I think Mr. Ed has been booted, due to the sudden lack of his ramblings and Cliff's last post in the annoucements section.

So, now that that ugly little chapter is closed, let's get back to normal with only the occasional harmless flare up.

------------------

88GT 5sp, in desperate need of an LT1
http://www.geocities.com/fiero88gt1/

It was simple. It started with some bad stuff in the O/T section where this one guy was accusing a lot of people of racism. He started several threads about that. These accusations were of course unfounded and just smelled like trolling. This guy was all over everybody with his "freedom of speech"-speech and that he couldn't be banned or he would sue for racism. This p'ed me off and I closed those threads with a warning that from now on I'll start moderating more strict. I said I would not tolerate off-topic postings anymore especially in the Tech section and that I would not tolerate new threads which had the sole purpose of starting a flamewar. So the next day, I go over the Tech section and I find a posting from this Ed guy. He obviously had an issue with Archie in another thread (which btw, I had never seen) and started a new thread - in the TECH section - with a list of member's names who in his eyes, had slammed him "in the good name of Archie". This thread was everything I had specifically told people not to do so I deleted it without hesitation. Then shortly after, he posted the exact same message, again in the Tech section. This time he used false topic: "My car doesn't run right". He accused me in that thread of having some sort of hidden commercial agenda, because in his eyes I was obviously defending Archie. He even went as far as saying "Admit this club is based on commerce and not casual Fiero conversation and I'll believe you, if not convince me otherwise."

Of course, that p'ed me off tremendously. You can read my response in that thread which I immediately closed. I sent him a private email. Then he went to the General section and posted this. My respons was: "Ed, you have just gone too far. I'll be in the States in two weeks. Expect to be contacted then." First he posts my private email to him in that thread (which I don't care about although it shows what a sad and childish person this really is. In fact, I only found out today that he posted that since I wasn't reading any posts from him anymore). Next, being the pathetic paranoid guy he had shown to be, he goes completely ballistic over my "Expect to be contacted then" remark in this thread. Of course, in his eyes this was a physical threat from me to him.

By then, I was so incredibly angry I decided that I didn't need this **** . All members that know me a little, know exactly why I started this forum and why it has been free so far. It's like Galen said: "Question my ability, question my intelligence, but never ever question my integrity".

So I closed the forum. And believe me, it wasn't meant as a wake up call. It was really my intention to shut it down for ever. I'm not "loaded" as Ed suggested. But I do spent a considerable amount of time and money on the third biggest passion in my life: Fieros (the first passion being my gf, the second my music).

But, I made a little mistake. In my "closing statement", I posted links to the threads that had offended me so much. I had forgotten all about the "profile" link. So people started to send Ed email. I do not know the contents of these mails but judging by the posts in the forum (people were still able to post messages if they bypassed the "front door") they weren't very nice emails. So After reading these posts for about 1.5 hour, I decided to open the forum again, solely for this Ed guy's protection. I even went as far as to apologize to him for this error here. I did not apologize for what I had said to him (because, Ed, if you read this, I still think you're the biggest ******* to walk the face of the earth) but merely for the fact that I didn't foresee other members' reactions. He took this as a personal victory and said it was probably due to some legal advice I had gotten from another member that I opened the forum again.

Well, that tempted me to close the forum again and to just delete the 1.2Gb worth of Fiero information so it would never be back. But I knew if I did this, this Ed guy would get real threats. So still I protected him even though he was trying his best to piss me off and put me in a bad daylight. I did not do this because I'm afraid for any legal actions. In fact, my lawyer is almost begging me to sue his ass for slander.

I haven't even banned him. That would be too easy. But perhaps he had a bright moment and realized it was time to shut up before I do sue his ass off.

Anyway, you be the judge who was right or wrong here. This whole affair left me with a bad taste in my mouth and robbed me from the pleasure doing this. Perhaps it is time to shut down PFF. All questions have been asked and there is more than enough material here to create one big, all embrasing FAQ.

I will not turn PFF into a commercial site. I will never accept any form of payment or reward from its members. I said it before, the only thing I have considered is putting a banner up just to cover the costs a bit.

Cliff--I'll be disappointed if you end up shutting the forum down for good, but I'll understand. Let me clarify my statement. I won't be disappointed in you because I'd probably feel the same way, just disappointed that it had to come to that. I understand that you don't want any monetary rewards. I still offer room and board if you ever decide to make a trip to Wabash. I only offer this because I'd like to meet you, not necessarily as payment for a job well done. (BTW--It wouldn't cost us much.) You know I'm one of your biggest supporters. Whatever you think is best.

It appears that I'm rambling. I think it's time to go to bed and dream about Fieros.

------------------
'Consciousness: That annoying time between naps.'

MM

I'll back MM's ramble up.

What kind of music do you do? Always interested in music I aint heard

anyways, like I said before... If you do shut the forum down, which I do greatly hope you do not, You'll always have a friend in NC

------------------

"To whom it may concern, The preceeding message was the opinion of this person and not of this forum. If you do not like it. Oh well"

What happened to my post?

Nevermind. I found it. Odd. It didn't come up a minute ago until I posted this one. Maybe Galen was posting at the exact same time??

Galen--It's all your fault.

[This message has been edited by Monkeyman (edited 07-04-2001).]

Cliff,

Speaking for me (although I am sure these sentiments are shared by many here), this forum is, without a doubt, the most enlightening, most entertaining, and most informative forum for the Fiero available.

And, before I forget to mention, good thinking on the priority of your passions!!

I second the motion made by Rodney in another thread (ok, it wasn't a motion but rather an invitation.....) and will provide anything you may need for your Fiero to keep it in the the proper operating condition for you -- just email me if you need anything and I will see to it that it is sent to you.

It is a tremendous job you are doing and I realize that it is time consuming to scrutinize every thread. As with any forum there will always be disagreements and dissension but they need not get out of hand. I know I have been involved in my share too and have personally decided to make better use of my time than to argue needlessly on here. There are always those, though, who, for their own reasons due to their personality, feel the need to start something that shouldn't be started and then continue it into a full scale flame war.......all of us have different personalities and there is no way that we will all ever agree on everything. Personalities and personal biases should be left out of the forum.

Thank you again for the opportunity of participating in this forum -- it is a privilege and everyone needs to realize that -- privileges may be taken away just as easily as they are given........

Cliff,

It's been a nasty couple of days, and it sounds like you're totally burnt out with this forum.

We all would like you to keep it open, but it seems like you're seriously considering closing it for good.

If that's what your leaning to, could we ask maybe that you would only close it down for a few days or even a couple weeks?

Take a vacation from it. I'm sure you could use one, and maybe some of us as well.

I'm hoping that under the anger and frustration you don't want to see it gone for good. I don't think anyone that uses it wants to ever see that happen. This board plays a huge part in keeping Fieros from fading into obscurity.

If you do decide to shut it down, thanks for giving us what we had. We'll continue to be here, and we'll still be here if it goes down and comes back when you're ready.

Peace

Cliff, there is just no way you can allow the Forum to die as a direct result of what some snoot nosed kid said/did. The legacy left by such an action would linger in the Fiero community for years.

The thread that preceeded his slanderous thread was this one https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/011699.html as you review it you will see that, considering his behavior, there were no out of line comments made to this guy. In that thread we were doing a pretty good job of ignoring him. I don't feel that any of the victims/targets of his "Mouth" thread did anything wrong. I don't feel that I did anything wrong, however my message to you asking you to look at the "Mouth" thread did eventually lead you to several hours of grief from this guy, & for that I'm sorry.

Now that it has been positively established that you and I are one in the same, can I borrow some money?

Archie

Cliff,

I'm not following you on this one. I certainly understand it leaving a bad taste in your mouth. But why walk away from the whole thing?

You have created a very nice place here. It's not just the FAQ type questions. People are meeting in the real world because of this place. I gave away 2 cars in the mall. The guy I gave them to only lives 10 miles away but I probably would never have met him if not for this place. There have to be hundreds of similar stories. I really think you are underestimating the positive influence this forum has on the Fiero community.

I hope you can find a way to make it fun for you again. There are many people on here that will help any way we can. Just let us know what you need.

David.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: It was simple. It started with some bad stuff in the O/T section where this one guy was accusing a lot of people of racism. He started several threads about that. These accusations were of course unfounded and just smelled like trolling. This guy was all over everybody with his "freedom of speech"-speech and that he couldn't be banned or he would sue for racism. This p'ed me off and I closed those threads with a warning that from now on I'll start moderating more strict. I said I would not tolerate off-topic postings anymore especially in the Tech section and that I would not tolerate new threads which had the sole purpose of starting a flamewar. So the next day, I go over the Tech section and I find a posting from this Ed guy. He obviously had an issue with Archie in another thread (which btw, I had never seen) and started a new thread - in the TECH section - with a list of member's names who in his eyes, had slammed him "in the good name of Archie". This thread was everything I had specifically told people [b]not to do so I deleted it without hesitation. Then shortly after, he posted the exact same message, again in the Tech section. This time he used false topic: "My car doesn't run right". He accused me in that thread of having some sort of hidden commercial agenda, because in his eyes I was obviously defending Archie. He even went as far as saying "Admit this club is based on commerce and not casual Fiero conversation and I'll believe you, if not convince me otherwise." Of course, that p'ed me off tremendously. You can read my response in that thread which I immediately closed. I sent him a private email. Then he went to the General section and posted this. My respons was: "Ed, you have just gone too far. I'll be in the States in two weeks. Expect to be contacted then." First he posts my private email to him in that thread (which I don't care about although it shows what a sad and childish person this really is. In fact, I only found out today that he posted that since I wasn't reading any posts from him anymore). Next, being the pathetic paranoid guy he had shown to be, he goes completely ballistic over my "Expect to be contacted then" remark in this thread. Of course, in his eyes this was a physical threat from me to him. By then, I was so incredibly angry I decided that I didn't need this **** . All members that know me a little, know exactly why I started this forum and why it has been free so far. It's like Galen said: "Question my ability, question my intelligence, but never ever question my integrity". So I closed the forum. And believe me, it wasn't meant as a wake up call. It was really my intention to shut it down for ever. I'm not "loaded" as Ed suggested. But I do spent a considerable amount of time and money on the third biggest passion in my life: Fieros (the first passion being my gf, the second my music). But, I made a little mistake. In my "closing statement", I posted links to the threads that had offended me so much. I had forgotten all about the "profile" link. So people started to send Ed email. I do not know the contents of these mails but judging by the posts in the forum (people were still able to post messages if they bypassed the "front door") they weren't very nice emails. So After reading these posts for about 1.5 hour, I decided to open the forum again, solely for this Ed guy's protection. I even went as far as to apologize to him for this error here. I did not apologize for what I had said to him (because, Ed, if you read this, I still think you're the biggest ******* to walk the face of the earth) but merely for the fact that I didn't foresee other members' reactions. He took this as a personal victory and said it was probably due to some legal advice I had gotten from another member that I opened the forum again. Well, that tempted me to close the forum again and to just delete the 1.2Gb worth of Fiero information so it would never be back. But I knew if I did this, this Ed guy would get real threats. So still I protected him even though he was trying his best to piss me off and put me in a bad daylight. I did not do this because I'm afraid for any legal actions. In fact, my lawyer is almost begging me to sue his ass for slander. I haven't even banned him. That would be too easy. But perhaps he had a bright moment and realized it was time to shut up before I do sue his ass off. Anyway, you be the judge who was right or wrong here. This whole affair left me with a bad taste in my mouth and robbed me from the pleasure doing this. Perhaps it is time to shut down PFF. All questions have been asked and there is more than enough material here to create one big, all embrasing FAQ. I will not turn PFF into a commercial site. I will never accept any form of payment or reward from its members. I said it before, the only thing I have considered is putting a banner up just to cover the costs a bit.[/B]

I would like to start by saying I sincerely hope you don’t close the forum and that if you want me to quit posting, simply remove my ID and I will forever go away and not reappear as a different ID. I would like to respond to some of the various posts entered against me though. It’s amazing at how people can’t believe I enter multiple posts when I have responded to only a small fraction of the defamatory remarks against me.

Posted by Cliff:

“Secondly: Ed, you seriously need to get your head checked. You are one paranoid dude. First you see a secret alliance between Archie and me (I'm sure Archie will have a good laugh about that, unfortunately I was not amused), now you are accusing me of threathening you. Get a life.”

What did you mean by,

“I will be in the states in a couple of weeks, you’ll be contacted then?”

If this isn’t a commercial venture, as you have clearly stated, I have not defamed you or your mother, and I have not threatened you in any way, then how can you sue for anything? What is your damage? My damage is that you have threatened me and have facilitated many people to threaten and defame me, and you have admitted you did so. The reference to you and Archie being the same person was merely a parody, either way, not defaming to a reasonable person.

Then you wrote;

“Ok, one more thing then. First of all, Ed is not the ONLY reason I felt I needed to shut down the forum. Second, please don't make threats against him! Going after him will not solve anything and is *not* the reason why I posted links to his thread on the shut-down page. As a matter of fact, I will remove those links right now because it is not fair to direct all your anger towards him.”

Then why did you do it? I didn’t appreciate it. You motivated many people to contact me, including a “Bob C.,” if that’s really his name, who said he was going to distribute my name and all of my posts to all Fiero clubs for which he claims he is a V.P. Another guy prompted any forum members to post any information about me, such as phone number and address. This is a cult-like atmosphere, believe it or not, and you have become its leader through the creation and inception of this Internet club. Also, you omitted one point I made about the Fierolisa post that should have been removed, not closed. I asked you why you let it go for many posts before you finally closed and didn’t remove it like you did for your buddy Archie. Also, why did you remove your post to that thread where you stated, “I don’t know whether to close this thread or print it and hang it on my wall?” Did you eliminate that and other goodies from the archive during the 1hr, 45 min moratorium? Considering you’re the custodian of the server and you have total access to the record, if you ever tried to sue me for I don’t know what damage, that would raise some issues in regard to admissability. Besides, in order to sue you need three things: Liability, damage, and solvency. I have done nothing to defame you or ruin your non-commercial web site, and I’m not exactly loaded either. Have your supposed attorneys do an asset search on me. Besides, you could certainly expect a counter suit from me for defamation and endangerment through your admitted reckless behavior. Like I said, I enjoy the forum, if you wish me gone, eliminate my logon and I will never post again under any name. You have reasonable recourse; hence I don’t believe you want me gone until you act on it. Servers are set up, to my knowledge, to facilitate the removal of unwanted members by the deletion of their logon ID’s, so if you ignore that process, I will assume you don’t want me removed.

Archie, Mr. “there were no out of line comments made to this guy,” wrote;

“Cliff, there is just no way you can allow the Forum to die as a direct result of what some snoot nosed kid said/did. The legacy left by such an action would linger in the Fiero community for years.”

“The thread that preceeded his slanderous thread was this one https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/011699.html as you review it you will see that, considering his behavior, there were no out of line comments made to this guy. In that thread we were doing a pretty good job of ignoring him. I don't feel that any of the victims/targets of his "Mouth" thread did anything wrong. I don't feel that I did anything wrong, however my message to you asking you to look at the "Mouth" thread did eventually lead you to several hours of grief from this guy, & for that I'm sorry.”
I wasn’t getting beat up here?
“Well sir, I don't even know you and don't recall our phone conversation. However, considering your long winded discussions on this and the fact that you refuse to accept MY answer to YOUR question, leads me to believe that you already know everything you need to know on this subject.”

“I honestly don't remember a phone discussion about ratios, but if you called me at home then it was after 7pm my time. And it was after I'd just spent 11 hours at the shop. By then, if you carried on like you are here, I'm sure that I would have tired of talking about it very quickly. Besides, I was probally trying to eat my dinner about that time of the night.”

And another guy wrote;

“EdsB52, shut the ____up...
Have you ever done anything for the Fiero community?
Have you ever twisted a wrench? I doubt it!
If you love to type, why don't you write a Novel?
Archie is a Fiero Hero!
You are an A$$.
Keep it short, would ya?”

Oh, and one of the forum members whom I will allow to remain anonymous wrote emails twice;

“So, is that what you wanted you whiney little puke?
And I’m so happy to see I made your list.
I am embarrassed to think you’re from Tempe. I obviously have spent a lot of time there. In fact, I’ll probably be moving back there by year-end.
Maybe I’ll see you around.”

And;

“Oh yes, it’s all about leveraging and conspiracies against you.
You probably should have your psychosis looked into.
And your $10 words in your posts are most unimpressive. It’s very easy to tell when someone really has a large vocabulary, and when someone only attempts to use one to give the appearance of intelligence.
What’s your education level? Middle school graduate I would imagine.
There won’t be too much checking out each other’s cars. You’re out of your league.
I would love to meet you though”

Cliff, that’s a direct product of your work and you should be ashamed of that conduct. I'm not alone in my thinking. Your liability in this matter is forever. So what now?

You like to talk alot man. and you just dont give up or listen. If you have a beef with someone, take it to email. As I recentlty did with JohnnyK..

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"To whom it may concern, The preceeding message was the opinion of this person and not of this forum. If you do not like it. Oh well"

quote Originally posted by Archie: Now that it has been positively established that you and I are one in the same, can I borrow some money?

I've heard about split personalities, but split by two continents, that's a fairly new one for me.

Ed: too many words. It's fairly easy to get your point accross with a lot less words. Let me give you an example: "go **** yourself".

Don't worry about it Ed, Archie and I started of with a huge verbal fight as well, and now we are joined at the hip.

Ed - Please take a long jump off a short pier and do us all a favor! You were wrong, and you are STILL in the wrong no matter how you word it. Don't you get it? Some people! Cliff, I'm sure I speak for the many when I say that this is THE BEST Fiero forum PERIOD! Please don't let him steer you into shutting down. That would mean victory for this yahoo and anguish for us all. Thanks for still being here!

Rob D.

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Don't worry about it Ed, Archie and I started of with a huge verbal fight as well, and now we are joined at the hip.

Yeah.... and let me remind you of what that arguement was about..... It was about the fact that you allow A$$holes to remain on your Forum and you allow them to interject their bull$hit into perfectly good interesting threads and turn them into flame wars. Cliff, go back and take a look at that discussion and you'll see that it was about you protecting jerks like Ed.

If I would have won that arguement back then, Ed wouldn't be around to pull this crap now.

P.S. I don't ever think Ed can become a respected member of this forum, he has gone way too far to ever redeem himself. Heck he's now pulling the cr#p on you right now that he was pulling on me last week. If he can do this to you, then who is safe? Just how far does a person have to go to get banned?

In his above rant, he complains that some of the same people that were on his "Mouth" list sent him insulting private EMails. He cries about those private EMails but doesn't appologize for calling those same people Sockcuckers in the "Mouth" post.

You are way too forgiving with these idiots. I would like to join with many other members, in making the STRONG SUGGESTION that you remove this jerk and have it over with.

Archie

please don't kill the forum Cliff... uum freedom of speach?? this is a privatly held entity and not based in the US.. (NL) the owner of the site since you didn't pay for this as a service has the right to govern what ever he wants... and Ed seems to get all bent out of shape cause Cliff is exercising his right to keep HIS site clean. everyone here agreed to let Cliff direct his board how he sees fit.. you have to in order to put a username in his system. and like many other lame excuseful sue-happy americans threating a suit... what were you thinking? threats don't do anything but piss others off. and your choice of words in the previous post sounded to me like you were threating Cliff.

not the sharpest crayon in the box

[This message has been edited by 1FST2M6 (edited 07-05-2001).]

If someone were to start a "ban Ed" thread, it would bo ballistic, in spite of Ed's 20 minute posts.

We are a community, and he is no longer welcome. By anyone. I have taken my issues with him to email, and he has seemed happy to respond in kind. If we all just ignore him here, he will go away. BUT I still think the best way would be to ban him. If he comes back under another username (which we WILL, though he claims otherwise) it wouldn't take 2 weeks of his best behavior to find him again.

I say, run your forum the way you see fit, but don't let him stay just because you think in some twisted way he'll see it as a victory if he was banned.

My $.02

------------------
Michael ~ triadtuning@hotmail.com
-----------------

Photoshop rendering of planned exterior modifications.

[This message has been edited by TRiAD (edited 07-05-2001).]

Nobody asked my opinion, but here are my two cents' worth anyway - I vote to ban him, and if he comes back under another username, that will be a separate matter.

If the new username acts the same way as he has been (or if anyone else acts that way), ban that one, too.

If the new username acts as a productive member of the forum, then fine - treat him just like any other member here.

It's quite honorable of Cliff to 'protect' Ed, but as I see it, Ed made his bed - let him lay in it. I feel no pity for him.

well gee...since cliff won't take our money maybe we can give it to the two people who will be visiting az. soon. comission a little wet work. whaddaya say?

i'm kidding (i think). though that night when i read the shut down notice (if i had felt any worse i'd have been in tears), i think i would have been perfectly willing to walk to az. and do it myself.

------------------
Phil T.

SERENITY NOW!!!!

All I can say is HOLY SH1T ! I was away for the weekend on a Camping Expedition with BanditBalz (Watch for another thread on that!) and all hell brakes loose! All I can say is GEEZ!! When I caused this much **** I knew when to finally just shut up and let it blow over! Dude, let it stop, here and now, I can't beleive you have pushed Cliff to the point of CLOSURE OVER THIS!

Cliff, if you are going to close this thing, PLEASE do me a favor, send me all the HTML and software you use to run the thread! (I of course will compensate you for it!) and let me host it from here, I am willing to put it on a highspeed Co-Loc service I have access to here in Canada.

???

I know I havent been around posting but I always check the forum from time to time. This forum is indeed on of the best and I benefit alot from it. Even I dont have my toy anymore, I still hang around here trying to keep myself updated to latest things thats going on in the Fiero World. Cliff, your the best...You've help me in the past and it's really a shame to closed this forum...But like everybody else...I can't blame you for your decision. I hope you would really consider not to and let's go on with our Fiero life...So...next topic!!!!

quote Originally posted by kslish: (Roger, Lisa, Denny, Scott, Corinne and so on...their forum names are pretty useless now) know that I probably don't have a negative bone in my body

Its true Ken doesn't have a single negitive bone in his body and I hate to see hiim get upset and I agree this just needs to stop you all need to grow up. but whatever it is true this is all Cliff's Creation and Cliffs Decision. So get over it

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1984 Sweet Candy Apple red Fiero sport coupe :-D

Well said Corinne. I guess you said what I was going to say too.

Scott

------------------
Fierokid's Web site
http://www.angelfire.com/sports/sfiero

AIM: Fierokid87
ICQ: Fierokid

I've gotta admit that I do not know the history of how this thread got started so I won't comment on it.

I will say however that this is one boring-ass thread!

If anyone has some apologizing to do then do it and let's talk about cars!

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: I've heard about split personalities, but split by two continents, that's a fairly new one for me. Ed: too many words. It's fairly easy to get your point accross with a lot less words. Let me give you an example: "go **** yourself". Don't worry about it Ed, Archie and I started of with a huge verbal fight as well, and now we are joined at the hip.

Hey Cliff, I have a short memory; we don't need to be hostile to each other. See, I told you that Archie and Cliff are the same guy! BTW, what is that mystery word? Let's see, 4 letters, 'go' precedes it and 'yourself' follows it. Hmmmmmmm, could it be 'feed?' Ya, good idea, I am hungry, thanks Cliff you're the best. See ya later, Ed.

Archie, don't answer him.

ED, shut up and go to your room.

I don't want to get into this mix but let me say this about what Archie said above. The reason why this forum is so popular and people like it is because Cliff doesn't run this place ANYTHING like the technet Archie runs. If you *mention* anything that isn't to Archie's liking, off with your head and you will be promptly removed. What the hell kind of way is that to run a place for Fiero discussion. The fact that Cliff still keeps this Ed guy on shows a lot of class on Cliff's part. If Cliff ran this place like a dictatorship it would probably have 50 members and everyone would be afraid to post in fear of making him mad. Thank God its not like that. Thanks Cliff.

quote Originally posted by Black88GT: I don't want to get into this mix but let me say this about what Archie said above. The reason why this forum is so popular and people like it is because Cliff doesn't run this place ANYTHING like the technet Archie runs. If you *mention* anything that isn't to Archie's liking, off with your head and you will be promptly removed. What the hell kind of way is that to run a place for Fiero discussion. The fact that Cliff still keeps this Ed guy on shows a lot of class on Cliff's part. If Cliff ran this place like a dictatorship it would probably have 50 members and everyone would be afraid to post in fear of making him mad. Thank God its not like that. Thanks Cliff.

Wait, lemme get my shovel. "The fact that Cliff still keeps this Ed guy on shows a lot of class on Cliff's part."
No, it shows that he doesn't feel like kicking Ed off, yet. And Archie's Technet is run by Archie, so he can knock whatever he wants off, too. I can't believe you're supporting Ed here...wait...ARE YOU ED? You sound very much the same. Maybe you're just part of the same liberal faction. (Now I'M sounding like Ed!)

Oh, and Ed, NOBODY here has to look up "Moot". Sheesh!

quote Originally posted by TRiAD: Wait, lemme get my shovel. "The fact that Cliff still keeps this Ed guy on shows a lot of class on Cliff's part." No, it shows that he doesn't feel like kicking Ed off, yet. And Archie's Technet is run by Archie, so he can knock whatever he wants off, too. I can't believe you're supporting Ed here...wait...ARE YOU ED? You sound very much the same. Maybe you're just part of the same liberal faction. (Now I'M sounding like Ed!) Oh, and Ed, NOBODY here has to look up "Moot". Sheesh!

Black88GT represents a puny minority of the members here. He represents the few classy members (of the ones that have posted) that have decided to give an opinion without slander (libel). He isn't defending me; in fact, he's actually claiming Cliff has grounds to remove me, and giving his rationale as to why Cliff hasn't. Now you're busting his (Black88GT) balls because he doesn't jump on the ignorance bandwagon with you, Archie, and the rest of the list members to blindly crucify me for standing up for myself. I thank the guys who have supported me through this crap as well as the few who have been fair and objective enough to remain out of an issue that isn't aimed at them. We've all played both roles; the role that's most fair when an issue doesn't involve you is as a distant observer.

Triad you don't even own a Fiero so your opinion holds zero merit in this forum.

I couldn't let St. Archie get away unscaved from this thread.

We all know the class you show black88gt. Your the same guy who brags he beat up joey....a kid in a girafe suit at ToysRus. Boy your right you have all kinds of class. WOOOoooo what a tough guy...

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Hey Mr. Ricer come over here and tell me how your stickers make you faster.....

Hey Einstein check your eye prescription and get back to me.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/002559.html

edited to add link

[This message has been edited by Black88GT (edited 07-05-2001).]

I have been on this forum for quite some time now and I have noticed that the mood is slowly deteriorating. It seems each time I log on there is some new argument going on causing a lot of trouble. I would hate to see the forum shut down but if it keeps going this way, I would not blame Cliff at all for closing it down. This kind of petty stuff really affects a person mentally. I think everybody is entitled to their opinions, but enough already, move on!

Right, as you stated in the old post, it was a joke from a magazine. Why do so many of the members in this forum have one pennies worth of the facts (if that much) and act as if they have the whole dollar. In the legal world we call that the 'totality of the circumstances.' Anyone can take a statement or fragment of a conversation and make either side look responsible. That's why an audiocassette must be in its entirety before it's allowed in. The witch-hunt mentality is really tiresome here; it's derived from insecurity.

I didn't read the original post Ed was defending him self on, and it does not really matter at this point if in the end this Forum is shut down. There comes a point where enough is enough. I think everybody here who does not live under a rock knows about this conflict by now. Dragging it on is going to do no good except bring this Forum down. It is not just Ed, but everybody at this point that is blowing this thing all out of proportion, and will cause this forums demise. Please stop this constant posting of this conflict, and other offensive issues. There is no point in keeping this debate open. No one is going to change their mind, and the fighting will just continue until this is stopped, or worse Cliff closes the Forum. I really hate to see that happen, but I can't really blame him at this point. I don't even run this place, and I am disgusted with the way people have started acting here. I think it is time for people to step back, and take a look at what is happening and decide if all this is really worth getting this Forum shut down over. I for one am going away for a few months myself. I will check back then and hopefully this place will still be here. If not then I understand why. Flame on if you want, but I won't be here to read it so I don't really care.

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quote Originally posted by Black88GT: Triad you don't even own a Fiero so your opinion holds zero merit in this forum. I couldn't let St. Archie get away unscaved from this thread.

Sorry, but it does NOT take Fiero ownership to know when someone's being an ass, or to entitle me to an opinion.
Oh, and in case you were wondering, it's Cliff's board, and it never said anywhere that Fiero ownership was required to read, post, or even to have and post an opinion.

The fact that I'm here, trying to research something I think I want to get involved in, says that I research things before I get involved. I believe this is actually a good thing.

As to St. Archie...you're being pulled into Ed's bullshit. Archie is no saint, nor does anyone here (that I'm aware of) view him that way. But he does put a LOT of time into this community, for the betterment of this community, and that generally earns a person a few friends...something I hope you both learn someday.

Look, I really could not care less about who is right, who is wrong, who is an idiot or who isn't. The fact is, everyone here is contributing to this mess and dragging it out longer than necessary. The longer we do this, the greater the chance of Cliff saying "enough" and shutting it (PFF) down. None of us want this, so let it go!!!!!!!
All you are doing is dragging it out. Nothing has been solved or will be! All we are doing is increasing the risk of Cliff changing his mind. Ed's opinions are his own (and entiltled to them) right or wrong. Leave it at that.

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If you can read this, I'm parked.

Oh please. All you Fiero newbie's are the same. Your all over Archie until you come to the conclusion 99% of us Fiero vets have, he's a jerk. I was just like you at one time, oh I can't wait to get a V8 kit, its the best Fiero blah blah blah, then you realize the particulars of the kit/engine, the limitations of the Fiero, realize who is selling the kit, then the final straw is actually seeing one installed. I wouldn't wish that upon my worst Fiero enemy.

As much as you would like to blame Ed for all the problems of this forum, this community, etc., one man does not have that power. Just because someone like myself isn't giving you what you want to hear, which is, "Ed get the **** out you piece of **** I am going to come to your house later on..." then I am being "pulled into Ed's bullshit". Which is a very untrue because myself and many others have had these opinions for years and years long before I read one post from Ed.