outlawfiero17:ok ive been wanting to do a 3.4 swap since i got my fiero. i have a 2.8 with a 4spd. what i want to do is get a 3.4 rebuild it with some roller 1.6rockers trueleo exhaust and get a 5spd. ....
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09:16 PM
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
pontiacfierokid1985:hey everyone i just got a 3800 non supercharged with all the wiring and computer i was wondering if i could get the factory supercharger off a different car with it and bolt it on and also wondering if it will bolt up to getrag 4 speed i plan on starting this project in the spring so i want to make sure i have everything before i start
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09:18 PM
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
av8fiero:Ok, as of right now I just picked up my potential LSR Fiero. Maybe I will stick with the F40 for this car. I haven't researched ANYTHING on the automatic behind the LS4 as of yet because I originally wasn't intending on using it. I have not really chosen what trans I will run as of yet. I certainly want to go fast [200 possibly]. I also wasn't looking to get there all in one swoop [being realistic, building speed gradually], heck I may even run the car with the factory drivetrain once I get the chassis setup at an ECTA event just to see what it will run. ...
The motor is out of my 86 GT, and the 3800 gen 2 is ready. I need to do a lot of cleaning/painting for appearances on the cradle and trans, and engine bay. Prep work.
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09:30 PM
UND_Sioux Member
Posts: 319 From: Houston, TX, USA Registered: Dec 2009
In progress, but not yet on the Fiero cradles: '84 2M4 with '88 cradle, LS4 bored to 5.7L, twin turbo, attached to '06 F40-MT2 6-speed, maybe then to NSX 5-speed, maybe then to LS3, non-turbo, maybe then back to '06 F40-MT2 6-speed. '86 SE with Chevy 383 attached to Getrag 5-speed, maybe then to '06 F40-MT2 6-speed, and maybe then to NSX 5-speed, depending on breakage '86 SE with L67, undecided on 4T65E-HD or '06 F40-MT2 6-speed.
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09:31 AM
PFF
System Bot
Feb 26th, 2010
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
michfiero:I have an opportunity to get my hands on a 4.9L engine (engine only...no trans). The problem is I don't have a truck or access to a truck.
The question is...will the engine fit in the passenger compartment of my 88 (yes, seat removed)? The interior of the car is already gutted for an upgrade anyhow.
This opportunity may not last and this is why I am thinking of doing this.
I need real thoughtful input....I would have to drive 1.5 hours to get it so I don't have any chance of doing test fits at home.
Will it fit....will it be too much weight on that side of the car...will the door open wide enough..etc Thanks
T
[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 02-26-2010).]
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09:25 PM
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
joshh44:... im swapping in a 3.8 series 1 engine and i have the isuzu trans. i just dont want to go overkill with the clutch and snap the trans. not until i can afford to upgrade to a stronger one. im just looking for a clutch with similar tq rating. i rather have the clutch slip abit than hear rattling and grinding of metal behind me.
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09:27 PM
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
flydeep:The new GL1800 Gold Wings are 1,832cc engine delivers 118 horsepower and 125 lb./ft of torque. The cylinders are horizontally opposed (flat / boxer) and 6 in number. The engine revs freely and I’ve had two of them. The bikes weigh in at around 1600 pounds with two passengers, full fuel, oil, luggage bags packed and will still pull a 5 or 600 pound trailer. And with all this it will still go like crazy, considering. I’ll guess the Iron duke and 5 speed getreg must weigh about 700 pounds so with out them the notch back must be around 1800. Install a 1.8 liter Gold wing engine and that would bring it back to around 2200 with full fuel and oil. The Gold Wing engine is so smooth and all the accessories are driven internally. No belts and supper reliable for 200,000 +. My guess is it should get around the same MPG as the bike or better due to lower drag. And the dam thing would fit so sweetly. Performance should be equal or close to the 2.5 Duke with out any boost but if it was boosted the 1.8 could easily push 140 HP. What are some opinions?
Jatwaa21:... I would be curious to drop a Honda engine in the Fiero, at 230 HP, it would be enough. I can't say that I am stressing HP too much, my Kia has about 130 HP and it still gets up enough for me to be happy and spin tires when I need to. Not winning many races, but, its enough.
I would assume that the install and mods for a 4 cylinder would be a simple enough thing, its light and should need many changes, But this, of course, is an assumption. I am a computer tech not a mechanic.
What would you all think?
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09:36 PM
DLCLK87GT Member
Posts: 2717 From: South Jersey, USA Registered: Feb 2009
I’ve yanked the 2.8 and am just getting started on building my 2.8/3.4 stroker long block crate motor from ARI Racing http://www.engine-parts.com/GMV6/gmv6ps1.html Before I stick it in I’m going to do the heads and everything else i can to get the most out of it. I really wanted to go with a 3800SC but maybe next time.
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10:29 PM
rourke_87_T-Top Member
Posts: 1347 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jan 2009
I'm in the very, very, long process of a Northstar project, using a non electronic, adjustable shift points, 4T60 model 1KZH , custom 2500 stall torque converter, Holley 950 from chrfab.com on an '88 cradle, the engine may and hopefully will be upgraded in time, possibly forced induction. I've read many of the Northstar projects but this will be the first, to my knowledge using this combination. 1KZH has a traction control feature that I have yet to , but want to figure out. Wide band O2, Pro software, allowing +8,200 rpm capability. MSD D.I.S. 4 channel ignition with two stage rev limiter. But I'm doing it on a shoestring.
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10:45 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
I did this with a 350 Chevy V8 into the passenger side of an '84 Camaro with the seat removed. It makes a mess, but otherwise it's just like having a couple of heavy girls squeezed in there. Only quieter.
87 Mera with 3.4 turbo with cam (waiting for Truelo intake and 57 mm TV installation) 88 Mera with 3800 SC Series III, N*TV, ZZP intercooler, XP cam, 3.4 pulley 88 Mera with 383 (in process)
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03:08 PM
bmwguru Member
Posts: 4692 From: Howell, NJ USA Registered: Sep 2006
87 Blue GT 5speed, havent actually started the swap yet, but i have a V8 archie master kit and a '72 350 freshly rebuilt in my garage. I plan on starting sometime in march.
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08:42 PM
PFF
System Bot
timcha Member
Posts: 741 From: Edmond, Oklahoma, USA Registered: Jun 2008
Today I bought a low mile series II sc out of a Bonneville for $500. It's headed for my 86 t-top, but not anytime soon. I'm still trying to decide which transmission.....car now has a 4 speed, but I can't decide whether to go with a Beretta 5 speed, G6 6'er, or the 4t65e-hd route. I know where there is an 88 baretta I could pickup for dirt cheap, but I'm not sure which speedo sender it has. I'm going to have to pick up another cradle and have the build ready to drop in when finished as its my dd. Any comments, advice, or suggestions are welcome!
[This message has been edited by timcha (edited 02-27-2010).]
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09:13 PM
Feb 28th, 2010
sadie goad Member
Posts: 274 From: Stevens Point, Wisconsin, USA Registered: Apr 2008
Tomorrow morning I'm picking up a 2.2l ecotec to put in my Fiero. Talking with Tom about getting one of his wiring/megasquirt kits and trying to figure out what transmission to mate it with. Hoping to have everything together to do the swap in Spring '11. I can't wait! My poor little duke has 136k on it.
------------------ I'm a poor college student because I modify my cars!
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12:20 AM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
Tomorrow morning I'm picking up a 2.2l ecotec to put in my Fiero. Talking with Tom about getting one of his wiring/megasquirt kits and trying to figure out what transmission to mate it with. Hoping to have everything together to do the swap in Spring '11. I can't wait! My poor little duke has 136k on it.
My duke has 156,000 miles of city driving, and still going strong, so you might hope for another 20,000. That should be plenty to let you get the Ecotec ready.
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09:54 AM
FFIEROFRED Member
Posts: 751 From: GULFPORT, MS Registered: May 2008
87 with 3800 II / 4t65 84 thats getting a 3500 lx-5/ 4t65 84 that has had 3 2.5's, a 3.0 buick, a 3.8/4t40 ( not a 3800 ) a built 355 chevy/4t60, and a 305 crossfire/4t60, the 355 is going back in it some day. all work by owner.
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03:41 PM
merciero Member
Posts: 220 From: knoxville tn Registered: Mar 2009
i got an 84, with a lambo murcie kit. im doing a 06 3800 series III genV swap with the tapshift. i had to use the complete harness and interior, a/c heater box, gauges, fuel pump, everything out of the 2006 grand prix GT to make it work..
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04:50 PM
Mar 5th, 2010
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
FieroBrad87:So I've got an opportunity at a 4.6L Northstar from a friend who is a mechanic. All my friends and myself are good mechanics, fabricators, electricians but throw me a bone...
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06:34 PM
Mar 26th, 2010
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
ccgreen1994: I have an 87 fiero that the engine is trashed on. I have found a 3.4 liter out of a camaro that I have read you can use and the wiring will match up. Ok, my question is do I use the computer that came with the fiero for the 3.4 or do I need to purchase the one that came out of the camaro?
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04:54 PM
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
aaronkoch: Ok, so here is the beginning of a few months (hopefully less) of destroyed knuckles and dirty hands.
I found a rust free '88 coupe here in the Spokane area, '88 coupe with Iron Lung, and a slushbox on it. Came with AC, power windows, locks. No sunroof panel, so I'll swap the one off my parts car. I drove the car around for a few weeks and although it had NO real power to speak of, this is my first '88 so I am in awe of how nicely they ride. This, despite the fact that all the ball-joints are original, and the bushings look like they went up against Chuck Norris' blender.
Without further ado, let's get some pictures rolling!
Cleaning interior out, put on blocks for prep.
Tony Kania came over to help -- He disconnected the engine and transmission lines while I tore down the front suspension. Thanks Tony!
No real rust to speak of, surface stuff here or there, but the bolts all came out without incident except the front brake hose flare bolts. I'll have to cut and re-flare.
Some interior shots, notice how "clean" this car is.. I've never seen one before that didn't at least have rust on the hoor handle mounts.
So, I pre-loosened all the cradle bolts, and disconnected the parking brake cable (MAN, I love how they did it on the '88, under the front cradle crossmember!). Then, Joe (aka Fieroking) showed me his fool-proof method of rigging up to lift a fiero. It basically involves removing rear bumper cover, and bumper mount, and wrapping a strap around frame rails. Not only does this prevent the car from moving around a lot, but it doesn't roll on axis when lifted, and it leaves you enough room to slide dollies under the cradle.
Here's me, suggesting we hit it with a bigger stick. My oldest son Max was so stoked that he got to lift up a whole car. Greg's son Tyler was there helping and learning as he's now 16 and about to begin work on his fiero. That's Joe jockeying the dollies around until they were just right.
Once we got the car resting on the dollies, I got down there to finish removing the cradle bolts. This particular one caused me extreme grief because no matter how we jockeyed the car around, there was still a little weight on it, so I ended up just backing it ALL the way out with a wrench. By the end, I was laying on the ground and my arm was cramping something fierce. I'm an IT admin by trade, not used to all this REAL work...
While I was wedged under there, Joe decided to throw small things down at me and wiggle the duke to scare me. This was my first 2.5, and I thought it was rather ghetto that it only had 2 mounts + a dog bone to hold it up. It was SO sloppy in there..
One last check before lifting the car off, pulled the power, grounds, and the harness through.
Liftoff! Notice my apparent "I am Sparta!" nose covering. I'm pretty sure Greg did that on purpose to keep my camera from melting.
Oops, forgot a hose. Nobody pay attention to that one, it's not important.
Ok, all clear, time to push!! wiggled around to clear the brake line, and the legs of the crane:
Woohoo! All clear! I think I'm doubled over in pain here, but don't remember. By this time, I'd sniffed too much brake fluid, antifreeze, and spent the whole day in the super-hot sun. After this, we set some blocks under where the cradle mounts in the rear. (Don't stare at my ass, and remember kids, say no to crack)
Ugh, cleanup begins. No rust except the battery tray (still not much). At least I can get rid of all that disgusting fiberglass crapola.
Obligatory standing in the engine bay shot: Note, car owner is more than slightly unhinged by now. This, and there is a HUGE thunderstorm rolling in.. Time to put away tools, and cover stuff..
More later! Thank you so much to Joe (Fieroking), Tony Kania, Greg (lilrdfiero), Tyler, and my wife for allowing me another project (although I'm sure it was a brief moment of weakness, and I'll pay for it later). And the sun set on the first day..
[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 03-26-2010).]
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04:55 PM
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
The plan was to use a Allante intake And build on top of that to clear the Dizzy. But finding one has been a pain in the rear. Allantesource Don't return Emails. No returned Emails No Sell for them.
I was trying to mill the top of a 4.9 intake. So far thats not working out so good. As of right now things are on hold tell I find the parts I need.
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04:58 PM
30+mpg Member
Posts: 4061 From: Russellville, AR Registered: Feb 2002
07Hoffmannd: so i figured now was a good time to start posting my build. ive got a 84' notchie that im swappin a 3800 sc into. the main reason for me doing this is becuase the iron duke crapped out on me. so i needed a new engine. id never done anything like this before. The most ive done was paint the interior and do regular maintenance on it. i was gonna pay someone to do the swap for me but im super poor. and there doesnt seem to be anyone in the st. louis area that does swaps like this. so.... well before i bore anyone ill show some pics of the car...
ok hope that satisfies
now here's some pics of the engine...
ok then.
i want to say this before people start throwin ideas at me. I AM POOR!!. im only 20 and i am currently unemployed (through no fault of my own) and no one seems to be hiring. so any expensive ideas will have to wait for later. also, im not looking to be the fastest car in the world, i just need this car to do a couple things... be a daily driver when finished, make long trips (like from st. louis to springfield, MO. which is about 350 miles), and be reliable. But i still want it to be fast. just not break-neck fast. really the only thing that i plan on doing to this engine, performance wise, is getting the smaller pully for the supercharger.
my main concerns right now are these (in this order)
1. prepping engine for install (includes wiring) 2. removal of 2.5 from the fiero 3. prepping fiero for install 4. installing 5. get running 6. beat friends in race
now those are obviously just the main ideas and then there's all the smaller ones along the way. one of my main problems is that im terrible with wiring. it confuses the **** outa me and i dont know what anything means so if you explain anything wire related to me, pretend that im your pet retarded monkey.... thats blind. so what i was gonna do is just buy a wiring harness thats already done and use that. i do have the wiring harness for the 3800 so people will suggest to make my own, but again, im a retarded blind monkey when it comes to wiring. but maybe you guys can cure me of this. ill be posting more pictures in a bit cause ive already started on the engine a while ago and just now am posting it. so progress will seem very quick at first. and then it will slow to real life time. and thats when ill need you guys. cuase ill have plenty of questions.
(BTW, ignore all the photo related questions and comments below because i fixed the problem
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05:00 PM
PFF
System Bot
Philphine Member
Posts: 6136 From: louisville,ky. usa Registered: Feb 2000
a v8 archie kit, the beginnings of a collection of the bottom end of a 302, and some aluminum heads. about 3 sets of bubba joe type 4.9 mounts also. had 'em for years, that's as far as i got.
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05:04 PM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
Wait...you mean the old chevy 302, right? Wow, that's gonna be wicked, a high rpm sbc....can't wait to see it.
My plan is an EJ20 turbo from a WRX, along with that cars 5 speed transaxle. These are longitudinally mounted, but since its a boxer 4, it is only 2 cylinders deep, so I should have no problem fitting it. People make 300 whp in reliable WRXs with bolt on bits and tuning, so it should be easy, plus the fiero is lighter than a WRX, so it'll put less stress on components. And having a factory mated engine/tranny combo will simplify wiring, fitment, and things like which clutch to get. Plus the gear ratios of the tranny are designed for the engine.
Wait...you mean the old chevy 302, right? Wow, that's gonna be wicked, a high rpm sbc....can't wait to see it.
My plan is an EJ20 turbo from a WRX, along with that cars 5 speed transaxle. These are longitudinally mounted, but since its a boxer 4, it is only 2 cylinders deep, so I should have no problem fitting it. People make 300 whp in reliable WRXs with bolt on bits and tuning, so it should be easy, plus the fiero is lighter than a WRX, so it'll put less stress on components. And having a factory mated engine/tranny combo will simplify wiring, fitment, and things like which clutch to get. Plus the gear ratios of the tranny are designed for the engine.
You mean the 5spd AWD transaxle?
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05:45 PM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
yeah, came across the block local and started looking for parts for it. probaly the worst way to do it if you don't really know what you're doing, but i'm in no hurry.
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12:07 AM
TommyRocker Member
Posts: 2808 From: Woodstock, IL Registered: Dec 2009
That's awesome... those 302's were screamers. It's difficult to find accurate hp ratings of the old engines because A) the system was different, and B) GM under rated them like crazy, but I've read that the 290 hp at 5200 rpm or whatever it was wasn't even close. Supposedly, the 290 was accurate, but the PEAK was more like 375 at 6500 or something. IDK, just seems like your best bet would be to build it to rev up close to 8k, don't worry about low end torque... or ignore me, its after midnight, and I'm easily excited when I'm tired... hehehe.
edited because I thought it was neat that if this ends up in your fiero you'll have the best 4.9 swap around....hehehe
[This message has been edited by TommyRocker (edited 03-27-2010).]
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12:37 AM
Adam1988 Member
Posts: 326 From: Tigard, Oregon, USA Registered: Jul 2007
yeah, came across the block local and started looking for parts for it. probaly the worst way to do it if you don't really know what you're doing, but i'm in no hurry.
I'm familiar with those SBC 302s if you need tech advice.
