quote Originally posted by Old Lar: No stock Fiero sold to the general public came with power steering!

That is not correct, I sold Pontiacs for 40 years and for a very short time in 88 you could special order power steering on the Fiero. I sold 4 Fieros with the factory ELECTRIC / mechanical power steering. All of those cars were recalled and the power steering was removed from 2 of the ones we sold. I kept one that I won as a sales award, a red t-top gt (which I sold to a forum member about a year ago) and the other one was a yellow t-top formula. In order to make it easier to sell the 84 -87 Fieros we fitted them with a kit that was sold to us by Zimmer which was a conventional power steering pump and rack. We also sold t-tops from 85 to 87 and they were all installed by C&C. We would order the car and it would be taken from the factory to C&C and then delivered to our dealership (Packer Pontiac)in Miami on the same truck with the other Fieros. The rarest option in 88 was lumbar on the drivers seat, which was not available with leather. However we had a customer that ordered both and we took the seats to Masters and had them put factory leather covers on the seats. Later on the air bags for the lumbar would rot and we replaced several seats with non lumbar and threw out the lumbars seats.

I think that people like to believe that because a car brought different equipment it is rare. However it does not necessarily make it desirable, when the yellow GTs started coming in we had two that we could not give away because no one wanted the color. As soon as it was announced that the Fiero would no longer be produced they were sold because I told the buyers that it was a rare color. However the best selling color is bright red, this is why most 84s were bright red and they sold like hotcakes! The only time an a rarely optioned car becomes more desirable is when the options are performance oriented.

i cant bel;ive with all the fiero guru's on here and someone hasent figured it out yet,
it would HAVE to be the Bright red 87 with only 2 bieng made, and 1 of them was raffeled off in some Coke contest or somthing, so that would be the rarest fiero wouldnt it !?!?!?

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Rich
97 Eclipse GS-T not stock
92 325i-- intake, exhaust, and suspension
White 86 SE V6-- WCF 2" drop springs, coil-overs, KYb's

quote Originally posted by Chief: That is not correct, I sold Pontiacs for 40 years and for a very short time in 88 you could special order power steering on the Fiero. I sold 4 Fieros with the factory ELECTRIC / mechanical power steering. All of those cars were recalled and the power steering was removed from 2 of the ones we sold. I kept one that I won as a sales award, a red t-top gt (which I sold to a forum member about a year ago) and the other one was a yellow t-top formula.

Thanks for sharing that information. So if two power steering cars survived through your dealership and there were thousands of dealerships then the might be a lot of 88s with power steering out there. I will have to look a lot closer at 88s in the yard when and if I find them.

Could you give us your impression of driving the cars with power steering verses non power steering cars. Thanks

Red 88 GT T-Top 3800 Supercharged
White 88 GT Stock
Please give me a rating if you appreciate my contribution.

[This message has been edited by skitime (edited 03-24-2003).]

Hello Skitime, I love what you have done to your car. The Fiero was always in need of power steering and anyone that has it will tell you that it is a joy to drive and park. The fact that it was not an option cost us many sales, especially with women. When the Indy came out the biggest complaint was that it was very hard to park the car due to the steering effort with the wider tires. Sadly there are very few cars with factory power steering. Almost all of the power steering units were taken off the cars due to liability issues. The only time they were not removed was when the customer had already taken delivery of the vehicle and did not want it removed. In those cases we offered to replace the units with the earlier non electric units or we gave a full refund. One of the cars was mine and I refused, the other car (a yellow t-top formula) never replied to the notice. The same Electro mechanical power steering unit (made by Saginaw) was used in the "EV", however the rack is different. You may also be interested in the fact that Pontiac parts offered side scoops early in the model years (I bought a few sets) and an electric water pump in 88, however I never saw one. I did buy the Fiero luggage, jacket and other non sense items but I sold all my Fiero paraphernalia with my car.

[This message has been edited by Chief (edited 03-24-2003).]

The 'factory' T-top argument comes into so many threads.. haha

General Motors contracted C&C to do a certain number of T-top Fieros. Those are the ones with the RPO code and those are the ones that are 'factory'. The rest were contracted by dealers or individuals and GM had no hand in it. Those are 'aftermarket'. The General doesn't make tires either, but a certain tire is considered to be the factory tire for a car. Almost any industry outsources and contracts. And only the parts that they officially contract are considered factory options... We've always said that ANY T-top is fun, just not always factory.

John, how did you find out about the different number of 88 T-top coupes? I know you've been rsearching this. Just wondering how you found the difference. I've always heard and seen 91 as well. That does change things a bit.

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Cheif - thanks for the additional information. Did you ever take any pictures of the power steeering unit. If so could you post them. You said the EV units were the same. Is this unit available to the public?

I never took pictures of just the power steering unit because until recently I was not aware that it was that rare. The person that bought my car is the one that explained to me that very few survived. This is the main reason he bought my car as he has another one that has even lower miles(8, mine had 13). The EV units were available trough GM parts, you will need the 88 rack with power steering and it is no longer available, Rodney has one. These pictures were eposted by Rodney:
http://www.gmev.com/ http://members.shaw.ca/jamestownsend/pwrsteer.jpg

[This message has been edited by Chief (edited 03-24-2003).]

Wow! I haven't seen this post in a long while, OK to answer your questions:
Songman, I always get a laugh to myself, when someone at the Fiero Nationals or any Fiero event and they rattle off "Yeah, they only made 614GT's, 547 Formulas and 91 Basic coupes" I used to tell these people time and time again,that they had been misinformed, but people never want to here that. So I just gave up and they will all see the documentation when my book comes out. As for where or when I got the real stats? 1992 from C&C, Oh yeah forgot to tell you 339 (ship-thru)T-tops for basic coupe in 1988 were made.
Next I just wanted to reply to "CHEIF" and I am not trying to disrespect. I agree 100% about your statement that "the only time an rarely optioned car becomes more desirable is when the options are performance oriented" besides the color.
BUT that was more so, in the 60's and early 70's,(don't get me wrong) performance still matters as rarety, like the Buick Grand National, Firehawk, 89 Pace Car Trans-am, But with engine becoming more and more the same in the 80's and 90's and not putting out performance cars as production cars by ALL the different "Car Makers" like in the 60's and 70's, other options became the more rarer options collectors began looking for which was the "Roof Styles", convertibles, t-tops, solid roof and hatch backs, examples:

Pontiacs 2+2 / Monte Carlo in "86" big bubble glass hatch back
T-top in the Olds Hurst in 80's,
Trans-am FLAT hatch back on the GTA in the late 80's
Trans-am solid roof or t-top in the "89" Trans-am pace car
Trans-am solid roof, convertible, or t-top in the "94" Anniversary Trans-am

AND it will continue that way into the future, just look at the 2002 Trans-am limited edition in yellow, convertible or t-top. Convertible of course is rarer and they meaning (Pontiac) told you in advance that they would make less convertibles then t-roofs! Making it more desirable, but the same car just 2 different roof styles!

So I'm just pointing out what collectors and even (Pontiac now) are going towards, so I see that the "roof option" on the fiero will be very important option, besides the color and will be something collectors will be looking for in the future. Thank you

[This message has been edited by FIERO JOHN-WI (edited 03-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by FIERO JOHN-WI (edited 03-24-2003).]

[This message has been edited by FIERO JOHN-WI (edited 03-25-2003).]

One addition to your comments, John - the Aerocoupe Monte Carlos are not actually hatcbacks. They just have a big back window for aerodynamic purposes. The window does not open. And the trunk lid is so small that the trunk is actually almost worthless for anything larger than a grocery bag. The windows are actually a Caprice window which is flipped upside down. C&C built these cars too. I wish I could find some information on these cars from C&C the way we have the Fieros. I have an Aerocoupe but absolutely no documentation on it.

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: i believe an 88 silver formula CJB T-top 5-speed is the rarest one.

Hey Adam , you may only have 15 miles on the odometer in the last year , but you have been doing your homework during that time .

Galen Smith
Red 85 Sport Coupe
Founder of Suncoast Fiero Club
Florida Fiero Council

Thanks "songman" I didn't know what they actually call it, so I just called it that, but I'm sure hopefully people knew what I meant (you did), I hope that my explaination made sense to alot of people, I was just pointing out the direction in witch collectors seem to be going.

In reply to FIERO JOHN-WI: 1974 trough 1990 was one of the worst periods for performance and styling for the big three. This is reflected in the resale value and lack of interest in mass produced cars of this period. It also makes these cars very affordable in today’s market. They are the major reason that the muscle cars that preceded them have become so valuable. Simply put people wanted performance and were willing to pay for it. The high performance of the older muscle cars was not offered in the anemic cars that were produced from 1974 to 1990, so older muscle car prices went up. This is a fact that is constantly proven at all major car auctions. Now take into consideration that new cars are being mass produced with more horsepower, better handling, more amenities, and reliability not to mention warrantees than have ever been available before. What is the incentive to purchase 1989 Trans am pace car for $30,000 when you can buy a $20,000 225 hp Neon that will outperform it. If you are thinking that the 1974 trough 1990 cars will become classics, let me tell you from experience that only a select few cars reach that status and other than unique cars like the Fiero, the time period in question here only offers a handful of contenders. Of this handful few will be as memorable as the cars that have already achieved a "classic" status and none will be able to match the performance or styling that came before and after this dark automotive era. Now to throw a monkey wrench into this rare Fiero post, it was rumored in 1984 that one of the pace cars (which was a package assembled by a company in Canada, I forget the name) was a V-6 4 speed no a/c delivered in Canada. It was also rumored that the number of pace cars was not limited to 2000 and that hundreds more were made than the advertised figure. Oh yeah one more thing, map pockets were very rare in those cars.

Cheif, it sounds to me that we are of the same view points and that the muscle cars of the 60's and early 70's will never be matched and as we stated only a select few from the 80's and 90's will become collector cars will they ever command the dollars of the muscle car era, "not that much" but only time will tell, NOTE: It's only worth what someone is willing to pay!

I have a indy with out AC

quote Originally posted by 007DOUG: The 84 Indy built without A/C. I don't have numbers, I know of only three. I can't imagine there being many others.

Ok I may sound dumb..But what is a Mera??

quote Originally posted by Seanpaul: Ok I may sound dumb..But what is a Mera??

http://www.fiero.net/mera/

quote Originally posted by FIERO JOHN-WI: Thanks "songman" I didn't know what they actually call it, so I just called it that, but I'm sure hopefully people knew what I meant (you did), I hope that my explaination made sense to alot of people, I was just pointing out the direction in witch collectors seem to be going.

I agree with you totally, John... and with chief... I sold a PHS-documented Ram Air IV Judge and a 69 Firebird convertible within about 6 months of each other a couple of years ago. Right now, I love all my toys but I miss my 60s muscle!

About these one off cars. My Fiero has the Interior Mis-Match code, I notice that my stereo is simmilar to the ones that are shown in the manual, but not the same as any listed, as far as control locations, also, a strip of fabric in my drivers seat is a darker shade of grey than the rest of the seats. Also my interior is white and grey, where the interior is dark grey on every other fiero I have seen, it is white on mine, except for the dash. My arm rest, door trim, and some other parts of my interior is white, same with my headliner.

As far as silver 86SE 4Cyl being rare, there is one that has a siezed motor, and an auto for sale here, but it does not have the aero nose, nor says SE on the quarter windows.

I would think the first Fiero is the rarest, as only one was ever produced .

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Thanks,
Ben E-Farrer

I too own a 4spd indy without A/C... actually ive never seen an indy with slushbox or A/C so what the hell do i know.

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Email: adriantalliss@email.com
1984 Indy Fiero 4spd 3.4L
-est 240hp, centerforce clutch, carbed but switching to injection, factory 4.10 4 spd, 17" white konigs, all interior leather changed to white, custom built aluminum rear wing, supertrapp exhaust (for sale!) corvette master brake cylinder, coil over suspension, more info to follow...

Doesn't 007-doug, have a pace car with 4-speed and no AC, as well