Ok so there are tons of engine choice posts on here but I need some help.

This is for the convertible I recently bought. It has the 2.5 with the auto. Used to have a stick shift in it but was converted over a few years ago.

Now, I know I absolutely want to go back to stick shift. My question is with the engine. I was originally gonna go with the 3800sc series 2. Then I got to thinking. I don't plan on racing or really breaking the speed limit. What I have planned is a car I can drive and enjoy but still take it to shows and have it look good and maybe win an award here and there.

Also, I want to keep it not too difficult and not crazy expensive. And fairly easy to find. I don't want to be searching for months to find an engine.

Don't get me wrong. I do want it a bit quicker than the stock 2.5. Should I keep it and blow the motor a bit or should I put something else in there?

HELP!

quote Originally posted by MarineFiero: Ok so there are tons of engine choice posts on here but I need some help. This is for the convertible I recently bought. It has the 2.5 with the auto. Used to have a stick shift in it but was converted over a few years ago. Now, I know I absolutely want to go back to stick shift. My question is with the engine. I was originally gonna go with the 3800sc series 2. Then I got to thinking. I don't plan on racing or really breaking the speed limit. What I have planned is a car I can drive and enjoy but still take it to shows and have it look good and maybe win an award here and there. Also, I want to keep it not too difficult and not crazy expensive. And fairly easy to find. I don't want to be searching for months to find an engine. Don't get me wrong. I do want it a bit quicker than the stock 2.5. Should I keep it and blow the motor a bit or should I put something else in there? HELP!

quad 4

I know they have a turbo(?) version of the quad4. 250hp? What are the specs on the n/a? What am I looking at for price for both versions? And how difficult?

they have a LO (low output) and HO engine. The engines are cheap. as far as a swap goes.
.
q4 tranny, fiero axels stay
cooling lines
wire harness
custom engine mounts
exhaust
bla bla bla.
If your going to boost one boost the LO.

What's the HP rating on the HO and LO? And I saw on wikipedia there were many different versions depending on what year. Any thoughts on the best? I like the quad4 idea cause from what I read so far it's fairly reliable and decent on gas. And it'll look good in the convertible.

And I need a quad 4 tranny too? They had manual trans?

[This message has been edited by MarineFiero (edited 04-15-2010).]

The LO quad4 drops somewhere inbetween the 2.5 and the 2.8, but that is easily remedied with a small amount of boost and a tune.

The HO is far and away more powerful than either stock engine. It all depends on what you want.

What would I be looking at for cost with the LO with boost? What about the cost of a HO without boost?

And is it cheaper to find a rebuilt one or grab one from a junkyard and rebuilt it myself?

[This message has been edited by MarineFiero (edited 04-15-2010).]

4.9. Cheap, excellant V8 sound, decent mileage, super smooth, and lots of low end torque. Great for around town. Double the TQ and HP of your 2.5 right out of the box.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-15-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: 4.9. Cheap, excellant V8 sound, decent mileage, super smooth, and lots of low end torque. Great for around town. Double the TQ and HP of your 2.5 right out of the box.

I wouldn't mind a 4.9 but there's a lot of modding involved in that isn't there? And I thought the N* was pretty expensive to get a decent example?

[This message has been edited by MarineFiero (edited 04-15-2010).]

As swaps go, the 4.9 is one of the easiest, and cheapest.

There are a pile of threads and online sites to help you. The Q4 is actually harder than a 4.9 to swap.

Hope this helps.

Arn

The 4.9 and Northstar (4.6L) are completely different engines. The 4.9 MPFI pushrod engine like the 2.8. It has an alluminum block and cast iron heads/cylinder sleeves. Weighs about the same as the 2.8. The Northstar is a DOHC all alluminum V8. Takes a bit more to make it fit. A lot more HP but a little less low end TQ then the 4.9. Huge difference!

The 4.9 takes no mods to fit the engine bay. Engine mounts (one is a piece of angle iron bolted/welded to the cradle), exhaust, and wiring about covers it. For a manual trans it uses a modified fiero flywheel and stronger clutch. It bolts to directly any fiero trans. Its quite an upgrade over the 2.8 and even more so over the 2.5.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-15-2010).]

Hmm. I thought the 4.9 was a N*. My mistake.

Does anyone have a ballpark for the 4.9 and materials to make it work? And again, should it be an already built motor or rebuild a junkyard motor myself?

Also, does the 4.9 look as nice under the hood as the quad4 would? Remember I'm trying to do well in some shows too!

So looks like I have to decide between the quad4 and 4.9.

Do a search. No ones gonna be able to give you a quick answer that tells you everything you need to know. Search for 4.9 swaps. Plenty of em on here, and they will tell you what you need. If you decide it fits your style, start pricing out parts and stuff. If you decide the 4.9 is out of your price range, then you are gonna be rockin that 2.5 for a while. The 4.9 is the cheapest and easiest swap available for a normal guy. You probably don't have DH's magic hands, so you won't be building a 6 trillion whp 3800 from turds and eyelashes for $38.50 and a pack of camels.

Sorry, I can see it seems like I'm trying to do all this on the cheap. That is just not true though. I'm not looking for "the cheapest way out" like some people do. I just want something not crazy expensive but fairly easy to DIY and I want it good looking inside the car. Most of my money budgeted for this build is going into how it looks and handling.

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: You probably don't have DH's magic hands, so you won't be building a 6 trillion whp 3800 from turds and eyelashes for $38.50 and a pack of camels.

Lol! Haven't laughed that hard in a while. Thanks!

Looks are purely subjective. Best advise I give there is have a look around. Find something you like (or you think the judges will like) and go from there. I can tell you without a doubt the 4.9 will sound better then the Q4. Unless you like the sound of a 4cyl that is.

Lets see if I can post a sound clip...
dual glasspacks

EDIT: Cool! It worked. Looks like I have at least one injector leaking by that puff of smoke. Doesn't suprise me. I didnt' even clean them before the install. Its also essentially un-tuned.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-15-2010).]

3.4DOHC.

Hm, you're right. 4.9 does sound nice.

So I'm being told the 4.9 is pretty cheap, looks ok, sounds good and is almost plug and play to install? It will work straight with a Fiero 5sp? But it's not like the Allante N* 4.9? What vehicles was it in?

So it looks like I may have made a choice. Now to find one and decide on an already built one or a junkyard rebuilder. I already have an 88 cradle I can use. Since I want new suspension and brakes and tranny and engine anyways, I figure I can make the cradle perfect for me before I pull apart the working 2.5.

The 3.4 TDC (aka 3.4 DOHC) is a dual overhead cam engine. While it is a member of the GM 60-degree V6 family, it is quite different from a 2.8 (or any other 60-degree V6, for that matter). The engine you were thinking of when you said "a basically enlarged 2.8" was the 3.4 pushrod. While it does look a lot like a 2.8 from the outside (and can use the 2.8 intake, heads, etc), it is very different on the inside. For example, it has a stronger block and better oiling.

quote Originally posted by MarineFiero: Yes, that would be an easy swap but I am trying for something other than a basically enlarged 2.8. I'd like something different looking than the normal Fiero engine bay and it is my understanding on the 3.4 you use the same upper intake? (I could be thinking 3400? Please forgive me. I am new to all these engine ideas) But Yeah, I'll decide between q4 and 4.9 I think. Leaning to 4.9 now though. I know it's been done but whatever haha.

The 3.4DOHC and the factory 2.8L Fiero engine have little in common. You're thinking of the 3.4L from a Camarobird. The 3.4DOHC is just that, dual overhead cam. It revs high, it sounds nice and makes decent power, especially with a turbo.

The Northstar is a 4.6L. The 4.9 is a 4.9. As mentioned before, they're completely different engines, with the Northstar being a pain in the ass to install and the 4.9 being relatively easy. Nobody's talking about a Northstar here because you want a relatively easy swap. If you're ready for a challenge I highly recommend one, though.

quote Originally posted by MarineFiero: Hm, you're right. 4.9 does sound nice. So I'm being told the 4.9 is pretty cheap, looks ok, sounds good and is almost plug and play to install? It will work straight with a Fiero 5sp? But it's not like the Allante N* 4.9? What vehicles was it in?

I suggest doing a bit more research before making a final decision. You should really take you driving style into account. This "should" have more to do with your decision then anything else. If the car doesn't match your personality and style what it looks like won't matter a bit. Eventually you won't like it that much.

The Allante was a 2 seat cadillac made for at least 5 years in the late 80's early 90's. 89-90 used a 4.1 and 91-92 used 4.5 (both were early versions of the 4.9). The allante intake for 89-92 is specific to the car but does work on a 4.9 as many forum members have proven. The 93 Allante used a northstar. 93 was also the last year of production for the Allante. The 4.9 was available in all 91-92 cadillacs, most 93's, and some 94-95's. The 4.9 was phased out in favor of the northstar and production ceised in 95. Northstars started production in 93 and are still being made today.

And thats your history lesson for today.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-15-2010).]

The 4.9 is one of the ugliest engines ever. They can be made to look good, however, i think PBJ has a nice looking turbo one.

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1988 Metallic Red Pontiac Fiero CJB T-Top Coupe, # 784 of 1252
"It's more exciting to drive about with your car on fire."
-Jeremy Clarkson
"Them things had a real problem with fire."
-Random Junkyard Dude

Also keep in mind the fact that the 4.9 doesn't have much power potential. You really won't be getting much more than 200-210 without extensive mods, and even WITH extensive mods they aren't super car engines. They are very peppy in a fiero, but they aren't gonna break any records.

quote Originally posted by Fiero1K: The 4.9 is one of the ugliest engines ever. They can be made to look good, however, i think PBJ has a nice looking turbo one.

Purely subjective. IMO the northstar look like crap without its beauty cover. I'm not fond of the 3800 either though the SC version does look a bit better with that big ol blower on top. The quad 4 is ok. The 3.4DOHC is probably one of the best looking IMO.

PBJ no longer owns that 4.9. It was sold years ago, changed hands several times, and is now owned by member countach711 here on the forum. Here is his current build thread...
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/107968.html
Still to this day its the only truely completed 4.9 turbo engine. Ran consistant low 12 second quarter miles for several seasons. Did so on only 5-6psi boost also. They never had any intension of running below 12's because of the need to install a roll cage. For this reason the engine never went any farther in its power output. The engine was eventually sold in favor of a northstar turbo build... which was riddled with problems and eventually abandoned. But the 4.9 turbo still lives on...

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-16-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Purely subjective. IMO the northstar look like crap without its beauty cover.

Haha, again...purely subjective. I find a "naked" Northstar to be among the sexiest FWD engines out there.

quote Originally posted by 1986 Fiero GT: Haha, again...purely subjective. I find a "naked" Northstar to be among the sexiest FWD engines out there.

Exactly! Its all about personal opinion. The only perfect engine is the one the owner thinks is perfect. All other opinions don't matter. Personally I build my cars to drive. I don't really care what the engine looks like. I only see it when I'm working on it.

I like threads like this. Everyone is getting along. No fighting over engine choices, options, ect. There is a funny thing about fiero. Just about any GM engine has been isntalled into one at some point. Many non-GM engines also. The list of possibilities is practically endless.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-16-2010).]

Oh jeez. Thank you all for your input. Now I'm more confused. And I apparently need to increase my knowledge of all the engine choices before I make my decision.

Help me eliminate some at least. First priority is ease of installation. I have only vague knowledge of engine work and have only had the engine out of a Fiero once. I also can not leave my car apart for more than a couple days as I use an on-base shop to do my work and I'd have to pay big bucks to keep it in a bay for too long.

Second priority is price. I am not looking to spend a fortune.

Third priority is drivability. I don't need anything crazy quick. I am looking for something that will jump up and pass on the highway if I need it to. Something that has decent acceleration off the line. As long as it's quicker than my Reatta, I'm good. I want something smooth and decent sounding.

Last priority is how it looks. I would like to make a nice looking engine because I'd like to show it now and then. But this WILL NOT be a primary function of the car.

Now... start the suggestions again.

Edit: And I don't need A/C. It's a convertible duh haha.

[This message has been edited by MarineFiero (edited 04-16-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Lol! Haven't laughed that hard in a while. Thanks! Looks are purely subjective. Best advise I give there is have a look around. Find something you like (or you think the judges will like) and go from there. I can tell you without a doubt the 4.9 will sound better then the Q4. Unless you like the sound of a 4cyl that is. Lets see if I can post a sound clip... dual glasspacks EDIT: Cool! It worked. Looks like I have at least one injector leaking by that puff of smoke. Doesn't suprise me. I didnt' even clean them before the install. Its also essentially un-tuned.

Captfiero has a cool ride, but, to be brutally honest, my 2.8 sounds waayyyyy better.

http://plunder.com/34c4772b3f

Arm

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quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Captfiero has a cool ride, but, to be brutally honest, my 2.8 sounds waayyyyy better. http://plunder.com/34c4772b3f Arm

Thats my ride. Not Capt fieros. He's just a nice guy and allows me to host on his site. Save's me from having to deal with the you tube losers. You know the ones. I recently put a new exhaust system on that car. I like it except for the tips. They started to discolor almost immediately. As of last night its 5 days old.

My exhaust is currently running dual 12" 2.25" ID glasspack mufflers, deville manifolds with custom outlet pipe and crossover, into 2.25ID x 3"OD tips. The entire system is about 6.5' long. Sounds great for a $115 exhaust system.

Your 2.8 does sound good. Details on the exhaust system? I'm guessing magniflow muffler, no cat, single outlet tips? Also what did you use to take the sound clip? My camera can't capture very accurate sound at all.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-16-2010).]

You should probably also consider the 3400 SFI. Better driveability, better power, and mileage probably equal to your Duke.

I know you mentioned the 3800 SC, but said you wern't planning to really go that fast. While it was mentioned in passing by another poster what about the 3800 NA version? The series 2 NA had 205 hp with 235 tq, 4.9 200 hp and 275 tq. Kind of a plain looking engine, but it moves our 2000 Bonneville pretty well.

Khw that was a thought of mine but I have a 3800 in my reatta and I'd rather have something different. I know it pushes my 3700# reatta pretty well and would do even better with the fiero weighing what 1500# less. But yeah I'd like to have sone variety in my life.

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: My exhaust is currently running dual 12" 2.25" ID glasspack mufflers, deville manifolds with custom outlet pipe and crossover, into 2.25ID x 3"OD tips. The entire system is about 6.5' long. Sounds great for a $115 exhaust system. Your 2.8 does sound good. Details on the exhaust system? I'm guessing magniflow muffler, no cat, single outlet tips? Also what did you use to take the sound clip? My camera can't capture very accurate sound at all.

I used one of these http://www.olympusamerica.c...uct.asp?product=1456

I then cleaned up the sound with Magix.

You guessed correctly. My system though, is a 2.5" which gives a lower note. I found the digital voice recorder also did not give an accurate recording. It did not pick up the lows properly.

Arn

If you want a show engine 3800SC. they have pop when you open the deck lid. If polished you will be that much better off and there have been so many swaps done you will not have the issues other swaps have. It will also be very fast. I did see a Quad4 swap here in Texas that is very clean and is a show winner also.

Why not the obvious? 3800 N/A like I'm doing. Just over 50% more power and 50% more torque. One of the easiest swaps.

As I said in my last post. I don't want a 3800. I have one in my reatta already and I want something different. I'd like to avoid two cars with the same engine.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I used one of these http://www.olympusamerica.c...uct.asp?product=1456 I then cleaned up the sound with Magix. You guessed correctly. My system though, is a 2.5" which gives a lower note. I found the digital voice recorder also did not give an accurate recording. It did not pick up the lows properly. Arn

Nice! Sounds great!

quote Originally posted by MarineFiero: As I said in my last post. I don't want a 3800. I have one in my reatta already and I want something different. I'd like to avoid two cars with the same engine.

Check these videos. If you see something you like write down the time. Maybe we can get an idea of what your looking for.


The Orange Fiero crushing the vette at 1:56 is the 4.9 turbo mentioned above. Then the engine pictures start. Lots of 3800SC, Northstars, the 4.9 turbo, 2.8's, 3.4DOHC's, a couple LSX's, and some SBC's at the beginning of the video.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 04-16-2010).]

quote Originally posted by MarineFiero: Ok so there are tons of engine choice posts on here but I need some help. This is for the convertible I recently bought. It has the 2.5 with the auto. Used to have a stick shift in it but was converted over a few years ago. Now, I know I absolutely want to go back to stick shift. My question is with the engine. I was originally gonna go with the 3800sc series 2. Then I got to thinking. I don't plan on racing or really breaking the speed limit. What I have planned is a car I can drive and enjoy but still take it to shows and have it look good and maybe win an award here and there. Also, I want to keep it not too difficult and not crazy expensive. And fairly easy to find. I don't want to be searching for months to find an engine. Don't get me wrong. I do want it a bit quicker than the stock 2.5. Should I keep it and blow the motor a bit or should I put something else in there? HELP!

Figure out your budget first and what you're looking for out of the engine swap. There are all kinds of engine swaps from ecotec 4's and up to various v8's available for reasonable prices. There is a good bit of fab work necessary to fit a non factory installed engine into a fiero, but just about anything is possible. Add 1k to any estimate someone gives you for a completed engine swap install to have it near perfect with all the kinks worked out.

Just my opinion but I would stay away from the Qaud 4's, they're prone to cylinder head issues plus it's an older dead engine. No more new factory parts. I'm not saying a Q4 wouldn't make a nice running Fiero, but you may run into more reliabilty issues vs. other swaps.

good luck with your project
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88blackchopv8

[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 04-16-2010).]

What was at 2:12 and 2:18. I'm on my iPhone ao I can't tell.