i called a junkyard looking for fiero parts the other day and a guy said he had a turbo motor he had pulled out of a fiero. said it looked like a factory install with orange plenum that said turbo on it. is it possible that pontiac made a few of these and it wound up there or did somebody drop in a sunbird turbo motor?

There Was A Prototype Made ..But Its Not In His Junkyard Thats For Sure

Prob Just A Sunbird Motor

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"This car is so good looking its almost indecent. - AutoWeek on the new 1986 GT"

Chilliwack Fieros
MSN Messanger tylercaddick@hotmail.com

Yea. Its a sunbird motor or the EXTREMELY rare Delta 204t dealer option.

I'm dying to get one of those motors. If only I had the money.

Hey Hurricane, if it is the EXTREMELY rare Delta 204t dealer option.....you'd better snag it!!
I haven't heard of too many guys putting sunbird motors in there cars. Worth checking it out if he ain't too far away!

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There are several threads in the archives about the Delta 204T (also known as the Andretti Fiero.)
Check it out. (Search "204T" in GFC archives.)

anyway to know for sure what it is? he said he sent the car to the crusher, but kept the engine and few odds and ends. casting numbers to look for? i thought he said it was a v6, but he said it was orange w/ turbo on it, i immediately thought turbo sunbird. would it still say fiero on the plenum and turbo?

Could have been one of the V6 Miller-Woods kits that Pontiac helped with. Some were installed through the dealer in the early years.

Hard to say without pics.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 02-08-2007).]

the adnrettie fiero wasnt factory installed, it was a company named redline i think, that made it,

i know where the andrettie fiero is, the owner lives down my street. he isnt a friendly guy, he doesnt go on penocks or anywhere else, he has 3 other fieros. he wont sell me or anyone the andretti fiero, but he does let it sit in the sun and bake away, in his driveway, while he covers his daily driver fieros with car covers.

the andretti fiero has t tops. is red, his is number 00001 out of two made his dashplaqu also says this. his has 900 somthing miles on it. but is rotting away unfourtinly, also the decklid has a vent in it. and there is a stock boost gauge in the tach area. i took pics of it and posted it a few years ago here. but no one showed much interest in it. from what I could find the second one was last seen in belvue washington. around 1995

quote Originally posted by 84fierotrevor: i took pics of it and posted it a few years ago here. but no one showed much interest in it. from what I could find the second one was last seen in belvue washington. around 1995

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...040223-1-035429.html

I just took a peek at that other thread and it looks like just a plain ol' Opel engine. Is it? Cuz, if it is, it'd be cool to have the twin cam head shipped over to go with the turbo setup.

I run across a factory turboed v6 Fiero about 8 years ago at an Ohio car show. I dont remember much about it other than it was black w/ tan interior. He had all the documentation saying it was a factory experiment.

would this engine be worth anything? i have no use for it, when i do a swap, i plan to use an l67

Back in 1989 or 1990 a young fellow from around Ottawa Ontario sold turbo kits $3500 he took me out in his demo car and had the plenum reworked to have the word turbo on it. The plates on his car were vanity ones with the name "Thumper". I've been told he moved to the US and may have died a few years back. I'm not sure of any of the above save that I saw the engine, turbo and he scared the bejesus out of me on a demo drive. He ran a small Fiero aftermarket supply shop way back then.

I was going to do the turbo in 1989 - or 90 on my new 88GT, but decided against it after the demo ride. In it's day it was an absolute demon of a car.

Dave

quote Originally posted by Hurricane: would this engine be worth anything? i have no use for it, when i do a swap, i plan to use an l67

very very very highly likley that it is not an andrettie fiero, only two where made, one i can confirm is still in the car down the street from my house. and the other was last seen 12 years ago in bevlue washington.

I'm kinda intrested in the sunbird turbo swap...anyone done it?

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1986 Fiero GT - ZZ4 swap and upgraded sus and more in progress
visit my cardomain: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/426133
1986 2m6 (DD#2) Keep mostly stock, bought from TheFieroFactory
2006 (DD) Jeep Wrangler X

IraSummers
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I have read of the sunbird turbo engine being done at some dealerships. Have never seen one. As better engines came along and people were willing to spend the money for V8 kits they were forgotten. I would think the car that it came out of was a '88 or maybe a '87. If you could get the vin from the salvage yard, they should have it on record since they still have the engine. I bet it would show it having been a duke from the factory. Please check it out and let us know.

quote Originally posted by AquaHusky: I just took a peek at that other thread and it looks like just a plain ol' Opel engine. Is it? Cuz, if it is, it'd be cool to have the twin cam head shipped over to go with the turbo setup.

I was thinking of casting a DIY head on another forum. Heads are pretty dumb animals, aye?

Ive got about 120 aluminum cans in my closet and anywhere from 500 to 5000 in a barn by my house. (grandpa liked to drink ). Thats some serious aluminum. Using the lost foam method, it wul be fairly simply to make the head mockup and cast. Did you know that the Quad4 was cast using the lost foam method? Thats why the casting texture looks like it.

[This message has been edited by AP2k (edited 02-09-2007).]

What wrecking yard?

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: What wrecking yard?

J & K Auto Parts
8991 Commercial Blvd
Pevely, MO 63070

(636) 464-5700

j/k auto parts? You must be kidding

quote Originally posted by bamman: I have read of the sunbird turbo engine being done at some dealerships. Have never seen one. As better engines came along and people were willing to spend the money for V8 kits they were forgotten. I would think the car that it came out of was a '88 or maybe a '87. If you could get the vin from the salvage yard, they should have it on record since they still have the engine. I bet it would show it having been a duke from the factory. Please check it out and let us know.

It is true a handfull of Dealers aols the Sunbird Turbo and they are rare as they were just very expensive and you could buy a T/A for the same price. I have seen one and it was nice. None had anything to do with the factory in building it.

There were turbo kits for the 2.5 but very rare. Paff has one and I believe there were several others but they were not popular.

Miller Wood is the most popular Turbo kit for the V6 and the one most have seen. The engines took a beating from the heat and many have died a painful death. If serviced correctly and maintained they were reliable but not all owners were this way.

As for factory turbo the 2.9 turbo that was in two cars one of which rebodied is still with GM was the only factory turbo I can recall.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 02-10-2007).]

In answer to the original question....NO there was no stock turbo from PMD for the Fiero. Anything out there is after the fact.

YES, there was a turboed Fiero available from Pontiac dealers in 1988. It was an authorized PMD modification. The Fiero was modified by Allied Automotive in Portland Oregon. As referenced earlier it was a Delta 204T, and it had a stock turboed 2.0L Sunbird 4 cylinder engine. It had the Getrag 5 speed transmission and had a best 0-60 of 6.4 sec.; and 1/4 mile of 15.1 sec. It cost $ 24,000 in 1988 for the loaded GT. In 1988 that was a pile of money. All the lettering on the turbo and the valve cover faced forward so it could not be read from the rear of the car. So, for $24,000 you got an engine which looked like it was put in backwards ( it was). The entire engine was red as was the turbo unit. I have a photo of the car and engine, but can not get PIP to work. If you want a photo, just PM me with your email address and I'll send it to you. Ed

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[This message has been edited by Firefighter (edited 02-09-2007).]

Please note factory approved and factory built are two different things.

Factory approved means it could be built by an outside supplyer and GM would still cover the warranty and it could be sold as a new car. Much the same way the Calaway Corevettes were offered and the Mera.

Factory built means it came off the line just as GM built it and it could be factory ordered direct from Pontaic.

were there any Mera's built with the Delta204t? that would be rare

I worked for PMD then in the Portland Zone and Central Office authorized no Turbo to be utilized or combined with any engine especially on a warranty basis. What dealers did on their own we had no control over but I will say that if any powertrain problems arose from use of such a product it would have voided the GM warranty....period.

Yes there were some outside suppliers on other vehicles that were authorized to do modifications. The Firebird Firehawk was one, the CJB t-tops on the Fiero another and these were done on a pass through basis after the vehicle was built. Any factory turbos back then had internals that were re-inforced more durable parts over a non-turbo motor and compression ratios to match the useage. Simply slapping a turbo on a car then was not our approach.

Warranty costs and customer satisfation even in the 80's was an important element of marketing any GM car. Remember the Olds 350 diesel engine? We did not need a reputation for quality and performance that Olds has forged. Look where they are today.

[This message has been edited by Mike Murphy (edited 02-10-2007).]

Bump, PM sent to firefighter.

quote Originally posted by Mike Murphy: I worked for PMD then in the Portland Zone and Central Office authorized no Turbo to be utilized or combined with any engine especially on a warranty basis. What dealers did on their own we had no control over but I will say that if any powertrain problems arose from use of such a product it would have voided the GM warranty....period. Yes there were some outside suppliers on other vehicles that were authorized to do modifications. The Firebird Firehawk was one, the CJB t-tops on the Fiero another and these were done on a pass through basis after the vehicle was built. Any factory turbos back then had internals that were re-inforced more durable parts over a non-turbo motor and compression ratios to match the useage. Simply slapping a turbo on a car then was not our approach. Warranty costs and customer satisfation even in the 80's was an important element of marketing any GM car. Remember the Olds 350 diesel engine? We did not need a reputation for quality and performance that Olds has forged. Look where they are today.

Thanks as this looks to be the final word on this

OK- Just to be perfectly clear HERE. I said that there was a turbo version of the 1988 Fiero available from/ through/ via / at/ sold by/etc. PONTIAC dealers. And there was!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was the 1988 204T 4 cylinder 2.0 L Turbo. The engine was a PONTIAC engine used in the Sunbird. But, authorized by Pontiac, it was put in a limited number of Fieros.
I have already e mailed the proof to several members. The article is from the June 1988 magazine-
High Performance Pontiac. AMEN. It existed. It was! It is no longer. Ed

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[This message has been edited by Firefighter (edited 02-12-2007).]

I still have all of my memos & Car Distribution bulletins from 83-88 and find nothing there that Pontiac Motor Division authorized a turbo. It may have been available through a dealer utilizing an outside vendor but Pontiac Motor Division did not authorize an engine conversion. You could buy a super duty 2.5 over the counter from GM. In fact you could have bought any motor at the time over the counter but we had no pass through that was authorized and warrantied.

I was a District Sales Manager for PMD in the St Louis & Portland Zones and would have known about a Division authorized program if anyone would have. I marketed and distributed the entire Pontiac model line to all of the dealers in those zones and was in touch with Central Office Car Distribution weekly they always kept us up to speed on release dates of new items and special merchandising. They did a pretty good job of keeping us abreast of special items available for the Fiero and other models.

Maybe the outfit that did the swap was authorized by a dealer or dealers but that did not mean PMD stood behind it.

I'm really interested in seeing the engine that was the topic of discussion. Can someone go and get pics and confirm what it is? Maybe even get the vin from the Junkyard for the crushed car so a little research can be done. This may shed some light on the whole debate. -Jason

I talked to the guy, and if all goes to plan I'm going to check it out this saturday. I'll get some pics for you.

quote Originally posted by I wear pants: I talked to the guy, and if all goes to plan I'm going to check it out this saturday. I'll get some pics for you.

Thanks, I look forward to them. My curiosity is peaked because of this. -Jason

OK, this could go on forever! The proof of what I said is clearly documented in the June 1988 High Performance Pontiac Magazine. The car was AVAILABLE ONLY through Pontiac dealers and backed by Pontiac. I never said it came from other than the company I specified in the first post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I SAID AVAILABLE ONLY FROM PONTIAC DEALERS!!!!!
So anyone who wants proof just e mail me and I'll send the entire article to you. OH, it was a Pontiac motor also, not some bogus brand. Amen.

[This message has been edited by Firefighter (edited 02-13-2007).]

I am with Firefighter on this one. He was kind enough to send copies of this article last summer when I was looking to convert my 84 with the sunbird motor. I have the article sitting in front of me that he mailed to me. It says it was done by Bob Carter at Allied performance in conjunction with Pontiac and was able to keep the factory warrenty because it was a dealer optioned car for 1988. Anybody want anymore details I have the article with me right now.

Also from what read from the article the job was not actually done at the dealers but at Allied Automotive and then shipped to the dealer of your chose. Shorta like a middle man. So it wentt like this you ordered the car from the dealer with desired options and such then you had the option of the Delta package. If you picked that one it the car would leave the factory, arrive at Allied, motor would be swapped, and then the car would arrive to the dealer you ordered it from.

Did this conversion have it's own RPO code? Those 3 letters are all it takes to set the factory T-tops apart from the non-factory, and they were installed in much the same way as this turbo option.

what vin number is the motor ?? is it vin k ??

So I talked to the guy at J&K last week, and just asked some general questions about the engine to see if he was interested. He said it was a turbo 2.8 complete with everything. I gave him a call yesterday to ask some more specific questions about it before I went there because it was a far drive. He said he hadn't even looked at the engine for a long time so he went and checked it out then called me back. When he called back he said it didn't have a turbo after all, and it was just a bone stock 2.8. I was kinda bummed but, thanks for posting this up anyway Hurricane.

I have no doubt of the authenticity of the magazine article existing or the car. My experience with articles written by journalists are that they sometimes do not get all their facts straight. If the engineering department along with marketing , field service and sales had officially approved the usage af this engine I would have known about it from them and would have a document to show such not to mention a memory...... even at 53 I still have one. I have lots of old HPP and Motor Trend copy from the early 80's through today and although many articles on future pending models and options were discussed much of the time they were not entirely acurate.

The magazine article can say it was backed by Pontiac all they want to but I can tell you that if an unapproved warrantable item was in question for coverage and was investigated by the Zone Service Manager there would have been a call made to Central Office. The outcome? My past experience on such items would depend on the cause of the problem but if anything would have been related to the swap it would have been turned down cold especially if it was not authorized.

I worked for Pontiac Motor Division for 6 years before and during the Fiero run in St. Louis & Portland as a District Sales Manager to 73 dealers so why should anyone want to listen to me. You guys believe what you want to as I'm fine with that. If someone can send me a copy of a Pontiac Central Office Special Merchandising bulletin, the one I'm missing on this along with my mind, that authorized this swap and stood behind it then I'll say I am in error.

You guys can sit here and debate the issue but I need to get back to my project car with the DOHC 3.4 as it is getting a body lift over the long cold Winter,

Cheers.