Are you aware of the fact that there is not enough clearance between the flexplate and Getrag transmission with the use of your modified fiero flywheel? I'm sure that you already know that with all of your "experience" but why is this information not passed down to those you pay for your services to modify a flywheel. This has cost me a lot of money! Also, it was not match balanced like you advertise. And yes, you did offer to let me send it back to you to have it rebalanced, but after it wiped out my bearings, trans, and main seals, I DON'T TRUST YOUR BUSINESS! I had it checked out by a very good machine shop and had them look at the flywheel and gave me suggestions on what to do. Is all I can say, is that you have lied to me, and I have e-mail proof!

I have to post this cause I feel that I have been burned big time and don't want it to happen to others.

Thanks,
Eric

Sorry to hear about your problems, Eric. I hope you get everything worked out ok. I'm a bit confused, though. You said there isn't enough clearance between the flexplate and the tranny with their flywheel. Flexplate? I assume you mean there isn't enough clearance between their flywheel and the tranny? Flexplates aren't used on a stick.

A clearance issue is a major PITA, but it sounds like the big problem was the balancing issue. That doesn't sound good at all. If you can prove it was caused by WCF parts or workmanship, maybe they'll reimburse you for the damage? I hope they work it out to your satisfaction.

Good luck.

Eric - throwing slander around here out for thousands of people to see is a very unprofessional way of dealing with the current situation. We sat here and talked and emailed and attempted to make everything right with your situation. The flywheel was matched balanced, why would we send out a part that would intentionally destroy an engine - think about it.

Your situation was that you had your engine internals balanced and blueprinted while we were in possesion of your flywheel. If this machine shop of yours was so inclined as you give us the impression of such, they would know that the only way to properly balance the internals is with the flexplate/flywheel attached to the rotating assembly.

We can argue here for hours but the simple fact remains that of course you will instinctively trust a shop that is within physical distance of you, versus a shop that is on the other side of this great nation due to the fact that you have never met us - in fact it is quite amazing that those that have problems with us are those that have never met us if I might add, try asking opinions about us from those that know us personnaly, and those that we have helped in dire situations.

And lets look att your project:

your mating an engine to a car that was never officially intended

your going through the internals of above said engine, expecting world renound expectations from balancing the internals - and doing so without thy flywheel ( thats a big hot rod no-no, but I'm sure you and your shop knew that )

your completely kicking the nuts of WCF, after holding your hand through this whole ordeal as we help you out with this situation.

Simple fact remains, this is a big slap in the face from someone we have grown to appreciate as a valued customer - however we are still, and always will be here to resolve this issue

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Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

Sorry about the mentioning of the flexplate... I meant the pressure plate.

This is not slander... it's the truth and I am sharing my experiences. WCF, you did want to help, by giving me the option to send back the flywheel for you to take another look at it. There is a problem with that, The first time TOOK OVER 5 MONTHS!!!! With lies in the emails from you about where it is and what's going on with it. No slander here at all buddy!

can you please explain what we lied about?

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Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

Eric...

Hey, we understand your frustration.. I'm sure a lot of people have had situations they felt this way about with many businesses.

But you could of sent a PM or e-mail, to clear this up. A lot of times problems are just misunderstandigs, not personal vendettas by the vendor.

The forum has been overrun with flame posts as of late. This was addresed by Cliff, so I think it was a big issue.

I run a business myself, and know that most customer problems can be solved by listening and understanding. NOT public bashing! OK???

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1988 Formula 2.8L V6 5 speed Getrag
(Runs smooth, shifts crisp, stored winters, red and shiny all over!)

I can post the emails or send them to you later, your choice. Didn't want for this post to come out as bad as it did, but only the truth from my words typed here. The engine was setup to be balanced fine to the stock flexplate. I was told, and as advertised that the FIero flywheel would be match balanced to the original flexplate. If you where to look at the modified flywheel, you would see that there was no modification to it besides the welded shut holes and redrilled for the 3.8 crank. This of course was going to be sent back to WCF to have the balancing rechecked. Another problem, there is not enough clearance for this modded flywheel with the 3.8 and Getrag trans. My fault for this since I didn't research it enough, but with your experience and providing such a service it would have made sense that there wouldn't be such a problem. Maybe it was your first one for that engine, but there was two evident problems. 1) Flywheel was not MATCHED BALANCED to the original flexplate. If it was there wouldn't have been the balance problem. I don't buy, the engine wasn't balanced to our flywheel bit. You where to match balance it to the original. How, I don't know because it has got to be hard to do correctly. Visually there was no metal at all taken or added to balance it. Yes you could maybe get it close by lining up the balance weights from the flexplate to the flywheel, but I could have done that.
2) There was a clearance problem, luckily it was just aluminum. I'll take blame on this for my lack of research, maybe you knew of this problem, maybe not. I would think if you did know, then yes I would think that you are providing flywheels to ruin engines.

Eric

quote Originally posted by Eric_PA: I would think that you are providing flywheels to ruin engines. Eric

That makes a whole lot of sense Eric. Why in the world would a business want to do that?

I know nothing of your intentions with this flywheel dilemma, or of your dealings with WCF but you have certainly gone about this the WRONG way. To publicly bash a company for mistakes you made is despicable. I've been to WCF and met Eric and they seem like very good people providing a product/service that we Fiero enthusiasts across the nation need/appreciate.

You could of handled it a lot better IMOP.
What are you, ten years old?

Sly

SlyGuy
Nex time post the whole quote..

I would think if you did know, then yes I would think that you are providing flywheels to ruin engines.

Now how old?

deep breath in---------------------------------------- hold, count to 10, and exhale -----aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! i dont know about you guyes butt i feel much better

J/K
i hope this is somthing you all can work out

after all if west coast wasnt a repuitable co.
im sure they wouldnt still be in buisness
good luck

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Rich
Sioux Falls SD
Gold 86 SE
98 acura cl 3.0
92 BMW 325i

I drive excitment!!!!
whell, kind of.

I apologize to all who have read this and also to Cliff and WCF. I realize that I should not vent my frustrations on here and maybe to handle things a better way. As far as the problem I had, it's ireversible, and I am sure that WCF would help if they could. There may have been an honest mistake with the product and I should have looked into things a bit more.

Sorry for the waste of bandwidth.

Eric

damn, that sucks. they have worked on my car and i've bought all sorts of products from WCF and they have never killed my car, just made it faster and handle better. i trust them.

Sleeper... dont you work for WCF?

In your profile it reeds: tow truck driver & go to college. i'm also the West Coast Fiero bum !

So wouldn't you have been the one to make your car fast.

Nothing agianst anyone, but take this to PM or e-mail and not on here. Its been to crazy around here and this isnt the place for your problmes with WCF. E-mail, PM or use the phone but this is not the place for it. Period.

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Good call Loki...

I shouldn't have posted any negative info, have to start thinking positive.

This is my last post

Eric

OK, I'm sorry I'm adding to this, but here's my opinion.

I feel if it was a true problem, say WCF not trying to help, then it is something that should be brought to the fiero community's attention. Based on what I read, the poor guy seems highly frustrated about what happened, with good reason. Like many have pointed out though, the balancing should be done with the final engine intact with the intended flywheel. I for one will be putting engine completely together, then adding flywheel or flexplate then have it all taken in and balanced out when I build the 3.2 Vette Viper Killer. Only because I plan on spending about 4K for just the block, I want it all ready to go.

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Interested in a unlimited income Potential?
http://www.my.ws/fr3346514

I disagree with the "not on here" posts. Discouraging anybody from ever posting something negative is not in the best interest of the community. Eric_pa's post stated his opinion of a vendor without too much flaming. WCF replied without too much flaming. The rest of us can just read and make our own decisions.

Eric_pa, thanks for relating your experience.

Didnt mean it like that. Sowwy. First it should be tried to be worked out between them both away from here. PM, e-mail or phone. Does seem some was but maybe not enough. Basically bringing it here would be a last call, if your totally not being helped, then let everyone know. Undertsand?????? Please say yes

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IMO, this post was entirely warranted, at least from Eric's point of view. When I read it, I didn't read someone trying to bash a company, I read someone who's had a bad experience with a company making that experience known so others don't share the same fate. I've done the same when I had my car's alignment screwed up by Merchant's Tire in Raleigh NC.

True, any discussion to solve this should be offline. The only other thing Eric, or WCF should feel the need to post here is how the problem has been resolved. If WCF feels there has been slander, they have a legal recourse in court.

I'm not taking sides here except, as a consumer, I want to praise the companies that do a good job, and when they screw up I want to let the world know that too.

I believe WCF to be a reputible company. I'm sure they will take whatever steps they feel warranted to help correct the problem.

And in the interest of avoiding a flame war, I will not defend or dispute my remarks on this thread.

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"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free" -- Ronald Reagan

I was told not to post to this, but after reading all of the replies, I can't help it. I agree Eric didn't take the best way about this. He should have thought before anything. I actually talked to Eric from WCF today when he called looking for Eric while he was at work. At least they are making an effort. If they weren't doing anything to help, then I could totally understand Eric being so pissed. Actually, I take that back, I still understand Eric being so totally pissed, but as he stated, part of the engine ruining is his fault for not looking into things more. I *DO* believe however he does have a right to post his feelings here. They have done e-mail, they have done phone, and he has also posted before wondering if anyone else had this problem with WCF. Not intending to be a flame at all, but just in curiosity. Maybe his was a freak of nature, or maybe it was just a mistake that couldn't have been avoided for some odd reason. Whatever the fact of the matter is, there is no need for the flaming that is going on by anyone here. I don't agree with name calling, or "age" calling as slyguy likes to do. None if it is appropriate or needed. Some guy had a bad experience, wanted to rant and rave about it for a little bit (and you can't tell me that none of you have ever not done it, or wanted to do it but didn't) to people he hoped or thought might understand. I have seen other people on this forum do it, so it's not just one guy who is out to get kicked off the forum. I'm trying to take it from an un-biased opinion here, but these are just all my thoughts.

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For those of you who don't know, yes I'm crazy.
~~~~~
1988 Coupe 4 cyl.
0-infinity in 2 seconds flat

quote in fact it is quite amazing that those that have problems with us are those that have never met us if I might add, try asking opinions about us from those that know us personnaly, and those that we have helped in dire situations.

No, I don't think that's amazing at all, I'm quite sure it's the truth. I'm not sure I'd be proud to say that. It's too bad a guy has to live down the street from WCF to get good service. A five to six month wait for a part that is common to you guys is absolutely ridiculous. Outright lies about what is taking so long is even worse (One week it's out getting ballanced, and the next week it's waiting to go out to get ballanced). Even if one could get over those two issues, sending a part that does not function as advertised, and causes fairly major damage (destroyed Getrag and damaged engine) just tops it off. Wether the engine was ballanced or not, something should have been done to the ballance of the flywheel. If the flywheel was set up for 3800 ballance, some weight would have needed to be changed, either moved, added, or subtracted. If it had been set up for a ballanced engine, it should have been neutrally ballanced by removing the cast in flyweight. The flyweight of the 2.8 flywheel was untouched. No weight added, none removed. The center bushing was the correct diameter, but stuck out ~3/16" from the bolt head surface, preventing the bolt heads from even contacting the flywheel. WTF is that all about?!. It appears as though it was sent out unfinished. Maybe another six months would produce a finished part? Nothing was said or done about the possibility of the clutch cover hitting the trans case even though WCF knows of this problem (it is documented in threads on this very forum).

I can tell you, Eric feels really bad about ever posting this topic. I can understand why, and I'm sure he'll take a lot of flack for it. BUT, I happen to know that there are several other people who have had problems and never say anything for just this reason. At very least, I think WCF should review their business practices, and maybe hire a secratary to keep things in order. Such delays and poor service are completely unacceptable.

Well said rockcrawl...

I had a customer service training at my work a few months ago. The woman who ran the seminar said that for every satisfied client you have, in turn they will tell 3 other people about how they got treated.
For every unsatisfied client you have, they will tell anywhere from 11-23 people every year how they were treated. You figure out the damage.

quote Originally posted by West Coast Fiero: And lets look at your project: your mating an engine to a car that was never officially intended

Oh, and he's the first one to do this? Don't give us this

your going through the internals of above said engine, expecting world renound expectations from balancing the internals - and doing so without thy flywheel ( thats a big hot rod no-no, but I'm sure you and your shop knew that

*YOU* were supposed to match balance the flywheel, which unless you have advanced technology is next to impossible, but I'm sure you and your shop know that

your completely kicking the nuts of WCF, after holding your hand through this whole ordeal as we help you out with this situation.

Holding his hand? Thats a bunch of also. As you can tell by my previous post, I am trying so hard to take an unbiased opinion on this, but here is what I see going on. You figure, "okay, this guy is mad, so I can lie and say I did everything I could to help him and no one can disprove it." Well he has many people who have seen what happened to his engine, and know of his goings about with you, and know that he didn't recieve anywhere near good customer service that such a reputable shop should live by.

Simple fact remains, this is a big slap in the face from someone we have grown to appreciate as a valued customer - however we are still, and always will be here to resolve this issue

Someone you have grown to appreciate as a valued customer? He came to you once, you totally ignored him and lied to him, you knew right off the bat that he wasn't happy with how long it took him to get the flywheel back, and you sit here and "claim" him as a "valued customer"????????

[This message has been edited by Springtyme (edited 01-15-2002).]

Nevermind..... that sucks Eric..
Chris

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Check out my site at: www.customdynamix.com
Turbo Q4 GT Project

[This message has been edited by MoneypitGT (edited 01-14-2002).]

I do not think it wrong for one to challenge a company if they have problems that are not being resolved. I also thought this is one of the things this Web Site is about, Helping other Fiero Fanatics with Fiero related problems no matter what they may be. I am not one to judge, but I gaurantee that if and when something like this happens to you(God Forbid)at some point of time if you are not getting answers that are satisfactory to you...chances are you will do the same thing in one way or another looking for some kinda of help in resolving the problems or issues.
Personally I make my own decisions about a company or person I am going to do business with based on my background research I do myself (I do not like giving money away)
This being said, and of course this is only my opinion based on everything I have observed and read about WCF. In my mind right now they would not be my first choice, (I am not saying I think they are a bad company !!)
Mainly because this is by far not the first complaint I have heard or read on this sight as well as others. Granted they also have allot of pats on the back also, not to offend anyone but if you take the time to read ALL the post both good and bad you will find most of the defenders are always the same people. Like I said this is ONLY MY opinions. But if I where looking for any of the services they supply this is how and the type of info I would look at before spending my hard earned money. This goes for any business that I am personally going to deal with. You can be the best out there but you are going to have to prove it to me as an individual customer.

eric even if the flyweel was "SUPPOSED" to be ballanced any crackhead would have known to re-check the balance before putting it al together and running it ..theirfore i dont believe it was WCF fault ..im not taking anyones side here but....DUAH

WCF, just to let you know, I plan on purchasing a Flowmaster muffler from you guys soon. This thread does not affect my decision to do business with you. I base my OWN opinions. This is probably Eric's fault, but who knows, maybe it is WCF's, I'm not one to judge. I'm sure that WCF makes fine quality products or else WCF wouldn't have lasted more than a month.

I am looking forward to doing business with you.

------------------

Dan
1985 Silver GT

LT1 Coming Soon.....

quote Originally posted by fldevel: eric even if the flyweel was "SUPPOSED" to be ballanced any crackhead would have known to re-check the balance before putting it al together and running it ..theirfore i dont believe it was WCF fault ..im not taking anyones side here but....DUAH

This is the best one yet. Why would someone pay for something TWICE? I'm sure you have the equipment at home to "Recheck the balance of a flywheel" !?!? I just went thru a rebuild myself recently and I would be LIVID if this would have happened to me. Luckily I found a local machine shop to do the work for me. Sorry to hear about your trouble Eric.

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Modified 2.8
2.5" Drop
11" Brakes
17" Revolutions
RCC Coilover Suspension

quote Originally posted by West Coast Fiero: And lets look att your project: your mating an engine to a car that was never officially intended

And your flywheel for 3800 conversions will only work on a stock 2.8, then, right? What is it you're trying to say here? Yeah, mating an engine to a car that was never officially intended - using West Coast Fiero products that are designed to allow you to do that. I must have missed your point here.

If I bought a V8 Archie flywheel, and it didn't fit with my 350 and Getrag, and he tried to tell me that's because a 350 was never intended for a Fiero, can you imagine the flaming he would get? I'm breaking out in a sweat just thinking about it.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-15-2002).]

I havnt had any problems with WCF there parts seem to be really nice for me, you should have posted this in 0/t or pm. Just my 0.02. randy Ill be ordering a dual throttle body setup from them when they get them done.

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17 year old with a rally car, full roll cage, skid plates, light bars, scs suspension, koni adjusters

OK, obviously I worded everything wrong. However, point being that this issue mainly concerns Eric and WCF. This problem is being dealt with at this time and there is no need for further, intended, or planned flamming, scandal, or arguments.

------------------

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

I have to agree, Eric. I hope you guys work everything out so everyone comes out happy.

Sure is nice seeing people try to avoid a flame war rather than throw gas on the flames. I'll use this thread as an example to others on how to avoid a flame war next time I see one brewing.

Take care!

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"We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we may always be free" -- Ronald Reagan

ERIC, just thought of something, your engine isn't by chance a 95. That was the only year of the Series 1's that has a completely different flywheel counterweight issue than any other year. A 95 came Nuetral balanced, and should not have any counterweight on the flywheel at all, as it is internally balanced. Let me know as I may be onto something here..........

------------------

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

quote Originally posted by fldevel: eric even if the flyweel was "SUPPOSED" to be ballanced any crackhead would have known to re-check the balance before putting it al together and running it ..theirfore i dont believe it was WCF fault ..im not taking anyones side here but....DUAH

This is one of the stupidest comments I've seen in a while. I'm not going to debate the topic of this thread because I don't know the details, but SHOW ME ONE PERSON WHO CAN CHECK THE BALANCING OF THEIR FLYWHEEL AT HOME!!!

I've had my engine rebuilt last year. I had the shop tell me what kind of flywheel I need (neutrally balanced) and I purchased one per their instructions. Yes, the SELLER or THE SHOP must know this info - end of story.

------------------

Seems to me that WCF has a popularity issue. They won't even ackknowledge any one of my questions, of which I may have been a potential customer. I've seen all the flack that WCF has giving Archie numerous times. This is a perfectly ligitimate complaint from a customer who recieved a product that was defective, and destroyed his engine. Sure WCF should take some responsibility, their parts made his engine break. IMO, WCF has horrible customer service, and it's all a popularity contest with them. Then when something goes wrong, blames it on somebody else. We've all seen this before. And it probably won't change.

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0-60 6.9 seconds

quote Originally posted by West Coast Fiero: ERIC, just thought of something, your engine isn't by chance a 95. That was the only year of the Series 1's that has a completely different flywheel counterweight issue than any other year. A 95 came Nuetral balanced, and should not have any counterweight on the flywheel at all, as it is internally balanced. Let me know as I may be onto something here..........

No, his engine is a 90.

quote Originally posted by kempo: Seems to me that WCF has a popularity issue. They won't even ackknowledge any one of my questions, of which I may have been a potential customer. I've seen all the flack that WCF has giving Archie numerous times. This is a perfectly ligitimate complaint from a customer who recieved a product that was defective, and destroyed his engine. Sure WCF should take some responsibility, their parts made his engine break. IMO, WCF has horrible customer service, and it's all a popularity contest with them. Then when something goes wrong, blames it on somebody else. We've all seen this before. And it probably won't change.

when and where have you asked me a question? What is your question? I must be seen as some complete ass hole here - look We are simply Fiero guys that are trying to get parts out there to make these cars better. We are a machine shop first and foremost that specializes in props and hardware for Sony Studios and marine hardware for sail boat enthusiasts. In the off time it allows us to dedicate much R&D for Fieros as it is our hobby. There are mistakes to be made and there always will be unfortunately - however we choose to keep it at a minimun if not any at all. For every mishap we have made there has been an equal if not greater customer service on our part to correct the situation, and thats the way it always will be.

As far as my views about Archie, there is nothing wrong with a little healthy compitition is there?

We are always open for constructive criticism as it is the tool which makes what we do better everyday.

So once again, what was your question?

------------------

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

I've been reading this thread for 2 days and wanted to stay out of it. But, as with any good topic...

Like it or not, our cars are getting older and most (if not all) will require varying degrees of repair. My local shops (although fine in their own right) may not be capable of providing the appropriate repair or part when I need it. Since I am geographically challenged and cannot just drive to Fiero Warehouse, Rodney Dickman, Kick Hill, WCF etc... I rely on "recommendations" from people who have dealt with those businesses. Either good or bad, I want to know what I can expect when dealing with long distance Fiero maintenance. When someone post positive remarks (Rodney's various threads, Slyguy's visit to WCF, etc), everyone is happy. But if someone has a less than great comment, it is automatically unfair, slander, and flame?!? I think not. It is a fellow owner's opinion, and THIS is the place to discuss it. Not throw flames back and forth, but discuss and (hopefully) resolve the issue. The group doesn't need to be involved in the specifics (PM and email are great, and free), but the "I have a problem with ************ company" is something I want to know about before I get into the same problem.

*** as I step off of my soap box ***

quote Originally posted by fldevel: eric even if the flyweel was "SUPPOSED" to be ballanced any crackhead would have known to re-check the balance before putting it al together and running it ..theirfore i dont believe it was WCF fault ..im not taking anyones side here but....DUAH

Ok, that is about the dumbest things I think I have ever heard. You send something to a "shop" to have it done "correctly," and then you should take it home and check it? Yeah, I had my motor rebuilt by a shop and then I went home and rebuilt the rebuild to check and make sure it is right, sure that makes sense..... this from a person who can't even spell DUH..
Chris

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Check out my site at: www.customdynamix.com
Turbo Q4 GT Project