quote Originally posted by 30+mpg: r u lo? https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050410-1-044648.html

Haha! "let mo' lo flow" Good stuff.

Edit to do teh pwn teh page dance...

[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 02-12-2009).]

thesprings on the 84-87s are really wimpy. If after you cut your coils your car rides stiff, more than likely you are on the bumpstops.

I cut 1.5ish coils from my 87 coupe and it rode really stiff up front (right above tire). I assumed it was from the lowering. I decided to remove the bumpstops for a future front suspension project and the car tucked the wheels. It was retarded low, and with me in the car it darn near fell to the ground. Braking was terrible, cornering was shot.

I would suggest stiffer springs even for a non-lowered car. The suspension is waay soft in stock form.

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S.W.A.T.

thanks paul for this thread it seems cutting springs has been the topic lately already a few threads started recently im getting ready to do this myself once i find my spring compressors i have to wait to due the rears since im missing the motor and from everything Ive read you have to give the springs a few weeks to settle. if you do become successful document it for others as much heat that there is about the topic if the info is useful then it can help others.

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[This message has been edited by 86stealthfiero (edited 02-13-2009).]

I totally agree with swapping out the suspension for a more favorable, stiffer lowering system, but my goal isn't long term. I'm simply doing this to make a halfway decent looking Fiero to take to Daytona. For those of you that are considering this as a long term solution, you should, at the very least, replace your shocks all the way around, since you're already riding on a 20+ year old suspension (most likely), and that will help with bottoming out.
Adjustable coilovers are obviously the best choice, but not all of us have the funds to throw at something like that. For those of you that haven't seen it yet, allow me to hijack my thread for a moment and direct you to the thread detailing how to make your own rear coilovers.
Lots of good info there.
I used to have a 1980 Toyota SR5 pickup truck that had the torsion springs on the front. At one point in time, I completely removed the front springs, and blocked the rear leafs down 2.5", so I'm pretty familiar with what riding on bump stops feels like... Let me be the first to tell you that it was ROUGH!!

I will have to post pictures of a way a buddy aka fourpointnine and I figured out how to put readily available 2.5" i.d. springs in the front of the early suspension. This helps alot becasue you dont have to guess at what spring rate intrax or suspension techniques has. You can get any rate you want to match/balance your suspension, and I got my Afco springs for around 20 dollars each.

I am runnign 400# springs front and rear and I love it. For the amount of lowering I like they work out perfect to keep the car from bottoming out, and plenty of travel.

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S.W.A.T.

quote Originally posted by SpeedWorksAutoTuning: I will have to post pictures of a way a buddy aka fourpointnine and I figured out how to put readily available 2.5" i.d. springs in the front of the early suspension. This helps alot becasue you dont have to guess at what spring rate intrax or suspension techniques has. You can get any rate you want to match/balance your suspension, and I got my Afco springs for around 20 dollars each. I am runnign 400# springs front and rear and I love it. For the amount of lowering I like they work out perfect to keep the car from bottoming out, and plenty of travel.

Hey! I know Steve! He's a great guy. I used to drop by his house when he was working on his rockers. I used to live about 5 blocks from him, and right before I moved, I sold him a 3.4L DOHC engine... I told him he could have it, but he insisted on giving me some money for it, which actually helped out a lot with my move. Last I heard it was going in his wife's car, but I haven't heard from him lately... Do you live close to him? What's he up to these days? I've sent him a couple of emails & PMs, but never heard back from him.

he still has the motor sitting on the engine stand. He's been really busy as far as I know.

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S.W.A.T.

A few more points:

1) Cutting coils does increase the spring rate, though possibly not as much as aftermarket lowering springs already come with.

2) Cutting the same amount of coils from one Fiero to the next may not produce the same results. Springs wear out over time and lower the car some already, Fieros can have differing weights, and the factory made slightly different spring heights for Fieros depending on the factory options (that's the 3 letter code on the spring, like PUC or PUD).

3) If this is all you do, expect the perceived handling to increase and the actual handling to decrease.

4) Moderately lowered Fieros look GOOD.

That is all.

quote Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez: Ummmmmm I dont buy it !!! The rear strut coils only have about 6 total. I was just putting my rear suspension back on today, if there were 2 5/8 coils cut the spring would not beach the hat before the strut bottomed out. ............

I don't buy the 2-5/8 coils in the rear either IMHO.
Here is the before and after shot of taking 1 coil out - much more and the coils would become loose when the suspension is unloaded...
You remove it from the top where the diameter doesn't change - also keep in mind that top coil is closer than the rest.
How you could remove 2-5/8 from the stock 84-87 rear McPhearson struts is beyond me.

quote Originally posted by Fiero2m8: O.K. I decided to limit the suspension work to some minimal mods. This project is already a big undertaking and since I want to be back on the road this spring I need to avoid getting too sidetracked. Since I will probably eventually go to rear coilovers and rebuild the front suspension, it seemed like a good time to experiment with the stock ride height. If it doesn't work out no biggie, as this is 20 year old stock stuff anyways... With the rear supension, I managed to remove a coil without complete disassemby and then grinded, sanded and repainted the rear struts. Before: After: Upon closer inspection on the front suspension, it was quite apparent that the original shocks were still in place! Once I removed them I confirmed that they were strictly ornamental, as they operated as freely as a trombone Here are the poor guys beside the new KYB's: Next with the sway bar links removed and to be replaced, I took 1-1/2 coils out of the front springs without removing the suspension. In order to do this you need to use a 4-1/2" cutoff grinder. Step 1 - cut at the 1-1/2 coil mark from the bottom . Step 2 - remove the unwanted piece by cutting in into 3rds and pulling out. Step 3 - remove the front bump stops. Here is the spring ready to be cut: Pieces of front coil removed: This is the front passenger suspension with shortened spring mod, new KYB shock and sway bar link installed Fiero2m8

LOL - Wow I was lazy cutting springs without removing them!
Safety first Fieroboom

I think I've just about decided to go with homemade coilovers in the rear... I sourced a wide selection of springs on ebay @ $12.99 + shipping all day long. Now if I can just find a reliable source of the adjusting collars for a good deal, I'll be in business...
Oh, and if you buy from him, please be sure to let him know that ebay user lynn.mason (my fiance's login... more feedback...) sent you...

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: I think I've just about decided to go with homemade coilovers in the rear... I sourced a wide selection of springs on ebay @ $12.99 + shipping all day long. Now if I can just find a reliable source of the adjusting collars for a good deal, I'll be in business... Oh, and if you buy from him, please be sure to let him know that ebay user lynn.mason (my fiance's login... more feedback...) sent you...

So heres where this gets amazing.......look at the link below. Normally there are no cheap coil over sleeves and adjusting nuts. Most are about $40-$60 per sleeve......so why not just get one of the kits below, toss out the springs, and there you have 4 sleeves for a great price

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: So heres where this gets amazing.......look at the link below. Normally there are no cheap coil over sleeves and adjusting nuts. Most are about $40-$60 per sleeve......so why not just get one of the kits below, toss out the springs, and there you have 4 sleeves for a great price http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Yeah, except that you're paying through the nose for them to ship the springs you're going to toss... $18.95 + $30 shipping = $48.95. Maybe I'm just being a little too frugal (read cheap )...
Also, They don't mention the I.D. of the sleeves... I'll a message & inquire though.
The springs I found are $12.99 + $16.86 = $29.85 each... Assuming he doesn't combine shipping, that's $59.70, plus the $48.95 for the sleeves puts the total at $108.65.
If I've got to spend that much, then I'll just get the whole Fiero kit for $149.99 + $19.99 shipping, which includes the springs, sleeves, lockrings, centering spring perches, and the wrenches.

I understand the cost issue. I have been looking for a good longer set of sleeves and Afco sells them for $60.00 each. I just cannot buy a piece of aluminum for that price....let alone 2 for $120.00. Here is what I am talking about.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

If you happen to come across a decent source, let me know.

Well, now see ya got me wanting lower my Fiero now that its running. I will be researching the cheapest possible ways to do coilovers in the rear and cut the springs in the front. If anyone comes up with a nice cheap solution let me know.

-Joe

quote Originally posted by Fiero2m8: How you could remove 2-5/8 from the stock 84-87 rear McPhearson struts is beyond me.

OMG

LMAO

How you cannot comprehend is beyond me.



It's amusing, yet frustrating at the same time...if that makes sense. If I seriously have to get a camera and lift the car for pictures, I'm gonna kick your ass

Edit: I just went out and compared the cut springs to some stock units that I have laying around. The springs are in fact different, in that the coil spacings are not the same. These are both springs from an 87 SE, however the spacing is greater on the cut spring vs the uncut.

Now I can see why there is confusion...
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87 SE 60* Turbo

Screw the L67...

[This message has been edited by AutoTech (edited 02-14-2009).]

you really need to know the I.D. of the ebay kits and most of the sellers have no idea. "its about two inches" but that just about two inches means a snug fit on the stock/monroe struts and not fitting at all on the KYB's. I think the Konis are smaller diameter

I went with a ebay kit for the sleeves. You need to find a seller that can measure the i.d. of the sleeve and confirm that they are over 2".

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S.W.A.T.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: I understand the cost issue. I have been looking for a good longer set of sleeves and Afco sells them for $60.00 each. I just cannot buy a piece of aluminum for that price....let alone 2 for $120.00. Here is what I am talking about. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW If you happen to come across a decent source, let me know.

Well, I found just the sleeves for $18.95 ea, but no perches, etc... So I guess if you're just swapping out sleeves, that's what you'd want, assuming your perches & locknuts are compatible...
But then again, I found the sleeves with perches & locknuts for $39.95 ea, but they're only 4"
I'll keep hunting...

EDIT:
EDO Performance is being very helpful... They just sent me an email:

quote Sent by yohann@edoperformance.com: Hello Paul, Can you please send me the length and dimension of the sleeve you’re looking for? I can request Skunk2 to see if they have any thing near that size. Yohann Chao AIM: EDO Yohann EDOPerformance.com Office 714-602-5741

And here's my response back to him:

quote Sent by fieroboom@grandesigns.net: Yohann, Thanks so much for the reply. I'm in search of sleeves that will fit over a stock rear strut on a Pontiac Fiero. I know I'm looking for 5" in length, and about 2 1/2 - 2 5/8" in diameter. For a better idea, you can see this ebay listing: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...dZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Or this from Summit racing's website: http://store.summitracing.c...467+115&autoview=sku I just can't really justify spending $60 each on some small pieces of aluminum, and was hoping you (or Skunk2) might have something a little more reasonable. Again, thank you for your time. -Paul Allen

[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 02-16-2009).]

My sleeves were just a shade over 2" and fit like a glove, once I stripped the paint from the casing of the strut. I also had to gently heat the sleeve up to expand it before sliding it on. A very tight fit.



(Note - this image shows the first attempt to get it on, without heating. It jammed where it was because, whilst I had removed the paint, I also needed to file down the edges of the part number stampings, which were slightly raised.)

quote Originally posted by Madscanner: My sleeves were just a shade over 2" and fit like a glove, once I stripped the paint from the casing of the strut. I also had to gently heat the sleeve up to expand it before sliding it on. A very tight fit. (Note - this image shows the first attempt to get it on, without heating. It jammed where it was because, whilst I had removed the paint, I also needed to file down the edges of the part number stampings, which were slightly raised.)

Yeah, I saw your post in the DIY rear coilovers thread, and forgot to ask what your I.D. was. Thanks for sharing; that's very helpful info. By saying 'a shade over', are we talking about a quarter inch, eighth..? Maybe less? Just trying to narrow it down a little more so I can have a min & max for measurements...

If anyone can find out where you can get everything. Please post I'm also interested in doing the same thing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...0293284259QQtcZphoto

Get this kit or one like it. the Id is 2" and will fit on your oem strut. your not going to move your ride height often and when you do it will be less then 4". if you go to the hardware store and buy some 2" id gas pip. Cut it the desired length, slide it on before your sleeve and your set. You could probably get away with exhaust pipe. Or if you don't plan to use the other 4" sleeve just use it.

A lot of you gus need to start reading the actual downsides to what you are doing here. CUTTING COILS IS DANGEROUS. Infact here it is even illegal because it is dangerous. I am pretty sure many USA states have similar safety standards.
http://www.google.com.au/se...=Google+Search&meta=

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: A lot of you gus need to start reading the actual downsides to what you are doing here. CUTTING COILS IS DANGEROUS. Infact here it is even illegal because it is dangerous. I am pretty sure many USA states have similar safety standards. http://www.google.com.au/se...=Google+Search&meta=

First, let me say that I respect your concern and appreciate your input. However... I used your google search link, as well as did some research on my own, and every single webpage I came across that mentioned the dangers was either a forum, or a blog, which is all hearsay and rumors (as far as I'm concerned), and not factual data. I never found any factual data, nor did I find anywhere (factual) that it's illegal (including google.com.au). I did find that almost every .au search result was a forum, and every single one of them said it's illegal, so I would assume you are correct, just couldn't find any laws or statues concerning it.

What I did find were some references and some math equations to more accurately cut your springs and achieve the result you want:
http://www.eatonsprings.com...ingsCalculations.htm
And here is some good general reference data published by Eaton (pdf file):
http://www.eatonsprings.com/SpringTech101.pdf

All that being said, here are the pros & cons of both sides as I see it (I always try to see things from all points of view):

Coil Cutting Pros:
- Lowers the ride height, achieves the overall goal
- Low cost DIY
- Procedure is fairly quick

Coil Cutting Cons:
- Suspension has a shorter travel at pretty much the same spring rate (it does increase, but not much by comparison to the shortened travel) which is asking to bottom out
- There could possibly be a danger if the system becomes unloaded, and the spring doesn't reseat properly on the perch (not to mention it would be a PITA)
- It could possibly be illegal in your neck of the woods
- Disassembly could possibly be dangerous for someone that isn't fully aware & educated on safety around coil springs (they can be/are VERY nasty!!)
- Due to the spring rate not changing much, body roll and poor handling is still an issue

Coil Over Pros
- The same result is achieved, but with a stiffer spring rate, giving less chance of bottoming out
- Body roll and poor handling are both better corrected with a higher spring rate
- Safer due to the fact that the spring can't become unloaded & unseated from the perch
- If you get tired of the height, they're adjustable

Coil Over Cons
- They cost a lot
- They're expensive
- They're out of a lot of people's budgets
- They require more money
- Cost

hehe...
So there you have it. It's agreed that coil overs are much safer and the better way to do things, but I'll let you decide for yourself if you feel the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

As for me, I'm still in search of a well-priced, reliable supply of the pieces needed for Fiero coil over conversions, both front and rear. When I started this thread, I didn't consider the softness of the spring coupled with the shorter travel and how that might affect handling, but it makes a lot of sense to go ahead and stiffen the springs up with coilovers. I'll post the deals I find in this thread, but only if it's a guaranteed price that we can consistently get (ie, no single $12 auctions).
Thanks!

Well it isnt hearsay when the practice is banned here, and as I said, probably most states there too. Automotive engineers know what they are doing when they design components. Cut your springs in this country your car will be defected as unroadworthy. Have an accident with cut springs in your car and you insurance company can refuse payment as you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle.

Check with your own insurance company. I bet they wont cover you if you hit a bump and bottom out because of your cut springs, causing you to have an accident.

You can try back it up wilth all the pros and cons you want but it is plain out dangerous and stupid thing to do. Come on, a set of proper lowering coils costs next to nothing. Do it right. It is not only your lives you risk out on the roads when you start modifiying cars in a dangerous manner.

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: Well it isnt hearsay when the practice is banned here, and as I said, probably most states there too. Automotive engineers know what they are doing when they design components. Cut your springs in this country your car will be defected as unroadworthy. Have an accident with cut springs in your car and you insurance company can refuse payment as you are driving an unroadworthy vehicle. Check with your own insurance company. I bet they wont cover you if you hit a bump and bottom out because of your cut springs, causing you to have an accident. You can try back it up wilth all the pros and cons you want but it is plain out dangerous and stupid thing to do. Come on, a set of proper lowering coils costs next to nothing. Do it right. It is not only your lives you risk out on the roads when you start modifiying cars in a dangerous manner.

I hope you didn't think I was trying to justify anything... I was simply putting the information out as I perceive it. In fact, I thought I made it clear that I was shooting for lowering springs... (as a result of your input)

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: I hope you didn't think I was trying to justify anything... I was simply putting the information out as I perceive it. In fact, I thought I made it clear that I was shooting for lowering springs... (as a result of your input)

Don't mind me. Early morning perception is not my greater point. That was a pre cuppa post

I'm sure most of you won't agree or even like this, but I thought I'd share what I'm going to try...



This way I can just get the cheap springs and not be out much at all. To me, it doesn't really matter about looks, because that's going to be behind the rim/tire, and since I don't have any big, gorgeous, open rims right now, it'll hide pretty well.
The two flat pieces can be made out of some flat stock with minimal sawing & drilling skills required, then grab some all-thread rod from Home Depot, and either tap the bottom holes and add some locknuts, or weld the all-thread rod in as a stud. Top plate gets a nut on the top & bottom of it. To adjust it, just loosen the two top nuts, evenly adjust the two nuts below the top plate, then tighten down the top nuts again to lock it in place.

If you dont cut the perches completely off, and rest the sleeve on top of it, the 4" sleeve will be more than enough if you order the correct length spring. I think I use a 8 incher, but I will have to measure to be sure. I have done it this way a few times. With this setup all the way down my car sits right above the tire, almost a tuck. So, I have about 3.5 inches to go UP.

No need to go hacking away at your strut body possibly blowing it out. You can trim down the perch plenty to clear a fat wheel tire package the wheel tire package.

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S.W.A.T.

quote Originally posted by SpeedWorksAutoTuning: If you dont cut the perches completely off, and rest the sleeve on top of it, the 4" sleeve will be more than enough if you order the correct length spring. I think I use a 8 incher, but I will have to measure to be sure. I have done it this way a few times. With this setup all the way down my car sits right above the tire, almost a tuck. So, I have about 3.5 inches to go UP. No need to go hacking away at your strut body possibly blowing it out. You can trim down the perch plenty to clear a fat wheel tire package the wheel tire package.

You use an 8" spring? Heh, that's info I need to know... I was going off of the make-your-own thread, and he used 12" springs.... Could you get me an exact spring length measurement at your earliest convenience please? I want about .5-.75" wheel gap, so if 12" is not going to drop that low, I need to know before I go tossing $$ at them!
Thanks!
-Paul

it all depends on your sleeve. If you cut the perch off, and run the sleeve all the way resting on the mounting points like the photo a few posts up, then you will need a 12" spring, If you get shorter sleeve and rest it on the perch, trim the excess perch if it makes you feel better, a 8 inch spring will suffice.

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S.W.A.T.

quote Originally posted by SpeedWorksAutoTuning: it all depends on your sleeve. If you cut the perch off, and run the sleeve all the way resting on the mounting points like the photo a few posts up, then you will need a 12" spring, If you get shorter sleeve and rest it on the perch, trim the excess perch if it makes you feel better, a 8 inch spring will suffice.

Ah, ok, I see what you're saying. Thanks!
-Paul

Just cut the front 2 coils and rear 1.5

Rides lower, accelerates faster, fun little ride now

Here's mine with rear coilovers dropped down a couple of inches and the front springs cut down by one coil each.

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'85 SE 2M6 automatic (Left-hand drive)
'84 SE 2M4 manual (Right-hand drive)
'98 Ford Mondeo Si
'73 Peugeot 304 S Cabriolet

just a thought does anyone know if the front springs could be used on the rear. it was just a thought i came across when reading the thread over again.

The front springs may be too soft for the rear. I don't have the numbers to back it up though.