quote Originally posted by fieroX: The big turn on for me, the wheelies!

If i had the choice of a hot chick or wheelies id have to go for wheelies your right that is a turn on.

.

The 3800SC is capable of making more power than a 3400 engine. The thing that I like about the 3800 is that GM made 25 million of them and the record of reliability is rock solid. However, it is now a discontinued engine and the 60* V6 is now the only one that GM makes. If you look at these new offerings like the 3900 & 3500 they breath well and are capabale of generating good horsepower with a few simple mods but they are difficult swaps. .

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: but they are difficult swaps. .

Huh? who told you that garbage? Perhaps they are *less documented* swaps, but I would find it absolutely impossible to believe that they are more difficult. Granted, I have not done mine yet, but, I'd be willing to bet you haven't done one either.

I think the only reason the 3X00 swap is not a more popular swap (especially compared to the 3800) is the fact that the 3800 is boosted from the factory.

Just an FYI, on only 8-10 PSI people make 400 WHP on 3400's and 3500's. With just a cam, a tune, and a good exhaust, a 3500 is capable of 275.

I will report back once I get my first one done, but I've got several cars/engines to swap so I plan on doing it more than once.

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The List;
1) 84 Rabbit diesel 4spd (55+ MPG of daily driving fun) 2) 95 BMW 325i 5 spd (Wife's car)
3) 98 Jetta TDI (to replace the rabbit) 4) 87 Fiero 3800 S1 S/C 5spd (almost road ready)
5) 87 Fiero coupe 5spd FOR SALE
6) 85 S10 diesel 5spd (engine donor) 7) 84 S10 (reveiver)
8) 84 S10 2.5 5spd FOR SALE 9) 87 GMC S15 2.8 5spd parts truck
10) 91 Mercedes 190E (diesel 5spd swap) 11) 84 Mercedes 190D (donor)
12) 87 GT (7730 ecm, 3500, izusu 5spd swap soon) 13) 88 Fiero coupe (Parts car)

As far as 3400 or 3800 the engine's being better I will say the 3800 has more support has be built more and easier to find HP parts . Can the 3400 be made to run hard and as hard as a 3800 sure but it will take more money if you plan on high HP but if you stay around stock like just a cam change then you should be able to get the same preformace . I am comparing N/A to N/A not like some like to do take the 3800 SC and compare it to a N/A 3400 isnt a fair compareson.

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: Huh? who told you that garbage? Perhaps they are *less documented* swaps, but I would find it absolutely impossible to believe that they are more difficult. Granted, I have not done mine yet, but, I'd be willing to bet you haven't done one either. I think the only reason the 3X00 swap is not a more popular swap (especially compared to the 3800) is the fact that the 3800 is boosted from the factory. Just an FYI, on only 8-10 PSI people make 400 WHP on 3400's and 3500's. With just a cam, a tune, and a good exhaust, a 3500 is capable of 275. I will report back once I get my first one done, but I've got several cars/engines to swap so I plan on doing it more than once.

Its a simple logical statement. Any swap involving an engine that has active fuel management (VVT) and complex torque management in the program has got to be more difficult to get running correctly.
The 3800SC has more software editiing support, more hardware aftermarket support, none of the above features to deal with and because it is more documented it makes it easier to do. I will agree that the 3500 and 3900's are capable of making excellent horsepower (especially boosted) and they are good engines but as yet we haven't seen many of these swaps done in Fieros. I can only guess that it is because of the complexities involved. There is probably a solution to these so lets hope that these become public knowlegde so that there swaps become more practical to attempt.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Its a simple logical statement. Any swap involving an engine that has active fuel management (VVT) and complex torque management in the program has got to be more difficult to get running correctly. The 3800SC has more software editiing support, more hardware aftermarket support, none of the above features to deal with and because it is more documented it makes it easier to do. I will agree that the 3500 and 3900's are capable of making excellent horsepower (especially boosted) and they are good engines but as yet we haven't seen many of these swaps done in Fieros. I can only guess that it is because of the complexities involved. There is probably a solution to these so lets hope that these become public knowlegde so that there swaps become more practical to attempt.

Alright, I will cut you some slack on your previous statement

I mostly said what i said becuase the OP asked about the 3400, so I was not thinking VVT or active fuel management at all (this is why I am cutting slack)

With that said. There are 3500's without VVT, I'm pretty sure they don't have active fuel management (some 3900's do though). a 3500 without VVT should be a *fairly* easy swap, as should a 3400 or 3100 also.

I'm also doing it what I feel is the easiest way, I'm doing a 7730 ECM swap on my car, which should greatly simplify things I would think. I will let you know how it goes when I get started on it

-Brandon

you know what i like about these types of post never apples to apples when it comes to 3800 the only thing that is ever used is the 3800 SC. now it is a good engine but to just say it makes more power yes it should it has a power adder unlike the 3400. take a 3400 Naturaly Aspirated to a 3800 Naturaly Aspirated they make almost the same power

quote Originally posted by Australian: If i had the choice of a hot chick or wheelies id have to go for wheelies your right that is a turn on. .

Speaking of wheelies and Fieros.. I will show you this picture of my car if you pomise to not start humping the monitor..

Edit: 3800 FTW..



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[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 10-23-2009).]

3800>3500>3.4 DOHC>3400>3100>3.1>2.8>4.9

quote Originally posted by Emc209i: 3500>3800>3.4 DOHC>3400>3100>3.1>2.8>4.9

fixed it for ya

I'm curious how 221ft lb of torque is > 280 ft lb. :P

There are a ton of 3800s out there and their reputation for reliability is outstanding. I can't say the same for the newer stuff. They may be OK generally, but there's also been a lot of teething problems from what I hear.

quote Originally posted by Emc209i: I'm curious how 221ft lb of torque is > 280 ft lb. :P

I agree.. The 3.5 is a great engine, but the 3800 has a KILLER torque/HP curve and makes more power just off idle than the 3.5 makes at peak..

If you want to smoke Vipers and C6-Z06 Vettes you want the 3800 s/c.. The engine is built for boost and you can make some serious power with a few easy mods..


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[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 10-23-2009).]

quote Originally posted by engine man: you know what i like about these types of post never apples to apples when it comes to 3800 the only thing that is ever used is the 3800 SC. now it is a good engine but to just say it makes more power yes it should it has a power adder unlike the 3400. take a 3400 Naturaly Aspirated to a 3800 Naturaly Aspirated they make almost the same power

I know the 3400 in my impala only makes 170 hp, or about that much. My mom's lesabre with the N/A 3800 makes at least 205.

that said 3800 not 3800sc, and NA to NA the 3500 stomps the 3800 for a swap, less work, less custom, and is a ligher engine for the same output.

l36 was 205 hp (153 kW) and 230 lb·ft

lx9 " Power output ranges from 196 hp (146 kW) to 201 hp (150 kW), torque ranges from 213 lb·ft (289 N·m) to 221 lb·ft (300 N·m)."

not needing a new flywheel, and custom mounts, makes the loss of 15hp worth to me... and you can boost the 3500's just as well as the 3800sc's, just pff members seem to be hating on the 60degree engines for whatever reason.

quote Originally posted by Mr Ferrari: If you want to smoke Vipers and C6-Z06 Vettes you want the 3800 s/c.. The engine is built for boost and you can make some serious power with a few easy mods..

Haha, I think your experience may vary. Your engine is making close to 500 crank now isn't it? Not to say that's hard to squeeze out of a 3800, but for an out of a box install, 280 tq is kind of nice to have. Then you get bored one weekend, spend, $200 and upgrade the thermostat, plugs, and pulley and you're making 300+ crank.

Having owned a DOHC powered Fiero, and driven a 3500 powered car, I'm still up the air about which I'd prefer over the other. I'm leaning towards the 3500 for reliability issues. The 3500 sounds really good too. Luckily I don't have to decide, because I own a 3800 Fiero. :P

I'm not ragging on the 3500 engines. But they did have a buttload of problems, (as well as the other newer generation engines), with leaking intake manifolds. The problems were epidemic enough to cause GM to rethink their gasket technology in the middle of the 2003 model year. And sorry to say, it added to their quality reputation woes. My 5.7 Suburban had to have them replaced @ 160K as well. There is no GM engine with a better rep than the 3800, and torque is better. Torque is more fun to drive. Ask any 4.9 Fiero owner.

quote Originally posted by weaselbeak: I'm not ragging on the 3500 engines. But they did have a buttload of problems, (as well as the other newer generation engines), with leaking intake manifolds. The problems were epidemic enough to cause GM to rethink their gasket technology in the middle of the 2003 model year. And sorry to say, it added to their quality reputation woes. My 5.7 Suburban had to have them replaced @ 160K as well. There is no GM engine with a better rep than the 3800, and torque is better. Torque is more fun to drive. Ask any 4.9 Fiero owner.

it was the 3400 that had the intake gasket problems, that was "fixed" in the 3500/3900 series.

The 3800 S2 N/A also has a problem with EGR ports in the intake manifold rotting out... GM never acknowledged the problem and only Dorman, of all companies, made a S2 intake manfold out of a better forumlation of plastic to correct the issue. All engines have their problems. Even the DOHC is not really a low reliability unit... it just has a timing belt that needs to be changed once every 60000 miles... whoopty doo, once every 5 years...

Well if you just want a stock engine then there are many choices 60 degree 3400,3.4 dohc 3.5 or 3.9 90 degree you can do 3800 N/A or SC and a 4.3 need adaptor but fo the few out there and it preforms. you just gota ask your self what you realy want make a list then see what engine matches up to your list best. when it comes to making power all will make good power if you know how to get it out of them and use the right parts and they all will be strong

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: My 3800 in my bird just proved its not a bullett proof motor but i still swear my life by it. I beat it up and babied it and it just went on me a month ago but this has been the only problem it has ever givin me.

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous statement, I abused it and it seized, aside from that it was the **** . That's hugely contradictory.

I like the 60* because it seems to be an easier fit and it sounds cool. My 88GT will be getting a 3400/3500 when the 2.8 gives up the ghost. I have an L67 car which if I decide to stick with it will get a built trans (just bought a spare to build), and I'll build a new motor 300whp on $1500 in mods and 12s isn't too shabby. (headers, cam, springs, 3.2)

quote Originally posted by hookdonspeed: it was the 3400 that had the intake gasket problems, that was "fixed" in the 3500/3900 series.

Changed and fixed are two different things. The guys at my auto yard haven't seen any improvement.

quote Originally posted by weaselbeak: Changed and fixed are two different things. The guys at my auto yard haven't seen any improvement.

well, like hookdonspeed said, I've never heard or seen a 3500/3900 with an intake gasket or head gasket problem, ever. 3400's on the other hand I can find five within a few 100 miles of me easy on craigslist.

-Brandon

p.s. unless you can show that this is still a problem, then I will change my mind.