Above, the tube had 1 fitting on it and I needed 2 so I installed another one. The one with the bigger hose I used a 1/2 nipple drilled the hole and screwed it in. I placed it so It would connect back up to the original hose.
Above is a pic of it.
I cut a hose and used it around the opening to protect the alum. tube and prevent noise from any vibration.
I placed Velcro around the hole to hold the rubber mat I cut to seal up the hole. That way it will be easy to remove.
Filter with mat Velcroed in place.
If you look close you can see where the 2 hoses are connected. 1 is up under the tube near the TB is. Other is over where the original filter housing was, in fact I ended up using the original hose. My filter has a metal base, I drilled a hole in it and screwed the sensor into it, can't see it in the pic becuase it is on the back side of the filter. So sensor is in where the filter is.
The workmanship looks great and you appear to have taken time to give it a nice finished look. Myself, I can't cut a hole without it looking like I did it with pre-school shears.
Just a couple of questions.
It looks like the filter is in the wheel well. If that is correct isn't it going to get pluged up fast? Also if it is in the well wouldn't that be more of a low pressure area then the stock location?
Of course if my eyes decieve me and the filter is in the stock location then my question is what have you gained?
Again it looks great and please don't take my questions the wronge way.
The workmanship looks great and you appear to have taken time to give it a nice finished look. Myself, I can't cut a hole without it looking like I did it with pre-school shears.
Just a couple of questions.
It looks like the filter is in the wheel well. If that is correct isn't it going to get pluged up fast? Also if it is in the well wouldn't that be more of a low pressure area then the stock location?
Of course if my eyes decieve me and the filter is in the stock location then my question is what have you gained?
Again it looks great and please don't take my questions the wronge way.
That is where the stock system gets its air from except there is just a pipe in that location and not a filter. I don't know about it getting dirty but it looks less restrictive witout that stock hose and canister.
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10:24 PM
Feb 29th, 2004
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
The workmanship looks great and you appear to have taken time to give it a nice finished look. Myself, I can't cut a hole without it looking like I did it with pre-school shears.
Just a couple of questions.
It looks like the filter is in the wheel well. If that is correct isn't it going to get pluged up fast? Also if it is in the well wouldn't that be more of a low pressure area then the stock location?
Of course if my eyes decieve me and the filter is in the stock location then my question is what have you gained?
Again it looks great and please don't take my questions the wrong way.
No problem with the questions, The filter is in the stock location , inside my side scoop. You gain by no restrictions thru a filter stuck on the end of a 3" smooth bore pipe straight to the TB. The stock one is very restricted, take one apart and you will see what I mean !!You can both hear and feel the difference. I really like the sound it produces especially when you get into the throttle thru 1st and 2nd !! I made it where it is very easy to service the filter. I cut a opening in the wheel well and then made a screw on cover from a piece of a spare fender well I had.
umm, so heres the real question, seat of the pants, does it make a difference??
Yes I actually can tell it made a difference, even my wife commented on it when we took it for a test ride right after I finished the install. Another thing I noticed right off is my idle is smoother.
Nice work. That will be an interesting filter change. That gives me some ideas for my cold air tube thanks.
Hey where did you get the rubber tube that connects the throttle body to the tube?
A blue one came with the kit I bought, I got the red one here www.ctamotorsports.com Wasn't cheap though with shipping they charged....but I wanted Red and it was the only one I could find. I got the kit from PROAUTOSALON off Ebay it is called CIVIC/CRX 88-91 AIR INTAKE SYSTEM very cheap $33.00 shipped, (just ordered another one today) .
Very nice. Cold air intake that makes it out of the engine compartment. Never understood the ones that have the filter sucking superheated air off the crossover tube.
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01:55 AM
PFF
System Bot
MiZer Member
Posts: 1673 From: Chilliwack, B.C. Canada Registered: Jun 2003
Above, the tube had 1 fitting on it and I needed 2 so I installed another one. The one with the bigger hose I used a 1/2 nipple drilled the hole and screwed it in. I placed it so It would connect back up to the original hose.
Above is a pic of it.
I cut a hose and used it around the opening to protect the alum. tube and prevent noise from any vibration.
I placed Velcro around the hole to hold the rubber mat I cut to seal up the hole. That way it will be easy to remove.
Filter with mat Velcroed in place.
If you look close you can see where the 2 hoses are connected. 1 is up under the tube near the TB is. Other is over where the original filter housing was, in fact I ended up using the original hose. My filter has a metal base, I drilled a hole in it and screwed the sensor into it, can't see it in the pic becuase it is on the back side of the filter. So sensor is in where the filter is.
If it makes you feel better that's fine but other than raising the noise level you are getting no HP increases from this over the stock setup on the 2.8.
There was extensive testing done by a GM engineer that was into racing the Fiero in the 80's by the name of Herb Adams. Two things he found that the design engineers did their homework on.
1. The stock ECM chip worked fine compared to using it in a 2.8 compared to so called custom chips.
2. The removal of the stock intake did nothing to increase performance.
I thought about doing this at one time until I read the article and later talked to one of my buddies that worked on the project while I was at Pontiac and he advised me not to if I was going to drive it in everday weather conditions. Without the water seperator it could plug up the intake with gunk, mud & debris. The stock cold air intake has the seperator there for a reason and also think about why all the early prototypes had side scoops but never produced them for the production vehicles. They were not practical for the daily driver. It is even in Gary Witzenburg's book regarding the test mules.
But like I said if it sounds good and you like it that's your business.
Me I'm not going to waste my time trying to increase horsepower on something that does nothing. The best hp improvements you can make on the 2.8 are going to require head porting, exhaust porting, cam changes and stroking the engine all of which I have done. Was it worth it? For what I have invested I could have had a V8 but at least I have a stock looking GT that will keep up with a lot of stuff on the road. The V8? Maybe another car & project down the road.
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11:39 AM
stimpy Member
Posts: 8197 From: Salinas, CA Registered: Jan 2000
I think someone should dyno the CAI vrs stock just to put the debate to an end. Even if (and thats a big if) there are no performance gains, the CAI cleans up the engine bay!
Now for the engine swapped guys, you all know the stock air intake is a HUGE restriction. So the CAI is for you. Garths TDC fiero and my 4.9 fiero always ran much better just by removing the top of the stock air filter housing. So there are gains to be made if you have an engine that requires more air flow than the stock system can supply.
If it makes you feel better that's fine but other than raising the noise level you are getting no HP increases from this over the stock setup on the 2.8.
There was extensive testing done by a GM engineer that was into racing the Fiero in the 80's by the name of Herb Adams. Two things he found that the design engineers did their homework on.
1. The stock ECM chip worked fine compared to using it in a 2.8 compared to so called custom chips.
2. The removal of the stock intake did nothing to increase performance.
I thought about doing this at one time until I read the article and later talked to one of my buddies that worked on the project while I was at Pontiac and he advised me not to if I was going to drive it in everday weather conditions. Without the water seperator it could plug up the intake with gunk, mud & debris. The stock cold air intake has the seperator there for a reason and also think about why all the early prototypes had side scoops but never produced them for the production vehicles. They were not practical for the daily driver. It is even in Gary Witzenburg's book regarding the test mules.
But like I said if it sounds good and you like it that's your business.
Me I'm not going to waste my time trying to increase horsepower on something that does nothing. The best hp improvements you can make on the 2.8 are going to require head porting, exhaust porting, cam changes and stroking the engine all of which I have done. Was it worth it? For what I have invested I could have had a V8 but at least I have a stock looking GT that will keep up with a lot of stuff on the road. The V8? Maybe another car & project down the road.
I have a little trouble believing that the stock fiero air intake that I can hear gasping for air OVER the engine is as good as this free flowing system. Chips that completely ingnore emmisions laws.. no, no pwr there. Omg, I understand now.
Originally posted by Azriel: I have a little trouble believing that the stock fiero air intake that I can hear gasping for air OVER the engine is as good as this free flowing system. Chips that completely ingnore emmisions laws.. no, no pwr there. Omg, I understand now.
/sigh
The primary way to reduce emissions is to burn HC as completely as possible. The side effect of increasing combustion efficiency is increased horsepower. So, it stands to reason that if you maximise the power increase due to efficiency increases you therefor reduce emissions. That is exactly what was done with the Fiero motor. Changing PROMs to use different maps without making changes to the physical hardware of the engine like camshafts, intake manifolds, and heads is a waste of money because the Fiero PROM is already pretty much as optimized as it can get for the stock motor. The PROMs that you buy typically make very tiny changes to the EGR tables, but that has no effect on power at all. In fact, these chip sellers rely on the placebo effect quite a bit, using excellent marketing to convince you that you feel an increase in power, when in fact the power is the same or even reduced.
Regarding the Fiero intake system, it's already been tested to be about as good as an intake system can get on the stock Fiero V6. It doesn't look pretty, what with no shiny bits except for the clamps, but it works great. The aftermarket kits are prettier looking, but since nobody's posted a direct before and after dyno sheet it's purely conjecture if they make a difference one way or the other. As far as free-flowing, look at the cross-sectional area of the throttle body, and recall that the area of the neck further down inside the upper plenum is even smaller. Because of this, having a 4, 5, or even 10" diameter air intake will make absolutely no difference. Not only that, but compare the surface area of the small cone filter typically used with these kits against the large cylindrical filter used by the factory. That surface area determines how often the filter needs to be cleaned, and how fast the filter efficiency degrades as the filter gets dirty. Bigger is better, but the typical CAI filter is half the size of the stock filter.
As a parting thought, looking at the install in this case it seems like the PCV fresh air supply tube (the large rubber hose) is connected to the metal line on the firewall. If this car has had the recall work done on it in the past then the other end of that metal tube is either capped or not connected to anything. If not connected to anything, then dirty unfiltered air is being sucked into the engine. He needs to follow that metal tube to see that it is connected to the valve cover with a rubber hose. The recall replaced that hose with a metal line that plumbed into the intake snorkle up by the throttle body. This was done because condensing oil vapors were filling the air filter housing with oil because of the original PCV tube's low connection to the air cleaner housing.
Well, here is my opinions for what it is worth. There is very, very little debris that gets in the area of the filter, only place it can come besides the scoop is a small area underneath and then it has to go straight up. I know because I have had lights in my scoops for several years now and they had only a slight film of dirt on them and very little dirt in the area at all considering how old the car is. Second a good filter will filter out most any trash, thats what they are for. Third I don't drive in the rain, and even if I did you would have to take a water hose and squirt it directly up and into the scoop to get enough water into it to worry about. Fourth I never claimed a HP gain, but I do know for a fact it pulls better through 1st and 2nd and idles better, and sounds better and it has to breath better. Its a direct flow with no restrictions. Fifth it looks great, much cleaner. Sixth its a cool mod for us who just love working on our cars and dressing them up (doesn't always have to be just for performance). Seventh what does it hurt. And I am sure it can go on and on. But primarily and most important......I like it and thats why I did it and everything else I've done to my car, period !! Would I do it again , Yes without a doubt !!!!! Would I go back to stock..ever...NO !!
Zoom88, did you check on the PCV tube routing? That's a fairly important item that will shorten the life of your engine if unfiltered air is being drawn in through the PCV system. Also, the small tube is the cool air intake for the EGR solenoid which has its own filter, FWIW. Pulling cool air into the solenoid makes it last longer.
Another question: Do you think you get any heat gain from the coolant tube being next to the filter?
JazzMan
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03:35 PM
stimpy Member
Posts: 8197 From: Salinas, CA Registered: Jan 2000
Zoom88, did you check on the PCV tube routing? That's a fairly important item that will shorten the life of your engine if unfiltered air is being drawn in through the PCV system. Also, the small tube is the cool air intake for the EGR solenoid which has its own filter, FWIW. Pulling cool air into the solenoid makes it last longer.
Another question: Do you think you get any heat gain from the coolant tube being next to the filter?
JazzMan
All the original hoses are connected. I don't know about the coolant tubing ... but I would thing the large amounts of air passing thru the side scoop would benefit both the coolant tube and the intake. One day after a long drive I will pull the wheel well cover and check it out. Also I got this Idea while making coffee to make a shield that will go around about 2/3 of the filter while still leaving about a 1 - 1 1/2" gap between it and the filter. I am not good at PSP so here is a rough idea of what I am thinking of. Think it makes sense ?
I noticed that in the install pictures ther doesn't seem to be a provision for tha intake air temp sensor. I imagine an easy way to see how the stock Fiero intake and these Honda things compare would be by using a scanner and reading the intake air temps. Maybe that's too simple of a test.
I noticed that in the install pictures ther doesn't seem to be a provision for tha intake air temp sensor. I imagine an easy way to see how the stock Fiero intake and these Honda things compare would be by using a scanner and reading the intake air temps. Maybe that's too simple of a test.
I mentioned earlier in the post that the sensor is screwed into the solid metal backing of the filter. You can not see it because it is on the backside.
The best place to test for air temp is in the throttle body neck just ahead of the throttle plate. I'm planning on doing some testing with this at some point this summer when the temps rise and I'll post results here.
Zoom88, in regards to the shield, that probably won't be a bad idea though, like you said, that area isn't prone to get a lot of junk.
JazzMan
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06:18 PM
LoW_KeY Member
Posts: 8081 From: Hastings, MI Registered: Oct 2001
don't think you have to worry about stuff coming from the bottom I drove mine in the rain a few times and over a 1200 mile period looked new still
I wasn't expecting that I checked it out and was shocked, I was going to build a little box around the filter, but I said forget it after seeing how clean the filter was.
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06:27 PM
PFF
System Bot
TaurusThug Member
Posts: 4271 From: Simpsonville, SC Registered: Aug 2003
This thing is only $17.50 with filter! I would change that to a good K&N. I spent 3 times that building my own and doesn't look as good. I would order one just for fun. Also don't trust anyone saying bs that it does or does not add any HP without a dyno sheet. Many people here repeat what someone else said over and over until everybody beleives it http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2462841309&category=38634
Hey, was wondering if you had checked your CAI install lately? I am wondering if the velcro backing glue is still adhesing well to the metal frame up under that wheel well liner?
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03:31 AM
The_Ikon Member
Posts: 629 From: Mississippi, USA Registered: Mar 2004
I remember seeing something about this mod being done to a Duke using the TBI cover from a Cavilier (Circa 88). I wish I could remember where now. Seems like a good idea. Thanks, Zoom
