I have seen some posts on both the 3400 SFI and the 3800 swaps, but I am curious which is better. I am partial to the 3800 swap because of a bullet proof engine (for the most part). I am curious, why would one want to swap in a 3400 SFI. Are there benefits to it?
thanks
------------------ Thank for the sig. Bobadoofunk 1984 Fiero Sport Coupe 1990 Buick Reatta 2002 Chevy Impala base
60 degree or 90 degree,regardless of engine family if it's not a 2.8 it's not "correct" I think it's more because the 3400 block is almost drop in as opposed to fanning mounts etc.
I don't have a swap,mine is all stock all "correct" 2.8L. But if I couldn't weld or afford someone to do the non shadetree stuff then 3400 is more ideal it seems.
Not sure if this is correct or not,but that's how it seems.
*I've never herd of 3.8 being a v8 descendant.... I believe your mistaking it for the 4.3L which same as a 350 missing two cylinders. Pistons,rods etcc with all interchange. I'm not a 3.8 guru,but never heard of a v8 that will swap parts like that with a 3.8 please correct me and give me some info on It if I'm wrong.
[This message has been edited by DefEddie (edited 10-17-2009).]
Reading past posts I had the idea that a 3400 DOHC was sort of a high maintenance compared to the 3800. After seeing and hearing Mike Murphy's 3400 DOHC, I am not so sure and it sounded great.
------------------ RickN White 88GT 5spd White 85GT Auto White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd 1956 Ford 860 Tractor w/ Freeman Loader 20Ft H&H Tilt Bed Trailer
[This message has been edited by RickN (edited 10-18-2009).]
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08:08 PM
hookdonspeed Member
Posts: 7980 From: baltimore, md Registered: May 2008
people here seem to like the 3800's IMO its because they are more documented, and comes with boost....
but IMO, i perfer the 60degreeV6's im doing a 3500 swap myself, its basically the same as a 3400, just need a few extra mods/adapters (TB, crank trigger). but i will not need custom mounts, or custom flywheel.
on a side note, the 3800's have the better 1/4 mile times on the forum, but i think thats because the 3400/3500/3900's havent been done more.
if you want more info on 3400's check over at 60degreev6.com, for the 3800's, pick a random gtp site :X
people here seem to like the 3800's IMO its because they are more documented, and comes with boost....
but IMO, i perfer the 60degreeV6's im doing a 3500 swap myself, its basically the same as a 3400, just need a few extra mods/adapters (TB, crank trigger). but i will not need custom mounts, or custom flywheel.
on a side note, the 3800's have the better 1/4 mile times on the forum, but i think thats because the 3400/3500/3900's havent been done more.
if you want more info on 3400's check over at 60degreev6.com, for the 3800's, pick a random gtp site :X
It's gonna take more than one of those engines to catch up with FieroX
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09:02 PM
hookdonspeed Member
Posts: 7980 From: baltimore, md Registered: May 2008
Originally posted by DefEddie: *I've never herd of 3.8 being a v8 descendant.... I believe your mistaking it for the 4.3L which same as a 350 missing two cylinders. Pistons,rods etcc with all interchange. I'm not a 3.8 guru,but never heard of a v8 that will swap parts like that with a 3.8 please correct me and give me some info on It if I'm wrong.
It's a descendant of the Buick 215 V8 from the sixties.
The 3800 has gone through alot of evolution since then - like it doesn't share crankpins between cylinder pairs anymore. I wouldn't be surprised after many years if it shares any parts at all.
The big turn-off for me - the 90 degree vee angle.
at last check (a few months ago) the 3400 was a direct swap... correct me if im wrong, but it uses existing mounts, bolts right up to the bell of the tranny, and uses the stock 2.8 ecu. only the starter mounting needs to be redrilled. this is a bit of a motive. cuz i hear 3800's are a pain to wire.
at last check (a few months ago) the 3400 was a direct swap... correct me if im wrong, but it uses existing mounts, bolts right up to the bell of the tranny, and uses the stock 2.8 ecu. only the starter mounting needs to be redrilled. this is a bit of a motive. cuz i hear 3800's are a pain to wire.
your talkng about the camaro 3.4, thats is a diffrent engine then the 3400. the 3.4 had iron heads, the 3400 had large port aluminum heads, and the 3400 was an obd-2 ecu engine, you cannot retain the distributor on a 3400, or use the fiero intakes.
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01:44 AM
hookdonspeed Member
Posts: 7980 From: baltimore, md Registered: May 2008
I'm in the middle of a 3.1 conversion and it seams a lot easier than a 3.4, 3.1 still have distributors and you don't have as many holes to fill. stock ecu, trans, motor mounts just transfer stuff over. Easier but less power.
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08:08 PM
cooguyfish Member
Posts: 2658 From: Hamilton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2002
3400 = OHV, aluminum head engine (185ish HP 210 ish torque)
3.4 DOHC (not designated 3400) is also aluminum heads but shares very little with the 3400. (210 ish HP, 210ish torque)
3.4 Iron head. Very similar to the fiero 2.8, just more CI (160HP, 200 torque)
3500 for the win. 3400 would be my second choice really, with one exception.
I am in the process of building a few franken motors. I have a couple cars and will do a few different builds next spring as time allows... This is just a rough summary but bear with me.
Fiero 2.8, crank, rods, pistons. 3100 block, and 2000+ 3100/3400 heads (they are simliar)
iron head pistons with aluminum heads will give you roughly 12.5 compression, and the newer block has a roller cam and better oiling. This with the right cam will run 7K RPM's, and should produce over 200-225 HP
second engine
camaro 3.4 pistons/rods, 3400 crank (camaro crank I'm sure is the same, but I don't have one, and I do have a 3400 crank). 3500 heads, and a good cam. I predict this engine will make north of 300 HP.
I also plan on doing a 7730 ECM swap in both cars.
O, and I also have a 3500, I haven't decided if that's going into a fiero or a camaro, but it will probably be turbo'd either way.
I vote 3500 since you can usually find them with very low miles, and either A) cam it and get 240-275 HP, or B) turbo it and get 300-400.
-Brandon
------------------ The List; 1) 84 Rabbit diesel 4spd (55+ MPG of daily driving fun) 2) 95 BMW 325i 5 spd (Wife's car) 3) 98 Jetta TDI (to replace the rabbit) 4) 87 Fiero 3800 S1 S/C 5spd (almost road ready) 5) 87 Fiero coupe 5spd FOR SALE 6) 85 S10 diesel 5spd (engine donor) 7) 84 S10 (reveiver) 8) 84 S10 2.5 5spd FOR SALE 9) 87 GMC S15 2.8 5spd parts truck 10) 91 Mercedes 190E (diesel 5spd swap) 11) 84 Mercedes 190D (donor) 12) 87 GT (7730 ecm, 3500, izusu 5spd swap soon) 13) 88 Fiero coupe (Parts car)
[This message has been edited by cooguyfish (edited 10-18-2009).]
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09:29 PM
1984whitesc Member
Posts: 1043 From: Clayton, WI USA Registered: Jun 2006
/\ that's a lot of good information. I am thinking about doing an engine swap. I was just curious which is the better engine to swap. Has anyone done the 4.3 V6? I hear they are good engines. Even if they are missing two cylinders lol.
------------------ Thank for the sig. Bobadoofunk 1984 Fiero Sport Coupe 1990 Buick Reatta 2002 Chevy Impala base
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09:42 PM
cooguyfish Member
Posts: 2658 From: Hamilton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2002
/\ that's a lot of good information. I am thinking about doing an engine swap. I was just curious which is the better engine to swap. Has anyone done the 4.3 V6? I hear they are good engines. Even if they are missing two cylinders lol.
vortec fiero (I think that's his name) has a turbo 4.3, and no hate against that engine (I had an S10 with the first gen TBI 4.3) but, there are things i don't like about them. the older one was a very "rough" engine, the newer one's I'm sure are better, like 3800 smooth, but the old ones are out. they require the same parts as a 350 swap and most people after spending that money want the extra 2 cylinders.
but an engine that size can certainly make a lot of power, it would probably be easier to work on the a 60 degree V6 (speculation) and it would be unique.
-Brandon
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09:47 PM
fieroguru Member
Posts: 12506 From: Champaign, IL Registered: Aug 2003
My 3800 in my bird just proved its not a bullett proof motor but i still swear my life by it. I beat it up and babied it and it just went on me a month ago but this has been the only problem it has ever givin me.
3400 vs 3800? Weighing the pros and cons, my cradle is still sitting empty. After my friend took me for a ride in his FWD with over 200k on it, the burdon of this choice was lifted. I bought one just for the motor and electronics. He claimed the transmission as he has been through several. This swap will be a 3.0 Yamaha. Does anyone know if a Gretag(Muncie 282) will shift OK at over 8000 rpm?
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11:26 PM
Oct 19th, 2009
hookdonspeed Member
Posts: 7980 From: baltimore, md Registered: May 2008
I thought someone here was already working on the SHO swap? Not sure if it was the 3.4 V8 or the 3.0 V6 though. I'm not sure I would want that trouble though. They aren't terrible to work on,but not great fun messing with the intake tubes of the 3.4. I wouldn't relish putting an engine with hardly any parts/aftermarket support into a car that already hardly has any parts/aftermarket support. It would be like digging down to get out of a hole. They are excellent engines though,fun to drive and reliable.
I've been contemplating maybe a 3.0 DOHC swap from a Taurus,Escape or similar.. I would have to work a harness and sensors to run with a GM PCM though i've decided. Tuning support for anything Ford sucks that I can tell/looked in to.
I don't want to try a 4.6/5.4 swap though I would have as many spare parts as I needed. Same for the 3.0,we have 3 of them around back of our Ford shop that have been there for over a year that I could take. None are DOHC though,which I would want if I went to the trouble. Pretty sure there is a 3.0 FWD cradle out back also (unless it's a van rear suspension cradle).
Most of these have been passing ideas,cause i'm a GM guy and really don't care for Fords at all (though i'm a Ford tech)
More than likely whatever I use will be decided by coming across a great deal on X parts car. They're all pretty easy swaps anyway,I don't really want to weld though.
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07:39 PM
Oct 20th, 2009
fieroboy_gt Member
Posts: 324 From: Lewiston, Maine, USA Registered: Mar 2007
Oh dame is that whar you final paint an everything came out to be. Im currently doing the same headlight mode to my Big block. that is a sharp looking car. I had a similar paint idea. i was gonna two tone using the trim as a divider line. that is not only the fastest fiero ever but one of the sharpest ever as well
Oh dame is that whar you final paint an everything came out to be. Im currently doing the same headlight mode to my Big block. that is a sharp looking car. I had a similar paint idea. i was gonna two tone using the trim as a divider line. that is not only the fastest fiero ever but one of the sharpest ever as well
I like bmwguru's lines better... March '08
[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 10-20-2009).]
at last check (a few months ago) the 3400 was a direct swap... correct me if im wrong, but it uses existing mounts, bolts right up to the bell of the tranny, and uses the stock 2.8 ecu. only the starter mounting needs to be redrilled. this is a bit of a motive. cuz i hear 3800's are a pain to wire.
ok the 3.4 pushrod camero motor is a nearly direct swap, the 3400 aluminum head is a total pain in the butt. basically do a complete new wiring harness using a 7730 or obd II, but you retain the 60 degree sound, you get good mileage fair performance, and boosted they become a whole new animal. Chance- 88coupe 3100 swap 3400 in waiting
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02:35 PM
hookdonspeed Member
Posts: 7980 From: baltimore, md Registered: May 2008
the 3400 aluminum head is a total pain in the butt. basically do a complete new wiring harness using a 7730 or obd II,
not that bad if you understand wiring at all.... and the 3400 from saya 98, uses the same ecu as the 3800, just diffrent code/tune, so not much diffrent from wiring a 3800, just no custom mounts and no having to make the flywheel fit, slap on a 88 flywheel and your GTG.
If you're already doing a SHO motor, why not do a Nissan VQ-35 engine. Came as a FWD in the Altima and is basically bulletproof. Nissan/Infinity uses that in nearly every car they make.
j/k I have no idea what it's called,it's the 3.0 DOHC from a FWD Ford Escape. Never heard it called that,then again I know nothing of anything Ford from aftermarket. I fix them,have no idea really what interchanges between them or what the "street" names are for the trans/engines. I fix stock Ford/Lincoln/Mercury at the dealership,but only mod GM's myself. I would buy an oscar myer weinermobile before I bought a Ford. (Though i'm 50/50 on my mid-life crisis car-always been a Z06,now leaning to a GT500 or Ford GT)
6G72 is a 3.0 V6 Mitsubishi motor also used by Chrysler, found in the Diamante, 3000GT, LeBaron and thousands of minivans. You'd want one of the 24V versions (both SOHC 24V and DOHC 24V heads are out there). The 12V version isn't much different in output than a 2.8 or 3.1 V6.
I have no idea what it's called,it's the 3.0 DOHC from a FWD Ford Escape.
A Duratech 30
quote
Originally posted by BluEyes: The 12V version isn't much different in output than a 2.8 or 3.1 V6.
Have you ever driven one? The power band is great. I have no doubts a healthy engine would pull away from both the 2.8 and 3.1. I wouldn't swap a 12v though, too much work. (:
Doth my eyes decieve me? I see light under the tires.
