quote Originally posted by jstricker: I'm not marketing anything anymore and I'm not speaking for CFOGi or anyone else. I agree the comments I made would NOT be appropriate as a director or board member. I'm neither at this point and I have the same right as you to express MY feelings on the subject now without pulling punches. I ask you again, which you never answered, we were in existence for FIVE YEARS and you were WAITING FOR US TO PROVE OURSELVES? Waiting for WHAT, specifically? That's a legitimate question. If people like yourself and Todd sit back and do nothing to support a group, but you're waiting for it to "grow", how in the heck do you expect it to grow? Were you at the 20th show? If you were you attended a CFOGi event. If not, then I assume your involvement is on a more local level. Local and National organizations can not, and never will have the same goals and objectives. That's not to say that many of your points weren't valid. The were, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. My "hot button" on this, if you will, is that now we are getting people that by their own claim never came to a CFOGi event, never joined, but want to instruct everyone on what was done wrong. That's not fair to the members that DID pony up and support us and it's not fair to the people that gave significant parts of their lives to try to make it work. John Stricker edited to add one more thing........ I know I was harsh and I do apologize, as I said, this is a hot button of mine when people that won't/don't contribute when it could have made a difference know how it should be done once it's all over. I shouldn't let my hot button be pushed like that, but I'm only human too. That said, the problems we faced are NOT unique to the Fiero world. When I was a kid, we were involved in 4H. Not uncommon for a rural area. Our local club had 50 members. The entire family was active in it. Now the local club has 11 members. Why? Well, there is a LOT more for people to do now. The demands on everyone's time is staggering compared to 20 years ago (and even less). If we all think back I think we can recognize that none of us were pulled in as many directions 10 years ago as we are now, as far as time committments go. I can't speak for anyone else, but when I get involved in something it's either all the way or not at all. I was "all the way" in CFOGi with my time, money, and anything else I could think of to make it work...........and it didn't. That's a hard thing to accept, but accept it I have. I just don't have to like it.

I ok on talking on this if it is constructive. Anything I say about the CFOGi may not be always be postitive but I say it to be constructive and not to hurt anyone. The Negitive is only to answer your questions on why I did not join and in no way do I mean to disparage or hurt anyone. These are only my veiw from thew out side and I may be right and I may be wrong but as a consumer this was my impression of CFOGi as an outsider whose money you wanted.

Here is my impression of CFOGI.

It first comes out as a major deal with many many directors, promises of large events all around the country, a detailed news letter and the impression all the local Fiero clubs would be involved.

Next the hard sell on lifetime memberships before any product is proven. This was being offered by many people I don't know and after the many past clubs have tanked a life time membership is not of any interest. I year deals are good so if it fails you only get me for one year. You can thank Fiero Phil for much of the ill will here. I know it is not fair but it had to be delt with as it is human nature after getting burned in the past. I had no proof CFOGi is a proven product to know if they are going to be different. This was your hard sell you had to over come with not just me but many other long time Fiero owners.

I never saw a lot of growth and asked several times on how large the club was and only got indrect info from former members. I saw things not growing as first promisedor at least my impreession of how they were relayed.

I know starting a club is hard and have been a past president of a local club that was twice the size of CFOGi. I know how hard it is to get people to join and to get people to help. When is saw what you wanted to do form the start it made me pause as it looked like a good goal but nothing that was going to happen over night. If you had promised me a good informitive on time news letter and a good solid web site that may have been enough for the first few years. Insteed I saw a lot of directors and not a lot else that made me willing to pay money.

No I did not attend the national meet as I was not sure what to expect. It had a lot of good and some bickering but your going to have that. If you had onother one in the midwest the second year I would have joinfed and attended. I feel if you attend and make use of a club you should join and at this point I have gotten nothing from CFOGi other than seeing pictures.

One note on the national event I in office as president of our club at the time it happened. We were never asked if we wanted to be assciated with the club but were listed. We then were asked to pay for a event and that was a sore spot for many in our club. Again we had no involvment and were being told what to do? It would have been better to ask us if we wanted to be involved and then see if we would like to make a offer to help in some way. I did not have to make a choice here as the members at our meeting that month were a little put off. I know many people were involved with the meet and I am not sure if the contact person was CFOGi or not but with your claim to putting on the show you got the blaime. Again we did not know who any of you were.

In the end if CFOGi had a lot less people trying to run the club and me know who they are. Who, Where what you do, Pictures, Back ground. All of this would have helped a lot.

A lot less big plans and have a news letter ready before you even ask for money. You need a product before you ask for money.

Even Fiero Phill for all his faults kept it simple and delivered a newsletter that had a lot of info [though late often]. He also kept a simple national meet in the midwest that was always well attended till the end since it was near where most of the cars were. few traveled more than 5 hours. He also put a face [ugly] but a face on the club where you could call speak to him till near the end anyway. In the end it failed because he really let it go and it is a shame he did not just sell out and let someone willing to work take over.

When dealing with a national club it is not just getting together drafting by laws and electing officers. You need to do some resheach and know what people want and expect before you start. Selling a club is like selling any product you need to know what the market wants and needs before you enter. Just because you make it a Fiero club and we own Fiero is not good reason to join it is where and what am I going to get out of this. I know you can say well we are going to do this and going to do that. The fact is what are you going to right now when I pay my money. I know you tried to get capital to start when you needed to get capital before you started. I know it is much more a risk with your own money but if you really believe in the club show us. I don't pay for my groceries before I go to the store.

The reason I posted is the fact I feel a person running a club as a buisness has a better chance to make this work. They will have to work their butt off but they would and could have things in place before they take their first membership. They can be their to put a face on the club and be the one held responsible. If they fail to live up they will fail. This is a good insentive to do a good job if it is your job. They do not have to beg for people to write stories they can do it and they weill be compinsated for their efforts. As I have said for every 100 in a club you get 4-8 helpers.

Also CFOGi miss a good chance for help form other areas if they could have started a club that included the Solstice and other in production Kappas. By having thes cars you have a bigger playing field and people with new cars and money to spend. You would have had the old Fiero base and the new cars with growing owner ship and potential membership. many with money they would be willing to spend.

In the long run from this side I go the impression that this club was drafted officers voted in and bylaws were written then lets expect everyone to sign on ad pay their money. I did not see a conservitive buisness plan on starting and growing the club in steps. I just saw a lot of plans that looke to rely on money that was not there and were waiting on people to pay the way that never showed. That is just my impression and really don't know the other side as it was never fully laid out anywher that I saw. A mission statement is not the same a well laid out buisness plan.

This is just as I saw it from the outside right or wrong. I was not in the minority on this as many of my Fiero friends felt the same on many of these thing. I just saw this from the point things were getting promoted that would have been hard for my club to do with near 175 members. It just makes one to pause when you don't know who is running the show.

It is hard to start a club and after the many fail clubs this undertaking even harder. I know their past is not yours but it is there and you had to deal with it.

If you want to keep speaking on this I will be glad to but I am not looking for excuses or arguments. I want this to be constrictive and positive to help someone later who may try this again. For a club to make it it need to identify what went wrong here and find a way to not repeat it.

By the way if you did not have strong feeings on this I would be disapointed. So no hard feelings here just please be understnading on some tough things that need to be looked at. It needs to be learned what other thought and thought they saw.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: It could start as a virtual museum, a web site with historical data and information, then hopefully become an actual physical location with cars and memorabilia. If it is a true non-profit, folks could make tax-deductable contributions. Perhaps this is a type of organization that might be able to do something for the Fiero community?

I'm all for the virtual museum, and have been working towards that with my own site. We can discuss offline further.

------------------

I don't disagree with anything you wrote, Chuck. One of the best things I got from CFOGi was meeting and working with you, Dale, Eric, and all the rest (even George), that busted their butts to make things work.

Whenever you get your event to the point you need help, shoot me an email.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Cheever3000: Here’s my thoughts, if we want this thread to become something that may be useful to some eager upstart in the future, who decides there should be some form of national or international Fiero body. Otherwise, it’s over, and there’s no reason to talk about it much. First, the purpose of such an organization. I said from the beginning that it had two purposes: to unite and to represent. As has been said already, the Internet has taken care of the unite part, at least as much as people want to be united. To represent meant to be the main point of contact to the outside non-Fiero world, for all of us. One voice for all Fiero owners has more clout than individuals or local clubs, when you need things like corporate donations for a museum, joint ventures with other car clubs, exposure in magazines, discussions with government entities, etc. I think hobbyists, athletes, and enthusiasts of all kinds should join their national or international organization – “just because”. That’s right – just because they should - for the good of the sport, hobby or whatever. It’s better for all that an organization is there for them. The “what’s in it for me” attitude we saw every day since creating CFOGi always baffled me. Geez, does everything have to give you trinkets before you will be a part of it? I never wanted us to exist only for producing national events. I would have been happy to just support existing events, or someone else’s idea of a national show. But as it turned out, that’s about all anyone ever wanted from us. To me, that was just a way to put a face or an image to the club. But it’s not everything. Second, the basic structure of the organization. When I saw the problems with FOCOA, I knew nobody would go for another club that’s run by one person. It would have to be an elected group, voting amongst themselves to make the decisions. There were MANY things that didn’t go my way, because I wasn’t the only one in charge, but even though I still believe those ideas were good ones, it was better overall that our direction was made by a BOD. Now, with that being said, I agree with hyperv6 that we had too many people running it. In fact, in very the beginning, we had only the officers (Prez, VP, Treasurer, Secretary, Editor and Webmaster) making the big decisions. The regional Directors were to just run their regions. By the way, I didn’t want to have regions. I felt that the local clubs already group themselves naturally, and they didn’t need any help from us to do that. Plus, we didn’t need more than 5 or 6 people to run it. I expected members to volunteer and form committees for things. But I digress. The Directors started complaining that they didn’t know what the officers were discussing, and they wanted to be involved. So we changed to let the entire BOD handle everything. Well, in my opinion, that was a mistake, because it turned out to be almost all talk. Not entirely… I don’t want to upset those who really helped. But quite a few people came on board and then that was the last we heard from them. On the other hand, maybe the Directors didn’t realize what they were getting themselves into. In our heyday, as President I was sending out maybe 50 emails a day, sometimes more. Keeping up with me could not have been easy. Or possible. The worst thing was people saying they would do something and then not doing it. They didn’t think it was such a big deal, I guess because after all it’s just a hobby club and the world won’t end just because you don’t make signs, assign car numbers, get something for the banquet, etc. But if you don’t do your job, somebody else has to. And that somebody else was the same people over & over. All the undone things together had an effect on the event, or the newsletter, or whatever. Both the 20th Anniversary and Wheatstock events could have been 10 times better than they were, if everybody who had a job had actually done their job and if they had communicated like they should have. The moral of the story is two-part: do as much as you can yourself, and have extra help signed up, because some of them will drop the ball. You will get helpers who go AWOL, and some who will sacrifice everything to get it done. There are many more of the former than there are of the latter. Honestly, I don’t think there will be another national-type Fiero club. CFOGi was the last chance, in my opinion, and there wasn’t enough support. People don’t need it or want it. I have one last big event idea that I have always wanted to do, and I am still going to put it on. If nobody comes, that’s fine, I will still have a great time. Except for that, and going to the 25th, my Fiero involvement will just be local & regional. edited for spelling

quote Originally posted by Boomtastic: I'm all for the virtual museum, and have been working towards that with my own site. We can discuss offline further.

I'm with you on this, if you'd like the help.

I have a plan for a museum with a phyisical location, but will take some time.

You see what you want to see.

I understand impressions, even if not reality, are a huge influence. Two points.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: It first comes out as a major deal with many many directors, promises of large events all around the country, a detailed news letter and the impression all the local Fiero clubs would be involved. Next the hard sell on lifetime memberships before any product is proven. This was being offered by many people I don't know and after the many past clubs have tanked a life time membership is not of any interest. I year deals are good so if it fails you only get me for one year. You can thank Fiero Phil for much of the ill will here. I know it is not fair but it had to be delt with as it is human nature after getting burned in the past. I had no proof CFOGi is a proven product to know if they are going to be different. This was your hard sell you had to over come with not just me but many other long time Fiero owners.

There was no "hard sell" on lifetime memberships. In fact, I was against it. It's counter productive, IMHO. Regardless, there was ALWAYS the option to do it year by year and most members did it just that way. The lifetime membership offer was considered a necessary evil to get the club solvent after our funds were taken and we had to pick up a very large tab we were left with after the 20th anniversary show, some of which was not our responsibility, but we paid anyway. If not for some very generous donations by board members and others CFOGi would have been toast before it really got started, and nobody wanted that.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: I never saw a lot of growth and asked several times on how large the club was and only got indrect info from former members. I saw things not growing as first promisedor at least my impreession of how they were relayed. I know starting a club is hard and have been a past president of a local club that was twice the size of CFOGi. I know how hard it is to get people to join and to get people to help. When is saw what you wanted to do form the start it made me pause as it looked like a good goal but nothing that was going to happen over night. If you had promised me a good informitive on time news letter and a good solid web site that may have been enough for the first few years. Insteed I saw a lot of directors and not a lot else that made me willing to pay money. No I did not attend the national meet as I was not sure what to expect. It had a lot of good and some bickering but your going to have that. If you had onother one in the midwest the second year I would have joinfed and attended. I feel if you attend and make use of a club you should join and at this point I have gotten nothing from CFOGi other than seeing pictures. One note on the national event I in office as president of our club at the time it happened. We were never asked if we wanted to be assciated with the club but were listed. We then were asked to pay for a event and that was a sore spot for many in our club. Again we had no involvment and were being told what to do? It would have been better to ask us if we wanted to be involved and then see if we would like to make a offer to help in some way. I did not have to make a choice here as the members at our meeting that month were a little put off. I know many people were involved with the meet and I am not sure if the contact person was CFOGi or not but with your claim to putting on the show you got the blaime. Again we did not know who any of you were.

I have no idea what club you're talking about. I don't know you. I don't know who or how you were asked for money. No local club was ever asked for money for anything relating to our events that I'm aware of, and certainly not that came through the BOD. If you're talking about for the 20th show then CFOGi didn't ask you to pay for any event, at least not that I've ever heard of.

You keep saying you didn't see anything, but you didn't TRY to see anything. You didn't come to the 20th. You didn't come to Wheatstock. You didn't come to Osage Beach. You didn't join, even for a year, to find out if there WERE newsletters. The last couple of years our website has been darn good and the buildup for the roadster has been there, which I informed the members of Pennocks about.

Again, you see what you choose to see.

quote Originally posted by hyperv6: In the end if CFOGi had a lot less people trying to run the club and me know who they are. Who, Where what you do, Pictures, Back ground. All of this would have helped a lot. A lot less big plans and have a news letter ready before you even ask for money. You need a product before you ask for money.

And I submit that after 3 national shows, several regional shows either by CFOGi or assisted by them, nothing would have persuaded you to change your mind and support CFOGi. It's less than a 4 hour drive from Akron to Pontiac and you said you didn't come. That's your choice, and many others made the same choice. As I said, I don't really believe the majority of Fiero owners want, or need, a national organization. How do I know? They told us.............through their lack of support and interest.

And with that, I'm done. Let the post mortem continue.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jstricker: A quick search in active and archived posts for CFOGi and NIFE here on PFF shows 651 posts mentioning CFOGi and 643 posts for NIFE, and the oldest posts for NIFE were back in '99, a couple of years before CFOGi ever existed. To say that it was anonymous is not accurate, I think.

How many different people posted those references John? NIFE is exclusive to Illinois and yet it boasts a membership of over 1200 members. Jim and Paul are cheifly responsible for this succes because they run it like a business, not a hobby.

First let me point out that I am NOT attacking CFOG. I am simply answering the question of why it failed...IMO. Take it for what it is worth. I never said that I didn't want to join a national organization, so I don't know where that comment comes from. I still have my FOCOA membership card, in fact. The point is, why join CFOG? What does CFOG DO FOR ME? They never reached out to me the way FOCOA did. And in all due modesty I am one of the more prominent members of the national Fiero community. If they can't entice me how are they expected to become a truly national force?

I found FOCOA in a copy of Kit Car Magazine. They advertised, they gave out newsletters, membership cards, mugs, calendars, T-shirts, Membership certificates and a host of other things that forced me to pay attention to them. My point being that CFOG never went out of its way to grab my attention by telling me what it could do for me...the first rule of sales. And if you don't think a club has a duty to sell itself the way any other organization does, you're wrong. Businesses sell themselves, Political parties sell themselves, Churches sell themselves, and so too must a club.

quote In the NIFE newsletters, you have a wide variety of people contributing, we could never get that. We had 3 people or so, with a rare exception, that contributed. I'm also aware that many people sent some things in quite some time ago and they never got published and that goes back to our lack of ability to find someone to oversee the job. It was also a major cause of not getting more contributors, even though they were asked to resubmit the articles.

Ask not what your membership can do for you, ask what you can do for your membership.

quote All of the comments about the newsletters being erratic, bad, whatever, believe me, we know. But that alone was not the problem and a good newsletter/magazine will not make or break an organization. One of the things that makes NIFE, MFF, and Midwest Fieros (just to name three, not dissing anyone else) successful is LOCAL GET TOGETHERS. That forms a very cohesive bond and a lot of camaraderie that I don't think you're ever going to get through a national organization any longer, not with the information and friendships developed through things like the internet, which weren't available to many back in the FOCOA days. It is harder for people to drive their cars long distances now. I wouldn't be afraid to get in the Finale and drive it anywhere in the country, but I'm not going to do it this time of year with road conditions what they are, and in the summer I'm like everyone else, I work for a living so it's hard to get away unless you can plan a year in advance.

A national club has to offer something over and above in the same way the federal government has to offer something over and above what the local governments can. I don't think CFOG ever made it's mission clear or sold that mission in a way that would allow people to see it's value.

quote If I knew what the answer was, there would still be a CFOGi, but I don't. At this point, it would probably be easier and more effective for just one person to take $10,000, start their own national club, be answering to nobody, put on the shows and events they want, and run it like a benevolent dictatorship.

Remember George Miller? We here at Golden Gate Fieros all remember too well what a dictatorship can be like. They usually aren't very benevolent but serve to bolster the ego of the dictator. Our club disintegrated while George was here until we took a new approach. Our membership is at all all time high now. The secret is the ability to demonstrate value.

I loved the 20th! It was FIRST RATE! Well organized, wide in scope, everything you want to see from a national club. BUT, what has CFOG done for the fiero community in the last 3 years that they can't get at their local meetings? Value, Differentiation, and Consistency are the keys to success; in any venture. I personally never saw any of these three varibales from CFOG since the 20th. The question then has to be why? Why didn't we reach Todd (or the rest of the Fiero world) on these items? What could we have done differently? Answer those questions and you'll have your solutions.

I think the Fiero community is ACHING for a good national organization. I know I am. But it must have a clear mission (value), detailed goals, and aggressive execution to win. One day, whenI am fat rich and retired I might take on the challenge. But as long as I have babies to feed, I'm a working stiff who can only hope others can rise to the occassion.

If there ever is another national Fiero club, I'm going to join... period. They won't have to prove to me that they have a gol' darn thing to offer me. It's the national club by gawd, and I'll support it because darn-it that's the right thing to do. And then I might even get involved and participate a little and help 'em out.

Don't give me that crap about what have they done and what do they offer. You just don't get it.

And "business plan"??? I don't know what a business plan is. I'm an ordinary Fiero owner, and the former national club was ripping off my friends so we got together and replaced their asses.

When I moved here, I didn't want to see the Lone Star Fieros business plan before I would join. I live here, so I became a member to support it.

I didn't ask to see the AAFO business plan before I joined.

I never asked what NTFC had to offer me. The fellowship of great people is all I need, and they provide tons of that.

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 01-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Remember George Miller? We here at Golden Gate Fieros all remember too well what a dictatorship can be like. They usually aren't very benevolent but serve to bolster the ego of the dictator. Our club disintegrated while George was here until we took a new approach. Our membership is at all all time high now. The secret is the ability to demonstrate value. I loved the 20th! It was FIRST RATE! Well organized, wide in scope, everything you want to see from a national club. BUT, what has CFOG done for the fiero community in the last 3 years that they can't get at their local meetings? Value, Differentiation, and Consistency are the keys to success; in any venture. I personally never saw any of these three varibales from CFOG since the 20th. The question then has to be why? Why didn't we reach Todd (or the rest of the Fiero world) on these items? What could we have done differently? Answer those questions and you'll have your solutions. I think the Fiero community is ACHING for a good national organization. I know I am. But it must have a clear mission (value), detailed goals, and aggressive execution to win. One day, whenI am fat rich and retired I might take on the challenge. But as long as I have babies to feed, I'm a working stiff who can only hope others can rise to the occassion.

Then I suggest you give it your best shot, Todd. I'll join. I'll help, if I can. Best of luck to you.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Ask not what your membership can do for you, ask what you can do for your membership.

JFK actually said "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"

In this case, CFOGi was the organization, the country if you will, and you turned his quote around bass ackwards. THAT attitude is why the Fiero community neither needs, or wants, a national organization. Chuck has it exactly right. I'll join a national organization, if one exists again, just because I should. Midwest Fieros is the one closest to and active to me, that I try to participate in events with, and I get a membership card from them. That's more than I need to join.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jstricker: You see what you want to see. I understand impressions, even if not reality, are a huge influence. Two points. And I submit that after 3 national shows, several regional shows either by CFOGi or assisted by them, nothing would have persuaded you to change your mind and support CFOGi. It's less than a 4 hour drive from Akron to Pontiac and you said you didn't come. That's your choice, and many others made the same choice. As I said, I don't really believe the majority of Fiero owners want, or need, a national organization. How do I know? They told us.............through their lack of support and interest. And with that, I'm done. Let the post mortem continue. John Stricker

I had planned to go to Pontiac but my fear of the event living up were ther and I did not go I do regreet it but hind site is 20/20, The Michigan club was also involved so they should share in the credit too. I was glas it worked out.

As for for the other shows there is not any show I would drive to that far to go too. That is just my choice. I have a limit of around 5 hours I will go but that is it. that has noting to do with your club or anything else. That is just my choice. If you had come back to Pontiac I would have joined and been there.

The club I belong to was told they wanted us to pay for a breakfast on Friday morning. This may have been a Michigan member but if you putting you name on the event you should have know who was paying for what? or did you? I leave the my club name out as I do not want to drag them into this.

I see the whole thing as a good hearted goupe of Fiero enthusiaist that wanted to start a club. I t appears there was not a lot of reshearch, or a full buisness plan put together. It also looks like the money was all expected to come form members to start the club not just run it. Finally the club depended on volenteers to do many things for the club when local clubs bearly get enough members to help with what they do.

See the failure here is not becuase I and many other did not join. The failure id because you did not sell it to the point we were willing to buy. As for national clubs there is a place for them. It has to be run as a buisness.

Clubs like the Michigan club and NIFE are very large clubs and I feel they both could go national very easily if they wanted to. They have grown their clubs slowly and made them strong. They offer well written and printed Magazines. Over all they do a very good job. They even have enough members to be national clubs now with members all around the country.

Just because your a national club you don't have to have directors in ever state and town. You don't have to events in every city. If you just get a good magazine out qurterly and on time with good info I think any would just be willing to pay for that. Many in my club belong to the NIFE and Michigan clubs just for the magazine. It really is not a hard sell. If you had offered a free newsletters to show what you had and offered it would have really help sell the club. I would have joined just for a good news letter but I never saw one and post here stated that many did not get theirs they paid for. I assume they were taken care of, Hell I joind Jersey Penn just for their newsletter.

I see it as I am not the one to blaime and if I am you have to blaime the thousands of other Fiero owners that did not join. Lets face it If NIFE has over 1000 members they must be doing something you did not do.

We could debate this all day and I guess we have. We will just agree to disagree.

Wow, I never expected this to turn in to a finger pointing thread.
It was, for me, planned to be more of an eulogy.

Someone asked if local interest is down?
For KCFOG, it is.
I’m to blame as much as any other member.
At the December meeting, we discussed meeting attendance and what we could do to improve it.
And guess what, I missed the January meeting.

And not everyone is on PFF.
KCFOG has (I’m guessing) 50 registered members.
I can only think of 5 that are on here, even though I have promoted using PFF as a tool many times.

A quick check in the member list searching the word “Kansas” shows about 35 users in the KC area. But I only recognized 6 of them. And I haven’t seen them in person for months.

To be honest, I have my own fears for my local club.
Remember when you point a finger at someone, you have 3 fingers pointing back at you.

I'm not here to point fingers or anything of the sort. Hyper and others have it down to a newsletter. I have to agree that that is what will initially prove and sell a group. That is why NIFE is doing so well, as most of their members if I'm not wrong treat it more as a subscription than joining a club (otherwise their turnout at tech sessions and others would be a sight to see). NIFE has something we could not get nor find, people dedicated solely to making a newsletter what it needs to be. The newsletters we sent out IMO were good, they just weren't on a reliable schedule. Another issue was none (that I know of) of our members had the equipment or contacts needed to be able to make an affordable newsletter for a car club on a budget and I'm pretty sure not many would want something printed on our home computer and stapled together.

As for the club being top heavy, yes it was......on paper. If you looked at the participation on the BOD it came down to 6 to 8 people dedicated to trying to make it work and unfortunately none of us had the skills or contacts to make a quality newsletter on a schedule. As for running it as a business, I have to disagree, a business owner is out to make money so I could see everything being more expensive than needed along with all events being his/her vision and not necessarily what the Fiero community would like and without a board the community has absolutely no say. I know when we planned Osage, I think our profit on the shirts was around $.28 each and I know we tried our best to make the show cost minimal but still provide a fun time.

I joined the club and asked what I could do to help, it is an experience I wouldn't trade for anything the friends I've made the places I've gone and the knowledge has been invaluable. I'm just hoping I can see my friends and stay in contact as often as we have been. But for now I'm going to dedicate my resources and talent (hehe...that makes me laugh when I say that) to my local club (Heartland) and just be an attendee at the others. If another attempt at a National Club starts up, you bet I'll join, it serves a purpose and without support...well we know what happens.

These are some good ideas that everyone is posting and I hope someone can comer here and do the research it needs and get some ideas on a better way to do it.

Dan

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Maybe a Historical Society and/or Museum group? At Fierorama in 2005, I asked Todd Amelio, Paul Vargyas, Fred Bartemeyer (sp?), and one or two other gentlemen to meet for a few minutes to discuss creating a Fiero Museum (Eric Schneck would have been included, but wasn't there. We emailed him afterward). So far, there hasn't been any action on this (as far as I know), but it is something that *I'd* like to see happen. It could start as a virtual museum, a web site with historical data and information, then hopefully become an actual physical location with cars and memorabilia. If it is a true non-profit, folks could make tax-deductable contributions. Perhaps this is a type of organization that might be able to do something for the Fiero community?

quote Originally posted by Boomtastic: I'm all for the virtual museum, and have been working towards that with my own site. We can discuss offline further.

It is moving forward but there is a LOT of information to gather.
There is already a website. The midwest Fiero clubs are in the process of gathering information and setting up a layout.

The clubs meet next month.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Toddster: How many different people posted those references John? NIFE is exclusive to Illinois and yet it boasts a membership of over 1200 members. Jim and Paul are cheifly responsible for this succes because they run it like a business, not a hobby.

As a long standing member and recently made an Activity Director for NIFE we have never "boasted" 1200 members. This past year we hit 400. Usually it is somewhere in the mid 300's. On average we lose about 20% each year so our goal is to get others involved to offset that. So far it has been working. NIFE is not so much as run like a business but more like a group of people willing to work together to have a smoothly run club and allowing it's members to actively participate. Consistancy, Organization, and Communication are the keys. As an example, FOCOA was great at first but then it appeared to grow too large for them to handle. Later the newsletters started "getting lost", People would order club items and never see the items, and finally when folks called to complain, they were met with rudeness. Once a club starts getting members upset, word spreads quickly, and members leave without anyone new joining.


As for local clubs, One advantage they have is the location of members. Having a club meeting brings people together and creates an environment of sharing. Hence getting members to write articles is a little easier. NIFE does have members who are not local (some even over the big pond.) But as noted this could be because of the newsletter. It does seem that the quality of the newsletter is a huge part of it. Especially since this is the clubs main form of communicating to it's members. But getting feedback is also required to make the newsletter successful. Another advantage is being able to do activities other than just car shows.
Examples are club tech meetings, driving tours, cruise nights, etc. Even the occasional B-B-Que/pizza party or some other informal gathering. For a club to run right you need to portray it as a "club" where everyone has the feeling of belonging. Once they feel they actually belong, then they tend to want to play a more active role.

quote Originally posted by DanFiero: That is why NIFE is doing so well, as most of their members if I'm not wrong treat it more as a subscription than joining a club (otherwise their turnout at tech sessions and others would be a sight to see). NIFE has something we could not get nor find, people dedicated solely to making a newsletter what it needs to be. The newsletters we sent out IMO were good, they just weren't on a reliable schedule. Another issue was none (that I know of) of our members had the equipment or contacts needed to be able to make an affordable newsletter for a car club on a budget and I'm pretty sure not many would want something printed on our home computer and stapled together. Dan

We do have decent turn outs at events. As an example for 2006 43% of the members participated at an event. Granted not all events will appeal to everyone and we do have quite a few who members who are not local. As with tech sessions, Those that have an intrest in what is being presented are there. Some tech sessions are large some are small. Fierorama draws in a very large amount of cars. (even in the rain. ) The Dells is one of the largest midwest events as well. Of course the advantage is the Midwest Fiero Clubs work together to adjust show schedules to avoid same day clashes and adverstise each others schedules so the local shows are more successful. With that, Many don't mind driving a little farther to an event or joining another states local club.
Like I said above the newsletter is the clubs form of communicating with it's members. If the newsletter was printed on a home printer and not always on time, What kind of impression does that give the member?
As for CFOG, I was originally a member. I received 2 newsletters and never received anything else. Not even a membership renewal notice.
As for how it was ran or what issues they had, I cannot comment on as I really don't know. In all honesty I never really felt like a "member".
It is sad to hear it is shut down.

A note about the newsletter issue. In the early days of CFOGi ... we started out with a seemingly dependable and CHEAP printer and had a good editor. And we put out several very nice newsletters. But as we all know "Life happens" and the folks doing the newsletter ran into marrital problems and just quit on us .... then we had to scramble to find another printer on the cheap ... and then Terry Owens (I'm really not afraid to name names here ... what a weasel) robbed the club for every single dime we had !!! We, the BOD of CFOGi replaced the $$$ out of pocket..... So you see we had an enormous uphill struggle with the newsletter from day one. All of this in the face of trying to get the 20th show planned and executed.

I, as former Regional Director and Former VP of CFOGi wish to personally appologise for the newsletter. We really did try but didn't have the financial backing of members wishing to help out just thru paying dues and we didn't seem to generate the hands on help we needed from our members either. Bottom line ... we didn't get it done. The scope of this undertaking was overwelming for us ....well at least it was for me.

On a more positive note .... if I had it to do all over again I would probrably jump right in. I had fun ... met a bunch of GREAT people and got to see some fantastic Fieros !!!!

------------------

Proud Member, Classic Fiero Owners Group - International
www.cfogi.org

I remember when the group tried to ignore what Cleveland Fieros had already done with Norwalk and Ames Performance. Cleveland Fieros had built a great relationship and still to this day over this event. We volunteer for events at Norwalk every year and were notified that COFGI was trying to set something up for Fieros. They were told we already did that and even on Pennocks tried to set up something and were reminded that Cleveland Fieros had this taken care of. That kind of work from them was fairly bothersome to us as our group was being stepped over. No one had contacted the President of the club as happened a few other times with groups I seen.
Don't take this wrong I am just explaining what had happened from ours and Norwalk's point of view. It would have been nice if they contacted the club even after they were told Cleveland Fieros was in charge and had a show in place for years. If things were handled this way in other arenas of shows then possible it was a flaw needing attention to get a bit more respect for folks. SC

quote Originally posted by Oreif: There is already a website. The midwest Fiero clubs are in the process of gathering information and setting up a layout.

First I've heard about it, but good - I'm glad that the ball is rolling on this project. Call if you need anything from me.

quote Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: I remember when the group tried to ignore what Cleveland Fieros had already done with Norwalk and Ames Performance. Cleveland Fieros had built a great relationship and still to this day over this event. We volunteer for events at Norwalk every year and were notified that COFGI was trying to set something up for Fieros. They were told we already did that and even on Pennocks tried to set up something and were reminded that Cleveland Fieros had this taken care of. That kind of work from them was fairly bothersome to us as our group was being stepped over. No one had contacted the President of the club as happened a few other times with groups I seen. Don't take this wrong I am just explaining what had happened from ours and Norwalk's point of view. It would have been nice if they contacted the club even after they were told Cleveland Fieros was in charge and had a show in place for years. If things were handled this way in other arenas of shows then possible it was a flaw needing attention to get a bit more respect for folks. SC

I was the one in contact with the Ames group, I had a lengthy conversation with the person running that show (sorry I can't recall his name) he informed us that Cleveland Fieros was there and that he was going to talk to Rick that week. He said he would talk with Rick about us maybe joining in (this is all while we were attempting to setup a show in Minneapolis but they took over 3 months IIRC to get back to our request). At one point we had decided to try and set something up with you guys but in less than a week there was a change of plans and our participation at Norwalk wasn't going to happen, I contacted the Ames people and told them we weren't going to be able to come so at the point which was early in the planning stages no one had contacted Cleveland of which I apologize for that. I'm guessing we didn't feel a need to since the plans fell through within such a short time period. Believe me, Cleveland would have been contacted, I would have made sure of that. I hope there are no hard feelings as the Norwalk show sounds like and awesome deal and show to attend and I hope to maybe one day make it there.

Dan

quote [b]Originally posted by DanFiero:[/b I was the one in contact with the Ames group, I had a lengthy conversation with the person running that show (sorry I can't recall his name) he informed us that Cleveland Fieros was there and that he was going to talk to Rick that week. He said he would talk with Rick about us maybe joining in (this is all while we were attempting to setup a show in Minneapolis but they took over 3 months IIRC to get back to our request). At one point we had decided to try and set something up with you guys but in less than a week there was a change of plans and our participation at Norwalk wasn't going to happen, I contacted the Ames people and told them we weren't going to be able to come so at the point which was early in the planning stages no one had contacted Cleveland of which I apologize for that. I'm guessing we didn't feel a need to since the plans fell through within such a short time period. Believe me, Cleveland would have been contacted, I would have made sure of that. I hope there are no hard feelings as the Norwalk show sounds like and awesome deal and show to attend and I hope to maybe one day make it there. Dan

I wish more would come as it is a great event and would give Fiero's much better place in the Pontiac Community. The other Pontiac owners welcome us here and treat us as a Pontiac.

I hope you get the time to come it is a fun event and never boring.

Check out the show in the April HPP. It has Ricks DGP in it and the awards were presented to 11 Fiero's in 5 classes I I reacll correctly. # of the 3 classes were open to ther Pontiac models and the Fiero's prevailed over them.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 01-14-2007).]

I've been to the Norwalk show many times. Cleveland Fieros does a fabulous job at that show and it's one that all Fieros owners should try to attend !!!! I missed last years show due to work obligations

quote Originally posted by Oreif: As a long standing member and recently made an Activity Director for NIFE we have never "boasted" 1200 members.

According to your last newsletter you are up to 1208. But I expect you are speaking of active members only. But activity is dependent on the value. If there is no value no one will go. If there is great value most members will go. But I take your point.

quote We do have decent turn outs at events. As an example for 2006 43% of the members participated at an event. Granted not all events will appeal to everyone and we do have quite a few who members who are not local. As with tech sessions, Those that have an intrest in what is being presented are there. Some tech sessions are large some are small. Fierorama draws in a very large amount of cars. (even in the rain. ) The Dells is one of the largest midwest events as well. Of course the advantage is the Midwest Fiero Clubs work together to adjust show schedules to avoid same day clashes and adverstise each others schedules so the local shows are more successful. With that, Many don't mind driving a little farther to an event or joining another states local club. Like I said above the newsletter is the clubs form of communicating with it's members. If the newsletter was printed on a home printer and not always on time, What kind of impression does that give the member? As for CFOG, I was originally a member. I received 2 newsletters and never received anything else. Not even a membership renewal notice. As for how it was ran or what issues they had, I cannot comment on as I really don't know. In all honesty I never really felt like a "member". It is sad to hear it is shut down.

Dead on. Consistency and quality are musts if you are to succeed.

And John, I'll seriously consider it some day. I am not in a position right now to make such a venture possible. Hell, I barely have enough time to manage my rather light duties as GGF Vice President. But having a well run National Organization is a genuine goal and I hope to be part of it some day.

Sorry to see this happen but I can say that it was just a matter of time. All I got out of my membership was a debit from my checking account. Never did I get a single newsletter or any correspondence since I joined the club years ago. I even brought this up to my regional director, Boomtastic then, and STILL never got anything for my money - except for the decal. Promises were made, monies were taken and nothing was ever delivered - at least in my case. I know it takes a lot of time and dedication to run a club. We experienced this first hand when Elvira was the president of NEFA. Unfortunately broken promises don't help a club prosper. Please don't take this the wrong way - just some input to the matter.

Rob D.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: According to your last newsletter you are up to 1208. But I expect you are speaking of active members only.

That number you see is how many individual people who signed up with NIFE since 1991.
So in 18 years we have had 1208 different people sign up with NIFE. Not all 1208 people are still members.
Each year only about 350 members renew and stay in the club and we generally pick up some new members each year.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: That number you see is how many individual people who signed up with NIFE since 1991. So in 18 years we have had 1208 different people sign up with NIFE. Not all 1208 people are still members. Each year only about 350 members renew and stay in the club and we generally pick up some new members each year.

That is a very very good number for a local club!! I know you guys do a very good job and may notice.

A national club should only expect 300-800 members at best. If I recall I don't think Fiero Phil never broke the 1000 mark the whole time he was at it.

I had heard in the final few years he was down to 150-250 members.

Most clubs outside Vettes and Model A's or T's have more than 500 members.