The Dirty Rat Chopped, dropped and just plain NASTY! 383 Stroker MPFI with NOS 2.5" Drop 11" Brakes 17" Revolutions RCC Coilover Suspension Updated June 29 '03 www.dirtyratracing.org
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04:32 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Not a lot yet. Today I just finished making up 3 sets of my original windows so that We have an accurate pattern to cut windows to. This week I have to take all 3 sets of them and fit them into a couple of cars to make sure they fit.
After all it would be a major problem if I had 20 sets of these made up and they only fit one car.
So we're working on it.
Archie
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11:17 PM
Dec 14th, 2003
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
I am interested to see how this turns out too. I would be surprised if it was possible because each chop top HAS to be slightly different, and I would think it would be quite difficult to make them all match. I hope it can work, but I never really minded the plex windows, they worked well for me.
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[This message has been edited by Falcon Fiero (edited 01-23-2004).]
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05:04 PM
Nashco Member
Posts: 4144 From: Portland, OR Registered: Dec 2000
I am interested to see how this turns out too. I would be surprised if it was possible because each chop top HAS to be slightly different, and I would think it would be quite difficult to make them all match. I hope it can work, but I never really minded the plex windows, they worked well for me.
Well, the lexan windows are all made to be the same and they seem to be working fine. I've never heard anyone mention the lexan windows fitting improperly. Also keep in mind the windows butt against the rubber gasket, so the tolerances aren't that exacting. Surely Archie has a jig procedure for the chop tops, so they should be pretty repeatable.
Bryce 88 GT
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07:37 PM
Mar 17th, 2004
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
------------------ The Dirty Rat Chopped, dropped and just plain NASTY! 383 Stroker MPFI with N2O 2" Drop 3" Chop 11" Brakes 19" Motegi Roja's wrapped in BFGoodrich Gforce T/A KDW-2 rubber RCC Coilover Suspension Updated Jan 21 '04 www.dirtyratracing.org
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09:59 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
any word from your end?? I know you were in process on getting something done here but no updates?? Did it fall thru or just not a priority for you? I hate to be impatient but I want GLASS windows bad. And hell, if I have to do one off's, what's another $850 a piece for real glass windows at this point.. Just LMK what's up as I don't want to step on anyones toes...Same goes for you Curley - you KNOW I'm in for a set!
Rob D.
------------------ The Dirty Rat Chopped, dropped and just plain NASTY! 383 Stroker MPFI with N2O 2" Drop 3" Chop 11" Brakes 19" Motegi Roja's wrapped in BFGoodrich Gforce T/A KDW-2 rubber RCC Coilover Suspension Updated Jan 21 '04 www.dirtyratracing.org
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11:48 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Well, I'm glad this subject came back up to the top, I wanted to update this several weeks ago but couldn't find it.
I have contour forms, perimeter outlines etc. all done for our windows. The cost to make up a lot run of the windows is not exactly cheap & one mistake in ordering that lot run would have me sitting on 10 or 15 sets of windows that no one wants (see below for explaination of why people might find that they don't want them). So caution is important at this point. Right now I'm looking for another source for this process. Resently I did a survey of my Chop Top customers to determine if I should sell a kit for Chop Tops. Virtually all of the Chop Top customers responded that they jumped on the Chop Top idea because it was so exclusive. Most of them aren't too excited about everybody & his brother having one. You can look t the resent Lambo door threads and see a good reason for those kinds of thoughts from the Chop Top owners.So there will be no Chop Top Kits from me for now. That makes sitting on 10 or 15 sets of windows even more likely.
Everybody gets all excited about things like this when they 1st come up. But considering the investment and the potential problems, the guy who is putting up the cash has to do the research to make sure it's going to work.
I've found that this Bent glass place makes glass that is about 1/16" inch thicker than the original Fiero glass. That don't sound like much but let me try to explain what that 1/16" means. Let me try to explain what that 1/16" means and why I'm holding up on this for now.
All of us have seen Stock Fieros with heavy Vertical scratches in the Glass side windows. Those scratches are caused by 2 pads welded into the doors on the outside right below the outer Dew Wipes. Those pads have some felt on them but are not adjustable and can't be removed because they are the pads that hold the window solid against the rubber seal around the door. Remove them & the window will leak.
So now we know what causes the heavy scratches on the stock glass side windows on Fieros. Now 3 more factors become involved in a Chop Top situation. #1 the side windows in my Chop Top have a lot more curve in them & thus will ride even harder against those outside pads & will be even more inclined to scratch. #2 Because the side window attaches to the outside of the window mechanism, that extra 1/16" of window thickness will make an extra 1/16" of pressure against those outside pads that cause the scratches on Stock Fiero windows. #3 Those that already have Chop Tops should know that because of the extra curvature of the side windows, right now when the window is rolled down it just barely clears the inside of the side impact door beam. With anymore curvature or window thickness a modification may have to be made to the door beam to keep it from scratching the window.
Yeah I know, it's kinda exciting when someone finds a web site for someone who says they can make this kind of item. But before someone jumps in there & buys 10 or 15 set, He has to do his own research.
If I would have went out and had 10 or 15 sets of these windows made and sent sets to Curley & Rob & others. Then a few weeks later they might be on here complaining that the windows were scratching already. I would look like a total idiot & I would end up sitting on a large investment that no one wanted to use because they weren't properly engineered.
So needless to say, I'm still working on it.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 03-28-2004).]
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01:27 PM
FieroGTguy Member
Posts: 3087 From: Indianapolis , IN Registered: Mar 2001
I'm following the chop top threads closely because I have been interested in the chop top conversion ever since I saw Warber's at Fierorama. A tempered glass solution is what I've been waiting for. I'm also researching the lambo doors. I've found a place that can recreate the entire door in carbon fiber for about a grand a door while retaining all the power accessories. That way you could open it with one arm.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
Greg
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01:53 PM
Elvira Member
Posts: 933 From: Frankfort, Kentucky Registered: Jun 2001
i have a question. Archie if you do end up finding glass windows that work... will you make JUST the windows available for sale? i dont mean a chop-top kit.. just the windows..
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02:53 PM
May 26th, 2004
chester Member
Posts: 4063 From: State of insanity...moved in and comfortably numb... Registered: Jun 2001
Originally posted by FieroGTguy: ...I've found a place that can recreate the entire door in carbon fiber for about a grand a door while retaining all the power accessories. That way you could open it with one arm...Greg
That's a heckuva price, if you ask me. There's a lot of time and materials in creating molds and a one-off pair of doors. Just be advised that you are losing the beam, which means that a side impact will mean lots of mass coming in to join you I am doing either fiberglass or c/f doors for my project, but I will have a full cage with door bars to take up the slack. Otherwise, I wouldn't risk it on the street.
Archie, what about small adjustable rollers in place of the felt-covered pads. That would eliminate the possibility of scratching and allow full sealing. It would have been too time-consuming (expensive) to have a guy fiddling with the adjustment on the assembly line, but for a custom installation it would "kick things up a couple notches" - I know too much FoodTV
------------------ Todd Perkins - the member formerly known as "perkidelic" todd's hot rods
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01:31 AM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
It was for the side windows. I didn't have the time to stop when I left Florida last year. Oh well, maybe this year I'll stop now since I have two chopppers and one more to chop this year.
Yes, the glass is expensive but, once done...everyone with a Archie choptop will benifit if there willing to spend the monies.
#15? It's going in for major skin transplant Wednesday.
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02:38 PM
Apr 17th, 2005
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Well, I'm glad this subject came back up to the top, I wanted to update this several weeks ago but couldn't find it. ... So needless to say, I'm still working on it.
Archie
Any Progress? I just noticed yesterday that it looks like a Cat or something tried to claw it's way through my passenger window. Needless to say I was upset.
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06:50 PM
May 29th, 2005
FieroGTguy Member
Posts: 3087 From: Indianapolis , IN Registered: Mar 2001
if you are chopping your own car and are willing to remove the impact beams and relocate them i think you could use the original windows. when i hold mine in place with the door open it looks like there is barely enough room to have them stuffed in the doors.
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10:08 AM
PFF
System Bot
Aug 27th, 2005
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
The impact beams are not the issue. Obviously the stock glass can fit in the stock door. The issue is that the angle at the A pillar is now wrong for the stock glass after the chop. Not to mention the curvature at the B pillar. The stock glass would have to be cut down somehow. The only way tempered glass can be cut is to un-temper it. That's a little like unscrambling an egg. Not impossible but darn near.
The only viable option for glass side windows is to get new ones made. I'm waiting for someone with deep pockets to take the plunge and get the initial set made. The duplicates would only be a few hundred a piece. Archie?? Madcurl??
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01:21 PM
joshua riedl Member
Posts: 1426 From: watertown wi USA Registered: Jan 2004
not really. pull the rubber off your door seal. then you will see the screws to remove the metal peice that holds the rubber. it's this piece you could shim in whichever direction you want to seal against the window. yes the curve is wrong, i've done this so you can try it yourself. open the door and place the stock window against the seal. i think you will be a little surprised how close it comes. then look down the sides and you will see that it would just barely tuck in the door skin. now, i have not installed stock windows on a chop top so i cannot guarantee it's possible and every chop is different. if you really want glass i think this is the best, most reasonable solution. or not.
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02:40 PM
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
One of the "benifits" from having a "Archie" chop top is.....all 20-chops are the same. He has changed or modified certain interior parts which are now "standard."
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02:54 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I think you will be a little surprised how close it comes. then look down the sides and you will see that it would just barely tuck in the door skin.
So what you are saying is that you remount the stock glass at the new angle? If you get the angle right at the A pillar the B pillar will be completly wrong. Just for fun I'd like to try your experiment, maybe I will be pleasantly surprised.
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04:32 PM
Aug 28th, 2005
joshua riedl Member
Posts: 1426 From: watertown wi USA Registered: Jan 2004
If you place the glass in the door to match the change in angle of the windshield, the rear edge doesn't match vertically and there is a large gap where the door glass meets the roof. If you just leave the window alone where it matches up the roof line and the rear edge at the 'B' piller, then there is a large gap at the front edge of the window at the mirror, and the top edge of the glass is longer than the distance from the 'B' piller and the windshield.
I had a chance to play around with this idea, and using the original glass will not work......
[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited 08-28-2005).]
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02:09 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
I had a chance to play around with this idea, and using the original glass will not work......
This is what I thought would be the result but I haven't tried it. Maybe on the homebuilt chop tops you have a better chance of making it work because you can play with the angles of the roof a little bit. Every glass shop I talked to said I should have built the car around the glass instead of the other way around.
The advantage of the 20 or so Archie chop tops is that they were all built the same. If someone were to organize a group buy we could split the $2,000 setup cost of the windows and get reasonable priced tempered glass side windows. Archie is probably too busy to set it up, maybe Madcurl, Chester and I could organize something???
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02:34 PM
Aug 29th, 2005
joshua riedl Member
Posts: 1426 From: watertown wi USA Registered: Jan 2004
i only removed a half inch from my roof which is probably why mine is closer. i still think you should try it on the t-top. from what i read it seems the roof is the stock length.
Just LMK what's up as I don't want to step on anyones toes...Same goes for you Curley - you KNOW I'm in for a set!
I am doing either fiberglass or c/f doors for my project, but I will have a full cage with door bars to take up the slack. Otherwise, I wouldn't risk it on the street.
