Rallycrosses, Autocrosses, and most recently, wheel-to-wheel ice racing with M.I.R.A.


There's a wiring bulkhead roughly behind the gas pedal. You'll pretty much have to lay on your back with your head under the dash to see it well. Going through this bulkhead is a green wire with a white stripe. This wire controls the radiator fan relay. Providing a ground path to the green/white stripe wire will turn the radiator fan relay on (unless your car is otherwise broken). This is normally done by a coolant temp switch near the engine thermostat.

If you splice a wire in, that has a switch to ground, you can have a manual override for running the radiator fan all the time.


The little blue bottles of STP additive are going to be your friend. I don't buy any of that crap about restoring engine health, but it does seem to have a lot of that ZDDP anti-scuff stuff that helps overheated engines live longer. I had one engine overheat til seized 3 times and live to tell about because of the stuff.


Good call on the brake upgrades. You'll smoke the hell out of the factory brakes in just a few minutes. The GA brakes are vented, so at least they're a start.

By request...

[This message has been edited by Lemons2010 (edited 02-02-2010).]

Man, I wish I had a shop like that!! Nice!

quote Originally posted by mattwa: Man, I wish I had a shop like that!! Nice!

Not my shop... It's half of the teams employer's shop!

quote Originally posted by Lemons2010: Not my shop... It's half of the teams employer's shop!

Still looks really nice.

Yes, I agree with upgrading the brakes, the stock ones aren't too good for even daily driving, so they really won't hold for racing.
You maybe can remove 100-200 pounds with the interior and radio etc, but the Fiero space frame is still going to be very heavy. Each door is 75 pounds each!

Which lemons event are you planning on competing in? You may have posted it but I skimmed your posts.
We have a car and engine for our lemons car, but that's as far as we've gotten

The GT 1/4 windows if they are not damaged would be worth something, not alot, but something, as would the emblems that say GT. I currently need a Front GT nose emblem.

The Sunroof is heavy, remove it, and sell it, and the rest of the top if you are able. Most members will trade you for a non sunroof top, but it's not needed for anything safety wise.

Do the Grand Am Brake upgrade, it's fairly cheap, and ads good stopping power. The Fiero Store gives store credit for brake parts, you won't get cash, but that could be a good thing.

Interior pictures would help so we know what you got to work with.

I notice the headlights are down, does this mean the lights go up and down on their own? If so they are worth something.

Obtain another sway bar and add it to the rear for more stability.

Brad

[This message has been edited by twofatguys (edited 02-03-2010).]

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Do the Grand Am Brake upgrade, it's fairly cheap, and ads good stopping power. The Fiero Store gives store credit for brake parts, you won't get cash, but that could be a good thing.

DO the best you can afford, The brakes do not count against the $500 budget.

I just thought,

Cut out the hood behind the radiator for cooling, and in front of the trunk on the decklid (also for cooling).

You can remove the trunk in the rear to lose some weight, and the trunk in the front to change the airflow some.

You want as much air as possible to go past those points.


Does the car have rear defrost? and when can we see those interior pictures

I could use some power window switches that are not torn up.

Brad

Since the windshield is out, now is the perfect time to replace the sunroof top with a hardtop one, rip out all the air conditioning parts (WARNING! stock, turning on the AC turns on the radiator fan. May need to rewire the fan).

WORKING headlight setup would be worth some money. The 84-86 headlight motors are horrible. For the race, you can just have the mechanisms stuck in the up position, maybe fabricate a little bracket to replace the motor.

Oh, and get a BIG aluminum radiator. I've seen 3-row alminum radiators on ebay for $180, probably worth the expense in a 24 hours racer. Heat is the biggest enemy of these cars (well that and rust).

quote Originally posted by Lemons2010: Anyone have link for the Grand Am brake upgrade? We won’t skimp on the brakes, hoses, or any other safety equipment.

For the front brakes, order the Fiero Store's "vented brake" upgrade. It contains everything you need to do the Grand Am brakes on front. For the rear, if you want an e-brake and a balanced braking system, see this page. If you put Grand Am front calipers on both front and rear, your brakes will be biased too heavily in the rear. If you use the Seville calipers, which have a slightly smaller piston than the Grand Am front calipers, your brakes will be balanced.
Toward the end of that link is how I personally did my Seville calipers. I think it's easier than the other solutions, because your e-brake cables wind up in the normal position.

[This message has been edited by TopNotch (edited 02-03-2010).]

you might have missed the part where we work in a shop with a lathe, mill, plasma, etc... I'll turn down the bearing hub myself on the front.

For the rear can you just put in an adjustable proportioning valve to turn down the rear? This is common in offroading where 4 wheel disc's aren't the norm stock.

We don't care about the e-brake... We want decent brakes, but we don't want to go broke doing it. I think one guy on our team found a corvette brake swap. We might look into that also if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[This message has been edited by Lemons2010 (edited 02-03-2010).]

You can't do a corvette brake upgrade with 14" wheels. Do the rules allow new wheels?

quote Originally posted by Lemons2010: you might have missed the part where we work in a shop with a lathe, mill, plasma, etc... I'll turn down the bearing hub myself on the front. For the rear can you just put in an adjustable proportioning valve to turn down the rear? This is common in offroading where 4 wheel disc's aren't the norm stock. We don't care about the e-brake... We want decent brakes, but we don't want to go broke doing it. I think one guy on our team found a corvette brake swap. We might look into that also if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

Corvette swap would be the best performance swap, but you'd need new wheels and tires. The Grand Am setup fits behind the stock 14" wheels. All the Corvette swap kits I've seen are at least $1500ish too.

cool cool! and the car looks pretty hot, too. i love the Lemans race (read the car and driver lemans fiero article a few weeks ago.) and it's always cool to see a fiero.

is there going to be tv coverage, or something? that would be cool.

good luck, guys. i'll be following. :]

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"Be not led astray, bretheren beloved..." -James 1:16.


Thanks, Danyel, for the graphic.

Did you say what your theme is? Are you already accepted? I heard not everyone gets into Lemons (waiting list)

Not everyone is accepted... We don't have a theme yet, but the race we're entering is in sept., so we have some time.

We're kinda at a stand still with the brakes at the moment. I think we're just going to throw some new pads on the calipers just to get it running. We'll eventually either do the grand am, or the corvette brakes. We just have to decide on what rims, tires, etc... we're going to do.

By the way, anyone know if 94 grand prix brakes will work? I just happen to have one of those in the driveway that's wrecked... It's 4 wheel disc.

Well, to complicate things even more, there's also the LeBaron brake upgrade. There are threads about it on this forum.

Polyurethane suspension all around and cut the coils (if allowed). There's also a brake booster replacement thread that is worth finding (too lazy to do it for ya). Gut the interior - I'm sure you gotta leave the dash and door panels in - no biggie. Alignment is a big, big deal in Fieros. A fiero eats front tires in competitive racing. Heck, I chew mine up just daily driving it, and I'm picky about alignment and all. The rear tie rods and front lower ball joints should be replaced most definately. Get them from Rodney dickman.

Weight reduction, get rid of much glass as you can. Since your putting in a cage, you can really lighten the doors by removing the crash beams. Cut out the trunk, including the upper horizontal brace. Weld one back that is part of the cage off the rear diagonals that pick up the strut towers. Make it fit over the engine as close to the tower centers as possible.

Is this one at MSR?

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger

Yes, it's the one at MSR, but we're not doing the one in Feb. We may go to spectate though.

We are lightening the car as much as possible. I'll take pics of the car this weekend to show you how much we've removed. We're also just leaving the skins of the doors and making the cage extend into the empty door area. We also plan to do what you said regarding the cage and the rear strut towers.

We'll definitely take the advice with the alignment and replacing bushings/ball joints.

Before the black #3 car, the "GOODWRENCH" race cars were a pair of fiero's. Black with silver lowers, car #'s 50 and 55. To remove the sunroof with out braking the "A" piller I just cut across the roof just behind the front top bolts on a non sunroof car and than lay that peice on the sun roof car, scribe a "cut line" and cut the old sunroof part of the roof off. With the rear roof top bolts out you can change the peice. bolt it all back down, glass it back together. Try to get a new roof off ( in one peice ) before you take yours off. I think I have the peice you need to do it that way in the back yard.

Sounds like fun.

Vent the hoods! If you look under the front hood there is a spot right behind the radiator, it looks like a D cut it out and install some screen. Then on the back there is a square right over the intake, cut it out and screen it.
Both of these mods will help cool your engine.
The one in the front will help air move from the back of the radiator out of the hood instead of being forced under the car.
The one in the back will let hot air out of the back of the car, under normal driving conditions it wouldn't be needed but for your race I would do it.

I replaced the back brakes on my GT with grand am brakes, 97 front calipers and rotors. While you are fixing/replacing the wheel bearings remove the dust shield on the inside, it will help keep the brakes cool by allowing more air on them.

If you remove the heater don't run the car with a closed thermostat, you need some water moving. Drill a couple 1/8 holes in it.

Check all of the hoses, if they even look suspicious change them.

The stock air cleaner is probably fine for what your doing, you should be ok just replacing it with a new one.

Fuel pump, Do not let it get hot. Drive the car around until it has about 1/8 of a tank of gas, if it makes a racket I would replace it. Better to do it now than on race day.

You said its running rich, it could be a leaky injector. If you have the money get them cleaned and checked for flow.

Take lots of pictures!

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Replace the rear wheel bearings. The original equipment ones in my Fiero didn't put up with too many shenanigans before they went all "GRRRARRR GRAAAR GRRRAARRRR WOBBLE WOBBLE" on me. I haven't Lemons raced it, but it has been run in TSD Rallies, Rallycrosses, Autocrosses, and most recently, wheel-to-wheel ice racing with M.I.R.A. There's a wiring bulkhead roughly behind the gas pedal. You'll pretty much have to lay on your back with your head under the dash to see it well. Going through this bulkhead is a green wire with a white stripe. This wire controls the radiator fan relay. Providing a ground path to the green/white stripe wire will turn the radiator fan relay on (unless your car is otherwise broken). This is normally done by a coolant temp switch near the engine thermostat. If you splice a wire in, that has a switch to ground, you can have a manual override for running the radiator fan all the time. The little blue bottles of STP additive are going to be your friend. I don't buy any of that crap about restoring engine health, but it does seem to have a lot of that ZDDP anti-scuff stuff that helps overheated engines live longer. I had one engine overheat til seized 3 times and live to tell about because of the stuff. Good call on the brake upgrades. You'll smoke the hell out of the factory brakes in just a few minutes. The GA brakes are vented, so at least they're a start.

Are you going to the Turk Lake Ice race this weekend and next? Furrin Group is running it. My son an engineer MSU grad last year wants to get in to rallying.

[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 02-05-2010).]

Gonna try and be there 2 Fieros strong on 2/7.

Woulda been there today but I was running a M.I.R.A. Event.

what the...cant believe I missed out on an 85 GT w/4speed in Texas...im always on craigslist too!
Good luck!

quote Originally posted by Haggerty: what the...cant believe I missed out on an 85 GT w/4speed in Texas...im always on craigslist too! Good luck!

We could have nailed this thing within a few hours of the listing being posted. It was a pretty random night...

leave the drivers side door gard beam in it. Or let somebody you don't like drive it.

It would be kinda cool to run with no body skins on under a "naked" or "skeletal" theme. There's not many cars that could do that. Plus as a theme it may get you picked over some others.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock
white 88 notchie, 4 banger