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What inspired you to but your fiero? by pontiackid86
Started on: 06-08-2009 10:23 AM
Replies: 76
Last post by: Mickey_Moose on 08-31-2010 05:56 PM
pontiackid86
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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
I know i had been looking for a 2 seater for a few years I knew about the fiero but it never corssed my mind as a choice because I never knew they had a V6 in them and only knew about the notch backs.
I wanted a 2 seater that wasent girly and underpowerd the MR2 poped into my head for a while but that i saw stay alive and that was my 1st time ever seeing jscotts fast back. And here 3 years later I finaly have one. Hell I used one of jscotts ideas with the aurora mirrors.
please tell your story.


i know i saw the title i meant buy

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 06-08-2009).]

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CenTexIndy
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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CenTexIndySend a Private Message to CenTexIndyDirect Link to This Post
I started driving when they were new. Saw one. Fell in love. Have had one ever since.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroboomClick Here to visit fieroboom's HomePageSend a Private Message to fieroboomDirect Link to This Post
I was 7 years old in '87 when I first saw a Fiero pass my house. I'm 29 now, and it's funny that I still remember that particular memory like it was yesterday. That's what inspired me to but my first Fiero... 12 Fieros ago...
-Paul

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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 86fakegtSend a Private Message to 86fakegtDirect Link to This Post
I grew up em one my parents bought a fully loaded 87 gt 5 speed new in late 86 and its got almost 200k still runs like a tank. i loved the look and the sound and i knew id have one someday ive had 2 before i even had my liscense and ill have plenty more when time and money allows
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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Welsh Mt GTSend a Private Message to Welsh Mt GTDirect Link to This Post
Went to a cruise night a few years ago and saw this real sharp red T-top and met the owner, a guy named Dave Horst - (Ski-Time).
After that, I got hooked and now own two red GT's.

Joe
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pontiackid86
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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Welsh Mt GT:

Went to a cruise night a few years ago and saw this real sharp red T-top and met the owner, a guy named Dave Horst - (Ski-Time).
After that, I got hooked and now own two red GT's.

Joe



I saw his a few weeks ago. beautiful car.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroFanatic13Send a Private Message to FieroFanatic13Direct Link to This Post
For me, it's that I fell in love with mid-engine exotics as a kid (early to mid 80's). The Ferrari 308, 512, 288 GTO and Testarossa. The Lamborghini Countach, and Silhouette. The DeTomaso Pantera. The BMW M1. The Delorean. As it turns out, I can't really afford any of THOSE cars. But I CAN afford a Fiero or a Toyota MR2, and I happen to like the looks of the Fiero better and that the body panels will never rust (one of the huge issues with keeping up older vehicles cosmetically). So, I own Fieros as my play cars.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Larryh86GTSend a Private Message to Larryh86GTDirect Link to This Post
I'm hoping you mean "buy" your fiero so here goes: When my son graduated from HS back in 1995 I told him I would buy him a car for graduation. Didn't have a great deal of money to spend. I kept an eye on the car ads in town and my son and I went out a number of times looking at what was offered but they all looked like the clunkers they were. One day my son found a 1984 Fiero 2M4 in the paper. Out we go and look at it. No plates on it and it wouldn't start but my son fell in love with it. Bought it and had it towed home. After about 2000.00 it was finally roadworthy. (Maybe having to tow it home initially should have warned me).
A couple years later my son is lifeguarding at a town pool. (Directly across the street from the town police headquarters). The Fiero was stolen from the parking lot. A couple of days go by and we get a call from the Buffalo police that the car was found on a side street in south Buffalo. It had caught on fire and the thieves had to abandon it. When they broke the ignition some wires shorted out under the dash and the resulting fire melted the dash, steering wheel, headliner, cracked the windshield and the entire interior compartment was covered in black soot. I had the car towed home and parked in the driveway. I called my mechanic buddy Scott and told him about the car wondering if it was a lost cause. (No fire insurance). He knew a shop owner that had an 85 Fiero that was heading to the scrapyard and I bought it for $300.00. (Sold the rims and tires off it for 100.00). With the help of Scott over the entire summer we pulled everything in the burnt compartment out down to just metal and swapped the 85 interior over. Dash, seats, headliner, carpet, consol, dash, steering column, all of it. Pulled the windshield off the 85 and had a glass company install that for 40.00. I also swapped the fenders, doors and quarter panels. The only thing we could not fix was the horn. Had to put a separate horn button on the dash. I then took it over to another friends house and he put a metalic green paint on it. It was looking pretty good.
So I saved one from the junkyard back in 1997. My son sold it 4 or 5 years later. Myself, I really liked the looks of the car and always wanted to have one myself. A couple of years ago I found my purple GT and fell in love with it instantly. And I let my son drive in ocassionaly. It brings a smile to his face also.
Larry

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Report this Post06-08-2009 11:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for IkesterSend a Private Message to IkesterDirect Link to This Post
I was in high school for most of the "development" of the P car. Spy photos and behind the scenes management stuff written in Popular Science and Popular Mechanics were followed like religion. I had the ads that featured the "street sign" theme hanging in my wall locker at high school. I graduated in 1985 from High school, and was obsessed with 2-seater AMC products (owned beautiful AMX's though!) until I came to the conclusion that they rusted on the assembly line. But I always loved the look and engineering of the Fiero. So a year ago, when a 31k 85 red GT crossed my path- I jumped on it and now wish I had done it waaaay sooner. BTW- I am a "notchie only" Fiero fan.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for whodeanieClick Here to visit whodeanie's HomePageSend a Private Message to whodeanieDirect Link to This Post
when I was 16 a friend had one and took me for a ride
then later I rediscovered them when I built a kit car with one.
and it has never stoped since.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierosoundDirect Link to This Post
I had always wanted a 2-seater car - grew up lusting after MGB's - but there weren't a lot of choices in the the late 80's. I bought my GT during the Gulf War because I needed something smaller that got better gas mileage than my fire-breathing V8 Chev Monza. I DIDN'T want a FWD 4-cylinder and that's pretty much all the imports had.

The Fiero fit the bill. The V6 felt pretty good for driving and I got a nearly new 2-year-old car (27,000kms /16,000 miles) for $9750 (about US$7500 at that time). BEST purchase I ever made!
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& My SD4 Indy

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Report this Post06-08-2009 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ShockWaveSend a Private Message to ShockWaveDirect Link to This Post
It kinda runs in the family...

My mom had an 86 gold coupe but sold it when I was 3 (kinda hard to take the family places in a 2-seater), and my dad drove one often when he worked security at a car dealer (claims it was a fastback with an Indy snorkel). A bunch of years later when I was 10 or something like that, we drove by a used car lot and she pointed out a rough-shape Gold 86 coupe in their lot and I begged her to go take a look at it. Fell in love with the design almost immediately. So less than a month after I turned 16 I brought home my Formula. Wanted something nobody else at school was going to have, let alone know about.

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Report this Post06-08-2009 12:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for greasemonke50613Send a Private Message to greasemonke50613Direct Link to This Post
well it was approx 10 years ago, when i was 10 myself my dad had just bought (what at the time we THOUGHT) an 84 2m5, and blew a hole in the side of the block on the duke on the way home, and the passion starts there. we got it towed home, went down to the local Chevy Dealership & ordered a crate duke for it, went back home and started pulling the blown duke out, to swap them. that was the 1st car dad allowed me to turn a wrench on, and i've wanted one ever since. bought an 86 last year, wrecked that one, found a PAIR for 750 (1 84 and a non-running 85) tax season this year and jumped on it.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 03:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for aeffertzSend a Private Message to aeffertzDirect Link to This Post
I saw a cheap Fiero I could afford, and remembered my dad bought a Fiero new when they came out. He always raved about how awesome the thing, but he had to sell it when he had kids. So, I figured I'd buy one and fix it up real nice, and let him drive it around a couple times to let him enjoy it again.
But then the bug bit me, and now I'm addicted and can't get enough of them.

[This message has been edited by aeffertz (edited 06-08-2009).]

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pontiackid86
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Report this Post06-08-2009 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pontiackid86Send a Private Message to pontiackid86Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by aeffertz:

I saw a cheap Fiero I could afford, and remembered my dad bought a Fiero new when they came out. He always raved about how awesome the thing, but he had to sell it when he had kids. So, I figured I'd buy one and fix it up real nice, and let him drive it around a couple times to let him enjoy it again.
But then the bug bit me, and now I'm addicted and can't get enough of them.



My dad loves my fiero and loves my idea for it. he wants to get one but i dont know what he wants in a fiero. he said somthing nice and orignal. i want to get one for him but i want somthing real nice.

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Report this Post06-08-2009 05:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wirthySend a Private Message to wirthyDirect Link to This Post
I have wanted one ever since I saw Ferris' sister drive one in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off."
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Report this Post06-08-2009 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dudewithoutfieroSend a Private Message to dudewithoutfieroDirect Link to This Post
my illness started when i was looking for a car just to get from point a to point b. the ad said 85 fiero $500 that was all.
i called the number the guy was selling it for his son, knew almost nothing about fieros. went and looked at it, it was a 85 se 4 spd v6. my girlfriend at the time heard the engine fire up and wanted it more than i did so i bought it. i didn't know how to drive a stick so she drove it home that day. the next day i taught myself how to drive it( i knew how to ride a motorcycleso i thought how could a car be much harder).
that fiero was the best car i bought for $500 besides the 86 fiero i have now. about the same time the girl and i split up the car broke down( no spark) it was at her mom and dads where she moved to. she sold the car for 50. she was on the title so there was nothing i could do about it. i still haven't spoke to her and that was over ten years ago. when we split we was friends

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i wish i could change my screenname. as i have a fiero

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Report this Post06-08-2009 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageSend a Private Message to Francis TDirect Link to This Post
I had to use my son's 86GT for a week and found that overall I liked the car aside from the fact it handle like a P.O.S. - he had a dif make tire on every conner!- I also hated the fact that it make lil power and hit the wall at only 4.5k. When he wanted to get rid of it, I took it. Thinking; it just needs maybe 50 more HP and some more revs to be fun. Well, lots of engine mods later -intercooled turbo + + + - It has lots of power and revs on tap and is just what I wanted. Doing a secound one now.

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Report this Post06-08-2009 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for infinitewillSend a Private Message to infinitewillDirect Link to This Post
One of my college classmates interned as a junior designer for GM and worked with the Fiero design team. As a reward for his internship he was allowed to buy a low serial number Fiero (he got #6) when it was delivered to the dealership here in KC, he didn't like the options so he asked if wanted to buy it which I did. A few years later I sold than one and bought an '86 that I put a Corson Spyder kit on. It was later stolen from my storage unit and that ended my Fiero hobby for many years. Last fall my neighbor "gave me" an '87 GT with a bad motor and a few months ago I bought another '87 GT which I am using as a daily driver.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 07:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neolithic ShadowClick Here to visit Neolithic Shadow's HomePageSend a Private Message to Neolithic ShadowDirect Link to This Post
i was 14 and some buddies were into the tuner scene and i wanted something nimble that can take corners because the way i see it, anyone can put 10k in a motor and go to the strip, but i wanted something that shows more the driver's ability (not a jab at drag racers, just personally not my thing) i was looking at MR2s and my mom showed me a fiero online and pics of what her old one used to look like (85 coupe.) i did some research on here and was inspired by the way people customize them rather than a bunch of off the shelf stick-on parts. now i have 2 so im hooked
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Report this Post06-08-2009 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NohbdySend a Private Message to NohbdyDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by greasemonke50613:

well it was approx 10 years ago, when i was 10 myself my dad had just bought (what at the time we THOUGHT) an 84 2m5, and blew a hole in the side of the block on the duke on the way home, and the passion starts there. we got it towed home, went down to the local Chevy Dealership & ordered a crate duke for it, went back home and started pulling the blown duke out, to swap them. that was the 1st car dad allowed me to turn a wrench on, and i've wanted one ever since. bought an 86 last year, wrecked that one, found a PAIR for 750 (1 84 and a non-running 85) tax season this year and jumped on it.


ah yes those 2m5 always get me, they have the best sound IMO. they are super rare as well, ur so lucky you found one lol

anyway, my dad saw an 85 GT in the paper for $700 and remembered what the fiero was, even tho i had no idea. we went and looked at it and i fell in love, and my dad worked him down to $400 because even tho the car ran, it wasnt roadable (no brakes). because hes my dad, he and my mom picked it up in the minivan and he drove it home, and my mom was mad at him for a week. he put it thru its paces on the way home (he claims 75-80mph, i was at school when they got it) despite its lack of useful brakes.

EDIT: cant believe i was the first one to comment on the 2m5 thing...

[This message has been edited by Nohbdy (edited 06-08-2009).]

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Report this Post06-08-2009 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for N3M3S1SSend a Private Message to N3M3S1SDirect Link to This Post
I had heard about them a few years prior, and did some research about'em and saw how customized they were. I didn't really give it a second thought thinking I'd never fit in such a small car. Fast forward a few years with my dying mustang, I saw the Formula on Craig's List for a nice price with low mileage.. The one picture made me fall in love. I had to at least check it out.

So I pulled up to the guy's house and as soon as I saw that sexy little Fiero.. I had to have it. And I fit in it just fine. End of story.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for greasemonke50613Send a Private Message to greasemonke50613Direct Link to This Post
dad has since sold his...i kept track of where it went for a while, and then lost track...
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Report this Post06-08-2009 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTDirect Link to This Post
I was stationed at pearl harbor, and needed a daily driver, it was cheap i needed a car and the rest is history other then the fact that it was a buggy fiero with just about every issue short of fires a fiero can have. I moved to Maryland a few years later after returning to NJ and my current fiero came about because my brothers truck was in the shop he had to borrow my 1996 Saturn sc2 which was my daily driver. He got hit at a poorly designed intersection and totaled the car. So after looking around and not finding anything that didn't require a ton of work for a common car and a high mileage clunker i found my 86 gt and built it into the car that i wanted.

[This message has been edited by Macs86GT (edited 06-08-2009).]

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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gokart MozartClick Here to visit Gokart Mozart's HomePageSend a Private Message to Gokart MozartDirect Link to This Post
Like others, I needed a car and a co-worker had an 84 for sale. It had 2xx,xxx miles and was rusty. It made it to the 20th show, barely. Sold it but got bit by the bug. Got an 85 GT that needed a lot of work. Got it running for the 25th show and picked up a parts car to use as a platform for working on ideas. Got rid of the parts car. Moved and found another parts car and a special project car. Had to get rid of both and then the 85 started to nickel and dime me so I got rid of it. Not long ago I got my latest. Not perfect but pretty darn good. I plan on stunning people at the 30th show with it. It's not a daily driver so that will help with getting it up to snuff.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hagans19Send a Private Message to hagans19Direct Link to This Post
when i was 4 i would go with my dad to his buddys grage and hang out he had 5or 6 84s but the one i remember was a black 84 with tan interior and a spoiler on it and i told him when i could drive i would buy one well lone be hold like 3 year ago my step mom called and told dad that they got a Fiero in at the auto wreckers so we go down and look at it and dad says no rust but i dont want it. it is a notch i like the fast back and i said dad i want it he said you sure i said yeah so i got a price and went to the bank and got my grass cutting money out and paid for it i was so proud of it then i called dads buddy who is now my buddy and said guess what he said what i said i got one he said one what i said a fiero he said no **** the he panited it for me a stuff dad never did get a fiero yet !
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Report this Post06-08-2009 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hyperv6Send a Private Message to hyperv6Direct Link to This Post
Read a story in a magazine in Spet 1980 about the 2 seat little GTO.

The story was pretty much what we saw in 1984.

Went to buy a Trans Am in 1985 but could not afford the insurance at my age so I check into a V6 Fiero and it was cheap to insure. It made a nice grad present form Collage.
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Report this Post06-08-2009 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Austrian ImportSend a Private Message to Austrian ImportDirect Link to This Post
Seeing Fie Ro standing next to the wreckage of his fiero in a 50-60mph crash with a tree. (Granted, with a cast, but standing there) How many other cars can you say that about? That's when I decided the Fiero is safe.

I also blame Janell (atleastitruns) and GGF (Golden Gate Fieros) for getting me interested and exited about Fieros.

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Report this Post06-09-2009 12:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CooterSend a Private Message to CooterDirect Link to This Post
Mine was given to me in return for some work that I had done on a friend's car. I have had others over the years, but getting a loaded 85se for free broght me back to Fieros.
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Report this Post06-09-2009 12:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kawanaClick Here to visit kawana's HomePageSend a Private Message to kawanaDirect Link to This Post
Not much to tell, i was posting over at carforums.net and got a PM from a guy there by the name of Ravant. I started a thread, getting opinions on what kind of car i should buy. I gave a list of my requirements, and the one that fit my needs was the fiero. Shortly after that, i stumbled upon this fine website here, and lurked for a few weeks, until i found a local guy selling a great condition, rust free 87 GT. A week later it was mine Now she's sitting in my garage, mad as hell that ive neglected her for 6 months lol..
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Report this Post06-09-2009 01:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 87antuzziSend a Private Message to 87antuzziDirect Link to This Post
I got my first fiero when I blew up my volvo. I needed something to get me back and fourth to school. I was on craigslist and saw her. After a few days I managed to get 700 dollars. Went and picked it up......I also got my first fixit ticket the same day. Who knew a cop would pull someone over for no hood, bumper, plates, loud exhaust, cracked window and a bad tail light
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Report this Post06-09-2009 11:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AustralianClick Here to visit Australian's HomePageSend a Private Message to AustralianDirect Link to This Post
Originally kit cars but found a GT loved the looks.
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Report this Post06-09-2009 11:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jimbolayaSend a Private Message to jimbolayaDirect Link to This Post
I needed a car for my work commute. (25 miles each way) I wanted something that got 30+ mpg. My friend (formulamoe) had an 85 4cyl for $500. I had been looking at typical commuter cars but didn't really want to spend the money needed to get a dependable one. (since I knew nothing about cars at the time) I knew buying the 85 was risky, but formulamoe knew everything about these cars so I took the risk. It was very undependable at first. I still have nigtmares about that stuck axle, but over time I babied it and replaced most parts and now she is very dependable. I wouldn't hesitate driving it long distance. It has been an incredible teacher (along with you guys here) I know a lot more about cars than I did 5 years ago.

Jim
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Katman81
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Report this Post06-09-2009 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Katman81Send a Private Message to Katman81Direct Link to This Post
When I was a kid I seen an 86 notchie go screaming by my house with the flip up headlights and was in love. Last year my daily driver had the tranny go out and it was time to get a "new" car. I wanted something sporty and roomy inside. Then upon searching craigslist for days I seen an 85 2m6 pop up with a rebuilt transmission and figured what the heck ill check it out. Took it for a drive and on the way back to the sellers house stopped by the bank and got the cash to take it home. I have been loving it ever since. Every once in awhile my father in-law will pull up next to me in his 06 miata and rev his engine. Then I rev mine. He still wants to go for it so I give him a couple seconds on me then I floor it and I wipe the floor with him.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post06-09-2009 05:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleDirect Link to This Post
I wanted a mid-engine, rear wheel drive, left hand drive automobile, and the Fiero was the only one I could get affordably!
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30+mpg
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Report this Post06-09-2009 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 30+mpgSend a Private Message to 30+mpgDirect Link to This Post
"What inspired you to but your fiero?"

Actually, my Fiero was butted by someone else.

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 06-09-2009).]

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CogFieroGT
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Report this Post06-09-2009 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CogFieroGTSend a Private Message to CogFieroGTDirect Link to This Post
I knew about the fiero for a long time, well before i could drive. but for the longest time the only ones i saw or got close to was base models and i didn't care the styling of them( no offense). i went through a tuner phase and because my family is GM or nothing, i got a 96 z24. i finally saw a GT fastback up close at Southeast Showdown(2005 i think) and after that i started researching them, and slowly became obsessed. i eventually got burnt out with my cavi and sold it despite the naysayers. 2 weeks later, i stumbled across an ad on myspace for a 86 GT Fastback auto. called the owner and later met up with him, bought it for a steal at $1200. I love it, just wish it was a manual....one day it will be (or i'll get another one)
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stumpkin
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Report this Post06-09-2009 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stumpkinSend a Private Message to stumpkinDirect Link to This Post
Why I have a Fiero

When I was a young man in the Navy I had an Orange 1972 Opel GT. It was too impractical as a primary car & space was limited to one car, so the Opel GT had to go. When I retired from the Navy I wanted another Opel GT. I couldn’t afford one in great condition. Knowing my mechanical & body working abilities (or lack of) I knew I could not do justice to a restorable one. So I started to look around at other two-seaters. The Fiero’s were plentiful in good condition so I decided to find one the year my oldest child was born. That would be a 1987model, I ended up with an 1986 model as it exactly what I was looking for as far as color engine/transmission & options.

So now I have an 86 Red S/E 2m6, wing, Sunroof, 5sp, pw, cc, ac, + more with less then 28k. I most likely paid too much for it. I have had it for over two years now & I still love it. I would do it again! This is way better then the Opel GT as so many parts are still available from other GM cars. It is also good family fun as we have taken it to a few car shows. I'm enjoying how many people don't know what it is at the shows. Most likely the Fiero will never be destined to be an expensive collector car. However as it gets older I believe it will show better anyway. No matter what we will just keeping having fun with it.
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RickN
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Report this Post06-09-2009 08:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RickNSend a Private Message to RickNDirect Link to This Post
I loved the look of the '86 on GTs. I made regular trips to the local Pontiac dealership to test drive them. I had a young family at that time and could not justify a two seater vehicle. I wanted an '88GT so bad I could taste it but was getting divorced and still couldn't deal with a two seater. In 2004, I found an extreeeeemely low mile '88GT, jumped on it, thanked the original owner for storing it for me and drove my brand new '88GT home.

Since there was nothing to do to the '88 except keep it clean and there was no way I was going to drive the '88 to work I needed another to drive to work and to potentially mod. Enter the '85GT, a 101K mile car with normal 101K mile issues.

------------------
RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto
White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd
1956 Ford 860 Tractor w/ Freeman Loader

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coppertop_01
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Report this Post06-09-2009 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for coppertop_01Click Here to visit coppertop_01's HomePageSend a Private Message to coppertop_01Direct Link to This Post
I bought my Fiero because since I was a kid I had a book on sports cars (I still have it) and inside it was a writeup on a Fiero, I loved it ever since then. Since I had given up on a previous project I had room in my garage and especially now since they are getting more rare year by year it was time for me to start on it.

Jer

[This message has been edited by coppertop_01 (edited 06-09-2009).]

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