Not a bad setup bro, but I have always been the kind to stand behind making the power without the boost! Making the 460hp out of the 3.8L S/C with no turbo, no nitro, no alcohol, etc., or any motor for that reason, would be EXTREMELY impressive, yet the 425hp out of the fiero is impressive! If you DIDN'T run the nitro, and everything else besides the turbo, what do you think you would be running!?
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02:23 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Id probably make 200 hp just like a L36. It would be nearly impossible to make a 3.8L engine make 425 hp. It would have to have 100% volumetric effeciency, and run 10,000 rpm. Plus it would have crap for torque. I say run what you brung and hope you brung enough. I brung enough. Peace!
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03:26 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted by FordsNeverDie: If you DIDN'T run the nitro, and everything else besides the turbo, what do you think you would be running!?
Ok, maybe i didnt understand your question in my last post. So are you saying, no nitrous (not nitro, nitro is nitromethane, thats what top fuel dragsters run), I only ran a 50 shot, and it only added 30 hp, and no turbo, or just engine and turbo nothing else? If i couldnt run alcohol I could probably only run 13-14 psi of boost, which would of put me at maybe 360 wheel hp. but i will always run alcohol cause its cheap, it works great, and i can make some sick ass power with it. okbye.
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03:32 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Id probably make 200 hp just like a L36. It would be nearly impossible to make a 3.8L engine make 425 hp. It would have to have 100% volumetric effeciency, and run 10,000 rpm. Plus it would have crap for torque. I say run what you brung and hope you brung enough. I brung enough. Peace!
Your saying you would be pulling 200hp WITH the turbo, on the L36? You should be pulling more than that I would think, but you could be right!
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11:17 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Your saying you would be pulling 200hp WITH the turbo, on the L36? You should be pulling more than that I would think, but you could be right!
no, a stock L36 makes 200 hp. I misread what you asked. Theres no way to gauge what it would of made if... because there are too many variables involved. It made what it made. Thats it.
Congrats on the numbers. Those are really impressive. How are you doing engine management? Are you using the same code as the S/C setup? Where is your MAF sensor?
no, its not the same tune as the SC setup. Darth took care of everything, I have no idea what all he put in there for it to run right. My maf is about 4" before my throttle body. Blow thru LS1. Peace!
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03:08 PM
PFF
System Bot
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
Nice but what are you using at the lower RPM's? It looks like you don't make any power till 3500 - 3750 or so RPM. Is that what you're using the 50 shot for - off the line till that turbo spools?
But I'll tell ya - once that turbo spools - hold the hell on!
Rob D.
------------------ The Dirty Rat Chopped, dropped and just plain NASTY! Choptop Targa #1 383 Stroker MPFI with N2O 1" Drop 3" Chop 11" Brakes 19" Motegi Roja's wrapped in BFGoodrich Gforce T/A KDW-2 rubber RCC Coilover Suspension Updated Jan 21 '04 www.dirtyratracing.org
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07:41 PM
R Runner Member
Posts: 3701 From: Scottsville, KY Registered: Feb 2003
Paul, I do have a "cage", pontiac put it there 17 years ago. Me and Darth were talking about roll cages last night. Has anyone ever tested a roll cage in a crash test, versus a space frame? The space frames in our car are designed to crumple and such, so the driver doesnt take a huge impact. People add cages and such to their cars making them very rigid and during an impact the crumple zones are rendered useless. Now all the impact goes straight to the driver. Dont worry bout me, my car is only going 12.20's at wheatstock
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08:06 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Nice but what are you using at the lower RPM's? It looks like you don't make any power till 3500 - 3750 or so RPM. Is that what you're using the 50 shot for - off the line till that turbo spools?
But I'll tell ya - once that turbo spools - hold the hell on!
Rob D.
I can power brake it up to 3k or so, and it spools pretty quick really. I have a 50 shot to help it spool, but even with the old turbo that was a turd, I still pulled a 1.98 60'. Im gonna do some testing at wheatstock, get a few things figured out here. Should be interesting.
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08:08 PM
R Runner Member
Posts: 3701 From: Scottsville, KY Registered: Feb 2003
oops... I did not know... Hope you didn't think I was trying to pour salt in a wound. Sorry.
Sounds like somehow they are staying abreast (love that word) of what is rolling in your engine bay. Not sure about the port and manifold design, huh? Guess results don't lie. See you this weekend!
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01:08 PM
mrfixit58 Member
Posts: 3330 From: Seffner, Fl, USA Registered: Jul 99
yeah, im back on clubgp as superL67. I stayed layed low at first, but now everyone knows its me. Ive been playing good so I havent gotten booted again yet. Theyre pretty impressed with the numbers. So many naysayers over there, now I get the last laugh. I get crap for everything, then when I back up everything with stuff like this, it really shuts them down.
As for my gas mileage, not sure yet. Havent really tested it since I started driving good. At first I was having to run it WOT to get my tranny shifting problem figured out. I ran the crap out of it for about 80 miles. Ended up getting 13.6 mpg. I think it should still pull mid 20's driving granny smith style. But when you hit that gas, those 60# fuel injectors really dump it in.
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03:53 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
welp my car is safe now. I got it aligned today and it feels a ton more stable. I watched the guy at the alignment shop the whole time. Took him an hour and a half to do both front and back. He had the right front wheel on and off about 7 times. I dont think anyone believed me about how much power this car has. But oh well. see yall in 48 hours!
I think another feature that needs to be added to the 1/4 mile list is how many times the car has run down the strip and how many miles have been driven on the motor. Not to knock anyone, and certainly not to knock X, but I am kinda sick of reading about all of these one-time wonders that probably never get driven or only go down the strip about 2 times a year that are sitting at the top of the list.
I just think it is funny that the 2 fastest Fieros on the 1/4 mile list have to use N20 to get them there, even with a 383 SBC V8. Funny thing is I have been watching on the F-body boards and coming to find out some of the fastest LT1's are destroked to either 327 or 302 cubes with NO POWER ADDER and are running 11's in a 3500 lb car! Couple this with the fact that I have been seeing quite a few 383 buildups on TV and in magazine articles lately that are only putting down 400hp and 450tq at the crank, and that is with expensive heads and internals. Pretty bad considering my 350 with crap trick flow heads put down 380hp and 440tq at the crank using the relatively small LT4 HOT-CAM. I think strokers are over-rated.
Sorry to steal the thread just wanted to point a few things out I have noticed. Good luck X, you are definately pioneering the performance of the 3800 in a Fiero for the Fiero community.
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02:33 AM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
Sorry to steal the thread just wanted to point a few things out I have noticed. Good luck X, you are definately pioneering the performance of the 3800 in a Fiero for the Fiero community.
Thanks man, I couldnt of done it without your programming expertise. For anyone doing the type of stuff I do, talk to this man. You can engineer stuff all day, throw turbos, nitrous, V6, V8 doesnt matter, superchargers, port work, whatever, but when the computer doesnt like whats happening, it aint worth crap. Darth will fix you up. Peace!
[This message has been edited by fieroX (edited 06-23-2004).]
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03:27 AM
PFF
System Bot
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13620 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by fieroX: Thanks buddy, I couldnt of done it without your programming expertise. For anyone doing the type of stuff I do, talk to this man. You can engineer stuff all day, throw turbos, nitrous, V6, V8 doesnt matter, superchargers, port work, whatever, but when the computer doesnt like whats happening, it aint worth crap. Darth will fix you up. Peace!
two things...
1st, I'm Buddy. 2nd, let's just all go back to carbs and points
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03:58 AM
WikedV6 Member
Posts: 271 From: Elburn, IL USA Registered: Jul 2002
Congrats man, those are some very impressive numbers, I can't wait to see you break into the 500+hp/500+trq range. Just look out when he gets his IC setup.
Prasad
------------------ "Turbo Cars are like hot women. A little edgy, every guy wants one, some guys can't handle them, and if you throw a little alchohol in the mix they'll rock your world" 1986 GT (waiting for Buick GN setup trasplant) 1984SE 5 Speed W/SBC V8 1987 Buick GN(10.70@124MPH) 1987 Trans Am SBC 355cid Twin Turbo(no track times yet) 1992 GMC Typhoon(13.20@ 99mph) Other cars; JaguarXJ6 & Mercedes AMG 500SEC
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09:41 AM
rynelson85 Member
Posts: 2178 From: Wichita, KS Registered: Aug 2002
I just think it is funny that the 2 fastest Fieros on the 1/4 mile list have to use N20 to get them there, even with a 383 SBC V8. Funny thing is I have been watching on the F-body boards and coming to find out some of the fastest LT1's are destroked to either 327 or 302 cubes with NO POWER ADDER and are running 11's in a 3500 lb car! Couple this with the fact that I have been seeing quite a few 383 buildups on TV and in magazine articles lately that are only putting down 400hp and 450tq at the crank, and that is with expensive heads and internals. Pretty bad considering my 350 with crap trick flow heads put down 380hp and 440tq at the crank using the relatively small LT4 HOT-CAM. I think strokers are over-rated.
I agree that the stroker smallblock motors are quite literally overkill for the Fiero (although it's definitely cool to be able to say that you've got a 383 in there). They produce so much torque that it's nearly impossible to launch it "clean" and if you do hook up you're quite nearly likely to break something. With my SBC project, I'd love to destroke it and set it up for a higher revving powerband (unfortunately I'm not an engine builder and hardly know where to start - but I'm looking into it). The turbo has got to be one of the best setups for great track times - with a good driver, they can get a somewhat less-brutal torque on the initial launch to keep the tires planted, but then get the power from the spooled turbo almost instantly thereafter.
Great setup FieroX - looking forward to seeing you again this weekend... and maybe going for a ride
Not a bad setup bro, but I have always been the kind to stand behind making the power without the boost! Making the 460hp out of the 3.8L S/C with no turbo, no nitro, no alcohol, etc., or any motor for that reason, would be EXTREMELY impressive, yet the 425hp out of the fiero is impressive! If you DIDN'T run the nitro, and everything else besides the turbo, what do you think you would be running!?
3.8L s/c... as in supercharged s/c... you know the kind that force air into the moter type of s/c... as in BOOSTED?
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11:21 AM
rgunn1 Member
Posts: 11 From: Baton Rouge La Registered: Jun 2004
Originally posted by Darth Fiero: I just think it is funny that the 2 fastest Fieros on the 1/4 mile list have to use N20 to get them there, even with a 383 SBC V8. Funny thing is I have been watching on the F-body boards and coming to find out some of the fastest LT1's are destroked to either 327 or 302 cubes with NO POWER ADDER and are running 11's in a 3500 lb car! Couple this with the fact that I have been seeing quite a few 383 buildups on TV and in magazine articles lately that are only putting down 400hp and 450tq at the crank, and that is with expensive heads and internals. Pretty bad considering my 350 with crap trick flow heads put down 380hp and 440tq at the crank using the relatively small LT4 HOT-CAM. I think strokers are over-rated.
Destroked engines with long rods are OUTSTANDINGLY awesome powerplants. 4.155 bore x 3.25 stroke x 6.209 rod SBC can run 11:1 compression on 87 octane. I want to build 4.155 x 3.250 x 6.250 engine... should be able to run 12.5:1 on 93 octane. The long rod and high mechanical efficiency give them outstanding detonation resistance and awesomely broad torque curves... Could go even shorter stroke to 3.000 and run 6.375 rods... bore it just a little more and have the 327 the way it should have been...
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Low, Sleek, Fast, and Loud '90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: None of the Above
Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 06-23-2004).]
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01:58 PM
Jun 24th, 2004
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5922 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
I agree that the stroker smallblock motors are quite literally overkill for the Fiero (although it's definitely cool to be able to say that you've got a 383 in there). They produce so much torque that it's nearly impossible to launch it "clean" and if you do hook up you're quite nearly likely to break something. With my SBC project, I'd love to destroke it and set it up for a higher revving powerband (unfortunately I'm not an engine builder and hardly know where to start - but I'm looking into it). The turbo has got to be one of the best setups for great track times - with a good driver, they can get a somewhat less-brutal torque on the initial launch to keep the tires planted, but then get the power from the spooled turbo almost instantly thereafter.
Great setup FieroX - looking forward to seeing you again this weekend... and maybe going for a ride
If you are thinking turbo then in my opinion you will want to destroke because the right turbo will be allowing your engine to make a lot of torque. For an SBC, I would recommend a 327 (4" bore, 3.25" stroke) or 302 (4" bore, 3" stroke) for a turbo setup. As Will suggested the longer rods will allow for more dwell time at TDC and less side loading of the piston skirts which will make it easier on the block and help curve detonation. There are many companies making destroker cranks for large journal and late model blocks so finding one should not be hard. In fact the baby LT1 (L99) 4.3L V8 that was found in the Impala's and Caprices of the mid-90's has a 1-piece rear main seal crank that only has a 3" stroke. Put this baby in a late model LT1 or SBC 350 block and you have the makings of a 302 screamer that will be boost friendly. Don't forget to beef up the bottom end with splayed 4-bolt billet mains and good rods. If it can be helped try to stick to a standard bore block because you are going to need all the cylinder wall material you can get if you are going to be running boost.
