Stimpy,
I really don't feel like arguing a mute point...I will tell you this though...time is money...I will charge non-paying customers money to give an advice, so this way I weed out unecessary questions...you don't even want to know the questions ppl will ask and if something doesn't go there way guess what?...98% of the time it turns sour anywayz...lets stay within the scope of this useless thread...the originator is bitching about an advice or an opinion given to HER and she expected that the phone be answered a certain way, she also expected to be received with open arms...well excuse me if I have a customer wanting an advice and remember I am not charging to give this...( when you know you take the car to a mechanic you WILL be charge for diagnostic). I will be straight forward (and if you know Chris, especially when the shop is busy...hates a rambler: meaning telling a life story on how an issue ensued...) and forth coming as possible...you don't like what you heard, then take it with a grain of salt...you cannot meet eye to eye with ppl, even a vendor...so why even bring it here??? My rule of thumb...you cannot pls everyone period!!...if you make more than a xxx% parts by hand...x% will be subject to flaw...THE KEY WORD HERE...by hand!! I wish this was a perfect world then I will see what ppl will find to complain about!?!?

[This message has been edited by nocutt (edited 04-18-2004).]

Holy crap this is getting ugly. Everyone take a big breath before your next post

quote Originally posted by FordsNeverDie: What - you want a ****ing cookie for that or something!? Wait - maybe that's why you aren't so hard to spot in a crowd... I mean come on... I know McDonalds has had 3 cookies for 99 cents, but you don't have to keep buying them out like they aren't going to have them anymore... Your dad sat there for gawd aweful hours... What - you want an award because Eric made him sit there for so long?! What - or you want a big - mac this time?

No, just the fact of you looking like an idiot saying that the car sat out on the street all that time after it was finished when it wasn't even finished when he got there. Do you understand? Maybe you can ask someone to read it to you and explain all the big words to you.

And my ass got fat off of much finer food then your McDonalds cookies, pal. Get a real job, maybe you can get off of the crank and start eating some real food.

We're all so impressed by your huge e-penis.

Yours truly,
A six and a half foot tall, 325 lb little gay girl ***** . Say it out loud. To my face.

*sound of paper crumpling* Cliff SHHOOOOOTSSSS! AND SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *satisfying thump at the bottom of the trash can*

\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/ Ok drinks are on me, past,present,or future, we all share a love for the fiero,
So we all just need to shut the hell up...If you dont like the way someone does business, its plain & simple DONT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM...This like so many other threads before it are all the same, its all he said/she said and sounding like a broken record,
There is a forever decreasing # of these great little cars and the people/vendors around to help us out, instead of always ending up in a stupid litte grammer scool fight with the Im bigger/say it to my face/ lets take it outside crap, we could just state or try to improve on what we haveI.E Yes maybe it would be nice to call WCF and get the West Coast Fiero can I help you greeting etc
I have had many experiences with different vendors, good and bad, Im in a situation with another ppf member right now over taking over 5 months now to complete my order, but im not going out of my way to flame them by trying to ruin business for them.
So cant we all just get along.............For once please

quote Originally posted by spddy: \_/\_/\_/\_/\_/ Ok drinks are on me, past,present,or future, we all share a love for the fiero, So we all just need to shut the hell up...If you dont like the way someone does business, its plain & simple DONT DO BUSINESS WITH THEM...This like so many other threads before it are all the same, its all he said/she said and sounding like a broken record, There is a forever decreasing # of these great little cars and the people/vendors around to help us out, instead of always ending up in a stupid litte grammer scool fight with the Im bigger/say it to my face/ lets take it outside crap, we could just state or try to improve on what we haveI.E Yes maybe it would be nice to call WCF and get the West Coast Fiero can I help you greeting etc I have had many experiences with different vendors, good and bad, Im in a situation with another ppf member right now over taking over 5 months now to complete my order, but im not going out of my way to flame them by trying to ruin business for them. So cant we all just get along.............For once please

Word.

Hey spddy, got my rockcrawl hoodvent. I'm going to put it in next week I think. You quoted me $300 for the decklid and wing at the san ramon dyno day. How much more for the hood if it's ready to spray?

SEE SIGNATURE vvv

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Quote that I never thought I would use:
"It is better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Perhaps a flashy sig test will swat the flies?

Greg

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So let me understand this, you're faulting WCF for trying to give you free tech support when you're not even a customer???!!!!

Next time, your dumbass can open a book and read how to do it yourself. Asshat.

I've bought a number of different products from WCF and have been happy with each and every purchase.

Chris West personally spent an hour on the phone with me explaining how to disasemble a transmission and inspect it so that I wouldn't waste money replacing parts that didn't need to be replaced or neglect replaing something that needed to be replaced. What other vendor in the fiero community would have both the knowledge and the willingness to do that?

quote Originally posted by FieroGTguy: Perhaps a flashy sig test will swat the flies? Greg

Hey...I've seen that before, somewhere...

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Jeremy B.

quote Our experiences and our opinions differ. No problem; we can agree to disagree. However, please don't take the position that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. ---MrPBody

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: So let me understand this, you're faulting WCF for trying to give you free tech support when you're not even a customer???!!!!

doesnt sound like they tried much, or knew much. He was trying to inform WCF that he didnt have 6 wires, the guy on the phone got pissed and hung up. WCF was wonrg, theres only 4 wires there, not 6 WCF was giving wrongful info, not helping at all. and Short out 2 wires? WTF? just disconnect the battery, if WCF trys to solve something by shorting out wires then they need to look it up in a book on how to do it properly

WCF was trying to give free tech support for a problem.

Maybe it would be better for their business if they didn't try to help the community?

Sounds to me like the guy needs to open up his haynes and quit bitching.

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: doesnt sound like they tried much, or knew much. He was trying to inform WCF that he didnt have 6 wires, the guy on the phone got pissed and hung up. WCF was wonrg, theres only 4 wires there, not 6 WCF was giving wrongful info, not helping at all. and Short out 2 wires? WTF? just disconnect the battery, if WCF trys to solve something by shorting out wires then they need to look it up in a book on how to do it properly

Holy Crap, I leave to work on my Fiero and eat dinner and I come back to this! Man has this gone down hill.

I'm afraid I'm going to withdraw from this one. I met Chris West and others at Fiero events and they were very cool, helpful people. All the time I see on here about how someone "Hates" WCF because thats what you do when WCF doesn't hand you what you want on a silver platter. Thats how it looks to me. Another vendor you have trouble with, you give them the benefit of the doubt at first and post something if its a huge deal. If its WCF, you skip benefit of the doubt and go immediately to spiteful thread promising never to ever do business with them again. Its a painful double standard, and as several have already mentioned, WHY ARE YOU ALL SO INTENT ON DRIVING A FIERO VENDOR OUT OF BUSINESS? ITS NOT LIKE THERES A LOT OF THEM OUT THERE! I realize they've had some issues, but unless every single thing they do is a miserable failure, the treatment they get is unjust. Obviously, that is not the case, testified to by the GOOD stories several have posted and the fact that WCF still exists. Am I just too trusting of people or what?

SPECIAL NOTE TO GOOBHER: You are making it VERY DIFFICULT to say ANYTHING in the defense of WCF with your posts. I thought you would come here and do what you have done before, defend the business and try to bury some hatchets. WHAT THE HE!! ARE YOU DOING? Picking a fight with another forum member? Do you think that this in ANY WAY helps you, WCF, or your case in General? If someone reading this thread was undecided on thier opinion of WCF, you are forcing it in the WRONG direction. Your posts here, in some bizarre attempted defense of WCF, are utterly appaling.

NOTE TO STIMPY: Easy there buddy! I don't want to see my friends and aquaintances duking it out any time soon! Don't let Goohbers idiot rants get to you! Tell your side of the story by all means, but no spilling blood Please!

For all the above reasons I withdraw here and now from all further endorsement or defense of WCF. I tried, I really did, to give you all the benefit of the doubt and to defend what I felt was unjust, bandwagon hatred towards your business. But after Chris' brief, instigating, and wholly unhelpful post and Goobhers rants, I can no longer justify any support or defense of you. Best of luck in your business.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: WHY ARE YOU ALL SO INTENT ON DRIVING A FIERO VENDOR OUT OF BUSINESS? ITS NOT LIKE THERES A LOT OF THEM OUT THERE!.

That's what Chris & I were talking about all nite the other nite... But, obviously, there are people that like coming out here to start the threads.. I just keep them going, in an attempt to make a world PFF record as to how fast they can get dumped in the trash!

--- Goobher!

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The views posted in this response are solely the opinion of Goobher, and should not, in any way, be associated with WCF (West Coast Fiero), or it's inteties in any way...

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks: So let me understand this, you're faulting WCF for trying to give you free tech support when you're not even a customer???!!!! Next time, your dumbass can open a book and read how to do it yourself. Asshat. I've bought a number of different products from WCF and have been happy with each and every purchase. Chris West personally spent an hour on the phone with me explaining how to disasemble a transmission and inspect it so that I wouldn't waste money replacing parts that didn't need to be replaced or neglect replaing something that needed to be replaced. What other vendor in the fiero community would have both the knowledge and the willingness to do that?

I'm assuming that's directed at ca_extreme and not me, but there's so much misinformation blowing around here I want to clarify. I've got no problems with any of the WCF products on my car, and there are quite a few. My problem is with the manner in which pieces were ineptly "modified" and installed (I am aware that the parties doing these "modifications" are no longer employed by WCF), the disregard that I've personally witnessed toward resolving valid complaints (although I'm definately giving Anthony the benefit of my belief that he's trying to resolve these issues), and the gang mentality that WCF's e-thugs let loose whenever someone isn't absolutely singing their praises (and I understand that Chris can't be expected to control the dogs, but if details about transactions gone poorly are going to be discussed with uninvolved parties, maybe y'all can get the facts straight.)

I agree that just because a business deals with a product, they can't be expected to provide 24hr tech support, especially to people that aren't customers. I see products from WCF that I would like to have, but this bridge is way beyond torched, especially after Goober's enlightening posts.

quote Originally posted by stimpy: I see products from WCF that I would like to have, but this bridge is way beyond torched, especially after Goober's enlightening posts.

That's what I am here for... As long as I can make everyones life so much happier, and such a better place to live, then I have succeded in my mission!

I work in an office where i am the only male ... and this bickering, gossiping, and immaturity is far greater than what i put up with at work ... why are you people fighting?? ... its just an opinion... and why be so quick to point out why somone else is wrong ...

Matthew 7:5 "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

im full of proverbs

Matthew 6:2, 5 "Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. "

and if all else fails ... SEE SIGNATURE VVV

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Quote that I never thought I would use:
"It is better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Holy Crap, I leave to work on my Fiero and eat dinner and I come back to this! Man has this gone down hill. SPECIAL NOTE TO GOOBHER: You are making it VERY DIFFICULT to say ANYTHING in the defense of WCF with your posts. I thought you would come here and do what you have done before, defend the business and try to bury some hatchets. WHAT THE HE!! ARE YOU DOING? Picking a fight with another forum member? Do you think that this in ANY WAY helps you, WCF, or your case in General? If someone reading this thread was undecided on thier opinion of WCF, you are forcing it in the WRONG direction. Your posts here, in some bizarre attempted defense of WCF, are utterly appaling.

Boy what a crowd... Your a Nazi if you come out here and try and say anything in the defense of someone that the thread is flaming... Then if you just have fun for the nite, and get the crowd riled up, your an ******* ... Man, there's no happy medium around here... Sheesh...

Hey - do what you choose... If you decide to can WCF for what's going on on the forum, kewl... I think I covered that a few posts ago with the "congradulations category"... If not, kewl... Either way, it's your choice!

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The views posted in this response are solely the opinion of Goobher, and should not, in any way, be associated with WCF (West Coast Fiero), or it's inteties in any way...

quote Originally posted by FordsNeverDie: That's what I am here for... As long as I can make everyones life so much happier, and such a better place to live, then I have succeded in my mission!

So basically you're just here posting to kill business for Chris? Good job.

OK, past my bedtime. 5 day work week ahead. Grrr.

Y'all have fun. I figure it'll be trash can bound by the next time I check in.

quote Originally posted by 88GTNeverfinished: OK, past my bedtime. 5 day work week ahead. Grrr. Y'all have fun. I figure it'll be trash can bound by the next time I check in.

Cliff must already be in bed... I'm surprised it's not already there!

--- Goobher!

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The views posted in this response are solely the opinion of Goobher, and should not, in any way, be associated with WCF (West Coast Fiero), or it's inteties in any way...

quote Originally posted by FordsNeverDie: Boy what a crowd... Your a Nazi if you come out here and try and say anything in the defense of someone that the thread is flaming... Then if you just have fun for the nite, and get the crowd riled up, your an ******* ... Man, there's no happy medium around here... Sheesh... Hey - do what you choose... If you decide to can WCF for what's going on on the forum, kewl... I think I covered that a few posts ago with the "congradulations category"... If not, kewl... Either way, it's your choice!

Goobher, if you just want to come in and "just have fun for the nite, and get the crowd riled up," I emplore you to get a second screen name to do it. Everyone knows you work for WCF and are one of the few people who actually speaks on thier behalf. "FordsNeverDie" is forever directly linked to WCF and being a representative thereof. If you come in here and "get the crowd riled up," you do it as a representative of WCF and you make WCF look bad. People aren't going to read the footnote in your signature and automatically disconnect everything they just read from WCF. They're linked, period. Said hypothetical people will remember your attitude ( and people remember negative things much better than positive ones, its been proven) the next time they think of WCF.

You're shooting yourself in the foot. Thats all I'm trying to tell you.

Damn, so much for withdrawing from this one...

[This message has been edited by Fastback 86 (edited 04-19-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Everyone knows you work for WCF and are one of the few people who actually speaks on thier behalf.

Geez... I wish that people around there knew that I work for them... Maybe then I could get a paycheck for just doing absolutely nothing related to Fieros! I don't nor have I ever worked for them... Well, if you count being the cook at the BBQ's, then yes, I guess I do... As for my involvment with them, I am nothing more than the "West Coast Fiero Support Vehicle"... That's it!

--- Goobher!

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The views posted in this response are solely the opinion of Goobher, and should not, in any way, be associated with WCF (West Coast Fiero), or it's inteties in any way...

quote Originally posted by Howard_Sacks:

can anyone find a post from this boob where he isn't being a complete troll? seems like his ugly posts pop up anywhere he can call people names....i dont care which side of this arguement you are on, this guy is a tard i would think nobody would want in their corner

This post edited. Sorry, Howard_Sacks.

[This message has been edited by stimpy (edited 04-19-2004).]

Hey tough guy, can you find a post where YOU post something useful?

I'll put my useful posts hitch to hitch against yours or stimpy's for that matter.

quote Originally posted by Car Michael: can anyone find a post from this boob where he isn't being a complete troll? seems like his ugly posts pop up anywhere he can call people names....i dont care which side of this arguement you are on, this guy is a tard i would think nobody would want in their corner

wow holy crap this thread stinks bad ..... but here is some better news to make it smell better ... im gonna the proud dad of another future fiero owner in october woooooohooooooooooooooooooooo yay for me

quote Originally posted by stimpy: parties doing these "modifications" are no longer employed by WCF), the disregard that I've personally witnessed toward resolving valid complaints (although I'm definately giving Anthony the benefit of my belief that he's trying to resolve these issues), and the gang mentality that WCF's e-thugs let loose whenever someone isn't absolutely singing their praises (and I understand that Chris can't be expected to control the dogs, but if details about transactions gone poorly are going to be discussed with uninvolved parties, maybe y'all can get the facts straight.)

Not mentioning any names, but they aren't the only ones with so called "e-thugs".

I think we can safely file this with the FOCOA threads. Some people are very displeased with the customer service, or lack thereof, while others swear by them. I imagine a lot of the people who get great service from WCF are friends with them, while the unknown faces off the internet are not given as high a priority.

Just as FOCOA was defended for it's failures because "it's a club" or "it's only run by Phil", WCF is being defended because "it's a hobby" and "it's done on the side." None of these are excuses for poor customer service when you are in business, whether that's your primary bread and butter or a side business. There are ignorant and rude customers, to be sure. You run into them in any business. That does not mean it's ok for the business to be rude to customers, though. That's part of doing business. Deal with it. Don't sell to the rude customers, but being rude yourself only hurts your own business.

Now let's put this to bed and get on with our lives.

quote Originally posted by fierobear: Not mentioning any names, but they aren't the only ones with so called "e-thugs".

Are we supposed to know what that means?

quote Originally posted by Sleeper: ...i just don't have the heart to comment on this thread now. but hey, check it out. i just farted!

That's about the level of intelligence I'd expect from the WCF "followers"

quote Originally posted by PURPLE REIGN: That's about the level of intelligence I'd expect from the WCF "followers"

Once again being an a$$hole

quote Originally posted by stimpy: Are we supposed to know what that means?

WCF aren't the only ones (individual, business, or organization) that have a loyal contingent that rushes to their defense.

This has to be one of the stupidest threads I have ever seen on this forum. Makes me glad my attempt at being a Fiero vendor fell through... Seems to me that people should be glad that there are people who are willing to even try to make updates for Fieros instead of trying to drag them down... So I guess I am ruining my reputation and "forever linking myself to WCF" just because I think they are treated unfairly in threads like this. Well, I guess I'll take that chance...

I came to CA just over a year and a half ago. Prior to that I was one of those faceless internet people that WCF probably ignores, as posed in one comment above. Chris West was always willing to spend time on the phone with me to answer my stupid questions although he had never laid eyes on me. I can name a few very large name Fiero vendors who will not do that but are still worshipped. When I got to CA and went to WCF the first time they treated me very well from the minute I walked in off the street and they have continued to do so. My point is that they treat me well now that I am their friend, and they did so before as well...

Some will say that they take too long to do jobs... Yeah... so? They are a custom shop. If you want it quick go buy it off the shelf IF you can find it... Lots of other Fiero shops I have dealt with or heard of take longer than they say on jobs too. It is a matter of reality to say that things come up and you have to conform. I'm learning that more than ever building my kit. WCF obviously recognizes that they need to do something. That is why Anthony is there to try to streamline jobs as they go through the shop. Yes, I know... "Taking a long time doesn't always mean meticulous work." Unless you are there everyday watching the process, I assume you aren't qualified to make that observation. Obviously WCF does make a lot of people happy or they wouldn't be in business. Sounds just like politics.. They loudest faction is assumed to be right whether they are or not.

All of this talk of e-thugs and other such talk is just stupid. Yes, I am friends with WCF and I am also friends with some of the people who are saying this crap and I wish people would stop going from thread to thread slamming WCF at any given opportunity and give Anthony and Chris a chance to make changes. Personally, I'd hate to see WCF or anyone willing to deal with a bunch of pain in the ass Fiero owners to go out of business... Quite a few other vendors that I am friends with have also expressed how much they hate the constant back-stabbing and attacks. After a while it just isn't worth it anymore. Then what will we do?

So, now that I have ruined my reputation on the forum by becoming a WCF e-thug and forever aligning myself with them, I think I will go back to my break from spending so much time here...

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Fiero-Performance.com

quote Originally posted by fierobear: WCF aren't the only ones (individual, business, or organization) that have a loyal contingent that rushes to their defense.

And ice cream is yummy. What else is obvious today?

quote Originally posted by stimpy: And ice cream is yummy. What else is obvious today?

The comment was in response to what you said here:

quote and the gang mentality that WCF's e-thugs let loose whenever someone isn't absolutely singing their praises

The point being, they aren't the only ones that have a contingent that rush to their defense. Just in case it wasn't obvious.

quote Originally posted by FordsNeverDie: As for my involvment with them, I am nothing more than the "West Coast Fiero Support Vehicle"... That's it!

Yeah, and if you were giving my business the same 'quality' of support, I'd have put a restraining order out on you, 'cuz believe me, from a completely outside viewpoint, you're NOT doing them any favors...

I'm not one to get into WCF conflicts (as I've never worked with them, nor do I forsee doing so in the near future). Hmmm... I may be missing something - but these posts contain conflicting info, don't they?

quote Originally posted by FordsNeverDie @ 04-19-2004 01:51 AM : Geez... I wish that people around there knew that I work for them... Maybe then I could get a paycheck for just doing absolutely nothing related to Fieros! I don't nor have I ever worked for them... Well, if you count being the cook at the BBQ's, then yes, I guess I do... As for my involvment with them, I am nothing more than the "West Coast Fiero Support Vehicle"... That's it! --- Goobher!

And then here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/040405.html I run across this (not even 24hrs earlier):

quote Originally posted by FordsNeverDie @ 04-18-2004 03:47 PM : I agree with the auto responder.. In fact, I have the West Coast Fiero Online Store ready for action... It has the main parts that WCF carries... Mounts, brackets, exhaust, etc... I am adding parts as the days go by... This may be the best way to actually order stuff from WCF from now on... That way, it keeps everyone there busier on the work in the shop, and gives them more time to help others out with tech support, etc... In fact, I have done craploads of modifications to the online store from the WCF side... Followups with customers automatically... When your shipment is sent from WCF, you get an email with the tracking information and who the shipper was... Hopefully, this will help A LOT with people stating that parts were never ordered, sent, etc... There's also a helpdesk system installed, so when you get your parts, if you have problems with them during install, you can open a trouble ticket, and get a response via email that way ( which is preferred since we don't seem to be having much luck finding all the fact about problems on here )... So hopefully this helps everyone out, because I know people have been saying that they call in orders, and it takes forever to get them shipped, etc... Anywayz, hope it helps everyone out... --- Goobher! http://fieros.westcoastfiero.com/shopwcf

So... are you working with/for WCF or not?

As for Dale - I'm pretty sure you wouldn't qualify as an e-thug... your response is very well thought out and specific (and does not include any name-calling or anything)