One way to lower the number of leds could be the use of light pipes.


This could allow you to use less leds to light more of an area.

quote Originally posted by FieroJam: One way to lower the number of leds could be the use of light pipes. This could allow you to use less leds to light more of an area.

I looked into that. I have an idea for "angel eye" style rear lighting...

I will have to test my idea.

Hehehe... Adding pictures of my third brake light LED conversion.

Ordered the rest of the LEDs. I need to finish the actual tail lamp boards, but I finally have the parts I need.

These are shots of the current third lamp, as well as a photo of the third lamp along with incandescent tail lights. Passenger side is dimmer only because of the angle.

Bump.

No more interest?

Perhaps a night shot of the entire set-up might help persuade folks.

Cheers, Derek

quote Originally posted by macphail8: Perhaps a night shot of the entire set-up might help persuade folks. Cheers, Derek

I agree with Derek, once we get a chance to see a complete setup I believe you will definitely have more then mere interests. I am glad to see that you are pushing ahead with this project and yes I am looking forward to having a set for my 88GT.

What price did you have in mind for a complete product when done?

I am still determining price for these.

Part of the issue is: The tail light housings will need to be modified, unless I can find someone skilled enough with fiberglass to make a back panel for the lights to fit into, but that the lenses will clip onto.

For the Notchback "Stock" replacement assemblies, each individual light will consist of 48 LEDs. (Possibly more as I get them built and see the results). There are 3 red lights per side. That means 144 LEDs per side for the minimum amount.

On top of that, there is a small control box that handles the "park" light aspect of the LEDs and the full on of the brake lights.

For the notchback lights, with the control box, the pre-assembled LED Boards, and the necessary wiring to install them in your own housings which you modify... 300. This also includes a third brake light module. 250 without the third lamp.

If you want a set that are cut to fit the stock reflectors without modifying the panel... I have to look into those, as the boards will need to be made separately.

Either way, I am working on this, and hoping to have a full set finished by mid-April.

Notchback-only so far?

quote Originally posted by CTFieroGT87: Notchback-only so far?

I need to find a set of GT lights, don't care how rough they are as long as the back plate is in good shape, the lenses can be de-laminated for all I care.

The good and bad side of the LED lights is: The panel will require modding the back panel (Reflector) side of the light housings. Cutting out sections and laying in a piece of plastic or something, then sealing in place. Good part is, no lens mods needed.

If I build the panels that just sit inside of the reflectors, they will be LED, but won't give the "seamless" look I am trying to get between each reflector.

I will leave that up to you guys to decide.

I just need a set of lights to play with, and then we can talk GTs.

bump

Well, after finishing mine, I can tell you theres no way I'd do another set for less than say $500. So many hours are involved in doing them one off. If a back plate was designed and manufactured to spec, then I can see making many sets and the assembly not being too killer. But then the overhead starts creeping up in the price.

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Christian
87 Pontiac Fiero GT Burgandy/Silver 5.7L ZZ4 5spd, 88 suspension, C6 polished wheels, C5 Z06 brakes, Konis, poly'd, Spec Stg 3, LED taillights
Next Mod: LT1 fuel injection with Megasquirt II
301rwhp/345rwtq
Stovebolt Powered!!!!!
06 Cobalt SS/SC w/ LSD (the slow DD)

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: I looked into that. I have an idea for "angel eye" style rear lighting... I will have to test my idea.

Not to hijack but here's my angel eye rear lights for your consideration:


With brakes:

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http://www.raceme.cc/helmet/

I have made significant progress on the panels for my car, but production may be very limited due to sourcing of proper components.
One of the Minnesota club members turned me onto the product last night. I called the manufacturer, but they are no longer making this product, so I cleaned out their stock.

Photos:






And a Youtube Video of the segment being tested. Note: This was taken with a cell phone, and the auto exposure could not be disabled to give you an idea of how truly bright the lights are.


I tore apart a housing tonight and started on the backplate to mount this board to. But I need to find a good set of Notchback tail lights here. I need the lenses to be in good shape, the back piece is going to be cut and modified, so I am unconcerned with the condition of that piece.

Anyone?

How much do you figure a set would run someone... if the production is going to be limited, but the price is right, I may want to secure a spot

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quote Originally posted by doublec4: How much do you figure a set would run someone... if the production is going to be limited, but the price is right, I may want to secure a spot

I would need to do some long term testing on the panels in the summer heat here in MN. I am not sure how well they would hold up elsewhere.

I will be mounting the panels to a piece of 1/4" Polycarbonate, and then cutting the "fingers" on the reflectors inside the housing in order to make it fit.

If all goes well, and I have enough of these panels left, I would be able to make a complete set of notchback tail light panel inserts for around 350.

If I have to start manufacturing boards and using the Lumileds LEDs instead of the panels, the price will go way up.

I'd be interested in just a third brake light set up for now...how much?

quote Originally posted by Maloso: I'd be interested in just a third brake light set up for now...how much?

Well, I may have enough of these LED boards left over to do 2-3 Third Brake Lights.

With what I have into them, and the labor, probably sitting around 75 shipped. Since I need to test the third lamp module in the heat down "South" such as California, Texas or FL, I'd do 60 shipped for a third light insert for heat and longevity testing. You would have to splice into your third lamp wiring, as it would not be a direct plug in.

I have made more progress on getting the LED panels mounted onto the substrate I am using.

I work in IT for a living for a Fortune 500 company.

I also moonlight at a machine shop with everything you could ever want to play with.

We even have a CNC.

On with the show.

I am using 1/4" Polycarbonate for the light backer panel. This panel will be inserted into the housing once I have modified the housings to hold them. This panel will then be epoxied in place.

The LED panels are mounted using button head Allen screws which are countersunk through the Poly. A nut is then placed on the screw and tightened to hold it in place in the Poly. I then slide the panels down over the screws using the holes that are in between the panels.

A photo of the screws here, next to AZDave's Optidrive for scale.


A closeup of the panels with the screws coming through.


A view of the panel from the backside.


And an overall view of the panel from the top. Note the Optidrive for scale. Two panels cover the entire rear of the car.
These things are HUGE.


I have not begun soldering the panels together yet, or isolating the segments from each other. That will happen later today on this panel.

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Well, I may have enough of these LED boards left over to do 2-3 Third Brake Lights. With what I have into them, and the labor, probably sitting around 75 shipped. Since I need to test the third lamp module in the heat down "South" such as California, Texas or FL, I'd do 60 shipped for a third light insert for heat and longevity testing. You would have to splice into your third lamp wiring, as it would not be a direct plug in.

I'd be game for the longevity testing, how much wire splicing is involved?

quote Originally posted by Maloso: I'd be game for the longevity testing, how much wire splicing is involved?

Just the two wires at the top. Blue and black. Black is ground. Blue is third lamp.

My LED Third Lamp is a prototype using a different LED design than these new boards. Let me get my tails built properly, then I will see what I have left for building a third lamp.

I finalized the Driver's side panel today. I learned quite a few things about how to assemble the panel insert. This panel has some major overkill when it comes to the screws I have holding it together. 1/3rd the amount of screws, and some double sided tape are MORE than up to task of holding this assembly together.

Specs. There are 520 LEDs in one panel. When both panels are assembled and functional, there will be a total of 1024 LEDs assembled and lit. 16 LEDs will be on the panel, but will not light due to space constraints and traces being removed. No big deal with the light output this thing has. They will be located in the center of the panel in the very middle.

Running with a PWM module on the extreme lowest setting is just bright enough for park lamps without washing out in the sunlight.

Brake Lights are bright enough at full power to illuminate an entire room with enough light to work by.

There are 18 individual segments per side that can be triggered independently. For the sake of simplicity, and running on the road, I will only be illuminating the outer 11 or 12 segments until my micro-controller comes in.
This will also allow me to do some temperature and weather testing on the panels without risking all of the LEDs in one shot.

Photos.

Park Lights 50% duty cycle. (I will be running them closer to 30%.)


Park lights when viewed from almost 90 degrees on-edge. These things have an AMAZING viewing angle.


Brake Lights at full duty cycle.



Now that I have the first panel assembled and ready to go in, the second panel should be easier to work with. Once it is assembled and ready to install, I will be installing these into my Fiero.

Holy hell, looks bright enough to blind everyone behind you!

quote Originally posted by doublec4: Holy hell, looks bright enough to blind everyone behind you!

That is a concern of mine, hence the reason I will only be running 11 or 12 segments instead of a full 18 per side.
Should help reduce the brightness.
When I get the microcontroller, I will be able to run the brakes at a lower duty cycle than full on, which means I can then "strobe" the lights at full even with lights on.

Keep going, I'm still interested.....-Jason

Second panel is halfway done. Can't wait. Tomorrow I will finish the last half of the panel, and I may even be able to install them tomorrow night. The Epoxy Adhesive I use requires a minimum of 24 hours at room temperature to harden, but I think that if I snug things up and use it as a sealant, I should be able to get away with installing the lights immediately, before it cures.

Looks awesome. Keep up the good work.

Second panel is done. Ran into some issues with one of the LED banks, but I think I have resolved that. They are fragile enough that if you flex the board too much or too quickly, the LED dome pops off the board, causing the LED to fail.

Oh well, just BARELY had enough to complete this.

Looks good, some plain red plexiglass would look a little nicer than the stock red grid pattern lenses in my opinion. I've always disliked the grid lenses.

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quote Originally posted by doublec4: Looks good, some plain red plexiglass would look a little nicer than the stock red grid pattern lenses in my opinion. I've always disliked the grid lenses.

I think the grids are a distinctive "Pontiac" thing though. I thought about using a red Plexi, but I want the light diffused, as I don't want to see individual light points. I want a smooth even lighting all the way across, and may modify the diffusers by using red ones from a donor pair of lights in place of the white diffusers.

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Well, I may have enough of these LED boards left over to do 2-3 Third Brake Lights. With what I have into them, and the labor, probably sitting around 75 shipped. Since I need to test the third lamp module in the heat down "South" such as California, Texas or FL, I'd do 60 shipped for a third light insert for heat and longevity testing. You would have to splice into your third lamp wiring, as it would not be a direct plug in.

Still interested in picking up the LED 3rd brake light, do you have one you could ship?

Tony

[This message has been edited by Maloso (edited 04-20-2009).]

I would need to assemble one. I have all the parts to do so.

A better quality system using an etched board is available through Fieros.eu. He does ship stateside, and I am seeing about the feasibility of getting those boards shipped here for local assembly as well.
http://www.fieros.eu/?type=shop&page=323&lng=en

quote Originally posted by Fieromaniac: i would like to see your designs here is my first try with LED for the notchie i guess i will try something next set which is near to the original design or something with 4 red squares each side but with small led then

I love this, but where you have the rectangles outlined on either side I'd have the middle secion of those Rectangles Illuminated by Bulbs too.. We just recently started doing this to Auroras over on the Aurora forum, and I've wanted to do it to the Fiero TOO

quote Originally posted by 98Aurora: I like how everyone is wiring there taillights with LEDS, even the third brake light. Ok here is what I'm thinking. I have an 84 that does not have a 3rd brake light. I have an 86 parts car with the third brake lite, but I dont like the look of it in the back window.. So i've been thinking about getting a LED strip to go across the top of the back window, you wont really see it until you step on the brakes. any thoughts on it?

Look for a Cadillac Third Lamp that fits into the rear trunk lid. They go side to side all the way across.
Not sure what year, but start watching the Cadillacs in your area. You will see what I mean.

There you go.

Any progress on this.... i really love the idea of this mod but would wanna do it just for myself and possibly using pre existing leds ( like the round ones on the back of busses but smaller) any new info or anything you could share on this subject?
Ryan