This is an email from 'Classic Fiero Owners Group, International'

Message:
CFOGi Members,

In 2001, a national club was born with the desire of
uniting all local clubs together. Regional directors would work to
ensure that local clubs were represented, assisted, and that each had a
"voice" within CFOGi. The thought was that with the national club's
help, local clubs could thrive. We would also assist with local clubs
when needed, as we did with the 20th Anniversary Show in Michigan. Since
it's inception 6 years ago, the CFOGi BOD has faced many struggles - and
has usually been able to rebound from them all. For instance, when our
first treasurer stole every penny the club had, the Board of Directors
got together and donated their own money to produce the initial
newsletter. When finances fell short and events such as Heartland Park
were on the brink of being cancelled, people worked their tails off to
find donations to keep things going. Unfortunately this latest struggle
is one that we cannot bounce back from. During the past year we have
seen a decline in both club participation, and club spirit. This has not
been isolated to just CFOGi, but has affected local clubs across the
country. The BOD had run out of ideas for promoting and injecting new
life into the club, and we put the word out repeatedly that the club
needed help. But in the end no one stepped up. No one seemed to care. We
couldn't even get members to help write articles for their own
newsletter. So on December 3rd, 2006 the CFOGi BOD met for the last
time. A vote was taken and a motion carried that the club would be
closed. Effective immediately and as per our Club Bylaws, all assets
will be liquidated, outstanding bills paid, and the left over cash
donated to charity.

The BOD is deeply saddened by this decision, as it is one that we did
not wish to make. We wish all club members the best, and hope that you
continue to support your local Fiero club and their events.

Best regards,
The CFOGi Board of Directors

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I haven't been on the Board of Directors for a year now, but this is a good time to say thanks again to the group of people who helped start it (except for that one rat - and btw, he wasn't the treasurer). Although the learning curve was enormous, we had the best of intentions, and gosh-darn-it we gave it a great effort.

I'll leave it at that, but I'll answer any questions I can about anything related to the time I was on the Board.

well i never really went to any of there events.... except the 20th... that show was something else... it took alot of effort by alot of people on there own time.... Thanks to all those who helped the local clubs organize it... it was a great time!

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We had a good dream Chuck.

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Proud Member, Classic Fiero Owners Group - International
www.cfogi.org

I'd like to offer an observation as to why a national club didn't make it. It is in NO way a criticism of the efforts you guys put in. Dale, Chuck, Eric, Dan, et al, you're a fine bunch and we know you poured heart and soul into the effort.

"Back in the day", when FOCOA was the national club (and before they unceremoniously disappeared of the face of the earth), having a club of that sort was really the only way that a group such as Fiero owners could stay in touch, work together and be informed. This was before the internet, at least as it is today - where everyone has an internet account, and it became easy and free to send messages to 1000s of people all at once. The magazine was how Fiero owners got Fiero news, tech tips, found vendors and learned about Fiero events. Despite being habitually late and sometimes not showing up at all, the magazine was basically the only game in town. Now we have the internet - the Fiero list, technet and Pennock's Forum. Most people have an email account, and it's now easy - and basically FREE - to send a message to 1000s of Fiero owners. You don't need to join a club to get a magazine to get Fiero news. Just log on, and read the forum. In 10 minutes, you can have all the information that it used to take months to compile and send to a printer, and for basically no cost.

Back in the day, it was easy to get 300 cars together for a car show. There are two main reasons. One, there weren't as many regional events, so the national show was THE big thing in the Fiero world. Two, the cars weren't 20 years old and people weren't as reluctant to drive them half way (or further) across the country. Organizing this big yearly event was a major purpose for the existance of a national club. Now, with so many regional events, is it any wonder why we don't see 300 cars at a Fiero show? (events like the 20th anniversary notwithstanding).

As I see it, those were the major reasons why a national club once was so valuable, and why there isn't as much enthusiasm for such an organization now. I don't think it is due to the efforts, or lack of, of the organizers. It may be that the *usefulness* of a national club just isn't there any more. The fine folks who tried to make CFOGI a success shouldn't feel bad. The times simply have changed.

I agree with Fierobears comments. The same thing is happening to the local clubs just on a smaller scale. I belonged to CFOG and enjoyed the events I was able to make.

I would like to thank the people who gave it a try.

Lucky Dick
President Midwest Fieros

quote Originally posted by edzards: I agree with Fierobears comments. The same thing is happening to the local clubs just on a smaller scale. I belonged to CFOG and enjoyed the events I was able to make. I would like to thank the people who gave it a try. Lucky Dick President Midwest Fieros

I don't know about the other clubs, but ours - Golden Gate Fieros - is still growing. We have plenty of events, and average right around 30 members attending each monthly meeting. Are other clubs having problems with attendance and enthusiasm?

Sorry to hear that. CFOGI did a lot of work just like a 'club'. Although maybe in some aspects the old 'national club FOCOA' may have been a better idea in that Phil and Gloria just sort of 'directed' the annual shows that were actually hosted, organized, and staffed by local clubs. Basically a 'figurehead' organization with a 'company store and a newsletter'.

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Notchbacks RULE

"Let a man drive a Fiero and he'll own one.
Teach a man to fix a Fiero and he'll own eight....errr...nine."

Well, the Northern Illinois Fiero Enthusiasts have more members now than we've had in the past five years or so....

That is a shame. Honestly I never knew of any troubles the group was experiencing, but I also haven't heard anything about the group in some time, although I wasn't a member.

I haven't been to a Fiero related event (other than the annual swap meets in AL) since the Louisville FOCOA show. That event and the FOCOA fiasco left me with a sour taste. I wrongly assumed cfogi would be the same and didn't attend the 20th even though it was held close to home, thinking the show would be like the last few FOCOA events. I feel I really missed out on a great event and probably a good organization which I will now not get to be a part of. I applaud you for the hard work you devoted, its a shame the organization can't continue, but you should be VERY proud of what you accomplished, especially the 20th show. From what I've heard and seen, it looked like you did a fantastic job!

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 01-12-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I'd like to offer an observation as to why a national club didn't make it. It is in NO way a criticism of the efforts you guys put in. Dale, Chuck, Eric, Dan, et al, you're a fine bunch and we know you poured heart and soul into the effort. "Back in the day", when FOCOA was the national club (and before they unceremoniously disappeared of the face of the earth), having a club of that sort was really the only way that a group such as Fiero owners could stay in touch, work together and be informed. This was before the internet, at least as it is today - where everyone has an internet account, and it became easy and free to send messages to 1000s of people all at once. The magazine was how Fiero owners got Fiero news, tech tips, found vendors and learned about Fiero events. Despite being habitually late and sometimes not showing up at all, the magazine was basically the only game in town. Now we have the internet - the Fiero list, technet and Pennock's Forum. Most people have an email account, and it's now easy - and basically FREE - to send a message to 1000s of Fiero owners. You don't need to join a club to get a magazine to get Fiero news. Just log on, and read the forum. In 10 minutes, you can have all the information that it used to take months to compile and send to a printer, and for basically no cost. Back in the day, it was easy to get 300 cars together for a car show. There are two main reasons. One, there weren't as many regional events, so the national show was THE big thing in the Fiero world. Two, the cars weren't 20 years old and people weren't as reluctant to drive them half way (or further) across the country. Organizing this big yearly event was a major purpose for the existance of a national club. Now, with so many regional events, is it any wonder why we don't see 300 cars at a Fiero show? (events like the 20th anniversary notwithstanding). As I see it, those were the major reasons why a national club once was so valuable, and why there isn't as much enthusiasm for such an organization now. I don't think it is due to the efforts, or lack of, of the organizers. It may be that the *usefulness* of a national club just isn't there any more. The fine folks who tried to make CFOGI a success shouldn't feel bad. The times simply have changed.

Although I havent been a member of any nation Fiero club or local for that matter at this point. I can certainly agree with some of the statements you made hear. But I am a member of a Nation Vette club. Why is it that other national car clubs arent having the same problems ????? Or if they are what are those clubs doing differently to maintain their loyal club memebers. They are met with the same resistances as we are in the Fiero community. Here in Upstate NY I would love to join/ start a local club but I dont think there are a large enough number of owner/enthusiasts.

I don't think you can compare a Corvette National to a Fiero National Club. The number of Corvettes out must be 1000:1 compared to the Fiero. Also, volunteer groups are always run by a small handful of very hard working individuals.

I belong to the Harley Owners Group. It has more than a million members. It's run as a business - and I take the material but rerely make the events.

Sorry to hear of the end of another National - I used to belong to FOCOA in 1987. I applaud the BOD efforts!

Dave

quote Originally posted by rvalmore: I am a member of a Nation Vette club. Why is it that other national car clubs arent having the same problems ????? Or if they are what are those clubs doing differently to maintain their loyal club memebers. They are met with the same resistances as we are in the Fiero community. Here in Upstate NY I would love to join/ start a local club but I dont think there are a large enough number of owner/enthusiasts.

Logistics are different. Some cars, like the Miata, that have a huge owner base (and are still being sold), only need a small percentage of owners to be enthusiasts to form a large club. Many people who buy a Vette (Viper, Cobra, Pantera, Delorean whatever) usually buy it because they are ALREADY an enthusiast and are almost automatically in the "club".

But MOST Fiero owners are not what you'd call enthusiasts. For many, it's a cheap car to buy and get around in, if they get a good one. Sometimes they become enthusiastic as they "get into" the Fiero. Many times, their "interest" is limited to finding the local group for help or information to fix their car - then you never see them again. Most enquiries I get through our club website is for exactly that.

We continually work to "get the word out" on our club by hitting local car shows and "carding" Fieros around town. Some who come check us out, sometimes get intimidated because of the $500 Fiero they bought sitting next to ours that we've spent thousand$ on. We welcome them and offer support etc., but if they don't ever plan to fix up or restore their car, or don't have any money to do so, they disappear (maybe out of embarassment??).

Some people seem anti-social or think the whole idea of a car club is completely lame and there's not much you can do to get them to be participants. The small number that are true enthusiasts are here on PFF and in the local Fiero Clubs already. Some just lose interest with time, but we still try to find more.

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3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003/2004 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 01-12-2007).]

I would like to thank all of the past and present BOD for all of the hard work, time ,and money all of you gave to try and make it happen.

As a (now former) CFOGi Deputy Director, I would like to thank everyone for your comments & "thank you" messages. It has been a long road, and it's been fun, stressful, and everything in between - but many of us have met so many great new people along the way!

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I don't know about the other clubs, but ours - Golden Gate Fieros - is still growing. We have plenty of events, and average right around 30 members attending each monthly meeting. Are other clubs having problems with attendance and enthusiasm?

quote Originally posted by GonsaiPK: Well, the Northern Illinois Fiero Enthusiasts have more members now than we've had in the past five years or so....

Fierobear - I think your observation about clubs vs the internet is "spot-on" ...and exactly what some of us have been discussing leading up to the decision of closing CFOGi.

As to participation numbers - I think nearly every show "report" I've read this year has shown (whether small or large) - a decrease or leveling in attendance numbers when compared to years past (yes - even NIFE's Fierorama is not immune to this).

I think that NIFE in particular has a stronger "number" of members thanks largely to a high quality publication (combined with a low & beneficial registration fee). Unfortunately - they do not have a particularly strong local-level involvement at most events (from what I've been told by current and/or former NIFE directors), and I would be more-impressed to see growth in that area as well!

MFF (Minnesota Fieros Forever) is one of the oldest/original Fiero clubs - and we have a very strong "core" group of people, many of whom don't just get together for Fiero events, but are really friends outside of the club. While membership "numbers" may have leveled or decreased from "the good ol' days" - enthusiasm is up among the core group.

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Looking for Fiero posters?

[This message has been edited by MinnGreenGT (edited 01-12-2007).]

I probably shouldn't jump in here but I'm going to anyway.........

I got on board CFOGi shortly after the 20th and have been on the board ever since. The very first thing I'd like to do is say how much I appreciate and consider myself lucky to have met and become friends with the other people that have been and are on the board, past and present. I can't tell you how much respect I have for Chuck, Dale, George, and all the others that were bast officers and directors and the current ones we have that were active and gave everything we had to keep things going.

I'm going to nip one rumor in the bud that I've heard whispered and that is that CFOGi was broke. It is not. The group's financial problems IN THE PAST have been overcome for quite some time (over 2 years) and it has been on a solid financial footing. Dan has been an extremely concientious treasurer and has done his job admirably. Because of that, we have a not inconsiderable amount of money to donate to our charity, money that we had been holding to put on our next event.

The original board selected The Hole in the Wall Gang, founded by Paul Newman and established to give kids with cancer and other life threatening illnesses a free camping experience, as our "official" charity and all along we have contributed profits and designated donations from people to this group. A finer charity I don't think exists and that is where the remaining club funds will go.

In the 9 months or so leading up to our decision, we sent out numerous pleas for help to our members and the Fiero community in general through local clubs. Beyond that, we even OFFERED our help to many local clubs with their events. The response was underwhelming, to be frank. The local clubs nearly always responded with something asking for donations of money or prizes. We never felt that's what we were supposed to be about and besides, the funds really weren't there for that. I don't fault the locals for this, it's what they felt they needed, but it was something we simply weren't able to provide.

We worked to try to hold and gain interest for autocrosses and track days and, again, the response was underwhelming. To rent a track, provide organization and insurance, and all the other associated costs it takes a $$$ committment from people that they were either unwilling, or unable, to make. We realize it's expensive and not everyone can afford it, but it ended up being one more type of event that we wanted to provide but simply couldn't make happen practically (with two exceptions). FWIW, others have tried doing it outside of CFOGi and have run into the same problems when attempting to do a FIERO ONLY event, so it's not something limited to CFOGi.

Show attendance is down all over the country. You have to have a certain level of attendance to enable a show to be realized both financially and practically. Some events, like Lowes, were under the CFOGi banner, and even then it's hard to get some minimum committments from people to come. Although the people that are doing the Lowes are busting their humps, in many cases they have been disappointed. We had a few opportunities to partner with other shows and met a lot of resistance to that from members and non-members alike.

We then decided to focus on the newsletter and sent out plea after plea for articles and stories to members and non-members. I contributed 1/2 dozen or so over the years and a few others did as well, but it was getting to the point where the newsletter was just a 2 or 3 person deal, and that's not fair to the people that write the articles or our members. It was incredibly frustrating to us to have the funds available to print the newsletters, and nothing to put in them, realistically speaking. We asked for local clubs to send us write ups of their local shows, tech and performance articles from anyone that was capable of writing them, funny stories, whatever might be of interest to our members. None came. That was truly the "straw" that broke the camel's back, for us.

Declining attendance at events.
The definite perception that the local clubs neither wanted or needed any assistance (other than $$)
The lack of interest in pure performance events (or financial ability to attend)
Lack of support in the newsletter production

These were the primary factors that weighed on our decision. There was one more, though, that really drove the nail in the coffin. We have/had regional directors covering the country. The entire country was represented with the exception of the southeast, an area we never could get any interest from anyone in taking the director's position. For the last two years, our board meetings were attended by only a handful of people and many regions had a couple of people there so that left a huge area that chose to not have a voice or give us input. When a group can't overcome apathy by their DIRECTORS, then it's time to turn out the lights and lock the doors. Notices were sent to all directors. Pleas were made. Direct mailings were done to solicit input. None of this was responded to.

I'm not bitter about any of this, and I have no hard feelings towards anyone. I am saddened, though, because I met so many friends (that have become best friends) through CFOGi events over the years. The people that don't think these things are worthwhile are really missing an opportunity, but that's their decision to make and as the old saying goes, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

The thoughts and explanations above are my own. I haven't "cleared" them with any of the other board members or discussed this post with them in any way, but I did feel that some things needed explanation. I know there are others out there that have ideas for different types of national organization. I wish them all the best of luck with them and I'll be first in line to pony up my money and time to support them. My purpose in working through CFOGi was to make things better and more fun for the Fiero community and I'll keep doing that as long as there's a way for me to do it.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jstricker: The original board selected The Hole in the Wall Gang, founded by Paul Newman and established to give kids with cancer and other life threatening illnesses a free camping experience, as our "official" charity and all along we have contributed profits and designated donations from people to this group. A finer charity I don't think exists and that is where the remaining club funds will go.John Stricker

Hey, John. Not to suggest that charity not be done, but what about keeping the money in a fund to help do a national show? We keep such a fund for our "Fiero Westfest" show out here in the west. We roll over the extra money from each year, and have built the treasury up over $2,000 to cover expenses. Now, my wife and I (or anyone else) don't have to use our credit cards to pay for t-shirts, trophies, etc. Wouldn't it make sense to do the same on a national level?

On the subject of a national show, I made a suggestion that if the standalone CFOGI show wasn't getting enough attendance, that you could rotate the national show between some of the regionals. Shows like Carlisle, Dells, Daytona, and the 25th could be the national on a rotating basis (do Pontiac every 5 years). Maybe do something/things special that only happens at the national show? Guest speakers, track day, or other special features. That fund would be available to support the local clubs or individuals that are putting on the regional event.

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 01-12-2007).]

The decision on disposition of the funds has been discussed at length and made. All directors, their deputies, and officers were given notice of the meeting and could have made their views known at that time, in addition an announcement of the decision was sent to the directors prior to it being sent to the members and no objections were raised at that time. We all felt that the best interests would be served to give the money to our charity and close the book on the organization as it exists now.

All of your suggestions were considered in the past, Bear. In fact, I recall us sitting around smoking cigars at OB and talking about just this kind of thing. We did contact some of the oranizers of the shows you mentioned (and more) and other than donating money or prizes, no other real help was ever requested.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Hey, John. Not to suggest that charity not be done, but what about keeping the money in a fund to help do a national show? We keep such a fund for our "Fiero Westfest" show out here in the west. We roll over the extra money from each year, and have built the treasury up over $2,000 to cover expenses. Now, my wife and I (or anyone else) don't have to use our credit cards to pay for t-shirts, trophies, etc. Wouldn't it make sense to do the same on a national level? On the subject of a national show, I made a suggestion that if the standalone CFOGI show wasn't getting enough attendance, that you could rotate the national show between some of the regionals. Shows like Carlisle, Dells, Daytona, and the 25th could be the national on a rotating basis (do Pontiac every 5 years). Maybe do something/things special that only happens at the national show? Guest speakers, track day, or other special features. That fund would be available to support the local clubs or individuals that are putting on the regional event.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: All of your suggestions were considered in the past, Bear. In fact, I recall us sitting around smoking cigars at OB and talking about just this kind of thing. We did contact some of the oranizers of the shows you mentioned (and more) and other than donating money or prizes, no other real help was ever requested. John Stricker

Yeah, I remember discussing it with you. I guess this means that the show in Osage Beach will be the last national show? That's unfortunate.

Dammit, so no more national trophies to win?

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Former West Coast Fiero Employee

New and Pre-Owned Auto Sales Consultant
Power Ford Valencia

Bear,

I appreciated your comments about the reason a National Fiero club has waned. I could not phrase it any better. I'd pos you again, if I could.
But, about the national fund thing... You could probably help one or two events, but the likelyhood of that money being replaced would be low... I imagine.

Besides, CFOG drafted bylaws, and the BOD committed to them and embraced the responsibility of executing them.
There was a 'fold-down' clause in the bylaws, and I know that President Schneck will adhere to them.
There are few in our community that have as much integrity.

After Wheatstock, concerned directors were trying to pin down reason for declining attendance and general club apathy. My suggestion too was PFF. Cliff put together something very magical in this place, and I think it just diminished the need for a national presence... as a matter of fact (runs off and finds old email...)

I quote something I sent to the BOD back then...

"Pennocks is a tool. A wonderful tool - and frankly,
it reaches far more people than we currently can.
Because of the wealth of info found there and the
internet (and personal) friendships that I have made
being a part of Pennock's, not to mention the
convenience, it just stands to reason that PFF is a
good starting point for my Fiero browsings. Anyone
else feel like that? -or am I just missing the point?"

So, thanks Cliff, ya killed us
Actually, w/o PFF, I am not sure the 25th would have been as well attended as it was.
Furthermore, PFF has allowed a lot of local NTFC communication to make movie nights, reminders of monthly meetings, regional Texas shows, and impromptu gatherings...

quote Originally posted by blakeinspace: Besides, CFOG drafted bylaws, and the BOD committed to them and embraced the responsibility of executing them. There was a 'fold-down' clause in the bylaws, and I know that President Schneck will adhere to them. There are few in our community that have as much integrity.

Understood. And yes, they have showed they are people of integrity.

quote "Pennocks is a tool. A wonderful tool - and frankly, it reaches far more people than we currently can. Because of the wealth of info found there and the internet (and personal) friendships that I have made being a part of Pennock's, not to mention the convenience, it just stands to reason that PFF is a good starting point for my Fiero browsings. Anyone else feel like that? -or am I just missing the point?" So, thanks Cliff, ya killed us Actually, w/o PFF, I am not sure the 25th would have been as well attended as it was. Furthermore, PFF has allowed a lot of local NTFC communication to make movie nights, reminders of monthly meetings, regional Texas shows, and impromptu gatherings...

Net effect is that PFF has helped all the exisiting shows and club attendance. Although the national show has gone by the wayside, I'm not sure PFF could have done anything positive or negative. I suspect that a lot of people don't want to drive their cars that far anymore. At least that's what we are hearing here in the west.

John, it was always hard to convince Chris to load up all the fiero warez, put a car on the trailer, and shut down the shop for a week to go cross country to a show. We tried it once when just Chris and Jesse drove thier cars to Missouri for that show. It all comes down to people not wanting to leave thier comfort zone - even with paying dues on an existing club, and you are one of the few guys out here who knows how frustrating it is to put together events just to have no one call, let alone show up.

I think the Fiero community will always remain tribe-like without 1 single organization binding them all together. I say leave that to Pennocks, RFT, etc... they have the impact of informing ALL Fiero communities of any and all shows with little to no effort.

Granted, it does strike me as disconcerning that folks from everywhere will not have a 1 location, every year, event to bring them all together. If that is not the sole purpose of 1, all-binding organization, then I must be missing something.

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Former West Coast Fiero Employee

New and Pre-Owned Auto Sales Consultant
Power Ford Valencia

quote Originally posted by Chicken McNizzle: It all comes down to people not wanting to leave thier comfort zone - even with paying dues on an existing club, and you are one of the few guys out here who knows how frustrating it is to put together events just to have no one call, let alone show up.

Some people don't even want to drive across town to support local meetings and events! Sometimes I'm surprised at the turnout for the 20th Ann. Show, but I'll be there for the 25th too!!

quote Originally posted by fierosound: Some people don't even want to drive across town to support local meetings and events! Sometimes I'm surprised at the turnout for the 20th Ann. Show, but I'll be there for the 25th too!!

It would seem that for an event to be so large, as the 20th was, there must be something (or things) happening there that really fire the imagination and make people not just want to come, but they have to come. I would assume the prospect of seeing the Fiero prototypes (especially the 90), the real Pace Car, the Waterford all-Fiero track day, Hulki and Parki speaking, the specter of 300 Fieros...with attractions like that, you just can't miss. Now, this kind of thing couldn't work on a yearly basis. It would become routine. But every five years? I'll bet the 25th is as big if not bigger than the 20th.

I really don't enjoy driving anywhere for anything for 4 days, 9+ hours a day. But I can tell you that, come hell or high water, I'll be driving one of my cars to Michigan for the 25th. It is simply a "can't miss" event.

I want to thank the BOD for their efforts. I know that they have put in countless hours with little or no reward. The work alone is difficult (always trying to make members happy, encourage participation, etc.) let alone with the lack of support.

I believe John S. summed it up quite well (as usual).

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Paul

Pontiac prestiege.... Pontiac performance...... Pontiac POWER!
For a full history of the Fiero SS: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789315

I would also like to thank everyone who contributed their time and efforts to make CFOGi a reality.
I probably am as guilty as anyone for my lack of response, and I cannot offer an excuse. Just an apology.

Best to everyone.

Not to take anything away from CFOGI, it would seem that with the small amount of Fiero owners and collectors, there may not be enough folks willing to join a national club. Fieros were made for only five years in small numbers as compared to Chevys, Corvettes and even Studebakers. Also I agree with the statement that in the past, car clubs were the only communications link in the hobby. As pointed out the internet has changed that. Lastly there is probably a general reluctance to take a colletible car a long distance to a national car show, when there are many local and regional meets to attend. Given all factors perhaps it is just impossible for a National Fiero club to thrive and survive.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo- 0-60 5.2 seconds -Best
Engine Controls, ECM goodies, Chip
re-programming & odd electronics stuff

First off I respect what the BOD tried to do and I know they only were willing to do what they thought was best for the Fiero and a club. It is clear they never would do anything to hurt the Fiero.

I also agree with Fiero Bear on many points but like the death of the Fiero there weree many more things they had against them when they started

First off with many failed clubs before them and much lost money by paying members. Also factor in the many people burned by FOCOA it make many hesitate before they join a club. I am one guilty here as I was waiting for them to prove themselves able to overcome the past before I joined. This stigma will haunt any club in the future too, It is not fair but human nature is what it is once you get burned.

I also saw how many directors were involved and how many big plans right from the start were generated. This was a very big undertaking and at time I believe too big, most clubs have to walk before they run. An informitive Quarterly on time news letter and maybe a well organized event for the first two years would have been a much easier start and work up from there. Also the more people running thing the more difficult things can be to run.

Also this was a a non paid job. I say job because it is a lot of work. Those like myself a past president of a local club know it takes time to prepare and put out news letters and organize events. If you work for a living like all of us do it takes away from family and your own play time. It becomes hard to dedicate the need work sometimes because I like my car but family comes first.

You can't beg for stories for the news letter you can ask but you also need to write them yourself and be prepared if nothing comes in. the news letter needs to be quality if you get help or not. It is wonderful if you ahve some writers you can depend on but that is not always going to happen. It is the club responsobility to get a quality news letter out and on time. Failure of this is failure a clubs life line to the paying members. This goes for national clubs as well as local clubs. You have to give them something for their money.

As for members being involved. The local clubs can also bear out that for ever 100 you have you may have 4-8 that do most of the work or are involved in most events. Larger clubs it is the same thing just on a bigger scale.

Events! The one thing Fiero Phil learned with FOCOA is that the only events that ever did really well were all in the midwest. The area of Oh, MI, IN, IL WI and some boardering states have the largest concentration of Fiero's that was true in the 80's and is still true today. The 20th had 300 cars in MI and the second FOCOA show at Indy had 300 cars. The other events in these states also have always drawn good attendendance.
Ypu get outside these areas I see post all the time that many people never see another Fiero. In these states in many areas they are still daily divers and seen on the road daily. I also want o add all shows were down this year as of Gas prices it was not just the Fiero's.


Finally to get back to running a club is a job. I feel for a Fiero club to make it it will take a hard working person to run it as a buisness. It would take a lot of work and I feel if some one is willing to dedicate there full time work to a club they should be paid or compensated. This way someone would have the time to write a good news letter and plan events, if they want to sell parts on the side more power to them. One of the largest Shelby clubs today is run this way and has Shelbys blessing. They have a Museum in Colorado and a Magazine that is great.

One key also to get a strong club today I feel is to combine it as a Fiero/Solstice/Sky/Opel GT club. By having a new car involved that is still in production you would gain many more memebers and many that are willing to pay a membership fee. I have noted Fiero owners are thrifty. [Yes I include myself here]. Also if you have a car in production you most likley would gain support from GM and this would be a shot in the arm. FOCOA was at it's strongest when GM was giving their blessing.

As for the web it is hard to beat this site but a strong web site that is near what we have here for memebers would be required. You need to update it often and keep it topical. Even have a news blog part to it since you would have the Kappa cars involved.

As for local clubs most do not want to be dragged in as it is hard enough doing your own clubs work but to add to it and possibly losing their own clubs money on event they are not controling is too much risk for most. A national club should be supportive of the locals and if they can work together find but do not depend on it. Most local clubs are non profit and are just paying from year to year, keeping it fresh with new info and just trying to keep membership up and replace lost memebers with new. A national group realy offers little to them that they don't already have and can not do without. In time each may be able to help one another but you can't depend on that.

Also you would need the owner of the club to cultivate insiders at GM. They can help in ways money sould not buy. Fiero Phil was not a workaholic but he did get a lot of help form people he met and worked through at GM. I have made some ties just with some of the thing I have done and gotten some help I never thought I would ever get in reshearch and information. It is not what you know but who you know that makes you strong.

Anyway I thank all involved for their work and I pray that someone out their would not be affraid and take on the challange to start a club again. It will not be easy but I feel it can be done. If cars like Studebaker, Nash Metropolitan, Austin Healy, TVR, Delorean, Isetta, Corsley, etc and many other small orphan clubs can make it the Fiero should. I feel if who ever start a new club studies what many of these small clubs do this can work. Your not always going to get 300 cars as even cars like Monte Carlo only get under 100 at their events. We are not Corvettes that were built in numbers over a Million.

I think the big key is keep it simple to start and build it up as support permits.

In my statements above I lay no blaime on anyone and mean not to step on any toes. These are just some of my feelings and things I have learned in working with clubs and large events over the last 30 years. I just hope my throwing out my jumbled up ideas that it may help someone in the future in ther own work setting up a future club and make it work. I for sure do not have all the answers and if I did I would have done it myself and it is always to easy to be the Monday morning quarterback. We all need to lean for others and our own mistakes. There is a right combination to get a Fiero club going someone just need to figure it out.

All I can add is that thank God we have this site as with out this site the Fiero would have litte and be much poorer for it. This has been the one thing that may not be a club but it has given us a place to help keep the Fiero family tied together world wide. A site like this would never hurt a a strong club it would only spread the word of their work.

Sorry for the rant but I just had to get it out.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 01-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by hyperv6:

I probably shouldn't even respond to this but I can't help it.

CFOGi had been around for FIVE YEARS! How long was it going to take for us to "prove ourselves" to your divine satisfaction?

Frankly, I'm not too concerned about what someone who didn't even bother to join and doesn't know what they're talking about thinks. I am concerned about what our former members think and how we could have done things better for them. If you didn't join in 5 years, you were never going to join. You were going to sit back and wait to leech off whatever events/programs/benefits there were to get without committing to anything yourself.

That may sound harsh, but your attitude has gotten on my last nerve.

John Stricker

I agree with much of what has been said but I will offer one different observation. For the most part, CFOG was anonymous. I knew who they were and I heard about events etc, but at no time was I ever part of it (except for the 20th). I think the reason is that it felt to me as though CFOG wasn't going to the Fiero owners as much as it expected the Fiero Owners to come to CFOG. Back when Phil Huff ran FOCOA he made an effort to reach out, the news letter was part of the outreach. I have every issue and I looked forward to them. The internet had an impact but the internet is a voluntary tool. I need to log in to see what's happening. A newsletter shows-up on your door and DEMANDS to be read. That is how you keep your membership up, by demanding the attention of people by reaching out to them and not just asking them to reach out to your.

This is a tried and true sales tactic that I saw in short supply from CFOG. To give you an example of a succesful use of this tool you need only look to NIFE. I love getting the newsletter, I've been member number 550 for nearly a decade and in all that time I have attented just ONE club meeting! But I still fork-up my $20 per year to get that newsletter and stay in the loop. They sell themselves. That makes the difference.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: I probably shouldn't even respond to this but I can't help it. CFOGi had been around for FIVE YEARS! How long was it going to take for us to "prove ourselves" to your divine satisfaction? Frankly, I'm not too concerned about what someone who didn't even bother to join and doesn't know what they're talking about thinks. I am concerned about what our former members think and how we could have done things better for them. If you didn't join in 5 years, you were never going to join. You were going to sit back and wait to leech off whatever events/programs/benefits there were to get without committing to anything yourself. That may sound harsh, but your attitude has gotten on my last nerve. John Stricker

John! Get over yourself. I did not take one damn thing form this damn club. If I had attendended any of your events or gotten one thing from you or your club I would have gladly paid the fee and joined. I have been a contributing and paying member to every Fiero group I have participated in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At one point I had though about joining but saw a club that did not offerer anything that would benifit me more than if I did not join. As it is it looks looks like I was not the only one who felt this way. I also had many other Fiero members tell me they felt the same.

You may be on your last nerve but you sure have a lot of nerve making claims of me leaching as I have never once taken one damn thing from you and your club. When I wanted to go to the Fiero Nationals with FOCOA I not only joined but volenteered to help at the event and wrote some things for them over the years.

Sir I just never in the 5 years saw any growth and when I would ask how many members were part of the club no one would really say. I saw more directors then members. I saw a lot of big plans and some events but nothing I really felt was worth putting my money up for or drive cross country to attend..

I am sorry I feel this way but it is my right as a consumer and I never was sold on the product offered. It is my choice to buy or not to buy. Just because I own a Fiero does not require me to pay into your program if I chosse not to praticipate.

I know many involved had all the best intent and worked hard at what they did accomplish and a thank them on there efforts. At least they tried.

As for you sir you have no idea who I am and to any make such claims on me would be the same as if I said your rude tone of this post tells be you are the one that caused this to fail. Would that be fair of me to say, NO! So just because I choose not participate in you club don't blaime me for your failure.

I just wanted to post what I think would help if someone wanted to do this again. If you wanted to use any of these ideas fines if not and move on. But to give me your petty blaime is your problem not mine. Sir your club did not sell itself to me and and many others, that is not my fault so don't blaime me.

I can understand you being upset and I don't blaime you in feeling that way but you had better look at what was done and not done with this club as the failure to get people to put up their hard earned money.

Sorry for being harsh but I am not the one blaime nor will I take a finger point from you. Who ever did not sell me and many other on the idea of joining needs your attention.

In good marketing you never blaime the consumer if you fail to maket the product well. Even the best product in the world will fail with poor marketing.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 01-13-2007).]

A quick search in active and archived posts for CFOGi and NIFE here on PFF shows 651 posts mentioning CFOGi and 643 posts for NIFE, and the oldest posts for NIFE were back in '99, a couple of years before CFOGi ever existed. To say that it was anonymous is not accurate, I think.

I do agree with a lot of what Bear posted. I'm not sure a national group is needed or even wanted. I know in my case, if someone else wants to give it a whirl I WILL join and try to attend their events (unlike yourself and hyperv6). But I won't be any part of the "management", if you will, of the group. I'm simply burnt out. We recognized a long time ago a big problem was the erratic newsletters and we tried everything we could to fix that. In the end, NOBODY wanted to do the job (or was able to, whatever, it amounts to the same thing). In the NIFE newsletters, you have a wide variety of people contributing, we could never get that. We had 3 people or so, with a rare exception, that contributed. I'm also aware that many people sent some things in quite some time ago and they never got published and that goes back to our lack of ability to find someone to oversee the job. It was also a major cause of not getting more contributors, even though they were asked to resubmit the articles.

All of the comments about the newsletters being erratic, bad, whatever, believe me, we know. But that alone was not the problem and a good newsletter/magazine will not make or break an organization. One of the things that makes NIFE, MFF, and Midwest Fieros (just to name three, not dissing anyone else) successful is LOCAL GET TOGETHERS. That forms a very cohesive bond and a lot of camaraderie that I don't think you're ever going to get through a national organization any longer, not with the information and friendships developed through things like the internet, which weren't available to many back in the FOCOA days. It is harder for people to drive their cars long distances now. I wouldn't be afraid to get in the Finale and drive it anywhere in the country, but I'm not going to do it this time of year with road conditions what they are, and in the summer I'm like everyone else, I work for a living so it's hard to get away unless you can plan a year in advance.

If I knew what the answer was, there would still be a CFOGi, but I don't. At this point, it would probably be easier and more effective for just one person to take $10,000, start their own national club, be answering to nobody, put on the shows and events they want, and run it like a benevolent dictatorship. That's really, if you think about it, the way Cliff runs this place (which, btw, I don't think is a bad thing). He makes the rules, he sets the format, if you want to come, fine. You can offer suggestions which he may or may not implement at his discretion. It's not a democracy, it's not user ran, it's his to do with as he thinks right. I think that was a large part of our problem. We EXPECTED help from our members and very few stepped up to help, even if that help was only to become a member and give us input. Those that did, you have my unending respect and admiration. The rest of you, your complaints now are falling on some very deaf ears, at least in my case.

All that said, however, I am considering something right now that does involve a type of newsletter, but I'm not sure I want to pull the trigger on it. The reason I'm not sure is that newsletters and that kind of thing are not something I'm good at, and as I said before, I'm burnt out. At the same time I feel an obligation to provide something that as a director of CFOGi we never could. We'll see how things shake out.....

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I agree with much of what has been said but I will offer one different observation. For the most part, CFOG was anonymous. I knew who they were and I heard about events etc, but at no time was I ever part of it (except for the 20th). I think the reason is that it felt to me as though CFOG wasn't going to the Fiero owners as much as it expected the Fiero Owners to come to CFOG. Back when Phil Huff ran FOCOA he made an effort to reach out, the news letter was part of the outreach. I have every issue and I looked forward to them. The internet had an impact but the internet is a voluntary tool. I need to log in to see what's happening. A newsletter shows-up on your door and DEMANDS to be read. That is how you keep your membership up, by demanding the attention of people by reaching out to them and not just asking them to reach out to your. This is a tried and true sales tactic that I saw in short supply from CFOG. To give you an example of a succesful use of this tool you need only look to NIFE. I love getting the newsletter, I've been member number 550 for nearly a decade and in all that time I have attented just ONE club meeting! But I still fork-up my $20 per year to get that newsletter and stay in the loop. They sell themselves. That makes the difference.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I agree with much of what has been said but I will offer one different observation. For the most part, CFOG was anonymous. I knew who they were and I heard about events etc, but at no time was I ever part of it (except for the 20th). I think the reason is that it felt to me as though CFOG wasn't going to the Fiero owners as much as it expected the Fiero Owners to come to CFOG. Back when Phil Huff ran FOCOA he made an effort to reach out, the news letter was part of the outreach. I have every issue and I looked forward to them. The internet had an impact but the internet is a voluntary tool. I need to log in to see what's happening. A newsletter shows-up on your door and DEMANDS to be read. That is how you keep your membership up, by demanding the attention of people by reaching out to them and not just asking them to reach out to your. This is a tried and true sales tactic that I saw in short supply from CFOG. To give you an example of a succesful use of this tool you need only look to NIFE. I love getting the newsletter, I've been member number 550 for nearly a decade and in all that time I have attented just ONE club meeting! But I still fork-up my $20 per year to get that newsletter and stay in the loop. They sell themselves. That makes the difference.

I could not agree more with Toddster. I was a member of FOCOA, CFOGI, and am currently a member of NIFE. As a long distance dues paying member I received the least from CFOGI. And I mean that in every way. I got used to a nice quarterly newsletter and being informed of what is going on in the Fiero world in my mailbox. CFOGI's newsletter was a joke and I received only 2 that I can remember. There were some other things that were advertised with paid membership that I never received. To me, CFOGI was a club geared at running events and not focusing at all to the members who will more than likely not attend. I really do appreciate their effort as I am aware of the enormous undertaking it was getting this club up and running. Unfortunately, when it came time to renew my dues I was less than impressed with what i paid for.

To all,

First and foremost, thank you everyone for both your past support and I am humbled by the kind words. Make no mistake - CFOGi was a monster at (most) times, but in the end I can honestly say that I have been places I would have never gone, saw many amazing Fieros that I would have never seen, and met a LOT of really great people I would have otherwise never have known existed. And made MANY close friends in the process!! For all of this I am truly thankful.

The decision to close the club was one of the hardest ones that we have ever made, and even to this day I wish it was one that we hadn't been forced to make. We always had to look at the big picture and constantly asked ourselves if we were doing the right thing for the Fiero owner. When we got to the point that we started to question our own existence, that's when we knew that it was time to close the club. Please understand that the BOD worked for over a year to try and prevent the closure, so this was no decision that we took lightly. Even in the end there were a few people (such as myself) that were reluctant to the club closing, and who knows - maybe those people will find themselves together again, working for the Fiero community in some manner ...

Eric Schneck

Sorry to hear it! I appreciate you going out with some class (unlike FOCOA).

There may be some, like myself, that had sent a considerable amount of money to FOCOA and recieved absolutely nothing and weren't yet ready to send money to another organization. I joined FOCOA for it's information value and the folks here at Pennock's have more than filled that need. Pennocks is today's international Fiero Organization if you think about it.

------------------
RickN
White 88GT 5spd
White 85GT Auto
White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd

[This message has been edited by RickN (edited 01-13-2007).]

quote All that said, however, I am considering something right now that does involve a type of newsletter, but I'm not sure I want to pull the trigger on it. The reason I'm not sure is that newsletters and that kind of thing are not something I'm good at, and as I said before, I'm burnt out. At the same time I feel an obligation to provide something that as a director of CFOGi we never could. We'll see how things shake out..... John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Boomtastic: Even in the end there were a few people (such as myself) that were reluctant to the club closing, and who knows - maybe those people will find themselves together again, working for the Fiero community in some manner ... Eric Schneck

I wonder if there is some benefit to having an informal organization of folks who want to do stuff for the Fiero community, a group of people who organize events, run clubs, want to help with track days or regional shows, etc? Perhaps an information exchange and think tank? Maybe a Historical Society and/or Museum group? At Fierorama in 2005, I asked Todd Amelio, Paul Vargyas, Fred Bartemeyer (sp?), and one or two other gentlemen to meet for a few minutes to discuss creating a Fiero Museum (Eric Schneck would have been included, but wasn't there. We emailed him afterward). So far, there hasn't been any action on this (as far as I know), but it is something that *I'd* like to see happen. It could start as a virtual museum, a web site with historical data and information, then hopefully become an actual physical location with cars and memorabilia. If it is a true non-profit, folks could make tax-deductable contributions. Perhaps this is a type of organization that might be able to do something for the Fiero community?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: I wonder if there is some benefit to having an informal organization of folks who want to do stuff for the Fiero community, a group of people who organize events, run clubs, want to help with track days or regional shows, etc? .........

We have this already in the Midwest. the Midwest Fiero Clubs is a group of 10 Fiero Clubs working together to promote and assist each other with their annual shows. This group is now heading into it's 4th year of existence, promoting the 20th Anniversary of each model years at the local shows, culiminating with the "Best Stock Fiero" for the year in the Midwest at Fierorama.

www.fieros.us

Here’s my thoughts, if we want this thread to become something that may be useful to some eager upstart in the future, who decides there should be some form of national or international Fiero body. Otherwise, it’s over, and there’s no reason to talk about it much.

First, the purpose of such an organization. I said from the beginning that it had two purposes: to unite and to represent. As has been said already, the Internet has taken care of the unite part, at least as much as people want to be united. To represent meant to be the main point of contact to the outside non-Fiero world, for all of us. One voice for all Fiero owners has more clout than individuals or local clubs, when you need things like corporate donations for a museum, joint ventures with other car clubs, exposure in magazines, discussions with government entities, etc.

I think hobbyists, athletes, and enthusiasts of all kinds should join their national or international organization – “just because”. That’s right – just because they should - for the good of the sport, hobby or whatever. It’s better for all that an organization is there for them.

The “what’s in it for me” attitude we saw every day since creating CFOGi always baffled me. Geez, does everything have to give you trinkets before you will be a part of it? I never wanted us to exist only for producing national events. I would have been happy to just support existing events, or someone else’s idea of a national show. But as it turned out, that’s about all anyone ever wanted from us. To me, that was just a way to put a face or an image to the club. But it’s not everything.

Second, the basic structure of the organization. When I saw the problems with FOCOA, I knew nobody would go for another club that’s run by one person. It would have to be an elected group, voting amongst themselves to make the decisions. There were MANY things that didn’t go my way, because I wasn’t the only one in charge, but even though I still believe those ideas were good ones, it was better overall that our direction was made by a BOD.

Now, with that being said, I agree with hyperv6 that we had too many people running it. In fact, in very the beginning, we had only the officers (Prez, VP, Treasurer, Secretary, Editor and Webmaster) making the big decisions. The regional Directors were to just run their regions. By the way, I didn’t want to have regions. I felt that the local clubs already group themselves naturally, and they didn’t need any help from us to do that. Plus, we didn’t need more than 5 or 6 people to run it. I expected members to volunteer and form committees for things. But I digress. The Directors started complaining that they didn’t know what the officers were discussing, and they wanted to be involved. So we changed to let the entire BOD handle everything. Well, in my opinion, that was a mistake, because it turned out to be almost all talk. Not entirely… I don’t want to upset those who really helped. But quite a few people came on board and then that was the last we heard from them. On the other hand, maybe the Directors didn’t realize what they were getting themselves into. In our heyday, as President I was sending out maybe 50 emails a day, sometimes more. Keeping up with me could not have been easy. Or possible.

The worst thing was people saying they would do something and then not doing it. They didn’t think it was such a big deal, I guess because after all it’s just a hobby club and the world won’t end just because you don’t make signs, assign car numbers, get something for the banquet, etc. But if you don’t do your job, somebody else has to. And that somebody else was the same people over & over. All the undone things together had an effect on the event, or the newsletter, or whatever. Both the 20th Anniversary and Wheatstock events could have been 10 times better than they were, if everybody who had a job had actually done their job and if they had communicated like they should have. The moral of the story is two-part: do as much as you can yourself, and have extra help signed up, because some of them will drop the ball. You will get helpers who go AWOL, and some who will sacrifice everything to get it done. There are many more of the former than there are of the latter.

Honestly, I don’t think there will be another national-type Fiero club. CFOGi was the last chance, in my opinion, and there wasn’t enough support. People don’t need it or want it.

I have one last big event idea that I have always wanted to do, and I am still going to put it on. If nobody comes, that’s fine, I will still have a great time. Except for that, and going to the 25th, my Fiero involvement will just be local & regional.


edited for spelling

[This message has been edited by Cheever3000 (edited 01-13-2007).]