Has anyone ever attempted this or can it even be attempted or completed? Be kind of neat to have a 5.0L in a Fiero and it could easily be fast? Any ideas or inputs on how this could be done or if anyone has tried it before? Thanks.
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Maroon 1987 GT 5 spd: 2.8L Ferrari Red 1988 Formula 5 spd: 3.4L
why would you waste your time? why wouldnt you just drop a 350 in and have more hp and easier? Unless you want to be so different that you need to mix quality with crap
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04:10 AM
fieromadman Member
Posts: 2217 From: Oconomowoc WI, USA Registered: Jan 2003
Im just asking, just kind of curious. That's all. Anything has been done in a Fiero it seems, figured you know there was some info or something.
I wasnt saying your question was wrong, its just that evertime anyone asks about mixing engines especially fords you get alot of this:
quote
Originally posted by Czar:
why would you waste your time? why wouldnt you just drop a 350 in and have more hp and easier? Unless you want to be so different that you need to mix quality with crap
i think it would be interesting but i don't see it as a kit type thing. more like someone with a lot of personal building experience builds themselves one. kind of like how ls1swap put his engine in on his own. probaly someone with a lot of specific ford experience and/or general automobile knowhow wanting to do something different.
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08:15 AM
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
umm... isnt it kinda hard to do a ford engine in a GM? -Ryan
not any harder than making an adapter plate for a 3800 or a GM 350 and integrating the wiring harnesses together with a different computer. it is the same amount of work, it doesnt matter if it is GM, Ford, Chrystler, etc.
besides, 5.0L aftermarket is probably still the biggest for modding your engine. you can get a 5.0L N/A to pump out 400hp easilly with a 347 stroker kit and some nice aluminum heads. Add a Supercharger to the equation and you can push that over 500hp and beyond if done correctly.I have been there and done that to dozens of 5.0L's, its a great little engine. And fairly cheep to modify.
Not that i want to put one in any of my Fieros, i like sticking to the same maker as the car. Thats why the only 5.0L V8 engine upgrade i have done is to my Miata
afterall Ford does own 100% of mazda
------------------ -Monkey
[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 06-11-2003).]
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10:58 AM
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Rare87GT Member
Posts: 5086 From: Wichita, KS USA Registered: Oct 2001
You can talk crap on how 5.0's dont perform like 350's or whatever, that's fine. I haven't seen to many 350's do anything that great either. A good built 5.0 with a Supercharger or even like a 50 or 75 shot of Nitrous is capable of doing some real good times. 5.0 stuff is cheap, a ton of parts and aftermarket and I can get the engine very cheap too. A 5.0 would just be something different. You tell me why people put 4.9 Caddy motor in a Fiero? Yeah they are cheap and they make 200hp but that isn't that great if you asked me. No offense at all but a 5.0 makes 225hp ok right? Well add heads, headers, cam, intake, and the normal 5.0 stuff and you have a good 300+ hp motor. There are several 5.0s around town running good times like mid 12's with them. Im just seeing what and if it has been done. I know LS1, LT1's and so forth come out of the box with more HP. But in the end in my experience it has always been the 5.0 getting the best of the 350's and LS1 cars. Later.
First off, yes- the Ford 5.0 is pretty comperable to the SBC 350 (although the SBC has been around longer than the 5.0 and is generally accepted as having the largest aftermarket offerings of any single engine design).
Is it possible to install a Ford 5.0 in a Fiero? Sure, anything is possible with enough cash. But you'd have to ask yourself a pretty specific question. Why?
Assuming that you would want to go through with the project... you'd have to: design, create, & manufacture an adaptor plate. Research the Computer system & determine the easiest/best way to integrate it into the car. Then you'd have to look at what aftermarket performance parts will work for the application (you mentioned headers, & S/C for the 5.0... neither of which would likely fit in the available space of a Fiero without some extreme modifications to the car).
Performance in general. Assuming that you do manage to complete the physical & electrical installation, you'd want to turn to performance. At this level, it really boils down to one thing: Anything you can do to a 5.0, you can also do to a SBC (you mention adding heads, headers, cam, intake, etc - which could all be done to any SBC).
Now, I'd pose another question. Why Not? -keeping GM vs. Ford ridicule aside (which is not something to be ignored): The R&D has already been done on the SBC, and it is found to be a relaible and viable option for a powerplant. Then, do you really want to take the time, effort, and expense to create something that would not likely sell well to the Fiero community? (obviously a 1-off project is an exception this reasoning).
Consider what kind of engine you could build if you took all the additional money from R&D and applied it to the performance of a SBC... If you happen to pick up the current issue of HotRod Magazine, be sure to note the 454cid SBC package that is now available- or consider spending the extra money on an all-aluminum SBC Racing Block... there are a lot of options without reinventing the wheel
So, to summarize: Yes it could be done with enough money, but in the end it would not likely be money well spent.
a reason is the bolt pattern isnt even close to a fiero tranny. another reason, mounts are no way like a SBC and would have to engineer a hell of a mountng system to go on a Fiero cradle, also the oil pan is the other way and i think you might have to take a big chunk out of the engine cradle to fit it. The engine with accessories i belive is a bit longer and would hit the strut tower.So forget completely engineering something for a 5.Slow that may not even work.
Although there is a 5.0 mustang around here that runs 8's although its not really a 5.0 any more but a chevy 383 (only way to get a mustang below 12s )
------------------ --Adam-- 1987 Blue GT 5-speed IM AOL: FieroGT5speed yes im 17 yes this is my first car no im not rich
a reason is the bolt pattern isnt even close to a fiero tranny. another reason, mounts are no way like a SBC and would have to engineer a hell of a mountng system to go on a Fiero cradle, also the oil pan is the other way and i think you might have to take a big chunk out of the engine cradle to fit it. The engine with accessories i belive is a bit longer and would hit the strut tower.So forget completely engineering something for a 5.Slow that may not even work.
Although there is a 5.0 mustang around here that runs 8's although its not really a 5.0 any more but a chevy 383 (only way to get a mustang below 12s )
Adam... sorry, but the physical differences are fairly easy to overcome- that's what the adaptor plate is for (and oil pans can be modified or replaced). Also, the length is a relative variable anyway (heck, LT1's still get bumped over a couple of inches in the engine bay).
As for rippin' on 'stangs. Yeah, I don't like 'em... and would probably never buy one (with the exception of a late-60s models or as a beater). But I do respect them, and they are capable of speed... you just have to know what you're doing (and if you think that dropping in a SBC is the only way, then maybe you should check around a bit more http://www.slowgt.com/ )
Still... it's not something I'd go out of my way to do (see my above opinions for reasoning)
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04:54 PM
jlhuber Member
Posts: 881 From: Hope, MI, USA Registered: Oct 1999
Originally posted by GTFiero1: ...a chevy 383 (only way to get a mustang below 12s )
This is not true. I know of several people in the 11s with a modular (the newer 4.6 sohc in the GTs). One is still N/A too.
Why would I put a Ford 302 in my Fiero? I already have the motor. I want the Ford small block sound. I grew up around Fords, so that is really the majority of what I know. Electrical problems can be cured really quick, its called a carb setup. The main reason I'd do it, to piss people off.
------------------ --Jess-- AIM/YIM: asyferme
If you expect the unexpected, was it really even UNexpected in the first place?
'85 SE, 2.5, 5spd (duke just won't puke, so 350 got sold) '86 SE, 2.8, auto (waiting for red85gt to make a Ford smallblock to Fiero slushbox adapter)
'02 Yamaha R6, blue/white, 3600 miles, LIGHT case of roadrash, for sale. Will accept Fiero(s) and/or parts as PARTIAL trade.
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07:25 PM
GMGW3 Member
Posts: 471 From: West Allis, WI Registered: Dec 2001
Ive owned a 89 Mustang LX with the 5.0 /5 speed w/aftermarket exhaust, drove it for 3 years. It was ok, a pretty peppy car and all but the 5.0 is no "Wonder Motor" Ya,So they can be modded to put out 400HP woopdee doo. You can do the same with a 5.7 SBC and probably more streetable. I dont see the point. BTW I got rid of the Stang when the new LT1 Z28's kept kicking my ass.
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08:02 PM
87FieroGTx Member
Posts: 2630 From: Bath, New York, USA Registered: Jun 2001
I just wanted to know if anyone had tried it. There are a lot of swaps that dont present the most power rating to start out with. There is always potential. Everyone knows of high 11 second N/A Mustangs that weigh around 3400lbs and have bad traction. Just think of that in a Fiero. Yeah its a Ford Motor, a 350 is better yadayadayayada. All I am saying is Mustangs can be fast very easily, cheaply. Yeah the swap may cost a lot of money but it still has potential. I just wanted to hear some opinions and if anyone had tried it. Something to definitely to look into. It would be something totally unique to hear a 5.0 engine's exhaust coming from a Fiero's backend Very interesting topic.
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05:28 AM
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
(although the SBC has been around longer than the 5.0 and is generally accepted as having the largest aftermarket offerings of any single engine design).
this may be arguable, the 302 block has been used by ford since the late 60's, and there is practicly No difference between my 69 mustang 302 block and the 93 5.0L 302 block in my miata. and i do believe the aftermarket is questionably as big or bigger than the sbc 350 market.
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:
Is it possible to install a Ford 5.0 in a Fiero? Sure, anything is possible with enough cash. But you'd have to ask yourself a pretty specific question. Why?
i thought it was someone looking for something unique to do. i would say a 5.0 in a fiero would have to be exactly that, iv'e never heard of one.
The aftermarket parts for a 5.0 are significantly cheeper.
The 5.0 is lighter than a SBC 350.
The Fuel injection system is easilly 50% easier to work on/remove an a 5.0 vs sbc 350(obviously this doesnt count for carb motors
5.0 motors are smaller than 350's, making mods and maintainance easier when working in the fiero engine bay.
Flowmaster has smaller mufflers designed specificly for the 5.0
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:
Assuming that you would want to go through with the project... you'd have to: design, create, & manufacture an adaptor plate. Research the Computer system & determine the easiest/best way to integrate it into the car.
Hey, someone had to take a leap and make the kit to install a V8
the same thing had to be done for the 3800.
And im sure back then, someone could generate a monstor list of why not to make a 3800 kit because the 350 had "already been done" and "has less HP than the sbc 350"
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:
Then you'd have to look at what aftermarket performance parts will work for the application (you mentioned headers, & S/C for the 5.0... neither of which would likely fit in the available space of a Fiero without some extreme modifications to the car).
having installed several kenny belle S/C on 5.0l's in mazda miatas, i can safely say that there is [Significantly] less room in a miata for this than a fiero, and yet it still fits.
besides, how many SBC 350 fiero owners have had to butcher their hoods to fit a N/A sbc 350 in their fieros?
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:
Performance in general. Assuming that you do manage to complete the physical & electrical installation, you'd want to turn to performance. At this level, it really boils down to one thing: Anything you can do to a 5.0, you can also do to a SBC (you mention adding heads, headers, cam, intake, etc - which could all be done to any SBC).
try watching the GT2-GT3 class races on TV back (late 80's-early 90's) when the 5.0l was still the mustang powerplant?
1-2 place was always either a 5.0 mustang or an acura integra, the vette's and camaros/firebirds did not win many of these races and still dont. These are cars with extremely close engine mods. now ill admit that they are in different weighted cars, etc. but it is a rough example that i think proves what the motor is capable of.
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:
Now, I'd pose another question. Why Not? -keeping GM vs. Ford ridicule aside (which is not something to be ignored): The R&D has already been done on the SBC, and it is found to be a relaible and viable option for a powerplant. Then, do you really want to take the time, effort, and expense to create something that would not likely sell well to the Fiero community? (obviously a 1-off project is an exception this reasoning).
again, someone had to take a leap on the 3800 and 350.
as far as reliable. there is a street legal 86 mustang that goes to the drag races regularly at the san diego qualcom stadium monthly drags, two months ago he pulled his first 10 sec 1/4 mile. i have talked with the owner a few times, he bought the car new, and has never blown his engine in that time. albieght he only has 55k miles on it, but he is likely a bit over 500hp at the rear wheels to get into the 10's.
I would call that pretty reliable.
quote
Originally posted by MinnGreenGT:
Consider what kind of engine you could build if you took all the additional money from R&D and applied it to the performance of a SBC... If you happen to pick up the current issue of HotRod Magazine, be sure to note the 454cid SBC package that is now available- or consider spending the extra money on an all-aluminum SBC Racing Block... there are a lot of options without reinventing the wheel
So, to summarize: Yes it could be done with enough money, but in the end it would not likely be money well spent.
yes, it may prove more cost effective to stick with the 350, but there are a lot of 3800 fiero owners that are likely very happy that someone else took the plunge first instead of them. i am willing to gamble that if someone attempted a 5.0l in a fiero, that enough other people would be willing to pay for a kit to do the same to their car.
i can see a lot of 5.0 enthusiasts in this thread.
i bet that enough people would buy a 5.0 kit to cover the cost of the entire original expense, and perhaps a little extra.
and that, i think is something unique. how many of us out there can say we gambled, put a little money into some crazy new mod for our own personal car, and had it payback for itself because others wanted to do what you did.....
------------------ -Monkey
EDIT: for spelling and a P.S.
If i had a choice of V8 kits, i would go for the 350 rather than the 5.0. I am an anal tard when it comes to sticking with the same manufacturer. Besides, when i do my first engine mod, its going to be a 3800 S/C II
i still stand behind all i posted above
[This message has been edited by FieroMonkey (edited 06-12-2003).]
The swap has been done. It was done by some female. Check the archives. Anyway she had this swap done. She has stopped posting on this forum (about the time I joined) because some narrow-minded people herassed her as to why she would ever do something like this. She also has power steering. I dont understand why if you dont like it you got to insult it. I thought about the 302. I own one. I would drive the 302 car anywhete. I own to Fieros I wouldnt drive them down the block without expecting to push it back home.
Rare go for it. My 302 runs circles around my Fiero engines. Always runs. Smokes the tires on command.
------------------ If you find my advice useful please rate me. 87 GT ------------------------ 88 4cyl 5spd Home Page
I say dont do it, a Pegasus and a Mustang should never mate... you would wind up with a Mule that has wings, unreliable and impotent but looks good when you tickle the wings a bit.
Way to go! That's the kind of post I like to see in these types of discussions!
Just a few things... as for age, the SBC was initially used in mid-50's Chevys. The early SBC blocks (like the 60's Ford vs. 5.0) share many design elements and even some parts. So really... "age" of the design is somewhat a moot point.
As for availability of aftermarket. My statement of the SBC having the "largest" aftermarket was a quote from a HotRod publication of some sort (sorry I can't nail down a specific source).
Size/weight issues: Physical size I'm unaware of (although from what I previously understood, the SBF was a larger physical structure). Weight is a variable easily changed (through the use of aluminum heads and other lightweight parts - even the option of an aluminum block).
Cost, etc: I have no reason to keep up with the cost of 5.0 aftermarket parts - so I can't reasonably make a statement one way or another As for flowmaster making mufflers designed specifically for the 5.0 - stuff like that goes both ways...
As for comparing the installation of a 3800 to Ford 5.0 - those are truly beasts of a completely different sort. The 3800 shares the bolt pattern with the Fiero tranny - no adaptor plate needed. The 3800 was designed for use in FWD applications - which are more easily adapted to Mid/Rear applications like the Fiero. And the computer controls & sensors were designed & produced by the same company, therefore it could be assumed that there are more-compatible connections & sensors. The 3800 (as with the Quad4, the 3.4 TDC, the 4.9L V8, and the N*) were just more-logical progressions.
Miata space vs. Fiero space: again, I can't comment because my only experience with a Miata was borrowing my boss's to go pick him up some coffee. Although if I'm ever in the area I'll be sure to hit you up for a ride in your V8 beast But your comment about V8 Fiero owners needing to butcher their decklid to fit a N/A SBC... doesn't really have any supporting evidence.
'Stangs, Integras, Vettes, Camaros in old racing series: I had little to no interest in that kind of racing at that time... and as you said, there was/is a weight difference being dealt with there.
On Fast Stangs: you point & counter-pointed my post nicely, but missed my follow up post- which included this:
quote
But I do respect them, and they are capable of speed... you just have to know what you're doing (and if you think that dropping in a SBC is the only way, then maybe you should check around a bit more http://www.slowgt.com/ )
quote
by Fieromonkey: i am willing to gamble that if someone attempted a 5.0l in a fiero, that enough other people would be willing to pay for a kit to do the same to their car.
i can see a lot of 5.0 enthusiasts in this thread.
i bet that enough people would buy a 5.0 kit to cover the cost of the entire original expense, and perhaps a little extra.
Sorry, but I'm not the betting type- and the odds on that one just aren't quite good enough for me. But, I would certainly like to see someone willing to stick their neck out on it - and see what could be accomplished! One last thing... if it did happen, and someone did produce a kit for it- it would almost instantly loose it's uniqueness
ls3mach- I've been around a bit longer than you... and don't recall ever seeing/reading anything about a 5.0 installed in a Fiero. AND I can't seem to locate anything on it in the archives (although I'm still digging)... can you provide a link?
383 stroker kit for 350: $1099.95 347 stroker kit for 5.0: $1479.95
Trick Flow offers 2 different aluminum cylinder heads for SBC, 1 for 5.0 Edelbrock offers 3 differnt cylinder heads for SBC, 2 for 5.0 World offers 2 for SBC, 1 for 5.0
Keith black has 9 different pistons for 350 and two for 302. 31 total fo SBC, 6 total for SBF. Ross has 16 total for SBC and 5 total for SBF
all prices from Summit, Jegs has very simliar prices
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04:08 PM
NSAN1T Member
Posts: 698 From: Marble Falls, Texas, USA Registered: Mar 2002
I don't have a GM motor to put in my Fiero's, other than one of the many 2.5s I have or can get... Other than that, my V* dreaming is limited to finding a SBC somewhere thats COMPLETE and ready to roll. As seeing that I no longer have the time and money to completely rebuild a motor AND build the brackets or buy the brackets to swap it in my car.. Now if archie offered a payment plan for his kit, I'd be singin a different song. But as it sits now... I already have a complete motor. 80s Ford 308 racing block with 351 heads, and a few other goodies. Itsready to drop into something... But the only things I have to put it in are one of my Fieros or my 78 xcab longbed F150. As much as I'd love to put it in the truck, My fieros see more drive time than the old truck does... So seeing that i already have a running motor and dont need to go out and buy one and rebuild it whatever to get it up to the 375hp mark that mines at without paying for any of it.. I have seriously considered it...
1) Its a V8. 2) Its got HP that I dont have in my car right now 3)it doesnt need to be hooked up to a comp. so i dont need to hack up my wiring much. 4) I dont give a d@mn if it is a Ford versus GM thing or not. Its my motor, my car, theyre both paid for, I'm the only one driving it, if you dont like it, thats your business, not mine.
Sorry, got carried away.. I really dont see what the fuss is about mixing stuff... I've used ford parts on chevys, chevy parts on fords, dodge parts on internationals... it dont make a difference unless your trying to keep something stock or just want to stay along the same lines... other wise.. Why put a Chevy motor in your Pontiac?? Why not use only Pontiac parts?? because its the same basic motor.. well a motor is a motor right? nothing different about them except the cars theyre in and the way the owner treats them.. and few hundered misc. parts
^^^^ Exactly, sorta, its nothing but Iron, a 350 block is made out of the same iron a 302 block is made of, the only thing different, one has GM stamped on it, the other has Ford stamped on it, hell why not stick the 302 in it, melt off the ford castings, and Stamp GM on it
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11:25 PM
PFF
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Jun 13th, 2003
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
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