As someone who is looking towards doing a 4.9L swap this summer, I would advise to do a good amount of research before mixing model years and PCMs. What we often find is that one year of engine doesn't always use the same sensors, alternator connectors, and other hardware so just your homework before you get into it. I know of a guy who tried to rebuild a 4.9L and it ended up in the scrap heap. He just put an impact wrench on the head bolts to remove them and stripped the threads out of the aluminum block but even if you do rebuild successsfully, you'll end up with a very expensive swap. I would use a sound engine as is with an improved ignition ( MSD) , full flow exhaust, and enjoy the strong low end launch and the great gas mileage. If you are going good, you might be able to do this swap for under $2000 w the auto and less for the stick. Expect to do some belt re-routing, add a new tensioner, and be prepared to build some brackets to relocate the alternator. According to Ed Parks; axles from an Olds Sillouette with the 3800 should drop right in to an auto swap.
Dennis, I'd love to come out and help you out with the swap if you end up doing it, so I can get a feel for what I am getting into with mine My plan is to get a good starting platform, slap new seals in it where need be, replace the water pump, alternator, ignition parts, and reuse as much of my current exhaust as I can (I have a flowtech dual outlet from summit with Rodney's cat running 2.5" pipe all the way back)
From what I understand about this swap, its one of (if not the easiest) swaps to do beyond a straight stock swap.
Send me a PM if you are interested and let me know
-Brian
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05:34 PM
sanderson Member
Posts: 2203 From: corpus christi, texas, usa Registered: Sep 2001
According to Ed Parks; axles from an Olds Sillouette with the 3800 should drop right in to an auto swap.
Not quite
Left side needs a 1989 Pontiac 6000 with light duty brakes Right side is an early 90's minivan (like a Silouette) with 3800 with Fiero manual CV joint swapped on to the outer end
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07:57 PM
DanFiero Member
Posts: 2815 From: Cedar Rapids, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
OK guys....on this axle thing...Here's what I used. It's 3 years and 4000 miles later on the swap, and all is well. Anyone is welcome to come and drive it if they like...
Change the OUTER ends for those from stock Fiero axle ends from a MANUAL transmission car. Simple to do, takes 5 minutes per axle. Your new axles will bolt right up just like they were made for the car.
OK guys....on this axle thing...Here's what I used. It's 3 years and 4000 miles later on the swap, and all is well. Anyone is welcome to come and drive it if they like...
Change the OUTER ends for those from stock Fiero axle ends from a MANUAL transmission car. Simple to do, takes 5 minutes per axle. Your new axles will bolt right up just like they were made for the car.
This is one of the things that has been bothering me, the axle debate. Now that this is cleared up and I know what exactly works, I will be ordering these ones here My other option that I can look into is getting custom axles made. It may be cheaper. There is a place in Reading called Hartman Drive Shaft that does axle rebuilding and such...I think they said its $75 for each axle...More info HERE on them. May help others out with different swaps in the future
Thanks Frizle, plus to you
Now, where can I get the Fiero manual trans outer axle ends? Can I buy them new anywhere?
-Brian
[This message has been edited by Xerces_Blackthorne (edited 05-05-2009).]
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10:50 PM
Frizlefrak Member
Posts: 2921 From: El Paso, Texas Registered: Aug 2003
When we did Jeff88's 4.9 swap, he had an old Ed Parks kit (same one with the large idler pulley). We got curious as to what axle Ed used, in case it ever needed to be replaced. Jeff gave Ed a call, and the Silhouette info was what Ed gave us. We used that combo on the second swap (my 88). This one was homebuilt, as Ed had stopped selling the kits at this point (2006). The axle combo worked perfectly.
Hope this helps.
ps....Brian, you might give Ed Parks a call and see if he has any good used manual axles laying around. If not, post a WTB in the mall and check eBay for them. All you need is the outer end and a pair of slip ring pliers to change them. Then pick up a new boot clamp kit at any auto parts store, and you're set.
[This message has been edited by Frizlefrak (edited 05-05-2009).]
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10:55 PM
Xerces_Blackthorne Member
Posts: 6163 From: Mertztown PA Registered: Mar 2008
Just to be clear, the outer ends must be from the Fiero manual trans, I know that. But which manual trans? The 4 speed Muncie? 5 speed Izzy? 5 speed Getrag? Does it matter at all?
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11:00 PM
thismanyfieros Member
Posts: 3468 From: Red Deer, alberta,canada Registered: Dec 2002
OK guys....on this axle thing...Here's what I used. It's 3 years and 4000 miles later on the swap, and all is well. Anyone is welcome to come and drive it if they like...
Change the OUTER ends for those from stock Fiero axle ends from a MANUAL transmission car. Simple to do, takes 5 minutes per axle. Your new axles will bolt right up just like they were made for the car.
I don't know what else will work....but I do know that this combo WILL work.
You're making this harder than it needs to be.
If you use a left hand axle from an '89 Pontiac 6000 with light duty brakes it drops right in. No need to swap a Fiero manual CV joint onto it. Should have also said the Pontiac 6000 besides light duty brakes needs to come from a 4T60 (4 speed auto) transmission
Rockcrawl uses the Pontiac 6000 axle as have several people here on the forum
[This message has been edited by sanderson (edited 05-06-2009).]
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09:33 AM
May 9th, 2009
Xerces_Blackthorne Member
Posts: 6163 From: Mertztown PA Registered: Mar 2008
Just out of curiousity, do I need to upgrade my fuel pump with this swap as well? Is there a Walbro pump out there that works with the Fiero? I would imagine I need to put a higher flow pump on for it to run properly, it makes sense. But I'm not sure... Whats everyone using?
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10:44 AM
PFF
System Bot
DanFiero Member
Posts: 2815 From: Cedar Rapids, Iowa Registered: Jul 2002
Just out of curiousity, do I need to upgrade my fuel pump with this swap as well? Is there a Walbro pump out there that works with the Fiero? I would imagine I need to put a higher flow pump on for it to run properly, it makes sense. But I'm not sure... Whats everyone using?
I'm using a stock Fiero pump i.e. it wasn't changed and my swap runs fine.
Dan
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10:54 AM
Xerces_Blackthorne Member
Posts: 6163 From: Mertztown PA Registered: Mar 2008
From my expirience the best "mod" one can do for the 4.9 is to toss to stock throttle body and intake and find and install one from a Cadillac Allante... I noticed a big improvement in the 2500-4500 rpm range, burnouts are easier and longer, and my quarter mile time decreased by almost a full second !!....
The Allante also has other great "performance" parts to help the 4.9....
The valve springs on the Allante have a higher seat pressure... what this means is that you can rev the engine to higher rpms without valve float which causes loss of performance and possible damage.
The rocker arm bracket on the Allante is made of iron instead of aluminum... obviously this is better for higher revs... espescially with the higher pressure valve springs.
..... and while you are at it.... you may want to get the Allante gear reduction starter... smaller,lighter, and cranks better.... a must with any fiero transmission so that you don't have to cut out a hole in the transmission to clear the big 4.9 starter.
[This message has been edited by MaxCubes (edited 05-27-2010).]
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12:29 AM
Fieroseverywhere Member
Posts: 4242 From: Gresham, Oregon USA Registered: Mar 2006
You can infact overbore the cylinder sleeves. Larger pistons are available from summitracing.com. IIRC they are Keith Black silv-o-lite. These are the best way to go as you don't have to change the compression ratio like the Northstar or Quad 4 pistons do. They are available in up to .76mm overbore... http://www.summitracing.com...Rings/?Ns=Rank%7cAsc I'm not sure the weight compared to stock pistons so a re-balance of the rotating assembly may be needed. For higher compression builds, such as using Northstar pistons with shaved heads, graphite head gaskets are available. Unfortunately, there are no better intake manifold gaskets available at this time. This remains the weak link in the gasket department and a hinderance for boosted applications.
Rebuilding a 4.9 is not really a difficult thing. The teardown is absolutely crutial though. Any stripped threads in the alluminum block are a PITA to fix. Lots of heat a penatrating lubricant are absolutely necissary. I agree with Mickey Moose on this, for most peoples use its just not worth the time or money to do it. Of course the owner of the engine is the only one who can properly make that decision.
When I did mine I bought a 150k mile junk yard engine. It was the lowest mileage I could find at the time so I decided a rebuild would be a good thing for the longevity I was looking for. Total cost was $204 for engine, PCM, and wiring harness. I spent $355 on premium gaskets, rings, bearings, and an intake valve that needed replaced. There are also oversize bearings if needed. Don't bother with cam bearings. They are line bored after install from the factory and difficult at best to replace. I spent another $180 on the cam that needed replaced. Its cheaper to get a regrind then a factory replacement. Total cost for my rebuilt 4.9... $739. If the cam had been fine it would have been just over $500 total. This is not an expensive engine to rebuild as some would have you believe. I've spent more on 2.8 rebuilds in the past.
Boreing or honing the sleeves is very easy since they are removable. There is no need to take it down to a machine shop to have it done. You can hone them easily with a cordless drill and stone. Overboring is a bit more difficult but still easily possible for the garage mechanic. The gasket kit will come with new o-rings for the cylinder sleeves. Either mark the location of the sleeves or measure their height to the deck when re-installing. They should sit .080 above the deck and be uniform. The 4.9's usually run forever, so unless its needed, I wouldn't bother rebuilding.
Figure out how you want your 4.9 to run and several people here can help you make it happen. I've got a good plan for a performance built 4.9 but I'm not letting it out just yet. My next one will push the limits of what is thought to be possible. It will also be an auto for power holding. I found out roller rockers are much easier then previously thought. I am still working out the details so you guys will just have to be patient...
EDIT: Oops. Just realized this thread is over a year old. Oh well, the info is still good.
[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 05-27-2010).]
My plan is to get a good starting platform, slap new seals in it where need be, replace the water pump, alternator, ignition parts, and reuse as much of my current exhaust as I can (I have a flowtech dual outlet from summit with Rodney's cat running 2.5" pipe all the way back)
Oh well, the info is still good. 
