why is everybody kicking Earl Sessions around - go back to bashing us

------------------

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

WCF
Here is the casting number for the flywheel: 476575 29J 12021

I hope this can help in some way for you to figure out what could have happened. It’s great to see that you are willing to help to find the problem. One problem, and it’s a big one, too late for me, but hopefully in the future others will be more educated on what things can go wrong with a swap.

I must have taken the wrong steps in my install:
1) Rebuild engine and have someone “match balance” a flywheel for me. If the flywheel was match balanced, then there should be no problem with balancing. Ok maybe there will be a little off balance.
2) Install everything after a lot of planning and hard work
3) Start up for the first time and notice that indeed there is a problem. Should the steering wheel jump up and down? I don’t think so, using stock Fiero rubber mounts.
4) Go through the process of debugging everything and finally have it all ironed out, except for that damn shaking. Now my headlight doors are dancing at idle.
5) Ok, the problem is getting worse. I’m now planning on removing the setup at the end of the week.
6) Next day, oil leak, and not just a little one. Damage has been done 
7) Rip everything out again and start taking a look at what happened.
8) Now time to make some calls. I felt like I was treated like an idiot on the phone at first. Blame is trying to be placed elsewhere when my question was how the flywheel was balanced because it doesn’t look like it was, nor does it operate like it was. I was curious to know how this process worked and if it was possible that it was never balanced. The only reason I thought this was because of emails sent in the past that didn’t go well with one another. One week the flywheel was getting balanced the other it had to be sent out to be balanced. This made me feel uncomfortable. Well guess what, I honestly don’t think it was done. Sure, WCF offered for me to send it back to look at to see what is going on. I was told that Chris will personally go to the balancer’s place to make sure that they are running the balancing machine correctly, and if they are not, that they should not be running the machine. I think that was very nice to offer that option to me, but at this time, I can’t send it back out and wait.

As far as the fixing of this problem, I will be having the flywheel balanced a second time with the whole engine assembly, the way it should be done as I am told. The question remains, what are all those guys going to do who buy brand new crate engines and rely on WCF’s modified flywheel. Are they going to have to pull the internals out to verify the balance of the flywheel? I know that question is a bit far-fetched, but seriously, I was under the impression that it was a match balance. Especially since it was sent with the flexplate to be matched to. There is also that clearance problem I had. Does anyone know about such a problem with this configuration? WCF, do you know about it, would be good to mention that so others don’t have this expensive problem. Here’s a pic of the match balanced flywheel, see for yourself, either the stock unbalanced 2.8 flywheel was a direct match to the flexplate, or it wasn’t done. Maybe the counterweights where just matched up between the flexplate and flywheel and that is as far as it goes.

I don’t know what else to say to everyone, but my lesson learned is to ask a lot of questions before jumping into something. I don’t flame anyone, nor do I want to on here, just getting facts across.

Here’s the flywheel, take a look

Well... WCF, will this casting number help you? I didn't get any email or here from you since you posted that we are working things out.

sorry bout that - just getting back into the shop at 1:37 pm on Wednesday afternoon. What I am going to do is run this part number through my sources and learn everything about the 95 engine that I can - perhaps there is something that we both missed

------------------

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

It's not for a 95 engine, it's for a 1990. see what you can find out, it's good to know so down the road things like this don't happen.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric, it all started like this way back last year.

I guess you missed it.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/011199.html

Loyde

I wish I would have seen that post in the past, I'm glad this post is up for those planning this swap. The interference was not brought to my attention, and still hasn't. There was an email sent out with this question to WCF, but for some reason never got a response yet. Maybe just a lot of email and too busy? You get more response from WCF on the forum than through the email, that's why I went here to post.

So anyone know what to do to solve this interference problem? How thin can I go with the flywheel? I have time to figure it out since I have to locate another Getrag trans. West Coast Fiero, can you help out with this, or give some suggestions. After reading the posts from a previous problem just like this one, you seem to know about it. If any oney knows the solution, you should.

Eric

quote Originally posted by FastFieros: Eric, it all started like this way back last year. I guess you missed it. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/011199.html Loyde

oh for crying out loud, this topic is old - and its not even Mr. King's problem

------------------

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

quote Originally posted by West Coast Fiero: oh for crying out loud, this topic is old - and its not even Mr. King's problem

Hello.....

That is one of my 2 problems. I posted asking how to fix this as well.

Eric

Still havn't heard from you....

reply sent

------------------

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

still waiting on flywheel to come back

------------------

Eric Nelson
Technician,
West Coast Fiero
www.cwestco.com
310-305-4111

Glad to see you are excited to get back the flywheel. Need more than a day to send it.

The way the machine shop balanced it was that they made up bob weights for the assembly. They matched the ballance of all pistons, weighed the rings and connecting rods. With that done they had bob weights attatched to the crank with the harmonic ballancer and the extra flexplate. As far as they knew, it was the flywheel/flexplate for the engine (flexplate was not modified, they drilled holes in the big piece of metal on the crank). I didn't mention the modified flywheel from you since you where to match balance it to the original flexplate.

To be honest with you, I know you sent me email to send the flywheel back to you to have it rebalanced and to see what went wrong. I can't do that, I allready waited over 5 months the first time from you. How long would it take? Since my engine is apart and the bob weights are documented, I will now have it balanced with the whole assembly.

You are nuts to think that I would actually send it back to you after all the BS I went through!

The last email I sent you, I asked for money back on the modified flywheel, not the destroyed engine or Getrag trans. I feel I was entitled to the money back on the flywheel since it was definately not match balanced. Is that too much to ask? I will admit, the engine mount that I also bought was 1st class, and I would even recomend it, but I didn't get what I paid for.

I see posts saying to take this problem out of here and to email or pm, but to be honest, coming here was the only way to get a response.

Ask yourself this, if you where in my shoes, would you trust to send something back a second time when you are now on time restraints because the car is setting without an engine right now. I have to put my damn 2.8 back in for now. Before I can do that I have to gather some parts again. Sorry, but this time the flywheel stays with me.

What about my question that I had for you a few times now concerning the clearance of the pressure plate to the trans with a Getrag? This is constantly ignored, I was just looking for advice since you seem to be the resident expert on this stuff.

As a fellow Fiero nut and you being one too I'll keep the flames to nothing here if I can, but I got burned here big time.

I wasn't going to reply to this post anymore to let the bad mouthing of your place drop off the top of the list, but since you want to come back on here and repost to try and hide the facts I will constantly bring this back to the top until my wishes are met.

Eric

quote Originally posted by Eric_PA: To be honest with you, I know you sent me email to send the flywheel back to you to have it rebalanced and to see what went wrong. I can't do that, I allready waited over 5 months the first time from you. How long would it take? Since my engine is apart and the bob weights are documented, I will now have it balanced with the whole assembly. You are nuts to think that I would actually send it back to you after all the BS I went through!

Well, if you're sure it's bad, then what's the point of holding on to it? Either have the new motor balanced to this flywheel, or send the thing back to make sure it's allright.

May I interject??? Eric_PA, Next time you do a conversion like this perhaps it would be in your best interest to use the entire donor drive train and avoid any missed communications. Please let WCF do what they have to to rectify your problem. Here you have a vendor willing to help you at any cost and you turn them down? They deserve the opportunity to save their reputation and customer confidence. After all I have read here, there seems to be some serious holes in all of this. I can't form any true opinions other than the fact that WCF should be given the chance to help you get your car back on the road.

Peace, B2 OUT!

------------------
85GT 3.4L
Eibachs and Poly's
17" Konig Monsoons
Kumho Ecstas
Interior is all "Mike'd" up

While this is at the top of the forum I will respond because I do not want to do anything to bump it back to the top. Eric_PA, I am so sick of this thread. Spend a dime and call WCF that way you are assured of a response. I have chatted with WCF and they are willing to assist you but THIS IS NOT THE PLACE FOR EVERY LITTLE CORRESPONDENCE. Get this thing taken care of elsewhere. Please follow your own statements! Sorry to not agree to many others including my friends which include Eric_PA

quote Originally posted by Eric_PA: I apologize to all who have read this and also to Cliff and WCF. I realize that I should not vent my frustrations on here and maybe to handle things a better way. As far as the problem I had, it's irreversible, and I am sure that WCF would help if they could. There may have been an honest mistake with the product and I should have looked into things a bit more. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. Eric

quote Originally posted by Eric_PA: Good call Loki... I shouldn't have posted any negative info, have to start thinking positive. This is my last post Eric

Why are you guys jumping Eric_Pa for continuing to post here? His last response was a response to question asked by WCF HERE.

I'm not sure some of you understand the issues involved here. Look at the picture of the flywheel, there is no evidence that it was balanced AT ALL. Go back to page one and read what rockcrawl wrote. I don't blame Eric_Pa for not wanting to send it back.

Can't resist anymore... this is why I don't think the flywheel was balanced... Heck it wasn't match balanced.

"It is at the balancer's as he is very busy we should get it back this week
Chris"

This was sent to me via email on Tuesday May 15th

"Eric
The flywheel is done we need to balance it I will take it to the balancer on
Monday.
Chris"

Now this was sent to me via email on Tuesday June 5th.

Would you beleive this was written from within the same email replied back and forth! Below is the whole email as it developed throught time. Now this is why you can't contact via email. Coming here was a last resort. I used 10-10-220 to place calls and I was treated like an idiot, being told that the tech running the balancer must be screwing up, and that Chris is going to be at his side to make sure it is done right when I send it back. It was a smart comment directed at me during a conversation. Who the heck wants to deal with that, I'm human and a customer.

..... EMAIL BELOW ....

Eric
The flywheel is done we need to balance it I will take it to the balancer on
Monday.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric King" <eric885@earthlink.net>
To: "Chris West" <chriswest@vel.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: 3800 FLywheel and mounting

> Chris,
> Hi, checking up again and just curious on how long you think until
> completion.
> Eric
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: "Chris West" <chriswest@vel.net>
> To: Eric King <eric885@earthlink.net>
> Sent: May 16, 2001 9:27:14 PM GMT
> Subject: Re: 3800 FLywheel and mounting
>
>
> It is at the balancer's as he is very busy we should get it back this week
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric King" <eric885@earthlink.net>
> To: "Chris West" <chriswest@vel.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:23 AM
> Subject: Re: 3800 FLywheel and mounting
>
>
> > Chris,
> > Hi, just checking up on the progress of the flywheel and 3800 engine
> mount.
> > Wanted to know how long it would take. No need to be in a hurry as I am
> also
> > doing a rebuild on it right now. Let me know.
> > thanks Eric
> >
> > ------Original Message------
> > From: "Chris West" <chriswest@vel.net>
> > To: Eric King <eric885@earthlink.net>
> > Sent: April 25, 2001 3:27:21 PM GMT
> > Subject: Re: 3800 FLywheel and mounting
> >
> >
> > Eric, sorry about not replying sooner as it has been very busy here. Yes
> > your flywheel package got here last week and is in the process of being
> > machined
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Eric King" <eric885@earthlink.net>
> > To: "Chris West" <chriswest@vel.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 3:36 AM
> > Subject: Re: 3800 FLywheel and mounting
> >
> >
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > I am a bit worried that the package never got to your place. Did you
> > receive
> > > it? I'm not in any hurry just want the peice of mind that it made it
to
> > your
> > > place.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Eric
> > >
> > > ------Original Message------
> > > From: "Chris West" <chriswest@vel.net>
> > > To: Eric King <eric885@earthlink.net>
> > > Sent: April 5, 2001 6:16:25 PM GMT
> > > Subject: Re: 3800 FLywheel and mounting
> > >
> > >
> > > Eric
> > > Send it UPS they will tell you how much the shipping is and the
address
> is
> > > the one to send the flywheel to.
> > > The mount for the 3800 is all you need to mount the engine in the
frame.
> > > Chris
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Eric King" <eric885@earthlink.net>
> > > To: <cwest@cwestco.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2001 10:06 AM
> > > Subject: 3800 FLywheel and mounting
> > >
> > >
> > > > Chris,
> > > > I talked to you this week about machining a flywheel for me. I had
to
> > > order
> > > > one and am picking it up tonight, it's an 87 wheel. I live in PA and
> > would
> > > > like to know how you would like it sent. You said the price is
listed
> on
> > > the
> > > > net, it's at $220 I was wonderin how much for shipping, and do I
send
> it
> > > to
> > > > the address on the web page? Also I wanted to ask what is all needed
> to
> > > > mount the engine to the sub frame? I noticed your bracket for $55,
is
> > > there
> > > > anything else? I'm not woried about electrical or coolant stuff just
> the
> > > > mounting. Let me know what is needed that you can offer. What ever
you
> > can
> > > > offer along with the mods to the flywheel I would like to place an
> order
> > > for
> > > > this week.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Eric

Now why I don't send the flywheel back at this time? Here's a pic of the engine in it's current state. Sine I was told it's a Hot Rodder NO NO by WCF to rebuild an engine with out the FLywheel, I will take his advice and do my rebuild a second time this year with his match balanced flywheel. Can't wait to see how dead they are on. By the looks of the flywheel who's pic i posted, I'm willing to bet it's way off. Nothing like a freshly rebuilt engine turn back down to this.

since the post was up ontop again, I couldn't resist

*

[This message has been edited by Eric_PA (edited 01-27-2002).]

Looks like 2 problems.. Which are very simple yet expensive. Both sides the buyer and the seller need to do. Buyer needs to do more research ask more questions. Seller needs to be be more informative, or include a disclaimer or advice with the product where it is advertised and when sold. I completely support West Coast Fiero and hope they continue to make fine products for our little cars...