Wow, all I can say is there is alot of disinformation here. I have done both swaps. Both engines have there good points and bad points. I have a 97 N* with the 4t80e trans running a stock OBDI computer. The engine does not run in limp mode. This is the only V8 swap with a transmission that will hold up to the engine output. ( No matter what Archie says ). The power is incredible from 0 to 140 (engine still pulls hard but the ecm shuts it down because of the rev limiter). No you don't have to worry about a stock 3800 beating you off the line or anywhere else, it ain't going to happen. (Don't know where that rumor got started). True the N* with the 4t80e is heavier, but with a rear swaybar and beefier front bar it is a non factor. It is probably benificial as the added weight keeps the tires from going up in smoke. I think the N* with minor maintenance will provide superior reliability. I think you will be much Happier with the N* in the long run. The swap is more involved as there are not alot of people making bolt on parts to do the swap.This is the biggest downfall for the swap. There is alot of info out there for the swap and most of the people who have done the swap are willing to give advise. The 3800 will yield more gas milage, 30+ versus the N* at 25+. but if gas milage was your only concern you would probably be running an Iron Duke. As far as hp and torque are concerned the N* makes more torque and hp. The torque curve on the N* starts at about the same rpm as the 3800 goes longer and is higher. Same with the horsepower. If you have the complete front for a caddy you are well on your way to having yourself one fast and reliable car. If you have any questions on the swap feel free to contact me as I will be glad to answer any questions concerning my swap.
------------------ Signature courtesy of MinnGreen.
[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 08-16-2004).]
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08:42 AM
iced_theater Member
Posts: 1755 From: Green River, Wyoming, United States Registered: Jun 2003
Wow, all I can say is there is alot of disinformation here. I have done both swaps. Both engines have there good points and bad points. I have a 97 N* with the 4t80e trans running a stock OBDI computer. The engine does not run in limp mode.
a '97 engine uses OBD 2....Which engine do you have, the 275 horse or the 300 horse?
------------------ I'm from Wyoming, where the men are men and the sheep are scared.
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05:32 PM
rockcrawl Member
Posts: 2528 From: Lehigh Valley, PA Registered: Jul 2000
'97 4.6 Northstar with all accessories = 468 lbs. '99 3800 SC with all accessories = 445 lbs. 4T65Ehd with converter = 196 lbs. 4T80E with converter = 296 lbs. TH125c with converter = 151 lbs. Mucie with V6 flywheel and cutch = 119.5 lbs. Isuzu with V6 flywheel and clutch = 133 lbs. Getrag with V6 flywheel and clutch = 136.5 lbs.
These are not estimates, they are actual weights. I weighed them myself of the same scale. There may be very small errors due to fluid levels.
Jon
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06:24 PM
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
Thanks for that information Rockcrawl. I am still weighing up the pros and cons. As a weekend cruiser with plenty of power the Northstar is in favour at present. Plus I like the look of them installed. Still doing more research.
I have a built 3800 pushing around 315 wheel horses. I have to agree with the guy about the sound. At idle my cars sound bad ass but I had my buddy do high speed flyby of me and it sounded horrible. Just a loud blaaaaaaaaaaaah sound with a whine in the background. From the inside of the car all I can hear is the blower screaming because of my cold air intake sucking from the stock air box location in the bodywork. Never heard a northstar but I garantee at Idle built 3.8 sc sounds better. Again, i have never heard a built Northstar either. Those engines in the pictures look VERY expensive. Bang for buck the 3.8 is the best deal, and you don't have to shoe-horn it in there. If you are on a budget go with the 3.8sc.
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03:18 AM
jelly2m8 Member
Posts: 6281 From: Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Jul 2001
For the crappy sounding 3800 guys, get WCF's spintech muffler, I spent a month boring around in Rikkers 3800 Fiero and my neighbors kept asking me if that car was a ferrari or a lamborghini due to the sound of it at full song.
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04:22 AM
Rare87GT Member
Posts: 5087 From: Wichita, KS USA Registered: Oct 2001
Its all about preference. I love my 3800sc to death. But a Northstar V8 would be awesome too. I couldn't have both worlds and I didn't have the extra money or friends that knew much about the Northstar swap so I did the 3800sc. Would I do another 3800sc, sure would, would a Northstar V8 ever happen? I would love it to. Are they easily modded? Not really, but they can be with the right amount of money. Its all about choice. And SOULCRUSHER is right, its easier to work on the 3800 by far over the Northstar. Its all about money and what you want from either swap, both have advantages and disadvantages.
-Amir
btw, I did beat a Northstar/auto swap at Wheatstock. He went 14.1, I went 13.7 at the track. I am all stock except for a 3.4" pulley. I thought they went faster than that, but maybe it was a bad run, but I still beat him
------------------ 1 of 2: Factory Maroon/Gray 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft) 2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 97 GTP Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 13.704@98mph, 1.938 60ft)
a '97 engine uses OBD 2....Which engine do you have, the 275 horse or the 300 horse?
I am well aware of the 97 N* using an OBDII ECM. I am running an OBDI ecm. It doesn't matter which HP engine you use you just need the chip for that HP. As for being able to build more HP the 3800 is cheaper to do this at this time . The N* has more potential at this time but it is expensive. But if I read Aus's original comments right he stated that he wanted a stock engine that would pass emissions and noise laws. So in stock form the N* is going to produce more HP and still meet these requirements. As for the 3800 beating the N* I am sure you did but your engine is not stock.
[This message has been edited by Fiero STS (edited 08-17-2004).]
I am well aware of the 97 N* using an OBDII ECM. I am running an OBDI ecm. It doesn't matter which HP engine you use you just need the chip for that HP. As for being able to build more HP the 3800 is cheaper to do this at this time . The N* has more potential at this time but it is expensive. But if I read Aus's original comments right he stated that he wanted a stock engine that would pass emissions and noise laws. So in stock form the N* is going to produce more HP and still meet these requirements. As for the 3800 beating the N* I am sure you did but your engine is not stock.
thats what is throwing me right now - the potential future plans to build it up.. but honestly a stock 300hp northstar may be all i ever want
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08:09 AM
PFF
System Bot
Voided Member
Posts: 178 From: Bucyrus, Ohio 44820 Registered: Jan 2003
There is no question that a well installed N* engine and drive train will give far better reliability than any other motor installed on the Fiero factory transaxle. It will be stronger and oil leak free.
I have a 3.4LDOHC V6 mounted to a 1987 Fiero 5 speed transaxle. I cannot fully enjoy the power that my 3.4LDOHC can produce as I am always afraid that something in the driveline will break. I wish I had the time to remove the 3.4L to sell and get an N*.
if you decide that you got the time to haul that cradle with the engine and transmission, and all the lovely wires, perfectly converted to plug into Another fiero, and I have a decent amount of money, expect a truck in your driveway to Get it!
that's My take on 6 vs 8.
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08:34 AM
Philphine Member
Posts: 6136 From: louisville,ky. usa Registered: Feb 2000
4T65Ehd with converter = 196 lbs. 4T80E with converter = 296 lbs.
Jon
considering the fiero's a lot lighter, and assuming you don't feel the need to try and race every car that pulls up beside you, do you think the 465 could be subed for the 480 as a weight savings consideration without worrying about reliability?
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09:15 AM
Fiero STS Member
Posts: 2045 From: Wyoming, MN. usa Registered: Nov 2001
If you just want to cruise around, and not pound on it, you could use a turbo 125 and save lots of weight. The 4t65e should also work behind a N* just need to get the correct final drive ratio. the final drive should be somewhere around 3.70 to 4.50 milage wiil drop but the performance gain will be well worth it. I wish I could find some 4.10 gears for the 4t80e. 3.70 is the best I can do at this time. (I rounded the gear ratio numbers for simplicity)
quote
Originally posted by Philphine:
considering the fiero's a lot lighter, and assuming you don't feel the need to try and race every car that pulls up beside you, do you think the 465 could be subed for the 480 as a weight savings consideration without worrying about reliability?
I. It doesn't matter which HP engine you use you just need the chip for that HP. As for the 3800 beating the N* I am sure you did but your engine is not stock.
It's not a chip that makes the difference , it's the cams...
a '97 engine uses OBD 2....Which engine do you have, the 275 horse or the 300 horse?
