First of all. go take a course at a college to learn the intracacies from a professional. your equipment has to be top notch. Build a paint booth with filtered air coming in and a exhaust means. dont use epoxy primer in your main gun. it will catalyze the air passages and screw you good. Clean the surface first with soap then a degreaser. Make sure your follow the wet sand on your primer. it will kill your finish if you dont. if you want the best finish use ppg deltron. see my lamborghini fiero paint job.

metallics are tricky. talk to a paint man before anything. the factory uses robots to paint so dont expect to duplicate their color ar result. impossible without an expert painter.

My paint thread to offer some help.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/124618.html

Sandpaper will plug. That's just the nature of the beast. You can try hitting it with another piece of sandpaper to clear it but it's faster just to buy a lot of sandpaper and plan on throwing it away when it plugs like that.

I agree with a lot posted above. If its gumming up the paper, your using wrong (non automotive) sandpaper or the paint was a cheap enamel job (that never dries). Trying to sand separate parts is just yet another reason I dont disassemble a car for paint. Wait till you try and use a buffer on a front fender laying on a sawhorse.... or send a headlite cover flying across the room. As for sanding with a DA, I have a 6" and use stickit paper. I can machine sand almost a whole Fiero if you know how to use it. The only real problem area to me is in the openings of a GT front bumper cover. A lot of it is just to keep the sander moving...stopping in one place will dig divits into the body. Of course block sanding the primer will fix those, but it will take more than a few times priming it.

On a side note, I just got a product update from my paint store. 2 part catalyzed primer (SpectraPrime) is going to $81 @ quart and catalyst is extra. And to think I was bitchin when they raised my primer price to $47 @ gallon. So now the average Joe has to spend $600 for paint and another $400 for primer to paint his car.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I agree with a lot posted above. If its gumming up the paper, your using wrong (non automotive) sandpaper or the paint was a cheap enamel job (that never dries).

Is there a test to determine if the paint is enamel? The paper is gumming specifically where body work was previously done on the car.

Will the enamel react with subsequent primers and paints that I apply?

Does the almighty "Dupont epoxy primer" or other catalyzed sealer prevent enamel lower layers from interacting with the stuff I apply?

Yes, water sand. those "Clumps" will actually make more of a mess by sanding grooves into everything. You Can "DA" 90% of the paint off, Then wetsand with a block BEFORE putting a primer back on.

Like Lou says, a previous enamel job will react to new primer and new basecoat/clearcoat paint. No primer will seal enamel off from new products. There are some rare SEALERs that will. I cant recall a name, but I used to use a Geman made product from Sherwin Williams that was pink and almost looked like waterbase latex. I dont even know if its still around...and it was expensive. Still better idea to sand off all the old enamel. One way to tell if its enamel is the wet sand an area. If the area or water turns white, its a 99% chance its a basecoat clearcoat. If it sands off in a color, its probably enamel. However that enamel CAN be catalyzed and theres no way to tell until you try to put a coat of primer on it. Enamel will blister under primer almost like paint stripper. In some cases, I can put on very light coats of lacquer primer and gradually build up a barrier, but you need to know what your doing or it will all go to waste. So again, best to get rid of it if it sands off in a color. Also be aware if you sand THRU the clear, you will start to sand off the color making you think its enamel.

If the bodywork is gumming up the paper, its likely that the filler used was improperly mixed and didnt harden correctly. If thats a problem, you have to remove all that filler and redo it.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Is there a test to determine if the paint is enamel? The paper is gumming specifically where body work was previously done on the car. Will the enamel react with subsequent primers and paints that I apply? Does the almighty "Dupont epoxy primer" or other catalyzed sealer prevent enamel lower layers from interacting with the stuff I apply?

Strip off anything that's not factory paint.
Don't use Dupont epoxy primer. The PPG DP is the only epoxy primer I recommend. I do use Dupont hi-build over bodywork for blocking purposes, & I always seal it with the PPG epoxy before painting.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts

I saw a video where a guy used paint thinner to determine if paint was enamel or two part catalyzed type.

Is just rubbing a paint thinner wetted rag on my suspect previous body work area enough to determine conclusively if the paint in that area is enamel?

It may, but not foolproof. If enamel is very old the thinner may not react with it right away. On cars I paint with basecoat/clearcoat, I clean paint and overspray off with lacquer thinner, so it softens too. I will give you that an aged hardened paint can be wiped with lacquer thinner, but you cant get it too wet or set on it too long or it will wrinkle just like enamel. I have cleaned highway paint or spray can vandalized paint with a rag dampened with lacquer thinner on both paints. If you rub either very long you can feel it softening.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: It may, but not foolproof. If enamel is very old the thinner may not react with it right away. On cars I paint with basecoat/clearcoat, I clean paint and overspray off with lacquer thinner, so it softens too. I will give you that an aged hardened paint can be wiped with lacquer thinner, but you cant get it too wet or set on it too long or it will wrinkle just like enamel. I have cleaned highway paint or spray can vandalized paint with a rag dampened with lacquer thinner on both paints. If you rub either very long you can feel it softening.

The softening you are referring to is the factory paint? I have gotten highway paint more times than I care to count on my Avalanche. I use a clay bar to get it off with lots of elbow grease. So is it safe to use lacquer thinner? Sorry for thread jack!

quote Originally posted by LornesGT: The softening you are referring to is the factory paint? I have gotten highway paint more times than I care to count on my Avalanche. I use a clay bar to get it off with lots of elbow grease. So is it safe to use lacquer thinner? Sorry for thread jack!

What year Avalanche?

You should be able to find a PPG dealer in the yellow pages under Auto Body Supplies and Equipment. No one can tell you how much paint is needed...way too many variables...skill level, gun, compressor, color, color change. Some people automatically buy a gallon. Id say the most common is 2 quarts. I can easily do a Fiero with 1 quart of color except for a very few odd colors. Paints are getting far too expensive to buy what you dont need. I just got a supplier price in the mail for 2k primer going to $80 per quart. I generally use SW and most colors cost me around $60 @ quart, clear is $75 @ gallon.

I only wear a mask when painting. Ive never worn one sanding or primering (lacquer primer) in 45 years. Im perfectly healthy too. Doctor tells me im as good as someone 25 years younger. I will wear one grinding a lot of fiberglass.

2 quarts of base does a fiero with room to spare. Get alot of clear becauce you will want it.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I only wear a mask when painting. Ive never worn one sanding or primering (lacquer primer) in 45 years. Im perfectly healthy too. Doctor tells me im as good as someone 25 years younger. I will wear one grinding a lot of fiberglass.

this is flat out stupid, don't do this. wear a mask at minimum, they're cheap, you only get one set of lungs, if you're gonna waste them, waste them on something more fun then paint dust and fumes. next you'll be saying to use cut off wheels without a face shield or safety glasses...
------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...

Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 03-08-2013).]

X2. Always always always wear saftey gear. I say bare minimum is a charcoal filter mask for anything airborne. Sanding and grinding a dust mask is fine. When you stary to spray go buy a tyvek suit with a hood from lowes and wear the thickest rubber gloves you can find. Always wear eye protection when spraying as well.

This stuff is a potent carcinogen and very toxic. Your body absorbs moisture (aka paint and poisons) through your skin, eyes, ears, and mouth. You can never be too safe with this stuff. I could tell you some horror stories.

When I use a cutoff wheel or grinder, I use it so it dont come toward my eyes, so yes, I also rarely use safety glasses. I do wear googles when sandblasting. Ive made it to 66 years old with no problems whatever. If I die next month, Ive had a great time. Funny thing is Ill prob live to be 100 with no problems. I never even wore a mask painting until they came out with catalyzed paint. I never wore one painting lacquer or acrylic enamel. I dont recommend it, just stateing my experience. Everything is near or better than it should be from heart rate, colesterol, bp, eyesight, hearing. I dont even need glasses to read or fly. I can go run 5 miles if I want right now. I can hold a hood or door up by myself while I bolt it on. I can carry my GF across the yard. I can flip her leg wrestling. I push my airplane in the hanger by myself. So, Im as healthy as some of you 30 year olds or better. I dont take any medication at all, seldom even an aspirin. Once in a while in the summer, i might need some eye drops during allergy season, even though I have no allergies, during a long trail hike. I ride a bike on 4-5 hour road trips. I sleep4-5 hours a day for last 30 years. I am within 2 pnds of my recommended weight for my height. Sex is no fun if it dont last 2-3 hours.

So there

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-08-2013).]

Hummmm. Roger, you can boast about your physical health all you want... but we still worry.

LOL. Things like glasses and masks are recommendations. Its hard to break old habits. I will tell you that you HAVE to positively wear a respirator mask with catalyzed paint. I shot my first Imron job in prob 69 without one in my usual way. I had a hacking cough for weeks afterward. I learned that lesson.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: What year Avalanche?

2008 Z71 love the truck but the gas is killing me.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I only wear a mask when painting. Ive never worn one sanding or primering (lacquer primer) in 45 years. Im perfectly healthy too. Doctor tells me im as good as someone 25 years younger. I will wear one grinding a lot of fiberglass.

Hopefully your avatar is not your real picture due to no mask.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: When I use a cutoff wheel or grinder, I use it so it dont come toward my eyes, so yes, I also rarely use safety glasses. I do wear googles when sandblasting. Ive made it to 66 years old with no problems whatever. If I die next month, Ive had a great time. Funny thing is Ill prob live to be 100 with no problems. I never even wore a mask painting until they came out with catalyzed paint. I never wore one painting lacquer or acrylic enamel. I dont recommend it, just stateing my experience. Everything is near or better than it should be from heart rate, colesterol, bp, eyesight, hearing. I dont even need glasses to read or fly. I can go run 5 miles if I want right now. I can hold a hood or door up by myself while I bolt it on. I can carry my GF across the yard. I can flip her leg wrestling. I push my airplane in the hanger by myself. So, Im as healthy as some of you 30 year olds or better. I dont take any medication at all, seldom even an aspirin. Once in a while in the summer, i might need some eye drops during allergy season, even though I have no allergies, during a long trail hike. I ride a bike on 4-5 hour road trips. I sleep4-5 hours a day for last 30 years. I am within 2 pnds of my recommended weight for my height. Sex is no fun if it dont last 2-3 hours. So there

Cliff notes:

you brag about being a moron.

let me guess, you don't wear hearing protection either?



To the OP, if you don't already know, it's a really bad idea to not where your PPE, others will tell you that you will be fine, but the risk is not worth the reward. perfect example, I was using a cut-off wheel in a grinder the other day, going nice and slow using minimal pressure, and the wheel came apart. sending fragments in all directions, including into my face shield. if I had not been wearing the shield, I could very well be blind right now.

Found a local place that sells PPG!

Nope, never any hearing protection. I dont even use the headphones in my plane. I have to wear them at a shooting range because theyre required. Exploding disks are the reason I never use one at an angle that can hit me. I hear just fine, its tested every 2 years for my pilots license. I can hear people walking across my parking lot at nite. Ill bet I see and hear better than you. My worse reaction to sanding without a dust mask is the dust in the tissue when I blow my nose. Like I said, if Im doing a lot of fiberglass, I will wear one because the glass fibers get in your lungs. They dont desolve like common dust does inside you. Maybe some chemicals are beneficial....I havent even had a common cold in years.

You can do it your way, Ill do it the way I want thats worked for the last 50 years. Ill reserve you the right to say 'told ya so' when I cut off a finger.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 03-09-2013).]

Sweet you found a premium brand! How much did that stuff run you? Is that body filler in the bag?

Yeah, the Evercoat stuff in the squeeze out is SMC/Fiberglass filler. It was $37 with tax.

The PPG is ungodly expensive, it was like 57 or 77 for the quart plus more for the catalyst.
I debated getting it, but since the work I'm doing is going on after two paint jobs, some body damage repair, and some panels that have been chipped down to the bare fiberglass, I figured I needed, the best, stickiest, best sealing primer I can get.

If my car only had stock paint which was in good enough shape to work with on it, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

Ok roger dodger I have a hard one for you.. Where I work we have a 2K primer I believe kirker or proform but don't hold me to that and I have used the brand before and got great results with it as a single stage but on my fiero I want to use their clear with the euro clear additive or wet look additive. Sorry getting side tracked here but what do you think on the primer? We also have the etching primer but I really don't trust that on plastic.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Yeah, the Evercoat stuff in the squeeze out is SMC/Fiberglass filler. It was $37 with tax. The PPG is ungodly expensive, it was like 57 or 77 for the quart plus more for the catalyst. I debated getting it, but since the work I'm doing is going on after two paint jobs, some body damage repair, and some panels that have been chipped down to the bare fiberglass, I figured I needed, the best, stickiest, best sealing primer I can get. If my car only had stock paint which was in good enough shape to work with on it, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

I'm glad you decided to go with the good stuff, you won't regret it. You will want to follow the instructions EXACTLY in order to get the best finish. If it says mix it 4:1 and to do 2 medium wet coats don't mix it 4:1.5 and do 3 coats. Follow it EXACTLY. You may want to go over the MSDS for primer and catalyst. Sometimes they have tips on application technique plus it always helps to know what you are dealing with in terms of hazards.

As for that filler, let me know how that goes and what kind of results you get. The plastic filler I use is called "U-POL" and is great quality for the price. Their finer "glaze" is good stuff too and they both use the same hardener.

Subscribed.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Yeah, the Evercoat stuff in the squeeze out is SMC/Fiberglass filler. It was $37 with tax.

Will this product work on the rear decklid? I'm looking for a product myself.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089703.html

I'll be watching your progress. Thanks for posting this. I'm probably worse off then you as far as bodywork novice goes. But I got some sandpaper and a dream!

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Yeah, the Evercoat stuff in the squeeze out is SMC/Fiberglass filler. It was $37 with tax. The PPG is ungodly expensive, it was like 57 or 77 for the quart plus more for the catalyst. I debated getting it, but since the work I'm doing is going on after two paint jobs, some body damage repair, and some panels that have been chipped down to the bare fiberglass, I figured I needed, the best, stickiest, best sealing primer I can get. If my car only had stock paint which was in good enough shape to work with on it, I probably wouldn't have bothered.

We pay about 120 a quart for similar DBC on high metalic stuff (not to say you got a deal), it is just common to spend alot on paint. Unfortunately no amounts "sealing primer" is going to keep hidden solvents from leaking out of old body work.... In your case the age should have dried up any goo laying inside there, but you shouldnt expect to bandaid problems with material. Epoxy primer takes a bit of time, and the amount of use it has on a fiero is probably fairly low as a base, but it will offer a good uniform color platform for the potential blocking exercise to come.

I recommend that you use evercoat high build from this point onward.. it will help take the scratches down quite a bit, and take the flatness of your body work to the next level. I used a full gallon on my car and then some mostly because i made mistakes, but a gallon will take out all of the mess that your DA created in terms of waves and low spots.

I wont use any catalyzed primer. Kirker is a very low quality acrylic enamel. Its good for used cars as far as im concerned. I painted my race car with it once, and after a few days it was almost flat white. I never waste time buffing a race car, it needed some paint work every week . Ive never used any of their clear. Clear should have a wet look on its own, and any special wet look additive is a waste of money. I NEVER put on more than 3 coats of clear on a street car. Your just asking for it to crack, split or crowfoot down the road. I even only put 3 on one im going to color sand (taking a coat back off). Those 10-40 coat of clear jobs belong on show cars that never see the outdoors in my opinion. When they do crack (and they will) they are a total pita to remove. You think sanding off a bad 2 coat acrylic enamel job is hard, wait till you try 10. With that many coats of paint on a panel, Ill throw it away and buy a new one. If its something rare on a metal car, it gets chemical or soda stripped.

Any progress?