So you thaught gas was expensive here in the U.S.A., Check out these prices.... Nation,city,price in U.s. dollars UK TEESIDE $5.64 HONG KONG HONG KONG $5.62 UK MILFORD HAVEN $5.56 UK READING $5.56 UK NORWICH $5.54 GERMANY FRANKFURT $5.29 DENMARK COPENHAGEN $5.08 NORWAY STAVANGER $5.07 NORWAY OSLO $4.93 ITALY ROME $4.86 TURKEY ISTANBUL $4.85 PORTUGAL LISBON $4.80 KOREA SEOUL $4.71 SWITZERLAND GENEVA $4.56 KOREA KOJE/OKPO $4.53 AUSTRIA VIENNA $4.50 CROATIA ZAGREB $4.32 JAPAN TOKYO $3.84 AUSTRALIA SYDNEY $2.63 CAMBODIA PHNOM PENH $2.57 TAIWAN TAIPEI $2.47 GEORGIA TBILISI $2.31 LAOS VIENTIANE $1.66 THAILAND BANGKOK $1.60 CHINA TIANJIN $1.54 CHINA SHANGHAI $1.48 RUSSIA MOSCOW $1.45 KAZAKHSTAN ALMATY $1.36 KAZAKHSTAN ATYRAU $1.35 TAJIKISTAN DUSHANBE $1.32 AZERBAIJAN BAKU $1.15 VENEZUELA CARACAS $0.14 (They keep saying on the news that gas will be $3.00,by summer here in the U.S.A.Do I see another Enron,....hold off production to drive up the price)
CHINA TIANJIN $1.54 CHINA SHANGHAI $1.48 well, why does china get gas so much cheaper, they have way more people; and their stupid Volkswagon Lupo gets upwards of 80mpg to boot.
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10:18 PM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15253 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
Us Canadians are really getting ripped off. We pay more than the averga price in Asia. Meanwhile, we're an oil producing and exporting country! Damn TAXES!!!!
everytime i read a thread with a american bitching about gas prices i say that they pay less than almost anywhere in the world.
now theres even more info for ya guys. so i dont wanna hear anymore crying.
driving your car is not a neccesity. if you dont like paying for gas... dont drive your car. simple as that.
That is true. In the summer, most of the time I ride my Specialized bicycle into work and back, but thats not an option in the winter in PA LOL. Still, only a fool wants to pay more for anything than they can. So when we long for lower fuel prices it is only natural. And it is more than possible to have lower prices and still have a decent profit margin for the oil companies. -Ezra
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10:46 PM
mrfiero Member
Posts: 9014 From: Colorful Colorado Registered: Mar 99
Originally posted by James Bond 007: (They keep saying on the news that gas will be $3.00,by summer here in the U.S.A.Do I see another Enron,....hold off production to drive up the price)
It's not quite as simple as limiting production to drive up prices. Granted, OPEC does this a lot, but realize that we (the U.S.) only get about 40% of our oil from OPEC countries (which are not all in the middle east, BTW). As of 2002 (the most recent data I could easily find), we got the majority of our oil from Canada (17%).....Saudi Arabia was second with 14.5%. Anyway, while there is some truth to the argument that we are getting shafted at the pump due to OPEC cutting production, with "only" 40% of our oil coming from OPEC they clearly aren't the only reason. There is also increased demand for oil in China. China is emerging from a very oppressive era in its history and is discovering the joys of democracy (albeit not as democratic as it could be). There are over 1.2 billion people in China, which is about 4 times that of the US, and they are all looking at cars. Over the next couple of years we will see China become the worlds leader in car sales, oil consumption, construction (building roads and various other infrastructure), and the list goes on. Believe it or not, as far as cheap gas went, it was to our benefit that China remained communistic. It is predicted that within the next decade (probably sooner) China's demand for oil will equal current world production capacity (approx. 27 billion barrels per year). Unless there is a significant increase in infrastructure throughout the world to pump more crude out of the ground, high gas prices will only get higher.
There are other factors to consider too.....these are from a website that I found (http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html).
-The price of Crude is up - as high as $55 per barrel. This is because worldwide supply is tight and 1) gasoline demand in the US is up despite high prices - 4.3% more than 2003. Americans simply refuse to conserve. This is not trivial considering that the US, with 5% of the world's population, consumes 45% of the gasoline produced on earth. 2) Gasoline demand is surging in China, where crude oil imports increased 30% in 2003
-Refinery capacity in the US is near its maximum. One refinery in California is to close later in 2004. Oil tanker capacity for trans-oceanic shipping is also 100% reserved for the forseeable future, and shipping costs have nearly tripled
-The US deficit, around $500 billion in 2004, causes the value of the dollar to decline. Because oil is priced in dollars, no matter where in the world it comes from, producers want higher prices in order to maintain their income.
-The US Government is buying at these high prices supplies for the strategic petroleum reserve. A minor impact, but some
-Local requirements for special gasoline blends to meet environmental regulations result in smaller batches, which are more expensive for refineries to produce. Applies especially to California.
-Costs reflect distance from refineries (transportation cost). In the US, 50% of gasoline is refined in the Gulf Coast.
-Variations reflect local taxes. Federal excise tax on gasoline is about 19¢ per gallon; state tax averages about 23¢ per gallon; in California there is an additional 7.5% sales tax.
-Economic woes in Venezuela are impacting US imports more than problems in the Middle East. US imports from Venezuela were down 19% in 2003, and Venezuela, Mexico, Canada, and Saudi Arabia are the US's main suppliers, normally at about 15% each — but Venezuela in 2003 only provided about 12% of our imports
-Any time there is a problem with a pipeline or refinery, it can impact the supply of gasoline at least in local markets, and the price can spike
-Credit card fees paid by retailers amount to about 3.5%, or 7 cents a gallon at $2.00 per gallon. This is more than enough to eliminate all profit for the retailer, and in many cases results in an actual loss of several cents per gallon -- absorbed either through increased pump prices or in other elements of a retailer's business. Retailers with no other sources of profit may go out of business, further restricting ability to deliver gasoline. So don't blame the corner gas station -- even the company-owned ones. The latter may absorb such losses through profits elsewhere in the system, but a loss is still a loss.
-Even with all of this, the true price of gasoline has fallen more than 40% from its inflation-adjusted price of $2.77 per gallon in 1981. And in the US, at $1.90 per gallon, we pay about one-third of the price western Europeans and others have paid for many years. Icelanders pay about $6.12 per gallon
**obviously this is a little old.....I haven't seen $1.90/gallon in awhile now. We're paying $2.25/gallon where I live**
At any rate, I know that I probably answered a question that wasn't asked, but I just wanted to clarify that we aren't paying more for gas merely due to decreased production (although that is certainly part of the reason why). Personally, I hope it does hit more than $3/gallon. No, I'm not rich or an idiot, but I think if we started paying the fair market price for gas (not heavily subsidized as it was/is) then we would reconsider our "love" of SUV's and crap that gets piss poor fuel economy. I'd like to see a return to fuel efficient cars......with the technology available today, we can have powerful cars that get great mileage, but we refuse to utilize this technology because it's easier/cheaper not to adapt. A perfect example is the current hybrid technology. Look at the Honda Accord V-6 hybrid. It has 255 HP and gets over 30 MPG. We needen't sacrifice power for fuel economy, we only need to rethink the methods of achieving said power.
I'll jump off my soapbox now.....I could go on and on about this.
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11:08 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
you know that it is technically possible to run a IC engine off water if yu think simple about it ( DO NOT POST HOW there is some major probs with this if you can not figuer it out PM me
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03:07 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Anyone want to join me in developing a hybrid Fiero with 300 hp and gets 30 mpg?
Mine makes twice that and got 31 mpg on the highway going to Wheatstock.
As for rising gas prices, its just time to chop the oil tycoons at the knees and start with bio diesel and methanol production in the US. We could become fully independent from the US and the middle east can go about selling their overpriced oil to whomever they want. They say if we could produce methanol (or ethanol) on the levels that gasoline is refined in the US, it would be 40c a gallon. Of course it takes about twice as much methanol to sustain combustion (air fuel ratio 7:1 aprox), but still, it would save a fortune, not to mention keep the money in the US, make farmers money for a change, and get rid of some of the burecracy (sp) in this country. Lets get an ethanol methanol push going. Im down to change over my car to run on alky!
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03:19 AM
Soaper Member
Posts: 1417 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Jun 2002
hmmm solar fiero.... or diesel fiero.. haha btw what diesel engine fits in the fiero thats a thought!
anywho in short reply why did gas go back up? cause a oil placed close? and its talking about going up? i remember in 1996 it was like 96cents a gallon.
What everybody is forgetting about is taxes. How much dowe pay per gallon to the federal and state governments? A school corporation near claims to pay $.70 per gallon federal tax for diesel fuel.
Fran
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06:31 AM
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
hmmm solar fiero.... or diesel fiero.. haha btw what diesel engine fits in the fiero thats a thought!
you seen the price of diesel lately? 2.33 it's about the same as mid grade gas.
on a side note, went up north 50 miles in michigan and some place had it for 1.99. I was like what the hell, so my dad did a u-turn and filled up It'll never be below 2 again, can I complain yes. This all seemed to happen after 9/11, before that gas was 1.20-1.30
guess the gas company's thought it was only fair. Medical is outrageous so they thought they'd follow along. ------------------ http://formula.cryptnix.com
[This message has been edited by LoW_KeY (edited 04-04-2005).]
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07:09 AM
PFF
System Bot
Gordo Member
Posts: 2981 From: East Guilford, NY, USA Registered: Mar 2002
everytime i read a thread with a american bitching about gas prices i say that they pay less than almost anywhere in the world.
now theres even more info for ya guys. so i dont wanna hear anymore crying.
driving your car is not a neccesity. if you dont like paying for gas... dont drive your car. simple as that.
maybe in a country with a good public transportation structure - but in most of america if you can't drive you can't hold down a job and are very shortly homeless
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07:30 AM
snowcrashs-wife Member
Posts: 97 From: Sugar Land, TX, USA Registered: Mar 2005
Yep, I think it's time to brush up on my Spanish! Gas here in Houston is about $2.05 a gallon now. They keep saying that the resources for production are decreasing, blah blah blah, but it's not necessarily true. There are plenty of reserves that the government controls, but won't use for whatever reason. Anyways, glad I don't live in Hong Kong! But then again, I think they can walk or ride a bike to get to where ever they need to in their town. Here, you have to drive. Everything is always just outside of walking/riding bike distance and then it gets hotter than you know what in the summer! Some people around here drive around in their cars during the summer just to have A/C! Ick...it's gonna be bad this summer!
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08:07 AM
beachbomb Member
Posts: 1028 From: Screven, GA Registered: May 2000
BAH! dont drive then! this "gasoline" thing is just a fad. one day people will look back at these days the same way we look back at bloodletting & leaches. silly people. and this internet hoopla! bah!
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09:22 AM
FieroGTguy Member
Posts: 3087 From: Indianapolis , IN Registered: Mar 2001
Due to the economic changes in China, gas prices will likely triple in the next 3-5 years. All the economists agree. There hasn't been a new major find in oil in the past 10 years. Hopefully there is a jackpot in Alaska, but dinosaur's probably liked the warmer climate. ::shrugs::
I'll have to get all the kills out of my system with my GT before it goes hybrid. heh
Greg
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09:23 AM
mrfiero Member
Posts: 9014 From: Colorful Colorado Registered: Mar 99
Due to the economic changes in China, gas prices will likely triple in the next 3-5 years. All the economists agree. Greg
I guess I should have mentioned that I'm an economist in my earlier post!
The increased demand we are seeing from China will only increase as time goes by. World oil producers will have a tough time keeping up with their demand, let alone the rest of the world. Right now America consumes about half of the oil currently produced......with China entering the picture, the natural progression of things is for price to go up as demand increases (holding everything else constant.....this is basic supply & demand). The only way we (the US) can continue to consume at the rates we are right now is to either pay more for it (as we are right now), find a way to increase supply (like drilling in Alaska) or overthrow China's government and revert them back to the ancient times they are emerging from (obviously I am joking here!).
Believe it or not, the US is the world's third largest producer of oil. We were number one as early as 1996. The only real reason we import oil is to conserve ours. We have closed down so much of our infrastructure or refused to tap into potentially rich fields (due to politics.....look at Alaska) that we can't physically produce as much as we need without importing. Also, up until a few years ago, it was just cheaper to import oil than pump it from our own ground. This again is simple economics. If something costs your country $1 to make, but you can outsource it for 50 cents, you outsource it until that cost rises to the point where it woulod be cheaper for you to produce it. Why do you think we have been hearing more rumblings about drilling in Alaska lately? There is the potential there for a large, untapped reserve that could help alleviate our reliance on imported oil.
Another thing to consider is the cost involved in finding "new" oil. Much like R&D in any other industry, the oil companies will recoup their costs of finding this new oil by passing those costs along to the consumer.
The only other resolution is for us to quit driving so much, produce & use vehicles that get higher mileage or build up a vastly improved public transportation system like Europe has. Obviously this would only work for major urban areas since the US is such a vast land (it would be impractical for a large scale, nationwide public transportation system).
The current CAFE standards for US cars is 27 MPG (trucks/SUV's are substantially less), which is downright pathetic. There is no excuse for such a low number, other than our inane need to have a Hemi or brag about how much power our hot rod has. US automakers need to spend more $$ developing fuel efficient (but not wimpy) cars that will reduce our oil needs. Of course you have the oil lobby in Washington to contend with. They are really the ones to blame (along with the politicians whose palms they grease) for such low standards. You see, it isn't in the oil companies best interest for Detroit to produce fuel efficient cars, which is why CAFE standards are so low.
Also, I like the idea of ethanol and actually did a lot of research on it for my degree. The current problems with it as a fuel is it's lower potential energy per unit volume. Essentially, one gallon of ethanol has approx. 70% of the energy available in one gallon of gasoline. This lower energy content means that your car will develop less power and your fuel economy will be less. Of course, assuming high production rates and lower costs, this is irrelevant since it is a renewable energy source and tailpipe emissions are largely CO2 and water.
There is a product on the market called E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gas), but not very many cars are designed to use it. The main reason is the corrosive nature of ethanol (it is an alcohol afterall). Stainless steel fuel lines and gas tanks would need to be installed as well as a modified fuel system (injectors, knoock sensors, etc.) so the alcohol doesn't melt anything. Before I bought my 2004 Civic, I looked into buying an E85 compatible car, but the only real choice was the Ford Taurus, which isn't anything I want to drive. Again Detroit is resisting change (likely due to politics).....it only costs about $1000 more to make a vehicle E85 compatible and that number will drop to nothing if all cars are built that way (economies of scale). Detroit argues that sales are sluggish and therefore why spend the $$ building E85 cars. This is kind of silly thinking when you consider the choices they gave us and the current high price of ethanol. As production increases (both in ethanol and E85 cars), the price will drop. This is essentially what economies of scale is.
Wow.....another soapbox rant! I'll hop off now......thanks.
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12:02 PM
Apr 5th, 2005
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
overthrow China's government and revert them back to the ancient times they are emerging from (obviously I am joking here!).
you know what makes me wonder is how did China all of a sudden need so much fuel? I know theyre becoming industrialized and such, but it practically happened overnight. Sorry, but you can "industrialize" an entire nation of some odd billions of people in 6 months. I think its a ploy to run us out of gas and strike an attack. What are we gonna do if we dont have any fuel? Cant do much if a war breaks out.
Another thing that pisses me off, is that on the stock market channel they say the price of oil goes up so much a barrel each day, then immedately the price goes up at the pump. Funny how the price of the raw crude can change the price of the final product in the tank below the gas station when it takes about 3-4 months to get there. I think im gonna raise the price of milk at the supermarket because our baby cow that was just born has pneumonia.
Ok, for those that say that you don't have to drive your car. My own little rant. I farm.
I burn about 9000 gallons of diesel a year.
Do you want to eat. Ok. Nuff said. I have a right to complain about the fuel prices. It is not an option for me. For some of us we HAVE to burn fuel. Can't pull a planter with a bicycle.
So don't give me any guff when I say that fuel is hurting me right now at its price.
Sheesh, some of you don't live in the reality that I have to and you get on your little soapbox and say don't complain. Well I am going to.
Done.
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07:33 AM
Tigger Member
Posts: 4368 From: Flint, MI USA Registered: Sep 2000
What everybody is forgetting about is taxes. How much dowe pay per gallon to the federal and state governments? A school corporation near claims to pay $.70 per gallon federal tax for diesel fuel.
Fran
Sure but the increases have nothing to do with taxes. What do you suggest... toll stations on every road?
quote
Originally posted by Kohburn:
maybe in a country with a good public transportation structure - but in most of america if you can't drive you can't hold down a job and are very shortly homeless
And I believe they are cutting Amtrak from the budget. All the talk about alternative fuels, it may happen but with the way things are setup not on a large scale anytime soon. We need some more secret energy task force meetings!
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07:35 AM
PFF
System Bot
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
Sheesh, some of you don't live in the reality that I have to and you get on your little soapbox and say don't complain. Well I am going to.
Nobody said you don't have the right to complain.....you do, so go right ahead!
As for what is reality and what isn't....the reality is that the price of gas/diesel, et al, will go nowhere but up from here, so you will need to make provisions in whatever budget you run for future increases, etc. If you cannot survive in your current occupation due to high fuel costs then perhaps finding another line of work is in order. I'm not trying to ba an ass here, just being realistic. I used to live 32 miles from where I worked and commuted. Even with my Civic getting right at 40 MPG I would burn through a tank of gas every 4 days. If I continued to commute I would have spent more $$ on fuel than the job was worth (even though I loved the job). The solution? I moved! Problem solved. Now a tank of gas in the Civic lasts me 3 WEEKS. Now the convertible is another story.
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08:25 PM
jsmorter1 Member
Posts: 674 From: Creston, Ohio Registered: Jun 2004
Due to the economic changes in China, gas prices will likely triple in the next 3-5 years. All the economists agree. There hasn't been a new major find in oil in the past 10 years. Hopefully there is a jackpot in Alaska, but dinosaur's probably liked the warmer climate. ::shrugs::
I'll have to get all the kills out of my system with my GT before it goes hybrid. heh
Greg
So if we quit buying anything and everything that is made in China then we could permanently cripple their economy making more gas available for everybody and maybe even create some jobs in this country so people could afford to buy gas
------------------ I am sick and tired of being sick and tired Virgin 88 coupe in the process of losing its virginity
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09:02 PM
sonic50 Member
Posts: 3873 From: All over the USA Registered: Aug 2004
What is going to be sad is that right now we think that 2.20 is alot of money. One day it might be 8.50. But by then we might be have lpg. Lpg is a type of gas that we can make and it last longer in the car but at the same time it gives you more Hp!
What is going to be sad is that right now we think that 2.20 is alot of money. One day it might be 8.50. But by then we might be have lpg. Lpg is a type of gas that we can make and it last longer in the car but at the same time it gives you more Hp!
If you think $2.20 is a lot, don't come out to CA.
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02:40 AM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
Music: Snoop Dogg "Gin and Juice (Money on my mind)", 1993
------------------ www.yellowfiero.com/fiero.html 17" DEZENT T wheels with 215/40 tires front and 235/45 rear, KONI shocks, EIBACH lowering springs, drilled/slotted rotors, SS brake hoses. PU dog bone, all bushings and engine mounts, K&N air and oil filters, OZELOT exhaust, Mercedes SLK yellow paintjob, Mr. Mikes leather seats, door skins, shift and e-brake boots. MP3 deck and custom subwoofer behind passenger seat, F355 style front. Fiero Store rear swaybar, strut tower brace, black carpet, air intake. Rodney Dickman's competition short shifter, SS vacuum lines and deck lid strut. Billet aluminum dash kit from Kitcarman.
[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 04-06-2005).]
I drive an hour each way to work right now, in a truck that gets 24ish miles to the gallon, I am stuck right now on what to do about the situation. I am not a mechanic, I have tried before to be a mechanic, and burned two cars to the ground ( at different times ). I have many cars sitting right now at my shop, and am trying to work a deal to get at least one of them driveable. The main problem is that right now with everything said and done I usually have less than $5.00 left at the end of the week. No I don't go out and waste money, I don't smoke, I don't eat fast food. I do spend around $100.00 a week in gas right now, and its going up. My electric company said on the news last week that becouse of high gas prices they were being forced to raise their rates also. Right now I am in the process of Giving up the last thing I have (my house) and moving back in with my in-laws. And I firmly believe that if my fuel bill hadn't doubled in the last 3 months I would be able to stay in my house. On the plus side we will be 15 minutes closer to work. Not everyone is able to change to a better life and just up and move closer, or go and buy a car that uses less fuel, it just doesn't work that way in the real world. We have to make sacrifices and cut out the things we like for the things we need, and suffer until it gets better. And hell ya I'm gonna ***** if somebody is making a buck off of my misery, I can't understand why some of you in other countries havn't led a revolution yet? I do everything in my power to change things for the better and if all I have is the power to ***** , than so be it!!! Brad
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10:45 AM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
The one thing you have to understand are the political and economic reasons behind high gas taxes. In countries such as the US where gas is/used to be cheap there are no incentives to develop bus or train networks as they couldn't compete with the car. One reason many people use public transportation (and therefore there is a demand) in Europe ARE the high gas prices caused by the high taxation. Many people nowadays do not own cars, do car sharing or use the bus/tram/train often even if they have a car. The US used to have a great train and bus network but the main reason it ended up in the delapidated state it is in now is because of low gas prices.
Another point is the kinds of cars produced and bought. Due to the high gas prices the demand for fuel-efficient vehicles in Europe is high - trucks (as in 4x4s of the US size) are almost never seen on the street. People often choose one model over another on fuel efficiency and emissions alone. That is politically encouraged by the high taxes on gas - they are "educational" taxes. Everyone is free to choose their car as long as they can afford it....
Even though I suffer it I agree with the basic principle. After all, emission control is in our own interest. But sometimes the role of government needs to be to push the public good over the freedom of the individual...
quote
Originally posted by twofatguys:
I can't understand why some of you in other countries havn't led a revolution yet?
The one thing you have to understand are the political and economic reasons behind high gas taxes. In countries such as the US where gas is/used to be cheap there are no incentives to develop bus or train networks as they couldn't compete with the car. One reason many people use public transportation (and therefore there is a demand) in Europe ARE the high gas prices caused by the high taxation. Many people nowadays do not own cars, do car sharing or use the bus/tram/train often even if they have a car. The US used to have a great train and bus network but the main reason it ended up in the delapidated state it is in now is because of low gas prices.
Another point is the kinds of cars produced and bought. Due to the high gas prices the demand for fuel-efficient vehicles in Europe is high - trucks (as in 4x4s of the US size) are almost never seen on the street. People often choose one model over another on fuel efficiency and emissions alone. That is politically encouraged by the high taxes on gas - they are "educational" taxes. Everyone is free to choose their car as long as they can afford it....
Even though I suffer it I agree with the basic principle. After all, emission control is in our own interest. But sometimes the role of government needs to be to push the public good over the freedom of the individual...
a mojor problem is America is fairly large and other than the centralized major cities which do have public transportation, everything else is MUCH to spread out.. or the comercial zones are all clumped without enough residential area for the company employees to be close to work.. things tend to be layed out with a central comercial zone with employees traveling from up to 60 miles away for work every day -- it would require billions of dollars and 20+ years of total infrastructure change to change americas layout to make nationwide public transportation even remotely viable. The commercial center of Washington DC and Baltimore has a comuter base traveling from 3 states to get to work every day.
what we really need is the government to start programs to help encourage and support the use of alternative fuels like alchohal/eletric charging stations / something cost effective other than petroleum products. because for the cost of building enough public transportation to effect enough of the population the govt could just stocp taxing fuel all together and save themselves the trouble.
LOL
It'll never be below 2 again, can I complain yes. This all seemed to happen after 9/11, before that gas was 1.20-1.30
Right now I am in the process of Giving up the last thing I have (my house) and moving back in with my in-laws. And I firmly believe that if my fuel bill hadn't doubled in the last 3 months I would be able to stay in my house. On the plus side we will be 15 minutes closer to work. 
