I have the opportunity to pick up an '88 5-spd duke that has been sitting for years. It's complete, but the engine is reported to have a slight knock. My plan is to swap in a 2.8 and other assorted goodies from an '86 GT.
The biggest problem is, the fuel pump is dead , and the car is located about 30 miles or so from a friend's place where the engine swap will be done. The engine runs if I put gas in the throttle body.

I hate to have to drop the gas tank in someone's yard miles from home (in a different country no less!) to install a new fuel pump, especially when that type of job will be so much easier to do in the garage where the engine swap etc will be taking place.

My same friend who's helping with the swap has made available to me a Mr Gasket 12s external fuel pump he had been using with a carbureted Porsche. The plan would be to simply splice this pump into the fuel supply line so as to get the engine running long enough to move the car.

However, the 12s fuel pump only puts out 4-7 psi, whereas the duke supposedly requires at least 9 psi. Considering that I don't plan to be "racing" the engine while driving to my friend's garage, would this pump work well enough just to get this car the 30 miles from point A to point B?

And will it be a problem for this external pump to be drawing gas through the dead in-tank fuel pump?

Also, in regards to locating the fuel pump... in a perfect world, an electric fuel pump is supposed to be mounted below the gas tank. That's not going to happen here. I'm hoping I can just splice it into the fuel supply line by the throttle body. Yes, I know electric fuel pumps are much happier pushing rather than sucking , but will this do the job? I don't care if it doesn't work really well, it just needs to be driveable for a few miles.

Opinions, advice?

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Whether it is able to pull fuel depends on its design and still the in tank pump's check valve resistance may hinder that. You may have to bypass the in tank pump all together and run an external tank in the form of a gas can. as for the pressure, I haven't seen a TBI setup in a long time to know if it's possible to remove a vacuum signal from the regulator but if the duke affords you that ability disconnect it and you should be fine from idle to part throttle although I doubt a 2-3 psi difference is going to be enough to cause a problem with the ECM correcting.

I purchased my daily driver as a running rod knock and coincidentally I had to drive it 30 miles from the seller home. It started as a light knock, by the 30 mile mark I was sure the rod would be through the block before I made it to the drive way. It was a 2.8L

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: I haven't seen a TBI setup in a long time to know if it's possible to remove a vacuum signal from the regulator but if the duke affords you that ability disconnect it and you should be fine from idle to part throttle although I doubt a 2-3 psi difference is going to be enough to cause a problem with the ECM correcting.

Thanks for that tip Joseph, I'll look into it.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: You may have to bypass the in tank pump all together and run an external tank in the form of a gas can.

I had considered that as well, but... I don't know how closely Canadian border officials inspect a just-bought older vehicle being brought back into the country from the States. My fear is that trying to cross the border into Canada with a jury-rigged gas can in the engine bay might be a problem.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-04-2013).]

Just a thought:

Might be easier (and work better) if you just replaced the fuel filter with the external fuel pump.

At under 10psi you could just splice it in with fuel line and 2 hose clamps on the outut side.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I had considered that as well, but... I don't know how closely Canadian border officials inspect a just-bought older vehicle being brought back into the country from the States. My fear is that trying to cross the border into Canada with a jury-rigged gas can in the engine bay might be a problem.

Hopefully you meant gas can in the trunk and I guess that would depend on what they're looking for as a gas can alone with fuel in the trunk is not a safety issue and if you're able to arrange it nicely perhaps it would be viewed as an auxiliary tank not unlike what small boats use more accessible to the driver.

quote Originally posted by mike-ohio: Might be easier (and work better) if you just replaced the fuel filter with the external fuel pump.

Yes, that location would certainly be better for the external pump than up by the throttle body. However, my concern is that there needs to be some type of fuel filter before the pump, as who knows what kind of crud is liable to pumped out of that tank after years of sitting.

Good suggestion to keep in mind though. Thanks.

On second thought it should work particularly if it is a vain style pump. You'll likely have to prime the hose but once the pump starts pushing fuel the siphon pressure should pull more fuel in behind. You'll want to form a "U" with the hose and have the pump at the bottom of the u to avoid cavitation should the siphon effect lag a little and create an air pocket which will stay high and away from the pump inlet.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-04-2013).]

It's not worth the extra effort- just rent or borrow a tow dolly or trailer and be done with it in a safe manner. Just my .02 cent thought.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: You'll want to form a "U" with the hose and have the pump at the bottom of the u to avoid cavitation should the siphon effect lag a little and create an air pocket which will stay high and away from the pump inlet.

Good suggestion.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Yes, that location would certainly be better for the external pump than up by the throttle body. However, my concern is that there needs to be some type of fuel filter before the pump, as who knows what kind of crud is liable to pumped out of that tank after years of sitting. If the fuel is being pulled through the old pump, I wouldnt be worried about the gunk cause of the sock on the bottom of the pump. I think the rubber piece that connects the fuel pump to the metal fuel line of the sending unit would be an issue if its disintegrated.... I agree with bjc350... get a trailer/tow dolly..It will be safer that way... no chance of leaving you on the side of the road. Good Luck with the move. ------------------ 88 coupe 4 Banger 86 SE v6 needing more work yet 86 GT needing TLC IP: Logged 08:24 PM ALJR Member Posts: 3765 From: Massachusetts Registered: Jul 2009 Feedback score:    (18) Leave feedback Rate this member Report this Post04-04-2013 09:14 PM ALJR 3765 posts Member since Jul 2009 [QUOTE]Originally posted by Patrick: The problem is... I don't have a tow dolly/trailer, and I don't have a suitable vehicle to pull one if I did. Besides, where's the challenge in doing it that way.

I agree with bjc 350...
Find a buddy that has a truck and rent the tow dolly ($25-35 for the day)... Who go through all the trouble to make the 4-banger run/drive only to park it for a motor swap some 30 miles away. Not to mention, you have to also worry about it making it the 30 miles under its own power...

Or just find someone who AAA and see if you can use there free tow...

A filter is not a problem here since the line would be spliced a cheap nipple ended filter used for carbed cars would be a synch. On the other hand, a new and forgotten concern comes to mind because of how long the car has been sitting. Some times the old fuel left in the tank converts back to symbolic crude in the form of a black tarry substance and there is no way around it that I'm aware of except a new tank.

Before you do anything, beat on the tank just below the pump with a rubber mallet while applying power to the pump (key on for 2 second prime or apply power to pump test position on ALDL)

I've resurrected a few dead pumps this way. The keys to success using this method are be ready to go the moment it starts, DO NOT stop or shut off the car until you arrive and have lots of luck with you at all times.

In the spirit of full disclosure I must state that I have only used this method to get cars off trailers or drive them into the shop. I have never tried to go any distance. Your mileage may vary...

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1986 SE Aero coupe.

3.4 DOHC swap is complete and running, now just have to finish the rest of the car...

If it were me I would buy some rubber fuel hose and set a can in the trunk nice and securely and run it from that, and just tie the hood down so it doesnt close fully.... I believe and I am not certain that there is a zinc plate of some kind in the trunk wall between the engine and trunk in the middle somewhere, so you could pop that out and there is a hole ready to go no drilling or anything.. pop it back in once you are done. Now I am not certain of this zinc but I think I remember it...

quote Originally posted by fiero2kewl: If the fuel is being pulled through the old pump, I wouldnt be worried about the gunk cause of the sock on the bottom of the pump.

Yeah, assuming the sock itself isn't plugged or ripped.

quote Originally posted by fiero2kewl: I think the rubber piece that connects the fuel pump to the metal fuel line of the sending unit would be an issue if its disintegrated.

Yes, good point. I was wondering about that short piece of rubber tube myself.

quote Originally posted by Patrick:

If you wan to get it home, you will need to get it running, which means dropping the tank, replacing the pump and gas, then trouble shooting from there. This would the be safest way to move it on it's own power. Now... we haven't addressed the rest of the car (brakes, etc)... so, even then you may have to fix other things.

I think that is why people were suggesting you don't try to get it running, but instead, trailer it back home. You have to cross the border, if they pull you aside for an inspection, with a rigged up fuel system, you may have more problems than you want to deal with.

How much would it cost to rent a truck/trailer?

another thing to ponder. if you end up dropping the tank to put in a pump, then are going to change to a 2.8, the 4 cyl pump won't work with the 2,8, so you'll have to do it again.

quote Originally posted by tesmith66: Before you do anything, beat on the tank just below the pump with a rubber mallet while applying power to the pump (key on for 2 second prime or apply power to pump test position on ALDL) I've resurrected a few dead pumps this way. The keys to success using this method are be ready to go the moment it starts, DO NOT stop or shut off the car until you arrive and have lots of luck with you at all times. In the spirit of full disclosure I must state that I have only used this method to get cars off trailers or drive them into the shop. I have never tried to go any distance. Your mileage may vary...

Off a trailer maybe, but no... I will not be using this method before a 30 mile journey across a border.

quote Originally posted by bjc 350: It's not worth the extra effort- just rent or borrow a tow dolly or trailer and be done with it in a safe manner. Just my .02 cent thought.

Sorry, I am cheap, but I too would tow it to my home.

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84 Formula Clone, 3800SC, VS Cam, 3.2 Pulley, 4T65E-HD, HP Tuners, AEM Wideband, , Regal GS Gauges, S-10 Brake Booster. 12.53 at 106.5 1/4 mile

Can you drive and unregistered & uninsured car across the boarder?

quote Originally posted by ALJR: Can you drive an unregistered & uninsured car across the boarder?

These are valid points.

I haven't done this before, but no, I'd certainly need to have the paperwork in order before I can bring it across the border. I found information Here regarding importing a vehicle into BC.

I would also need to buy a one day permit for insurance to drive it.

I suppose it would be a whole lot easier to trailer it over the border, as I wouldn't need insurance then (or bother with needing to get it running, etc). Might be best to direct that money and effort into renting a trailer/truck.

Hmmm...

[EDIT] Anyone in the Bellingham WA to Abbotsford BC area with a truck and trailer/tow dolly interested? PM or email me and let me know what it would be worth to you to move this Fiero just over 30 miles. No date as of yet, but it probably wouldn't be for at least another month.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-05-2013).]

If you don't have AAA it may be worth getting it and have them move the car for you. Easy, safe and fast. Plus you'll still have two free tows left under the basic plan. I don't know how they work going over the border, but I'm sure you wouldn't be the first to do that. Good luck.