Songman, you make some valid points. It does appear that not everyone at WCF is rude and impolite, but those that are do cast a bad light on everybody else.
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01:43 PM
Rickady88GT Member
Posts: 10648 From: Central CA Registered: Dec 2002
I wanted page three Songman and Stimpy are both cool dudes and I have not had any problems with WCF. But on the subject of mud slinging I side with Stimpy. Ford or Goober who ever you are, are only making WCF look bad. You did not even get the facts right and you dont even have a Fiero? Who are you to talk all that smack? Are you the "Rude Guy" that people say works at WCF and answers the phone with the wrong info and bad attitude? I did try to stay out if this one but its not helping WCF when you just talk trash? Getting people mad is good for making money in the music industry not the Fiero after market.
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03:34 PM
PURPLE REIGN Member
Posts: 4080 From: Minnesnowta ------------------ Land of White Gold Registered: Sep 2002
I wanted page three Songman and Stimpy are both cool dudes and I have not had any problems with WCF. But on the subject of mud slinging I side with Stimpy. Ford or Goober who ever you are, are only making WCF look bad. You did not even get the facts right and you dont even have a Fiero? Who are you to talk all that smack? Are you the "Rude Guy" that people say works at WCF and answers the phone with the wrong info and bad attitude? I did try to stay out if this one but its not helping WCF when you just talk trash? Getting people mad is good for making money in the music industry not the Fiero after market.
eliquent
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04:12 PM
WKDFIRO Member
Posts: 1637 From: Cerritos, California, USA Registered: Nov 1999
I'll weigh in with this as soon as I get a chance, but currently I do have customers to attend to and shipments to get out.
It sounds like part of this is my fault for being too busy and not counting wires carefully enough to see 5 and not 6 wires.
This is the harness I gave to Chris during his conversation and perhaps it was me that said there was six instead of five if you count it trying to do eight other things too.
More later.
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04:36 PM
FordsNeverDie Member
Posts: 952 From: Puyallup, WA Registered: May 2003
I'm not one to get into WCF conflicts (as I've never worked with them, nor do I forsee doing so in the near future). Hmmm... I may be missing something - but these posts contain conflicting info, don't they?
So... are you working with/for WCF or not?
As for Dale - I'm pretty sure you wouldn't qualify as an e-thug... your response is very well thought out and specific (and does not include any name-calling or anything)
As I think I said in an earlier post ( don't have time to link it )... As for mechanics, no I don't work for them... I *help* them out with their internet stuff, and computers and such... I don't *work* for them, no... Anyone that knows WCF or Chris or Anthony or anyone around there will tell you that...
As I think I said in an earlier post ( don't have time to link it )... As for mechanics, no I don't work for them... I *help* them out with their internet stuff, and computers and such... I don't *work* for them, no... Anyone that knows WCF or Chris or Anthony or anyone around there will tell you that...
--- Goobher!
LOL - OK, so you don't work with them at the shop, but you're contracted by the shop to work for them... makes sense to me
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04:48 PM
Boomtastic Member
Posts: 2359 From: Athens, Alabama Registered: May 2000
I've had a couple of PMs with stimpy and I think I need to clarify a few things that I said before so as not to be misunderstood. As I told stimpy, I don't agree with anyone name calling and thing that when someone does that they have lost any intelligent input into the conversation. I am not siding with anyone, nor am I against anyone. I am against bandwagon jumping threads. WCF obviously makes lots of people happy, and obviously has a few problems. It just seems that anytime there is a problem it is amplified by everyone who doesn't like them turning it into a big ole hate thread.
Now to answer a few things that I know about WCF...
1) WCF is not a hobby. It is a business. But it is not the only business Chris has in that location. His main business is boats, then Fieros, then custom motorcycles. Of the three I'd say he makes the least on Fieros. Don't count on hearing the phone answer West Coast Fiero unless someone wants to jump up there and pay for more phone lines for them. Maybe he should have a generic name for all three business but it is a little late for that since each is already established and known.
2) As already stated, Anthony is there working on the customer service end of WCF. This should end up making a huge difference, but everyone has to quit slamming them long enough for changes to take effect.
From what I am constantly reading there are a few people out there who will not be happy until WCF is out of business. Then where are you going to get the custom parts that they make? And what vendor will be the next to be forced out of business? Somebody needs to wake up and realize we are lucky that anyone bothers with these cars. Just try to put a product out there to help maintain or update our little cars. Spend your money on develpment and production... Watch everyone talk about how they want the first one... Then listen to the silence when you start taking orders... That is until people start talking about how overpriced you are... And then someone makes a copy of yours and sells it cheaper because they didn't have to develop anything... I think we better be glad there are people out there willing to do it...
From what I am constantly reading there are a few people out there who will not be happy until WCF is out of business. Then where are you going to get the custom parts that they make? And what vendor will be the next to be forced out of business? Somebody needs to wake up and realize we are lucky that anyone bothers with these cars. Just try to put a product out there to help maintain or update our little cars. Spend your money on develpment and production... Watch everyone talk about how they want the first one... Then listen to the silence when you start taking orders... That is until people start talking about how overpriced you are... And then someone makes a copy of yours and sells it cheaper because they didn't have to develop anything... I think we better be glad there are people out there willing to do it...
I'm done here.. Thanks for listening...
Amen to that
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09:18 PM
PFF
System Bot
WKDFIRO Member
Posts: 1637 From: Cerritos, California, USA Registered: Nov 1999
Isn't it funny how it's "we" know better, as in the whole shop was around listening to this conversation that one person had with him on the phone? He's not even denying the fact that he bad mouths us to others, nor is he offering any help to ca's problem.
Totally off topic now.... Just outta curiosity, Chris West, what made you change your screen name?
(Chris has always been Fast Red. I have always been WKDFIRO, Eric used to be West Coast Fiero, just outta curiousity, what are you talking about CF?)
Back when I was working with Keith Huff at Fiero Motorsports, he would get phone calls from people who would want to get his help on certain problems. Often, he would have to stop working on the car that was in the shop to answer the question. This didn't last long as he realized that people who are calling him for information are not paying for it. If Keith's hourly rate was X amount of dollars that was an hour he just gave up for free. Keith sometimes wouldn't be the nicest person to someone on the phone when he had a lot of things to do and no time to give out free advice so he rarely did it for anyone who wasn't a member of FOCOA (back then.)
Its times like this that I see Keith's point.
"We" in this case, is not the whole shop (I'm not that big) but is me who was sitting next to him franticly printing/filling out shipping labels. Chris took the phone call becasue I had already spent 45 minutes helping someone with a smog problem and was frustrated with the phone ringing all day and getting little work done. I overheard the problem and knew I had just been looking at V6 harness so I ran out and told him how many wires were going into the plug before I handed him the part of the harness that he was talking to Extreme about. I finished up my labels and were getting shipments ready and I never heard Chris saying anything hes being accused of. I don't recall the conversation being anything out of the ordinary. Yeah, there was something going on about the number of wires they had, but the tone never got out of hand or sounded hostile. He was trying to help Extreme with how to ground out the computer to time it in hopes to take care of a problem he was having with the engine.
When I first read (actually I skimmed it lightly) this thread this morning I thought this was all about the wrong information I gave out and felt really bad about it during the day. I F'd up and gave the wrong information to Chris who passed it on to someone else. As I read the whole sordid, soggy, slashing, slinging thread I realized that this wasn't the case.
If I wasn't a part of WCF or this happened to, say, a Mustang owner calling Roush, I would have said, hey, free advice and worth every penny. But thats why we do stop and answer questions, not only because we've been there too with no one to call but because its just good customer relations. Kameo Kid might not agree whole heartedly since its his car that the work stops on more often than not.
I don't think its any secret that there are A-Holes on this forum. Some of them know thats how I think of them and some of the more colorful A-holes I haven't gotten around to telling them. Thats just how I feel personally about them. In this case its not business it really is more personal. More often than not, its me who is ranting that there are a bunch of A-holes on the forum because of what they say and the immaturity in the way they choose to express themselves rather than have an intelligent dialogue. I don't lose track of the fact that one finds them no matter where one goes so its just a part of the landscape and something that has to be dealt with. I would be a lier if I said I thought everyone on the forum is super nice. They aren't. Some of them are e-thugs and trolls. All forums have them.
Fierobear was trying to be polite but I'll come out and say it, Stimpy. The "gang mentality" of "WCF e-thugs" are not limited to just those who try in their own way defend WCF. Bear has seen Archie's pack in action as well as others who simply wander the threads looking for a fight. What I believe hes saying is that there are others reigning across the forum with little to contribute.
The big difference is that I am, as of now, asking them to back off of this thread so we can move on because it really doesn't help anyone to see it. If Stimpy wants to relive history every chance he gets and if Goober wants to further accuse him of eating at McDonalds (they do have good cookies...) than take it outside, you'll see each other eventually.
Sleeper. Just keep sleeping please. We don't need the hoods and I'm content in being the one of two (thanks spddy) Nazis here. Perhaps I can work my way up to WCF Facist or even Communist before the year is out...
As for making a difference (thanks for the compliments guys), I know there are going to be people that will not see any kind of difference no matter what I do.
Thats fine.
There are people who were burned a while ago and don't want to try WCF again.
Thats fine.
There are people who will tell everyone they can that we are the anti-christ of Fiero vendors and they need to stay away from doing business here.
Thats fine. I can grow my goatee longer if I need to look more the part...
If people call the shop after 5 PM I answer it by saying hello. I'm off the clock and its my personal time that I'm helping them with. Some people will think that unprofessional.
Thats fine.
The people who call or e-mail (e-mail is actually preferred) are the ones I will try to help out as much as I can. The people who are waiting for their parts to arrive before a Fiero run need me to tell them what their tracking number is. The people who want to know if they can put urethane mounts on their four cylinder are waiting for me to advise them that they might get more vibrations. People with cracks in their hubs need to know if they can be repaired or just replaced need to hear the options I can work out for them. I need to call a person who brought their Fiero to me with a bent clutch pedal after the dealer told them they needed to spend $1400 and see if their shifting is still better than its been in a while. People need to see how I'm going to react WHEN I screw something up. I don't like screwing up. But I do from time to time. I do use the eraser part of my pencils.
In short, my attention is needed elsewhere far more than this he said/he said, schoolground name-calling immaturity-ridden sand box of a thread.
Extreme, I am sorry if you felt like you were abused or that Chris was being abrasive. For once I'm at a loss at how it can be made up to you so I won't extend the insult.
PS Congratulations Timmer. Best wishes and good fortune towards a glowing, smiling mother and healthy child.
Anthony West Coast Fiero
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10:09 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I've been reading this thread and to be honest, it makes me a little sick to my stomach. I can understand if someone has some bad mounts, or felt their headers didn't fit, but we're talking about someone calling for free advice here and then not liking the advice he got (right or wrong).
I've bought some stuff from WCF, about $700 worth IIRC. I had problems with my headers from them. OK, it happens. I was more upset with the lack of customer service after the sale, but that was another time. I made one post detailing my problems with them, stated factually, and that's it. No more.
No, I have no interest in sending WCF any more of my business, but that's not out of any malice on my part, they simply have nothing I need right now that I can't get somewhere else and, IMHO WCF has about $400 of my money that I got no value returned from. Fine, again, things like this happen.
If WCF had a product that I really needed, and it was priced fairly, I'd probably give them another chance since it sounds like they're trying to make some changes. I can also say that, again, IMHO, it seems like a large enough number of people are happy with their dealings with them that while problems like mine might not be what could be called an isolated incident, I sure wouldn't categorize them as the "norm" either.
I wish Chris, Anthony, and the rest at WCF all the best. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I hope they get the customer service and delivery problems straightened out and do stay in business. But to fault a company for not taking the time to give enough good free advice is, to me, a pretty high standard to set. I'm just curious, why didn't the original poster call the Fiero Store, or one of half a dozen other vendors for their free advice? This whole thing is just plain silly, to me.
John Stricker
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11:11 PM
FormulaGT Member
Posts: 780 From: Santa Barbara, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003
I remember Anthony been at the shop like about 9...ish that is PM folks!!...I wanted some work done on my TB...why should he have answered the phone at this time? Yep but he did...5 hrs after business "officially" closed...that is work for you... thanks again Anthony...for all I care, the naysayers can go to the fiery oven, they will still come buy stuff secretly...they always do...AND start charging non-paying customers so this BS can stop!!
Hope this thread dies now!!
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09:34 AM
MOBILE Member
Posts: 768 From: Linwood, MN, USA Registered: May 2002
I think some constructive critisism would help. NOT negative B!tching.
Every company will have a few defective products or so. It happens.
In all the posts I've read about WCF, one thing is being ignored. Quit fighting and look at the easy solution.
All people want is better communication!!!!!!!!!!!!! Better Customer Service and Honesty. easy.
MOST things this company has done turn out well. BUT............
Chris, Anthony, other employees, you NEED more organization. period.
small issues resolved easily:
DEAL with these defective parts. admit that they could be bad. Get back to people promptly. Let people get accurate shipping info and dates. DON'T FIB!! If it's not in stock, don't say it is, and try to whip one out tomorrow, something will come up, things WILL get delayed a week or month, and now your caught in a lie in front of 9000 potential customers.
This all makes you look bad, even when your not.
No other car market will wait months and months for parts. Tell people when they call exactly how long it will be. Many people are waiting to reassemble their car until your parts arive. Taking their money and making promises that can't be kept seems to be the biggest issue. If someone needs something in a week, and you can't deliver, you need to turn down the sale.
Most people that recieve your parts are happy with the products themselves, but few are happy about the time or customer service.
Like I said this is constructive critisism. Not bad mouthing. If these problems are corrected, this would be a great business and contributor to the Fiero market. (Which is getting bigger every day)
Just my observations, sometimes a third mediating outside set of eyes is needed. MOBILE
------------------
Member MN Fieros Forever Self Installed SC3800/getrag. 10 years in Car Audio and Car Electronics Experiance........ GOT 19"s?? RIMS/TIRES FOR SALE!!! ONLY 2,000 Miles
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10:52 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27079 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Don't forget the other side of this issue. If you get a part from a vendor, and there's a problem (i.e. broken mount), DON'T immediately run to the computer, logon to Pennock's and blast away on the vendor. Exhaust all possibilities with them first. If the vendor blows you off, *then* give us the consumer warning. But instead of making a straight line from the garage to the computer, make sure you make a phone call first.
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11:49 AM
Cliff Pennock Administrator
Posts: 11615 From: Zandvoort, The Netherlands Registered: Jan 99
Kameo Kid might not agree whole heartedly since its his car that the work stops on more often than not.
Anthony West Coast Fiero
Well heck since Anthony pulled my name into this I may as well chime in..
edit: Dave's post (below) puts it in better terms.. reason for edit.. it was late when i wrote it and didn't like the way it sounded this morning.. sorry if offence was taken. I'm just sick of the bandwagon bashing that goes on time and time again.
Guess i've gotten used to WCF's way of answering a phone, I've told Chris I will teach him how to answer a phone when i'm out there.
As for me, i've not had bad service or products from this vender and will do business with them in the future..
edit: 2 Songman post is good too.
these two fine gents have pretty well said it.. ------------------ 3.4 DOHC Turbo swap in progress
[This message has been edited by Kameo Kid (edited 04-22-2004).]
I've been reading this thread from the beginning and i promised myself i wouldn't post in it but i have to. While i do agree that this particular thread about free advice and phone manners may not be something to really complain about, i do not understand the mentallity that since this is a Fiero business and there aren't many Fiero businesses that we should all just sit back and not saying anything if something goes wrong. That makes absolutely no sense! I do agree that you should certainly try and work things out with the person you're dealing with, whether they're a business or an individual, before posting something but isn't it the duty of a person who's been ripped off or recieved bad service to report that so that others don't fall victim to it as well?? It makes no sense to me that people should take crap from a business and say nothing to others about the bad experience just because it's a Fiero business and there aren't many of them. Does that mean that every bit of free advice phone conversations should be reported? NO! Has it ever occured to people that the people who are upset with WCF might just want them to change? Why is it automatically assumed that they're out to run this place out of business? To be honest, i've been asked about them before and i've always warned people that i would not trust them to to do business with at this time. I usually follow up with; I really wish they'd get their crap together. I hate to see a Fiero business not doing well and there's stuff from them i'd like to order myself but i wont until i see some changes. I don't want to see any Fiero business go out of business but i'm not going to line up to be taken advantage of, nore am i going to recomend them to someone who trusts my opinion who asks about them, at this time at least. Now, sure, there probably are some people who only slam them for personal, petty reasons and that's wrong but that's not why everyone posts about them and instead of just calling everyone idiots, maybe you should listen to what's being said and try to make some changes. Just a thought. A lot of these angry people who 'defend' WCF do it more damage then the whole problem in the first place. If you have good experience with WCF then post that. Why must you follow it up with calling people idiots, why are you trying to run a Fiero business out of business comments, or etc. All you do is get the people who had problems all riled up again and they then relive the whole experience and are mad all over again. The best post in this whole thread on WCF's behalf is Anthony's. All you've got to do it admit there's been mistakes and that you're trying to make changes. That's what people want to hear. Leave it at that. Someone also mentioned to ask for Anthony personally. Good idea. As for phone manners; It's sales. Selling means being polite and dealing with people. If you're busy or in a bad mood, then let the machine answer the phone and get back to them in the morning when it's a fresh day. Just my thoughts on this mess.
------------------ Activities Director N.I.F.E. www.fierofocus.com
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11:17 AM
NotAFieroAnyLonger Member
Posts: 4413 From: 75762/Texas/USA Registered: Dec 2003
Great post, Kid... And Dave, I agree and disagree with yours but I know your intent so it works...
Dave, I don't think anyone has ever said don't post bad experiences with vendors... What some of us have said is that the people who go from thread to thread any time WCF is mentioned and start slamming them regardless of the subject are doing it for no other reason than to try to harm WCF's business. I have spoken on behalf of WCF several times and I have never said that they didn't have things to work on. And I have always pointed out that they are working on them but need those slammers to back off and give them a chance.... On the other hand, I have also pointed out that, just as in politics, a very vocal minority can ruin a business by trying to insinuate that said business can do nothing right and can't be trusted. That is obviously not the case with WCF. They obviously make more people happy than upset or they wouldn't still be in business. Most people who are actual customers of WCF (not those who are just looking for free advice and aren't really customers) realize that they are a custom shop and don't put 'off-the-shelf' restraints on them... Look at Kameo Kid... Lots of people on this forum rant and rave on his behalf against WCF, yet he supports them and it is his car... Bandwagon-jumping is a huge and terrible part of this forum... The sad thing is that some of the thread-to-thread bashers do it for no other reason than to try to damage WCFs business and ultimately run them out of business... That is a lot different than just sharing experiences... Of course, the name calling, threatening, fighting, etc. is not good in any thread on any subject and just makes the people doing it lose credibility.
As I mentioned above, there have been a few people to post in this thread 'pretending' to be customers of WCF and complaining about customer service who were never customers of WCF at all. The thread started called in for free advice and didn't get the answer he wanted. There may have been some uncalled for things said (I don't know, I wasn't there), but I do know that Chris West is pretty flustered at the treatment WCF gets on this forum and I don't blame him. I do agree that those things should be kept private and not said to someone who calls on the phone though... Another person who always jumps on the WCF bashing threads posted earlier about how it is different when 'you have them work on your car then try to get a problem fixed'. This guy was never a customer at all. He went to the shop asking for free advice and the possibility of them working on his car. When they didn't drop everything and kiss his @$$ he got all mad and left and started slamming them on the forum. Don't believe everything you read....
The last comment about it being sales.... No, it's not. WCF is not in the business of phone sales. They are in the business of building custom Fieros and parts. While part of their phone time may be customer service, the majority of it is wasted on free advice. I'm not saying that either of those doesn't deserve courtesy... Both do. And as I, you, and several others have mentioned in this thread and several others exactly like it - that is what Anthony is there for. I am just of the opinion that free advice seekers don't have a right to come here and complain about a lack of 'customer service'. Become a customer first and then complain if you have a legitimate complaint.
I agree with almost everything you said songman, however, the sales part is true. You see, when i say sales, i don't necassarily mean that they're selling a product it is also selling the business itself. They do sell Fiero parts though, custom or not, they're parts and that's sales too. Selling the business is like selling (promoting) any business. What you're selling in that case is yourself. This is the why someone should buy from you or why someone should attend your clubs function. It's all sales really if you think about it and that's why i said it that way. Ironically, i didn't 'sell' my point to well i guess. At any rate, i'd be much happier to see them doing good then bad. I am always in the habit of promoting Fiero businesses, or any business really, that is good. I do, however, think that not everyone who posts even in more then one WCF thread about bad experiences should be so quickly labeled as trolls or having an agenda to put WCF out of business. That's not always the case.
I agree with almost everything you said songman, however, the sales part is true. You see, when i say sales, i don't necassarily mean that they're selling a product it is also selling the business itself. They do sell Fiero parts though, custom or not, they're parts and that's sales too. Selling the business is like selling (promoting) any business. What you're selling in that case is yourself. This is the why someone should buy from you or why someone should attend your clubs function. It's all sales really if you think about it and that's why i said it that way. Ironically, i didn't 'sell' my point to well i guess. At any rate, i'd be much happier to see them doing good then bad. I am always in the habit of promoting Fiero businesses, or any business really, that is good. I do, however, think that not everyone who posts even in more then one WCF thread about bad experiences should be so quickly labeled as trolls or having an agenda to put WCF out of business. That's not always the case.
i agree with you on this... the biggest thing next to what you sell is how it is sold. Advertising and promotion can help or hurt your product alot. How someone runs their business is upto them not the consumer. So all you can do is submit ideas to their business, if they are used, they must have been good ones, if not don't get upset.
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01:14 PM
Apr 26th, 2004
MOBILE Member
Posts: 768 From: Linwood, MN, USA Registered: May 2002
As I stated up above in my earlier post, I too, would like to see them remain in business and grow and grow! We always need more fiero parts and info.
As Dave and Songman said, we bring up issues hoping to help and get changes ball rolling.
The negativity needs to go. My biggest observations are the lack of keeping thier word, and dealing with getting defective parts solved. BOTH of these are usually caused by a company that's too busy! Besides a little frustration, with a few changes AND another employee or two, I'm sure they will be right back on track.
3.4DOHC/5speed swap coming soon..(gathering part's now!) 
