"So let me get this straight, the 88 coupes have inferior bushings too !/???
arrrgggg...
So wheres the best place to get new bushings?"
You better look again in the P22 Parts Book.
Same rubber bushing for the coupe, formula and gt.
It has been known that the coupes depending on application received harder springs like the "D" code vs the normal stock "C" code springs for the GT & Formula but that is rare. Majority of the coupes received the softer spring rates. It would be insteresting to confirm the rubber hardness (rubber dynameter) between the coupe, formula and gt.
As far as bushing for the '88 the rubber oem bushing are getting a lot harder to find so upgrade to poly is the only reasonably solution.
ALL of the suspension parts were purchased from ( Summit Racing ):
’88 Parts List:
Poly bushings:
Control Arm Poly Bushing Set PTP-7-207 $39.95
Trailing Arm Poly Bushing Set PTP-7-305 $41.69
Outer Tie Rod Ends MOG-ES3238RL $31.99
be sure to get greasable front 23mm sway bar bushing also from Summit for the coupe.

In my 425hp sbc powered 86SE I have the Held anti-bump steer kit along with poly at all points including cradel bushings, KYB shocks/struts, Eibach springs all around, FS sway bars front and rear (with poly bushings), and 225 - 50 - 15 Cooper Cobra tires. Wile it's an amazing car to toss around corners, and WAY better than stock early suspension, it still isn't much better in actual control than my stock 88 suspension and the stock 88 is of course a much softer ride.
....... The soft stock 88 is still a wusy girl car however, and nowhere near as much fun

Getting rid of the bump steer of the early cars is only appreciated by those who have owned an early car and added an anti bump steer kit....... or driven an 88

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 06-24-2004).]

So what are the best springs (stock) for an 88?
cause FOSG lists this:
REAR SPRINGS:
(EXC WS6) CODE (W/WS6) CODE
-------------------------------
1984 10029092 NWY (Stiffest)
10029091 NWX |
10029090 NWW (Softest)

1985-88 10030180 NXD 10034976 NYM (Stiffest)
10029092 NWY 10034975 NYL |
10029091 NWX 10034974 NYK |
10029090 NWW 10034973 NYJ (Softest)

FRONT SPRINGS:
(EXC WS6) CODE (W/WS6) CODE
-------------------------------
1984 10029670 DMF 10029675 DMN (Stiffest)
10029669 DMD 10029674 DMM |
10029668 DMC 10029673 DMK |
10029667 DMB 10029672 DMJ |
10029666 DMA 10029671 DMH (Softest)

1985-88 10034097 FJA 10034102 FJH (Stiffest)
10034096 FHZ 10034101 FJF |
10034095 FHY 10034100 FJD |
10034094 FHX 10034099 FJC |
10034093 FHW 10034098 FJB (Softest)

The codes can be found on a paper tag on the spring or on the Service Parts Identification Label on the left front inner fender. The spring codes for my 85 GT from the label are; 6JH, 7JH, 8YM and 9YM (JH = FJH, YM = NYM)

6 code = left front spring code
7 code = right front spring code
8 code = left rear spring code
9 code = right rear spring code

From: Scott Backer

Here is another bit of information for your collection.

1988 Formula WS6 (sequence number 222054)

Information from tags on springs
Front 10068654 ARD
Rear 10053694 PUC
Information on parts sticker
6RD 7RD 8UC 9UC

Which makes sense, until the last part, where he lists RD and UC, which dont appear on the above chart!!
Im looking to buy a set of 88 springs to replace the ones in the coupe Im getting, as im assuming that they will have weaker springs than a formula, or GT(I havent accualy got it yet). One of the people im talking to told me he has a set, and they were RD and UC. I have no idea where those sit on the chart. Please enlighten me

985-88 10034097 FJA 10034102 FJH (Stiffest)
10034096 FHZ 10034101 FJF |
10034095 FHY 10034100 FJD |
10034094 FHX 10034099 FJC |
10034093 FHW 10034098 FJB (Softest)

H (Stiffest)
F
D
C
B (Softest)

forget the #s and other letters only the last letter matters
R may denote front in RD so D are middle rated
and U for rears in UC and C in second from the softest

BTW most 88s are D and C , F and H are rare as are B

------------------
Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Any other recommended 84-87 suspension mods? (You folks with the 88's who want to make them even better are making us turn green.)

I think another angle to be reckoned with here on the 84-88 is that we can improve the handling close to the 88 but the overall ride will suffer somewhat. Is this true? (Well, I guess the only sure-fire handling AND ride improvement is swapping in the 88 cradle ... )

I would like to see what an 88 feels like. My 86GT has been lowered, KYB shocks and struts, and I have some really sticky tires and I think it handles great. What are the skidpad numbers for the 88? I think for the earlier GTs were around .83 or .84 but I dont know for sure. And I remeber seeing a thread about people wondering what kind of skidpad improvements are made with different tires, shocks, springs, ect. Does anyone have any numbers?

quote Originally posted by anthony_86gt: I would like to see what an 88 feels like. My 86GT has been lowered, KYB shocks and struts, and I have some really sticky tires and I think it handles great. What are the skidpad numbers for the 88? I think for the earlier GTs were around .83 or .84 but I dont know for sure. And I remeber seeing a thread about people wondering what kind of skidpad improvements are made with different tires, shocks, springs, ect. Does anyone have any numbers?

If I remember correctly the 88's had a skidpad rating of .88, or .89

quote Originally posted by anthony_86gt: I would like to see what an 88 feels like. My 86GT has been lowered, KYB shocks and struts, and I have some really sticky tires and I think it handles great. What are the skidpad numbers for the 88? I think for the earlier GTs were around .83 or .84 but I dont know for sure. And I remeber seeing a thread about people wondering what kind of skidpad improvements are made with different tires, shocks, springs, ect. Does anyone have any numbers?

My opinion only: Skid pad numbers are only a small part of the equation because in the real world roads aren't dead flat and corners aren't taken at a constant turn angle.
The part I find disconcerting about the early stock suspension is that when you "set" the car into a corner at speed the irregularities throughout the turn constantly upset the suspension angles to such a degree that major corrections are needed just to stay on your line. With bumpsteer correction (or 88 suspension) you can throw it into the corner hard and it tracks like it's on rails. Predictability is a very good thing !!

Russ

so... wait, what does the WS6 code actualy mean? just harder springs? does it change anything else?

And, for better handling, I want harder springs right? does a D make that much of a diffrence over a C ??

[This message has been edited by 86GT3.4DOHC (edited 06-26-2004).]

Thanks for the info and suggestions everyone. It looks like this thread has pretty much run its course. Of the "not too expensive variety," there's Plan A, the 88 rear swap (if you can find one), or Plan B, the studied improvements to the 84-87 suspension (bump-steer kit, Darrell Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Urethane bushings, remove the steering stabilizer, add the sway bar.)

John

quote Originally posted by jelly2m8: Most people who buy an 88 stay with an 88, and drive only 88's, there's a reason for that. Yes it is just that much better.

Just bought my 3rd 88, and hacked up my 84.

--Will

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:

So what are the best springs (stock) for an 88?
cause FOSG lists this: (QUOTE)

That info is incorrect/ incomplete. It should be 85-87 (not 85-88)

From the 22P:
1988 Front
10048402 FPJ STIFFEST
10048401 FPH !
10068654 ARD !
10068653 ARC !
10068652 ARB SOFTEST

1988 Rear
10053695 PUD STIFF
10053694 PUC !
10053693 PUB !
10053692 PUA SOFT

My Coupe is C all around and my Formula is D front and C rear.

------------------
Notchbacks RULE

"It's cool to have a car you just have to look bck at."

[This message has been edited by Fierobruiser (edited 07-29-2004).]

i say they both handle well, and a capable driver can do alot with a car that an incaplable driver cannot. i think one of the big things about the 88 suspension is that it installs more confidence in you as you go around the corner (feels right) and that becasue the ride is better, you use that confidence to go faster through the corner. both setups handle well, but you have to have confidence in your car to let it handle well.

87 GT 5-speed
fast but not fast enough

I know one thing that I love about an 88 over an 87 with owning both is the amount of bouncing. It seems lowering an 87 makes it bounce all over the road and an 88 seems to take the bumps better being lower and the feel is just totally different its quite amazing. I can actually feel like it is tracking everything. In the 87 when bumps are apparent it is all over the road, I mean my 88 tracks pretty good but it has full coilovers and poly and tubular control arms to go with it. But hands down an 88 lowered to the extreme like mine with every suspension mod possible just kicks the rear out of a modified 87 with springs, struts, and rear sway bar as far as ride quality goes and that's something to say I think as well as owning it in the handling department too!

-Amir

------------------

1 of 2: Factory Maroon/Gray 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft)
2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 97 GTP Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 13.704@98mph, 1.938 60ft)

My Website
My CarDomain Site

[This message has been edited by Rare87GT (edited 07-29-2004).]

i am very satisfied with the handling on my 88GT, although i have never driven a pre-88 fiero to compare since my last fiero was also an 88.....

------------------
I own an original yellow 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT, (wingless, currently purple) and very proud....Truly is.....Driving Exitement!

Matching numbers GT
#17889 of 26,402 made in 1988

During the spring of 2002 I had one of each.

88gt 2,000 original miles "and original tires"
87gt 11,000 original miles "and brand new tires"

Both cars bone stock. The 87gt with the new tires was actually better all around than the 88 with the somewhat hard original tires.

Fast forward to 2004 I have another 88gt with 13,000 miles and just replaced the tires. It is by far
better than the 87gt.

INHO the 88's are slightly better but a pre-88 with good suspension and new tires comes darn close.

I have a 87 GT and am now quite happy with the suspension setup (see https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/043797.html)

However, the modifications are many:

Suspension:
- Eibach springs front and rear
- Koni adjustable shocks front and rear
- Fiero Store heavy-duty rear swaybar w/ PU links
- Stock front swaybar with PU links (also FS)
- New steering stabilizer
- PU cradle mounts, dog bone, rear control arm bushings
- Strut tower brace (FS)
- New rubber engine mounts and front control arm bushings
- New front upper control arm bolts
- New tie rods and tie rods ends front and rear
- New front and rear ball joints

Brakes:
- Carbometallic brake pads
- Slotted and drilled rotors (not installed yet)

That's a few thousand USD right there but the car feels good now. Complaints I have is that teh ride is very stiff and roar imperfections are VERY noticable. But then I can always switch to my Mazda if I'm sick of that :-)

------------------

www.yellowfiero.com
17" DEZENT T wheels with 215/40 tires front and 235/45 rear, KONI shocks, EIBACH lowering springs, PU dog bone, bushings and engine mounts, K&N air and oil filters, OZELOT exhaust, Mercedes SLK yellow, Mr. Mikes seats, door skins, shift and e-brake boots. MP3 player and custom subwoofer behind passenger seat, F355 style front. Fiero Store rear swaybar, strut tower brace, black carpet. Rodney Dickman's competition short shifter.

Yellowstone, if you've got any money left burning a hole in your pocket, maybe you should do the bump steer kit as well

[This message has been edited by Notorio (edited 07-29-2004).]

quote Originally posted by justa6: i say they both handle well, and a capable driver can do alot with a car that an incaplable driver cannot. i think one of the big things about the 88 suspension is that it installs more confidence in you as you go around the corner (feels right) and that becasue the ride is better, you use that confidence to go faster through the corner. both setups handle well, but you have to have confidence in your car to let it handle well. 87 GT 5-speed fast but not fast enough

having driven 3 pre 88's and 2 88's i would say that the 88's stock for stock perform better but the more mods you add to both the more equal they become in performance

however the 88's offer a smoother more comfortable ride and as you said make the driver feel better when pushing the car..

personally i like em all - would drive any of em and love every minute of it

i have also discovered that the pre-88's front suspension feels best with poly bushings up top and rubber on bottom with poly sway bar bushings

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 07-29-2004).]

I have both an 87 GT and an 88 GT. The 87 is all stock 5 speed with new bushings and new GM replacement suspension components. (101K miles). My 88 GT has a 440t and 3.4L new bushings and OEM replacement suspension components. Since I do mostly highway cruising, what I found was the 88 was more comfortable driving. I take long trips with cruise control and found that after 12 hours of driving, I felt ok in the 88, but after about 10 hours in the 87, I was beat.

The 87 with the manual transmission was more fun to drive, but that was because it was a manual. I ran on the Gateway International Speedway in 98 and the car handled very nicely through the road course. The conclusion for me was the 88 is a better driving car, but any Fiero is better than most cars out there.