I was looking around on the net for small size mufflers and located this place in Canada. They build custom mufflers. They are building me an oval muffler 4.5"thick X 11" tall X 14.75" long in their performance series,"Stormer", Price was $71.00 USD, shipping to Texas (est) $23.00.

While looking for a muffler for my 4.9 swap I was overwhelmed by the descriptions and such that the muffler makers use. They all used different terms to describe the same thing. Also finding a small muffler that would fit in the Fiero muffler "Hole" added another factor. I wanted 2.5" coming in, and duel 2.5"s
coming out. This company made this very easy and reasonable priced. If you are planning a swap, check them out.

This is also the company that builds some of the mufflers that The Fiero Store sells.

http://www.shuttleworthexha...stems.com/index.html

I am putting this out for information for members thinking about a engine swap. I have no connections to these fokes other than the muffler I just ordered from them.
Joe Crawford
Texas

The Flowtech Afterburner mullfer is smaller 4"x10"x13" http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BIG-50363FLT/



------------------

World of Wheels Winners
My 3.4L S/C 87 GT
& Super Duty 4 Indy

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-13-2009).]

.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-02-2010).]

The Flowtech Afterburner is supposed to be a bit noisey running down the highway at 2K rpm. That is why I didnt get one of those. The 80 series flowmaster is supposed to be a good one for the 4.9 swap. I have read every thread I could find here about muffler installs. I am hoping this will be what I am looking for.
Joe

Jose would you have any pictures of your set up? A video or sound clip would be great.

I don't have the engine in the car right now. When I had it running I had the mufffler off of the pipe . I wanted to hear it without the muffler. I did slide it up on the pipe for a 'peek' of how it would sound, It was nice an in the mid range for tone.
I will be following this system someone here used

quote Originally posted by josef644: I will be following this system someone here used

I like my trunk too much to do this. I have my muffler in the stock location.

agreed

Please do not cut the trunk, keep it neat and simple.



Jack

[This message has been edited by J Gunsett (edited 01-28-2010).]

Another timely thread - I was just roaming around the interet looking for exhaust parts. I want to keep it in the stock location. Looks like the Afterburner or flowmaster is the best bet.

Pat

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I like my trunk too much to do this. I have my muffler in the stock location.

I have purchased a muffler from Shuttleworth in Canada. I have paid for it and have it here. I also have purchased the cone style catalytic converter. When it is all put togeather it's just to large to fit in the allowed space. Trunk is gone as of this morning. I bought this stuff, and so I will use it. I don't have more money to spend on exhaust parts right now. I am thinking I might just have a 1/2 sized trunk.

quote Originally posted by josef644: The Flowtech Afterburner is supposed to be a bit noisey running down the highway at 2K rpm. That is why I didnt get one of those. The 80 series flowmaster is supposed to be a good one for the 4.9 swap. I have read every thread I could find here about muffler installs. I am hoping this will be what I am looking for. Joe

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 01-28-2010).]

It's all a matter of personal preference. I have no problems losing the bottom half of the trunk myself, I'd rather have the flat floor anyway and it really doesn't seem to cause me any issues with losing carrying capacity (although I know as much won't fit in there).

Personally, unless you go with a "bullet" style muffler, It would be very hard to get a 2.5" exhaust in that space on a 4.9 without cutting the trunk, and the glasspacks are just too noisy for me.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I like my trunk too much to do this. I have my muffler in the stock location.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Personally, unless you go with a "bullet" style muffler, It would be very hard to get a 2.5" exhaust in that space on a 4.9 without cutting the trunk, and the glasspacks are just too noisy for me. John Stricker

What is a "bullet" style muffler? I have a bone stock muffler in the bone stock location.

These cars are already too small with limited storage for me to give up any of my trunk, but that's just me. Also, since I know it can be done without cutting the trunk it just seems like a hack to me to cut the trunk. But that's just me again.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-28-2010).]

quote Originally posted by katatak: Another timely thread - I was just roaming around the interet looking for exhaust parts. I want to keep it in the stock location. Looks like the Afterburner or flowmaster is the best bet. Pat

Pat....Al's Exhaust on Doniphan can build you exactly what you want....he did my 4.9 system.

On the 88's there is room for a FlowMaster 80 in the stock location (see pictures that josef644 posted for me), but I don't know if there is room on the pre-88's. It takes carefull measuring, and the clearances are tight, but there is room.

Thanks for posting the pics for me!

Joe Welch

Bullet=Glass Pack style.

You just made my point, though. A bone stock muffler is not a 2.5" inlet/outlet.

Now I agree with you, anything can be done, but there are other considerations as well. For instance, cutting the trunk makes things SO much easier to work on the exhaust, axles, etc. etc. My exhausts are all full mandrel bends and I challenge you or anyone else to get a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust out of a 4.9L Caddy swap and not cut the trunk (using a stock style muffler). Can that be done? Probably. Put enough time, money, and blood into anything and it can be done. To you it would be worth it. To me, it's not. Different strokes.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jscott1: What is a "bullet" style muffler? I have a bone stock muffler in the bone stock location. These cars are already too small with limited storage for me to give up any of my trunk, but that's just me. Also, since I know it can be done without cutting the trunk it just seems like a hack to me to cut the trunk. But that's just me again.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: You just made my point, though. A bone stock muffler is not a 2.5" inlet/outlet. ... I challenge you or anyone else to get a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust out of a 4.9L Caddy swap and not cut the trunk (using a stock style muffler). John Stricker

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you. If a free flowing exhaust is more important than the trunk, by all means cut away at the trunk. Since I don't drag race my car I don't care if I have the stock crush bent exhaust.

Now having said that, once my car becomes smog exempt, and if I come into some money I might redo the exhaust with 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust. But even then I promise you I still won't cut the trunk and I would find a way to make it fit.

.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-02-2010).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Now having said that, once my car becomes smog exempt, and if I come into some money I might redo the exhaust with 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust. But even then I promise you I still won't cut the trunk and I would find a way to make it fit.

I have 2 glass packs and a flowmaster single chamber in the stock location, I'm still working on it, I need to order some better bent pipe online.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: ...you mean like this? And yes there is lots of room for a Flowmaster 80 series (which is stock style) - of which I am considering installing this year. BTW >> the system as shown above took the exhaust shop 1/2 day to make up and it costed me $400 (that is Canadian dollars, so closer to US$300 at the time this was done) - but then this shop does a lot of custom exhaust for hot rodders, so they may have a bit more experience. All I did was take the car in, told them exactly how I wanted it - they gave me the options (muffler type, tips, etc) and I picked it up at the end of the day. If you need a cat, use stock 92-93 Deville manifolds, cap off the port on the trunk side, custom build y-pipe as in the stock 2.8, down to the cat in the stock location, and then out to a stock type muffler in stock location. It really is not that hard - people always look for the easy way out.

There isn't a Catalitic Converter there in your picture. They don't do the 'sniff' test or the 'Dyno' test here , but they do look at the exhaust , the converter, and eyeball the tires. A quick road test to check for "Check Engine Soon", "brakes" and end with setting the parking brake. Your exhaust would not pass inspection here in San Jacinto County, Texas

.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-02-2010).]

I am trying to avoid running a pipe between the firewall and the cradle as I want to run my AC hoses there. I am planning to build a custom heat shield to cover the whole front exhaust manifold.

I wanted to use the larger custom made muffler for the quiet effect that it will provide me. I don't want the 'droning' 'B17" sound driving down the highway at 70 MPH. I am 100 miles from anywhere here, even Houston. I'll take no headache over a small down sized trunk any day. I put up with wind noise with my 86 from the area of the sunroof. I am gonna change this car to a non sunroof car so I don't have that noise and bother again. I hated having to crank up the radio at highway speeds to hear it above the wind noise.

I will make someone a good deal on a sunroof accessories and its accompanying pieces

I don't want you to think I was banging your exhaust set up. It just would not be legal here as it is pictured.

quote Originally posted by Quad GT: Jose would you have any pictures of your set up? A video or sound clip would be great.

http://s10.photobucket.com/...w¤t=MOV01E.flv

Flowmaster 50 series with bullet cat. 2.5 in 2.5 out. Sounds mellow but is throaty when you put your foot into it.

[This message has been edited by Carrluvr (edited 01-29-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Carrluvr: http://s10.photobucket.com/...w¤t=MOV01E.flv Flowmaster 50 series with bullet cat. 2.5 in 2.5 out. Sounds mellow but is throaty when you put your foot into it.

I have used your exhaust picture set up a bunch of times. I had forgotten who it belonged to.

Joe

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: If you need a cat, use stock 92-93 Deville manifolds, cap off the port on the trunk side, custom build y-pipe as in the stock 2.8, down to the cat in the stock location, and then out to a stock type muffler in stock location. It really is not that hard - people always look for the easy way out.

That is how my exhaust is done.




BTW in Houston they do the ASM test on the dyno, but I've never had anyone even bother to look and see if I have a CAT, (even though I do).

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 01-29-2010).]

quote Originally posted by josef644: I have used your exhaust picture set up a bunch of times. I had forgotten who it belonged to. Joe

Joe it is a pretty clean setup. One issue with it is the muffler hangs down lowe than the stock
placement because I have that cat. When it gets a little warmer in my garage (16*)
I am going to rework and raise it some. But the sound is great with no harmonics
that I have found so far. Highway speeds are very mellow as well.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: QUOTEOriginally posted by jstricker: My exhausts are all full mandrel bends and I challenge you or anyone else to get a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust out of a 4.9L Caddy swap and not cut the trunk (using a stock style muffler). /QUOTE ...you mean like this? And yes there is lots of room for a Flowmaster 80 series (which is stock style) - of which I am considering installing this year.

That is neither mandrel bent nor a stock style muffler.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 01-30-2010).]

.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 02-02-2010).]

My statement was 100% accurate.

I, for one, fully agree with you in that people should FULLY READ POSTS before hitting the reply button. That is why I did, in fact, read your entire post. Please don't insult my intelligence by insinuating that I read the forum as if it's a coloring book.

My point is that jstricker gave a specific set of criteria to meet his "challenge", and you offered up your proof that fully failed to meet it. I have no doubts that it can be done, and maybe even for a reasonable amount of money, and probably in just the way that you described. However, if you're going to prove a point, you actually need to have proof.

I'm not one to get in internet pissing matches, just calling it like I see it. We should be able to agree on that. Now go have fun driving that rumbly V8 Fiero! I don't even have my Fiero back yet, but wish I did!

I started this thread August 13,2009 to discuss mufflers that will fit easily and be a mellow tone at 70 MPH. I wanted to let the Forum know about Shuttelwoth Exhaust in Canada and share their ability to build a 'Custom' built muffler. I wanted 2.5" in and outs. They filled the bill for me very nicely. I had planned on building it as Carrluvr did his. This just did not work out. I removed the trunk. My choice. I do not have $300.00 to spend on a 'Custom' shop built system, as some have posted on this Forum about their builds. I removed my trunk so I could fit my muffler and catalytic converter in the smallest space as was necessary, and for as little as possible being spent on the build. I do not work at NASA as does jscott1, and Johnathan that isn't a put down. I just have to work with a much smaller budget than other do. On the "Cheap' so to speak

This thread died and was cold as Oklahoma is today. On the 28th of this month Quad GT wanted to know if I had a clip of the sound.

It has turned sour from there. Micky_Moose I want to apologise again if I offended you. There was no intent by me to do so. You are always free to post as you feel like in any thread I start. I value your opinion and appreciate all your assistance during this swap.

Please everyone tone it down and respect everyone's freedom to state their thoughts and experiences.

Joe Crawford

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 01-30-2010).]

quote Originally posted by josef644: This thread died and was cold as Oklahoma is today. Please everyone tone it down and respect everyone's freedom to state their thoughts and experiences. Joe Crawford

Sorry I didn't realize this was a dead thread. I respect everyone's choice to build their Fiero the way they like. I was just posting to let people know that if they want a 4.9 with a full exhaust they don't have to cut the trunk.

Since I'm running basically a stock exhaust mine is very quiet. It has that V8 rumble of course, but at idle I think it purrs quieter than a 2.8. I gets louder when you rev it of course, but since I have the 6 speed it's pretty quiet on the highway too.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Sorry I didn't realize this was a dead thread. .

Wasn't dead, just cold. No posting from Aug 13th untill Jan 28th

I like to do the down and under exhaust using 2 Eldorado front manifolds



Engine from the front



From the back.

I find that the down and under exhaust routing cleans up the engine bay and reduces the heat in the engine bay.

Joe Sokol

I am a fan of the down and under routing also, but I think it is only practical if you can get by with out a cat.

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Well you are correct on the stock style muffler, but again If you bothered to read my entire post I state that a Flowmaster 80 will fit (which is like stock style). Perhapes I should just post line pictures without text - some people 'read' the forum like they are reading a coloring book. Mandrel - and yes you are correct the parts after the muffler are not - I can't find my pictures of the front side and under cradle tubing (which clearly shows they are mandrel bent. Apparently something happened to the bender before he could finish and I was given the option to wait till they had it repaired or they finish it up that day with crushed pipe (well I want to drive the car so opted for the crushed tubing). The point being - there is enough and lots of room to run exhaust in the stock location (even with a/c) without cutting the trunk. IF you want to cut the trunk, that is fine BUT DON'T SAY there is no way around it.

I don't believe I or anyone else said "there is no way around it". What I posted was:

quote Personally, unless you go with a "bullet" style muffler, It would be very hard to get a 2.5" exhaust in that space on a 4.9 without cutting the trunk, and the glasspacks are just too noisy for me.

and:

quote My exhausts are all full mandrel bends and I challenge you or anyone else to get a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust out of a 4.9L Caddy swap and not cut the trunk (using a stock style muffler). Can that be done? Probably. Put enough time, money, and blood into anything and it can be done. To you it would be worth it. To me, it's not. Different strokes.

I thought I was pretty clear in saying that while it's possible, I've never seen it and it would be tough to do, too much trouble for a car of mine. That's my opinion. I understand that to Jonathan it's that storage space is more important and that's cool too, it's just not to me and by your pictures, you haven't done it yet either. In the picture, it's not a stock style muffler, it's not mandrel bent, and the outlet pipe (before it splits at the "y") is not 2.5". There's nothing wrong with your exhaust as long as you're happy with it, but it doesn't meet the conditions I placed in my post.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jstricker: My exhausts are all full mandrel bends and I challenge you or anyone else to get a 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust out of a 4.9L Caddy swap and not cut the trunk (using a stock style muffler). Can that be done? Probably. John Stricker

I did it. Actually not just a stock "style" muffler but an actual stock V6 muffler. Enlarging the inlet pipe is quite easy to do. The two outlet pipes are large enough as is and don't need to be changed (of course you can there also). Fitment on pre-88's is fine. With an 88 cradle though, there is not quite enough room for a 2.5" pipe to pass under the oilpan without trimming back the mount bracket, mainly because of the size of the 4.9 oilpan. I have an 88 cradle swap (including stock 88 rear sway bar), wanted to keep the whole trunk, using a manual transmission, and needed to install a cat. The sway bar limits the muffler size to stock size only (nothing larger fits). The manifolds I used are the stainless 86 Deville versions and one has been heavily modified to remove the center outlet. It could have been capped also without any trouble. Routing is same as stock fiero.

EDIT: All stock V6 hangers and springs are also retained and all mandrel bent pipe is used. I guess you could say a built a "Y" pipe tough that would not be entirely accurate. I actually used a dual 2" inlet, single 2.5" outlet cat and ran single pipes from each manifold to it. A custom "Y" pipe would fit fine also. The cat comes off of a 4.9l straight 6 Ford F150 and several dodge trucks. Just adding the rest of the info.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 02-01-2010).]

Actually, no you didn't.

You perhaps COULD have done it (which wouldn't surprise me) but by your own post you DIDN'T do it since you didn't have room for the 2.5" "to pass under the oilpan" and you're using 2" outlets, if I read your post correctly.

There's no doubt it could be done, physically. It would be a royal PITA to work on, especially in an '88. That's my point, it's a trade off. If you want the full trunk badly enough, and want to spend the time making it all fit and then dealing with the issues of accesibility later, then that's fine. Personally, to me, the bottom of that trunk isn't worth it.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: I did it. Actually not just a stock "style" muffler but an actual stock V6 muffler. Enlarging the inlet pipe is quite easy to do. The two outlet pipes are large enough as is and don't need to be changed (of course you can there also). Fitment on pre-88's is fine. With an 88 cradle though, there is not quite enough room for a 2.5" pipe to pass under the oilpan without trimming back the mount bracket, mainly because of the size of the 4.9 oilpan. I have an 88 cradle swap (including stock 88 rear sway bar), wanted to keep the whole trunk, using a manual transmission, and needed to install a cat. The sway bar limits the muffler size to stock size only (nothing larger fits). The manifolds I used are the stainless 86 Deville versions and one has been heavily modified to remove the center outlet. It could have been capped also without any trouble. Routing is same as stock fiero. EDIT: All stock V6 hangers and springs are also retained and all mandrel bent pipe is used. I guess you could say a built a "Y" pipe tough that would not be entirely accurate. I actually used a dual 2" inlet, single 2.5" outlet cat and ran single pipes from each manifold to it. A custom "Y" pipe would fit fine also. The cat comes off of a 4.9l straight 6 Ford F150 and several dodge trucks. Just adding the rest of the info.

Whatever, believe what you want. The stock caddy crossover is a 1 3/4" OD. Using more then 2" for one bank of cylinders or dual outlets is useless and actually reduces exhaust velosity and scavenging. A 2.5" pipe fits next to the oil pan on 84-87, no modification required. As usual, for the 88's, there is a bit more work to make it fit, but it does fit. And I said it there is not quite enough room to fit the 2.5" pipe on the 88's WITHOUT TRIMMING THE MOUNT BRACKET. The way my 4.9 mounts there is a unused space of 1.25" on that bracket. That 1.25" was trimmed and welded back on vertically to strengthen the bracket back up. Then the 2.5" pipe fit good. So yes, I did do it, and it was simple.

The trunk is all about preferance. I preferred to keep my trunk, many don't. Keep it, lose it, who cares, just do whats right for you and your situation. This is an age old battle here on this forum and I'm not getting into it again.

But just out of curosity... If you had a flat on the road with someone in the passenger seat and needed to put on the spare. Where would you put your wheel/tire? I always wondered what people without trunks did for that!?

I run oversize tires, they won't fit in there anyway.

I run my exhausts with the over the tranny crossover. From there I go 2 1/2 because it's a single pipe out. If you do the math on 2- 1.75" pipes coming into a common pipe you'll find that comes to 2.49" diameter to keep an equivalent area.

I agree with you, keep it, or not, I'm not arguing if you should run 2 1/2" exhaust, or if it's necessary. I just said that it's hard to do a 2.5" exhaust and keep the trunk. Not impossible, but difficult.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Whatever, believe what you want. The stock caddy crossover is a 1 3/4" OD. Using more then 2" for one bank of cylinders or dual outlets is useless and actually reduces exhaust velosity and scavenging. A 2.5" pipe fits next to the oil pan on 84-87, no modification required. As usual, for the 88's, there is a bit more work to make it fit, but it does fit. And I said it there is not quite enough room to fit the 2.5" pipe on the 88's WITHOUT TRIMMING THE MOUNT BRACKET. The way my 4.9 mounts there is a unused space of 1.25" on that bracket. That 1.25" was trimmed and welded back on vertically to strengthen the bracket back up. Then the 2.5" pipe fit good. So yes, I did do it, and it was simple. The trunk is all about preferance. I preferred to keep my trunk, many don't. Keep it, lose it, who cares, just do whats right for you and your situation. This is an age old battle here on this forum and I'm not getting into it again. But just out of curosity... If you had a flat on the road with someone in the passenger seat and needed to put on the spare. Where would you put your wheel/tire? I always wondered what people without trunks did for that!?