and why might you ask?? Long story short, I commissioned Sage, ( whom is the builder of many fine parts that are sold through the fiero warehouse ) to build me a one off set of wing stands that move the wing back about 3" from stock location yet using the stock mounting holes. Mine were a 5" stand to start with so that is the height that i wanted to stay with.. and here are the results...
well the wing stands are just what the Kid ordered and i'm very pleased but here's the odd side of the story.... Sage liked the finished design so much that he wanted to make molds and offer them to the rest of the Fiero community, well we came to a new price for the one off stands and i said " If you think that they're a money maker for you ?? By all means go ahead!! " So to my dismay i'm now informed that Sage isn't making ANY wing stands because the Fiero community doesn't think that he prices are fair, that they're too pricy?? Well your loss is my gain..
------------------ still plays with cars..
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 09-30-2004).]
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07:49 PM
PFF
System Bot
Ken86GT Member
Posts: 97 From: Virginia, USA Registered: Sep 2004
real CF raw material prices haven't changed - was 50$ per yard 6 years ago and its 50$ per yard now plus resin and the guy has to make money and pay off overhead costs like facilities, molds, electric bills, his own time
people really don't understand how much expense is involved in just running a business.
i could make a CF hood on my own time for about 200$ in materials but there is a lot mroe too it than that for a business man
I am glad to see some one is really talking sense here and reading through these post I think this is the reason why no one wants to really put out the money to do R&D and production on anything new for these cars as opposed to the rice market where it is more lucrative. The cost of the final product mass produced is not cheap when you figure in consultation fees,designing fees ,mold making and production and marketing then is there a demand for it especially in the Fiero scene, so to be realistic it just can't happen in this limited market of ours,I recently contacted a company in Tiawan that could reproduce tail lights of any design evev Altezza styles but in order to produce these they require a minimum order of 5000 pieces,granted they were asking $22 a set that comes out to $110,000 not including shipping so the maths will not add up to make it profitable.If it is to be done by an individual it will still cost a sizeable change to pull this off so it is still not worth it then if you go ahead on a limited scale you run the risk of being stuck with because every one wants the diagram or plans to make it for them selves. So with all said and done we have to improvise and do what we can with modding what we have and be satisfied ..............gentlemen have a productive day.
[This message has been edited by Master Tuner Akimoto (edited 09-30-2004).]
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07:59 PM
85SE Member
Posts: 918 From: Paradise, Newfoundland, Canada (yes, the town is named Paradise!) Registered: Feb 2000
I'm not into spoilers at all, but I agree it's a pity that Sage has had to make that decision. Those are neat looking and certainly seem to give a different effect to the stock wing.
Andrew
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07:59 PM
wetpoop Member
Posts: 921 From: Baltimore Maryland USA Registered: Feb 2004
I must have missed the discussion on the price for his stands. I personally would have paid for them. I think they are worth it... especially if you, like me have no body working skills. In order for me to move the wing, I would have to pay a shop to fill the old holes, then repaint the decklid after the repair. I think his solution is very cost effective.
quote
Originally posted by Kameo Kid:
around $150, for the work involved it should be higher!!
I must have missed the discussion on the price for his stands. I personally would have paid for them. I think they are worth it... especially if you, like me have no body working skills. In order for me to move the wing, I would have to pay a shop to fill the old holes, then repaint the decklid after the repair. I think his solution is very cost effective.
I have the ablity to do the body work needed to pull off the moving of the holes, but think that this is a much better way of doing it when looking at the costs virses time to do it.. i think that $200 dollars is would still be a good price for this product given the time and materials and costs that it takes to bring them to market.
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09:36 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Who said $150 was too much?? That's about what I paid for my 5" stands from the FieroWarehouse, then I had to drill new holes to move them back three inches, then it has to be glassed in because of the curvature of the decklid. I would have bought these Sage Stands in a heartbeat.
Who said $150 was too much?? That's about what I paid for my 5" stands from the FieroWarehouse, then I had to drill new holes to move them back three inches, then it has to be glassed in because of the curvature of the decklid. I would have bought these Sage Stands in a heartbeat.
well the reason i agreed to a mold was to help Sage make some money off my idea and expand his product line. When he told me about disscontinuing the wing stands all together it was a shock.
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11:18 PM
Oct 1st, 2004
FieroGTguy Member
Posts: 3087 From: Indianapolis , IN Registered: Mar 2001
Umm... Why is this the first I heard of these, or the price? I'd place a pre-order for a set @ $150. Any way to change his mind???
Greg
can't you read man??? the reason you've never seen them is because this was my idea and i commissioned Sage to build them for me !!! this is the FIRST time they have ever been seen.! I let him make a mold off my original stand and this is the finished piece.
if sage doesn't want to doit maybe you can get the molds to fibersmith.. he doesn't have a lot of the same overhead costs and could use the extra business
if sage doesn't want to doit maybe you can get the molds to fibersmith.. he doesn't have a lot of the same overhead costs and could use the extra business
nope, the molds are Sage's, a joint effort between us and if he doesn't want to make them then that is it.
i'm not making a commission on each sale so he can do what he will..
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 10-01-2004).]
well i didn't mean for you to really do anything - just meant that sage could give/sell the molds to someone else if they have no intention of making them
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08:08 AM
FieroGTguy Member
Posts: 3087 From: Indianapolis , IN Registered: Mar 2001
can't you read man??? the reason you've never seen them is because this was my idea and i commissioned Sage to build them for me !!! this is the FIRST time they have ever been seen.! I let him make a mold off my original stand and this is the finished piece.
For the record, I can read quite well. From your post, you make it sound as if Sage had a post somewhere (presumably with pictures) where he got flamed for the price to the point of not making them at all. If there is no such post, and you are posting to gloat about your "one off's"... Then they look very nice, and enjoy. If they become for sale, then make a post accordingly and I'll place an order. Simple enough?
Greg
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08:28 AM
PFF
System Bot
Philphine Member
Posts: 6136 From: louisville,ky. usa Registered: Feb 2000
From your post, you make it sound as if Sage had a post somewhere (presumably with pictures) where he got flamed for the price to the point of not making them at all.
that's how i uderstood it also, even after going back and re-reading the original post.
i've already got a wing that sits up and back i like, so my worry is, is this an across the board decision? is he talking of ending the business?
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09:12 AM
wetpoop Member
Posts: 921 From: Baltimore Maryland USA Registered: Feb 2004
I am really kind of not understanding this thread. I like the design of the new stands, and like others, I agree that the price is reasonable. But if the stands aren't going to be made, nor the molds given up, what's the point - to brag about your design and tell everyone else they are too cheap? I don't like to get into pissing matches, but what is the deal.
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09:43 AM
Master Tuner Akimoto Member
Posts: 2267 From: South Florida,USA Registered: Jul 2003
"poop" I don't think Kameo is gloating or bragging about his wing but from what I understandhe is proud of it who wouldn't be and could have gone into production if the market was strong enough to warrant him producing them,but we all know that the Fiero following is not as affluent (money wise) as say a Corvette or Supra or Porsche club where money is no obstacle and would drop that money in a heart beat.Let us be for real and have a reality check and not fool ourselves.If you read my above post you would understand what I mean here is an example "Wmac" designed some projection lights a few years ago but never revealed the details on the workings and never decided to build a kit I went ahead and invested money to reproduce a working model and posted it on the forum here and I was swamped by members asking not to buy the product but to send them a copy of the drawings that I had to pay for so you understand where I am coming from as a small business man .
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10:29 AM
wetpoop Member
Posts: 921 From: Baltimore Maryland USA Registered: Feb 2004
I guess "bragging" wasn't the best choice of words to use above. It is just frustrating that when an idea comes along as good as this one, that it won't be produced because of our market. I think that everyone and anyone into fieros knows that you will not become a millionare selling parts for them. No, we don't have a market like that of Corvette, but that also makes it nice. When you go to a Corvette show it is primarily all older people with money to burn, and radically expensive cars. Go to a fiero show and there are all ages of owners with all sorts of custom designs and ideas. This is great because the fiero allows younger people like myself develop an interest in cars, creativity, and personal expression, w/o having to rely on a civic and what others think looks cool. It's just upsetting, because many people have expressed interest in moving thier wings back, and this would be a simple solution for a reasonable price. (sigh)
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11:19 AM
DelawareFiero Member
Posts: 1050 From: Tod vor Schmach!! Registered: Apr 2004
And now back to the subject on hand............Yo kid, lookin good there, but like I told you not my cup-o-tea. I still like the direction you take your car, even if some of the concepts you go with are not to my likeing, but hey thats what cusomizing is all about. Any progress on finding a company to tune the car, or are you still going to do that yourself, there are a few more weeks of semi-decent weather left before it all goes south and the lousy weather starts setting in.
I am really kind of not understanding this thread. I like the design of the new stands, and like others, I agree that the price is reasonable. But if the stands aren't going to be made, nor the molds given up, what's the point - to brag about your design and tell everyone else they are too cheap? I don't like to get into pissing matches, but what is the deal.
I agree with poop on this one. The idea isnt exactly ground breaking, they started producing 7" flared stands that used stock mount holes in ? mid August? Only difference in appearance is in the 7" to 5" makes the slop more pronounced. This is the ground breaking product that you talked about being a first seen for the fiero, one off etc? *yawn*
$150??? I ordered stands from fierowarehouse and they came to over $200..
I said about $150 I don't remember what exactly I paid to the Fiero Warehouse. I don't like to keep spreadsheets because it would be shocking how much I really spend.
If you want your spoiler pushed back it looks pretty hot when you actually relocate the holes further back.
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01:27 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
All of us who consider investing money have to fight with this same dilemna. It costs a lot of money to develop anything and it just seems that Fiero owners are not willing to let a person make their money back on a product... I think we are lucky to have the few suppliers we have because of this...
I was going to end up making about $50 each on the 355 noses I was going to import. This was going to be compensation for a year worth of setup, investing my money up front, driving to L.A. to pick up the pieces, repacking them individually and shipping them... And people complained that the price was too high...
In my opinion, if we ever want to get the kind of aftermarket support for our cars that imports enjoy, we have to be willing to support the people who are willing to make the parts for us.
Too bad to hear about another product not being produced because of money...
All of us who consider investing money have to fight with this same dilemna. It costs a lot of money to develop anything and it just seems that Fiero owners are not willing to let a person make their money back on a product... I think we are lucky to have the few suppliers we have because of this...
Too bad to hear about another product not being produced because of money...
That's not the situation here. KK already paid the price for the R&D for the one off. He let Sage at no cost or commission to take molds of it to make some extra $$$ from his work. So the development was already paid. The only cost is the labor making the molds, the materials, then pulling/finishing the products. Cost of materials and molds for the pre-rders here "should" put the investment under $50, leaving $100ish profit a set. It seems production won't be taking place due to the lack of motivation rather than profit.
Regardless, the manner at which this was posted is what's confusing people. It is one thing to post pictures of your new item (one off, or not) for discussion. But your point is either A) Too get orders to prove there is enough interest to make, and share the enjoyment of this cool mod with others... Or, B) Telling the open forum, "look what I have and look what you'll never have you cheap bastards" ::inserting words in your mouth::
Which is it? "A" or "B"? If "A", tell me where to send the $$$ when it is available. I am guessing "B" just because you're being more pissy than helpful.
For the record, I can read quite well. From your post, you make it sound as if Sage had a post somewhere (presumably with pictures) where he got flamed for the price to the point of not making them at all. If there is no such post, and you are posting to gloat about your "one off's"... Then they look very nice, and enjoy. If they become for sale, then make a post accordingly and I'll place an order. Simple enough?
Greg
nah Sage didn't post anything... I posted in hopes of Sage wanting to make the stands.. i think that he could make some money on these and wanted to show him that there are buyers for this product. i'm glad you can read i'm not gloating...i don't gloat..
Well maybe if we get enough people to pre order he will make them.
If not oh well. No need to get testy.
well i haven't talked to him today but did anyone think of pm'ing him...
well let me make it clear, I talked to Sage after completing my stands on the phone and he said that he was going to quit making stands and that he had Doug pull them from the Fiero Warehouse site, he will continue to do everything else.. I made this post to show what he did for me and that there is a market for this idea so all positive comments are welcome and might get him to change his decession after reading them..
sorry for any misunderstanding on my orginal post..
Originally posted by FieroGTguy: That's not the situation here. KK already paid the price for the R&D for the one off. He let Sage at no cost or commission to take molds of it to make some extra $$$ from his work. So the development was already paid. The only cost is the labor making the molds, the materials, then pulling/finishing the products. Cost of materials and molds for the pre-rders here "should" put the investment under $50, leaving $100ish profit a set. It seems production won't be taking place due to the lack of motivation rather than profit.
Regardless, the manner at which this was posted is what's confusing people. It is one thing to post pictures of your new item (one off, or not) for discussion. But your point is either A) Too get orders to prove there is enough interest to make, and share the enjoyment of this cool mod with others... Or, B) Telling the open forum, "look what I have and look what you'll never have you cheap bastards" ::inserting words in your mouth::
Which is it? "A" or "B"? If "A", tell me where to send the $$$ when it is available. I am guessing "B" just because you're being more pissy than helpful.
Greg
well it's "A" and where do you get "pissy?" if it was B you'd know it and that ain't my style.
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05:50 PM
jscott1 Member
Posts: 21676 From: Houston, TX , USA Registered: Dec 2001
Well I PM'd Sage asking him to reconsider. This thread shows that there is interest in the wingstands. I don't understand why he wants to pull windstands in general. Is he ready for retirement or something?
Not the exact situation... But still the fact remains that Fiero owners want special made products for Fieros but generally complain about the price. The bad part about that is that most Fiero pieces are already cheaper than the same type of parts for their import counterparts...
Even without R&D figured in, people already complained about what Sage/FieroWarehouse wanted for a set of wingstands. Why would they bother producing more and putting up with more of that?
Not the exact situation... But still the fact remains that Fiero owners want special made products for Fieros but generally complain about the price. The bad part about that is that most Fiero pieces are already cheaper than the same type of parts for their import counterparts...
Even without R&D figured in, people already complained about what Sage/FieroWarehouse wanted for a set of wingstands. Why would they bother producing more and putting up with more of that?
but you won't see any new profile pics any time soon... sorry
