Here is the trunk with finished carpet installed, and his strut bar.

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 09-27-2005).]

I see where you had to notch out the lid for the supercharger pulley end. Were there any other mods to the engine compartment or decklid that had to be done for the intercooler to fit? Thanks.

Lloyd how much do you charge to do this swap?

quote Originally posted by rasalibre4life: Lloyd how much do you charge to do this swap?

Outlined here...

http://www.fastfieros.com/turnkey_solutions/3800_supercharged_engine_install.htm

Thanks for checking,

Loyde

loyde,
how did the delivery of this sweet running machine go?
was the guy like "damn" will jumping up and down or "oh yea just park it over there"

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

[This message has been edited by ohio86se (edited 10-06-2005).]

quote Originally posted by ohio86se: loyde, how did the delivery of this sweet running machine go? was the guy like "damn" will jumping up and down or "oh yea just park it over there"

Is the guy happy? How about he just called and is currently at the drag strip and just cut a 7.7 in the 1/8th... Can someone tell me what that is about in the 1/4 ?

The car is awesome to drive. Best combination of engine, transmission, and intercooler I have put together to date. Stock camshaft in this puppy still.

I am always happier than my customers when they are happy. I can say a big smile is on my face now....

Loyde

Kevin emailed me the following information...

quote Kevin S : Anyways, my car's best time tonight was 7.7381 at 89.08mph. I had another 7.9531 at 86.70mph. The rest of my runs where 8.0270, 8.0451. The rest of the runs where higher because the tires where spinning a lot more. If it wasn't for the fact the track was so bad I would have ran better.

I checked an online listing of 1/8 > 1/4 times, and even if a little off.... 12.01 Wow, that fast for a stock engine with just an Stage 2 intercooler, MSD, 72mm ported throttle body, CAI. However, I did work on the PCM alot for this install while it was here. MustangsBeware is running it also...Here is the build website I have started on this project. > http://www.fastfieros.com/projects/kevin3800sc/kevin3800sc.htm

Loyde

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: Kevin emailed me the following information... I checked an online listing of 1/8 > 1/4 times, and even if a little off.... 12.01 Wow, that fast for a stock engine with just an Stage 2 intercooler, MSD, 72mm ported throttle body, CAI. However, I did work on the PCM alot for this install while it was here. MustangsBeware is running it also...Here is the build website I have started on this project. > http://www.fastfieros.com/projects/kevin3800sc/kevin3800sc.htm Loyde

Drool...

Is there anything special that needs to be done to remove the EGR, other than programming? And what happened to all of the vacuum lines?

The EGR on this engine doesn't use vacuum, so no lines there. The only vacuum line you are left with is for the power brakes, if you delete the evap system. There is a line for the map sensor that is tapped from under the front of the blower on the manifold that could be considered vacuum or pressure (unless that was removed as well). The cruise can be adapted to the newer style that does not use vacuum. Remove the purge soloid. What do you need vacuum lines for anyway?

[This message has been edited by Ken_86gt (edited 10-10-2005).]

Loyde, I always like your clean installs
Is it possible with such a setup to tune the obdII ecm with powrtuner alone? My location is too far away to send you the ecm for every change in the setup.

quote Originally posted by Fie Ro: Loyde, I always like your clean installs Is it possible with such a setup to tune the obdII ecm with powrtuner alone? My location is too far away to send you the ecm for every change in the setup.

Sorry so long to respond.. I was working on the next 3800SC project getting a S2 intercooler, but this one is on a 5 speed GETRAG.. Cant wait to drive this one..

The PowrTuner is well capable of tuning your PCM in a 3800SC project under OBDII.. I can even sell you a base starting file that is mod'ed for Fiero use in manual transmission, or the 1.5 DHP file can be the starter file, and just build off it.. There are tables that are difficult to understand the direction of tuning the numbers. GM made some really weird code, and HPT and DHP have to reverse engineer those BIN files to assembly language and then figure out the formulas... I can reverse engineer part of the BIN files, but I cannot read assembly language very well..

Anyway, the PT or HPT will meet anyone's needs, and the forum support is pretty good. Well, you must learn the terminlogy for the tables to understand what people post.

Like this> The IFR effected by VE with PE causing my KR to shoot to 12... I adjusted my IPW and high octane table, but no effect...

Just alot of stuff to learn in programming PCM's... Then you have to trust that DHP and HPT laid out the tables correctly. Well, I just caught a table in the 2004 GTP code that appears to be reversed in the editor. I just assisted in proving the table was reversed however, someone else guessed it was reversed, and I happen to know how to prove it.. The 2004 code is 1 meg, and likes alot being hacked by HPT or DHP correctly.

Loyde

Man, I can't say enough on how much I love this car. It never gets old beating the crap out of Camaros and Evo's. The looks on their faces when they get beat by an 80's economy car is priceless.

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: Loyde

Do you have to cut the trunk? Or did the owner just happen to want it this way? I prefer a full trunk over a custom exhaust.

quote Originally posted by TheSoloDriver: Man, I can't say enough on how much I love this car. It never gets old beating the crap out of Camaros and Evo's. The looks on their faces when they get beat by an 80's economy car is priceless.

Hey Kevin.. Glad to see you pop in and post on the car. I enjoyed building it for you. Those nice add ons put some power in that 3800SC.

Scan that timeslip for the 7.73, email it to me. I want to post it on the build page. When you get to the 1/4 that comes up about 12.02.. Even if you click a 12.25 on a internally stock 3800sc, that is just awesome.

Loyde

those 1/8 mile times and speed are almost the same as lildevils last 12.000 1/4 mile on drag radials - and i think he has more mods..

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 10-12-2005).]

quote Originally posted by jscott1: Do you have to cut the trunk? Or did the owner just happen to want it this way? I prefer a full trunk over a custom exhaust.

Jonathan... The trunk on this one had to be cut. TOG headers were used. SLP headers will clear enough to only cut the trunk 4 inches, and retain a nice muffler that is not too loud. The exhaust must be considered on the 3800sc for performance. On CGP where there are far more variations of 3800sc running, the TOG 1.625 was .2 better in the 1/4 than ported and polished stock exhaust. The TOG 1.75 was good for another .2 .. This testing was done some time back and is a old posting on CGP.Then we come back to looks after function. TOGs in silver ceramic are just so pretty. The coating is very professional and will look good even after 10k miles. The ported stock exhaust can be silver ceramic coated and made to look good also.

The WCF headers of course gives the point A to B solution for "stock type" Fiero cat to muffler solution, but the 1.50 tubes are not working for the 3800sc IMO based on 5 installs with these, and 5 with TOG or SLP.. My butt o meter can definitely feel the difference.

Comes to price when looking the WCF stuff.. 1.50 @ $595 non coated... Send to Jet Hot for coating $350 = $945
Then you step to the 1.625 tubes @ $895 non-coated, add the Jet Hot coating for $350 = $1195
Then if you want the 1.75 tubes @ CALL for quote

Harold did not get the coating on his WCF's and they looked real bad in just 1000 miles. You have to coat headers to keep any kind of nice look, but better, function.

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 10-12-2005).]

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: The exhaust must be considered on the 3800sc for performance. Loyde

Loyde you know more about 3800sc installs than I ever hope to know, so I trust your opinion. However, if I ever get a 3800sc I still don't want the trunk cut. I have never taken a car to the track so 1/4 mile time is relatively unimportant to me. However, everytime I open the decklid I'm looking at the trunk. I would never be able to get over my trunk being cut.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FastFieros:

Underside wiring and fuel lines. This is a RETURNLESS system I used. Keeps the fuel hoses clean up top.. Spark plug wires are all routed under the engine. These are MSD 8mm.

Loyde,

As always, great work!
But a returnless fuel sytem? How does that work? Is it hard to make? Anything for less clutter under the hood!
Do you have the MSD part number for the wires? I like that set up better then the way we did Ricks wires!

Don Z.

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WWW.CLEVELANDFIEROS.COM

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/052322.html#lastpost
My rear defuser
It will be painted at the end of summer!

quote Originally posted by 3.8 SC: [QUOTE]Originally posted by FastFieros: Underside wiring and fuel lines. This is a RETURNLESS system I used. Keeps the fuel hoses clean up top.. Spark plug wires are all routed under the engine. These are MSD 8mm. Loyde, As always, great work! But a returnless fuel sytem? How does that work? Is it hard to make? Anything for less clutter under the hood! Do you have the MSD part number for the wires? I like that set up better then the way we did Ricks wires! Don Z.

Don, the returnless system was easy to develop. I had a 2002 Trans AM here so I could get the LS1 from it. While I was removing it. I noticed it was returnless. I got under there and seen how GM made this product returnless since the car came with standard full flow fuel system when it was introduced. They had put the FPR in the tank with the fuel pump, but outside the tank area, there was a series of T fittings, and returns to the tank.

I took the idea and just moved the FPR from being in the tank to the outside of the tank, and then put my series of T fittings between there and the fuel rails.

---------<-------|.... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ______<<<<____ Filter --- <<<< Pump in Tank
L67 engine.. ...... |-------------<<<---------|
----------<------| .................... .. . . .. . . | __>>>_______ FPR -->>>----- back to Tank

Anything between FPR and Filter is at same pressure. Which is of course the fuel rails with the dead ends... Now, on Kevin's install, the balance of the fuel was great. No ADJUSTABLE FPR was needed. On the 88GT with the ETC throttle body, I had some trouble on that one. I had to install a adjustable FPR and set my pressure a little above stock. Now I am sure someone is going to think... Well, in a returnless, the FPR is static, no vacuum line to control pressure. If you have an editing software package, you can do whatever you want to get the fuel like you want it. I just work at it a little harder than the average tuner.

I use to work with Kinsler Fuel Injection on development back in the early 90's. We used mechanical fuel injection were the fuel flow was controlled with what we called pills. Then it was time to move to EFI. Kinsler and I had many discussions on fuel flow and were low pressure area's, and foaming, things that effect how the fuel was finally going to get to the injectors and be consistent at EACH injector.

So, fuel in the racing world is completely different from just the average daily driver. GM is moving most of their product line to returnless for weight reduction, and cleanness at the engine bay I am sure is on the minds of even GM engineers.

I know there are debates on fuel not getting the same pressure at the END injectors as the first set of injectors. I have heard all that in many discussion at race tracks.

GM answer to that is Cylinder Skewing. There's a table in the PCM that allows adjustment of fuel flow of each injector. Isn't nice to have sequential fuel injection in todays modern EFI and engine packages.

This is the skew table with all injectors getting the same fuel flow...

Loyde

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 10-14-2005).]

Loyde,

Your website has prices going from V6 to 3800SC. What about going from a 4 banger to 3800SC? What are the extra costs involved?

quote Originally posted by 87Fiero: Loyde, Your website has prices going from V6 to 3800SC. What about going from a 4 banger to 3800SC? What are the extra costs involved?

85-88 $200 Add-on charge... I have to supply some parts for this since I use some of the V6 parts. If you get 4 Add-on upgrades, I will not charge the extra $200.

84 Add $$$ based on how you want to approach the change of C500.. I can cut and splice it, or change the interior body harness to 8x year model for other supporting features to be added at the same time. No matter how many Add-on upgrades to a 84 install, no discounts.

Loyde

Can you also do auto-to-manual swaps?

quote Originally posted by FieroGT42: Can you also do auto-to-manual swaps?

Sure.. If it exists, it possible to do anything with enough time and money... http://www.fastfieros.com/projects

Dan M was a 86GT auto 2.8 to a 2004 3800SC Series III engine with a manual GETRAG 5 speed. I provided everything in the install. This also is the first Series III engine known to be installed to a Fiero. December 2003 was the project start date. I did however change the S3 supercharger to a S2 supercharger. The project pics were lost in the camera at that time also... There are not many of this install on my project page .. http://www.fastfieros.com/projects/dans3800sc/dans3800sc.htm

Loyde

Anything new on an LS4 swap? I like the idea of the engine being shorter than the LS1, not to mention not requiring an adapter plate.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Anything new on an LS4 swap? I like the idea of the engine being shorter than the LS1, not to mention not requiring an adapter plate.

I purchased a different DoD engine. I have the LH6. The LH6 is coming out with 310HP. The block is standard LS1/6 bolt pattern. The engine is all aluminum. With the DoD, the engines are going to be cheap because they will run only on the E40 PCM. I got mine brand new for under 2k. They are coming out in the rainer, trailblazer EXT, and several other platforms. Once about 50 of them are wrecked, I expect the price to drop to about $1000 used with low miles. I want to be able to offer an all aluminum V8 install for $9999 turnkey. Engine will be 5.3 without DoD. This engine has the Z06 243 cylinder heads. I will be able to convert this engine to a standard LS1 PCM platform, and use HPTuners or EFILive on it. Something to look forward to.. I can do it today, but I have 4 3800SC swaps sitting here right now.

Loyde

When you delete this vacuum port, where are you connecting your brake booster?
If you don't use an evap system, do you simply block the vent tube from the gas tank?

quote Originally posted by Ken_86gt: The EGR on this engine doesn't use vacuum, so no lines there. The only vacuum line you are left with is for the power brakes, if you delete the evap system. There is a line for the map sensor that is tapped from under the front of the blower on the manifold that could be considered vacuum or pressure (unless that was removed as well). The cruise can be adapted to the newer style that does not use vacuum. Remove the purge soloid. What do you need vacuum lines for anyway?

quote Originally posted by ApexNC: When you delete this vacuum port, where are you connecting your brake booster? If you don't use an evap system, do you simply block the vent tube from the gas tank?

here is a project with lots of pics.. http://www.fastfieros.com/projects/will_m3800/will_m.htm

The throttle body has a port on the side of it I use. Sometimes I just rubber line to it, sometimes I turn a 3/8 -6an down and drive it in.then i hardline to the rubber line.



Its the blue fitting in the side of the throttle body.

then in this next shot you can see the hardline going forward to the rubber hose.



Do not block off the old Fiero EVAP line. It is an emission control device and you should either follow your local state laws, or use the car in a manner of OFF ROAD use only. I give the options to the customer and let them decide on what they want.

Loyde

NC rules state that I have to retain stock emissions conrol devices.... does that mean I need to keep the evap canister and hook it to the L67?

Also, do you have a front mount for the L67 "in stock"- if so, how much?