The 1988 Fiero GT I bought had a few issues. My primary concern was the mechanicals and that turned out to be injectors and vacuum lines. With that and the AC fixed I decided it's time to make the Black Hole live up to it's name. My wife is wishing she didn't name it that now. :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:
Here's what I was up against:
This was on the roof and the hood. Peeling clear coat was common and they re-painted millions of cars under warranty. My old 1989 GMC Jimmy was one of them. Fast forward to today. I have a Fiero that some half witted painter tried to spot in (badly) with what appears to be a lacquer top coat. That's hard to see in this "before" photo, taken from a distance but it looks like hammered mule poop.
The first thing I did was grab a drill and some 25 grit grinding disks to hollow out the spots broken down by UV exposure. I then feathered it out with some 100 grit sand paper. The recommended product for fixing all this mess is to use a product from Evercoat called Fiber-Tech.
So I mixed up a batch and pressed/spread it in. It's a lot like chopped fiberglass in consistency. That makes it hard to work with but this stuff is super strong. Once I had it in it worked a lot like regular filler. I knocked the top off with 100 grit after about five minutes and then worked it down with 180 grit after that. The instructions say it top coats with some regular Evercoat body filler. I'll get to that after I sand down the rest of the car.
Another problem was the right hand wing stand. It was busted. Thanks to a great member of these forums, Diabloroadster, I have a brand new one, no charge. It's nice to see the Pontiac spirit of brotherhood extends into my Fiero brothers.
With the hood having the same issues as the roof, I decided to look around at the local salvage yards. I located a 1984 in a local yard and darned if it didn't have a pretty fair hood for $50. Saved me some work.
And in the meantime I've been pulling off the trim. I managed to get one of the sail panel windows out with no problems. The second one was within about an inch of being cut loose with the Spider Wire fishing line and darned if it didn't crack all the way across. So who has the best replacements? And here's a photo of how it looks as of tonight. From here I intend to spend a weekend with some 320 grit sandpaper and a DA sander. Then I'll be moving towards Blocker's shop (http://www.blockersperformance.com) for primer and paint.
For anyone who saw the previous version of this post, I apologize, I did a copy and past from my club forums and then had a phone call. I just came back to edit this so it made sense. I'll update this from time to time with more photos.
[This message has been edited by Super Duty Critter (edited 08-24-2012).]
I've been thinking the same myself, and was wondering if it would be harder to get everything to match if you paint the panels off. Wouldn't it be harder to get the same amount of paint on every panel?
First I washed the car a couple of times with Dawn dishwashing liquid to remove any wax/grease that might be hanging around. Honestly, I don't think this car has seen wax in the past couple of decades but it pays to be careful.
I managed to remove the inner door panels to get at the nuts to remove the mirrors. Not much to that. Then I removed the nose emblem. Not much to that since it's just a speed nut on the back of the plastic stud. I pulled the tail lights to get at the GT emblem on the back:
Unfortunately, when I removed them I found this:
So how do you go about fixing the broken tabs that the retaining screws fasten into? What a lousy design. Anyone with a lick of sense could see these were destined to fail.
With everything stripped off I moved on to sanding. I only managed to do the nose since I had other obligations today. One thing I did learn. Those sanding sponges work wonders around the contoured parts. I'll be heading back to the store for more of those.
Easier- panels on Looks better/ better result panel off
If you shoot it all together it's a heck of a lot of taping. I like to remove everything except for the roof panels. You get a much better job that way. You *really* need to pull the headlight doors & rear bumper at the very least. (the rear bumper to remove the reflectors - it's next to impossible to tape them up & get paint up into the indentions.) EDIT: You can make a tab from sheetmetal to screw to the taillight to replace the broken piece. HTH, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
I heard of a guy that made different "saw horses" to stand the panels on as he sprayed them. He positioned the fenders doors hood and deck in such a way as to mimic their positions on the car, that way he could get them painted more evenly.
------------------ I have a 1987 Fiero, 4 cylinder 5 speed. With an 88 engine.
I need help figuring out how these belt line parts come off. And what about door handles? I wonder if they should be painted over or removed from the car?
You have to pull the panels & remove them from the back. Although you *might* be able to do the bumper trim on the car; can't recall if I've ever tried it... ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Stopped tonight for a couple of photos. I did manage to scuff out the driver's side:
And darned if the back end didn't fall off:
The more I look at it the more I think the hood, front fascia and rear fascia will be painted off the car. The car itself will have to go on the wooden cribs I built to set my Trans Am on when I did the 4L80e transmission swap. That will get it up in the air enough to easily paint the rockers.
It's beginning to look like I should plan on pulling all the panels, huh?
Yep. The problem with painting the ground F/X on the car (besides getting enough paint on all the corners & cracks) is where they meet the doors & fenders. You get a paint buildup there & at the very least you can't take them off in the future. You also can't sand & buff that corner very well. I just think with all the work involved in prepping a car for paint, it's worth the extra effort to remove the panels to get a quality job. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
So do you think my idea of doing the hood, front and rear fascia off the car holds water? I'm thinking if I can get the car slightly up in the air I can hit those rockers better and still reach the top of the car.
I used my rudimentary Photoshop skills to come up with this. What's everyone's opinion on this paint scheme? Anyone want to guess how much tougher it makes the job?
I got sidetracked with removing and installing a new dishwasher for the wife, then I tracked down some used nerf bars for my pickup and had to pick those up and install them. But today I got back to my Fiero project. It was all about sanding out the rear facia. My goodness, there sure are a lot of contours on this part. It took a couple of hours but I think I scuffed it out enough to hold paint.
Today's work started with me taping off the roof to keep from having any accidents with sandpaper getting into the glass. Taping alone took an hour. I see why people want to paint panels off a car. Taping stuff up is a pain.
I've tried to be careful with my sanding but despite going slow and hand sanding almost the entire car I have managed to break through the factory primer and get into the raw SMC panel in a few places.
The area next to the edge of the top of the windshield has proven to be the most difficult.
This is how the top looked after the initial sanding. This was the first overall sanding of the top of the car. I had sanded the places I filled with the Fiber-tech before.
I top coated the places that I used Fiber-tech with another Evercoat product, Gold Rage body filler.
Harbor Freight sells some plastic pry tools that have proven to be invaluable in this project. I've used them for prying off trim, door panels and now to dig out body filler from between panels to keep the seam lines looking correct.
And here it is all sanded out. For anyone interested in the time it takes and why you pay so much for a paint job, this was six hours of work. And this car is in pretty good shape. So when some restoration shop quotes you $8,000 for a paint job, start doing the math.
If everyone is tired of me updating this, I'll hush up. I thought it might be good for other first timers like me.
yes keep it coming man any more info on the filler you used? i have some of the glazing or spot putty but everybody says to stay away from that so i guess i need more supplies lol
Anything that's a gouge or a deep repair, you need to get that Fiber-tech in there. The instructions on that package say you can top coat with a regular body filler. They give some part numbers on the package. I sold what I had left so I don't have access to those numbers anymore. Bottom line from what I read is that SMC needs Fiber-tech for any major repair. The top coat is just to finish it off. I am still going to have to spot putting in a few places. And all that said, this is my first time on a Fiero. I know working a classic car to bare metal but I've never done diddly with SMC. I'm learning with you.
The spot putty is only for minor little defects that fill primer won't fill. Or at least that's how I've used it on my metal hot rods.
I've always used a flex additive in paints on panels like these but I'm seeing a bunch of threads here where experts are saying it's not needed. My experience is with GTO noses and Firebird filler panels/valences. So I'm guessing the SMC has some magical property that the old cars didn't have? Anyone know?
Any paint supply store that has Evercoat products should be able to help you out. I called my regular auto parts store, Bumper To Bumper, and their paint store had it. Most major parts store chains have at least one location that specializes in paint/body stuff. As a matter of fact, O'Reilly's has it as well. I found it on that web site before I called my supplier.
I agree. Keep the posts coming. I've been thinking of tackling one of my Fieros and was wrestling with the panel on/panel off questions. I have a white 85GT that I'd love to shoot with pearl or metalic white. The white paint on my wife's Altima has metalic and pearl shimmer that looks great.
Funny you should mention a pearl white. I am looking at something similar for my TA when I get around to doing a re-paint on it. I really like the Caddilac Diamond tri-coat but then started reading how difficult it is to shoot and it's almost impossible to match if you get a damaged panel.
I'll keep the posts coming since some of you cats are interested in learning, like me. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go.
It might be a few weeks before I update again. I've done most of the prep work I can do here at home. From here I intend to transport the car to my brother in law's shop where I can do the final prep and start shooting primer and paint. I could do it at home in a garage but since I have access to a professional paint booth and equipment, I'll take it. And I can have him looking over my shoulder to keep me out of trouble. So until I can get some free time to move the car and spend a weekend painting I'll be on hold.
[This message has been edited by Super Duty Critter (edited 09-03-2012).]
No pictures but I'm still at it. The front facia and hood are off the car. I've filled a couple other small spots and sanded them out. Getting close to carrying it to the shop for it's first coat of fill primer. I'll try to get a few photos posted when I get a chance.
Hey Carrolles, shoot me a PM when your coming through. Maybe we can meet for lunch/dinner or something.
I've been thinking the same myself, and was wondering if it would be harder to get everything to match if you paint the panels off. Wouldn't it be harder to get the same amount of paint on every panel?
The only time I consider painting panels off is a color change on a show car. Like you think, you always have the chance of mismatched panels. Ive painted parts one day, and painted more the next day out of the same can that dont match. Also to consider is scratching or chipping paint trying to reassemble it. I never understood people who insist that places that are never seen like the insides of a door or fender, have to all be painted. The only time those areas are seen are if you have to take it apart to repair damage and your probably going to replace it anyway. There are lots of colors that MUST be painted all together like most pearl colors, any Kandy colors, and lots of metallics.
I've never had problems matching panels with a panel-off job. You DO have to use the same air pressure, same amount of reducer, etc., shoot the panels the same way, & hang the panels the same way they are hung on the car (a panel like the door, if laid flat, will let the metallic settle more & make the panel darker). Also, if there is a drastic difference in temperature or humidity, it can make the panels dry differently & make them darker or lighter (higher temps will dry quicker & let the metallic stay more to the top, making the panel lighter). Of course, on a solid color, none of this is relevant. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
I agree with most of that. It might not be a problem if theyre all shot together at the same time. But, your unlikely to have the same temp and humidity on two different days. Both affect color, however slight it might be. Ive had cars match perfectly indoors and outdoors in the sun only to have a drastic mismatch at night under lights. I did a Mustang door in the factory 4 stage candy red. It was dead on perfect in the shop under fluorescent light and outside in the sun from every angle. Soon as it got dark, lights made it orange. I dont mean slightly tinted off color...I mean orange on a red car. How do you fix that.(rhetorical)
I still dont see the purpose or reasoning of painting the back/insides of parts no one ever will see. I have no problems painting anything I CAN see including tight spots on front door jams. You would have to use an examining mirror to find unpainted spots. Another plus is I can drive the car an hour after its shot.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 09-13-2012).]
Keep in mind that I'm not shooting this at home or on multiple days or doing a color change. I'm going back with the original black and will be shooting all the panels, even those that are off the car, at the same time in a booth. It's good to have a brother in law who's in the business of restoring cars.
My main reason for removing the front and rear fascia is to make it easier to get paint in all those contours and underneath. Since it was easier to remove the front fascia with it out of the way, I pulled the hood as well.
Oh, and I reassembled my Trans Am after all the panels were painted off the car. I do understand what Roger is saying. It's darned near impossible to reassemble without a few chips. I'll just have to do my best.
[This message has been edited by Super Duty Critter (edited 09-13-2012).]
Keep in mind that I'm not shooting this at home or on multiple days or doing a color change. I'm going back with the original black and will be shooting all the panels, even those that are off the car, at the same time in a booth. It's good to have a brother in law who's in the business of restoring cars.
My main reason for removing the front and rear fascia is to make it easier to get paint in all those contours and underneath. Since it was easier to remove the front fascia with it out of the way, I pulled the hood as well.
Oh, and I reassembled my Trans Am after all the panels were painted off the car. I do understand what Roger is saying. It's darned near impossible to reassemble without a few chips. I'll just have to do my best.
What I do is tape towels between the parts when hanging doors & such, & lay blankets over the car when hanging hoods. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
so what do you do to mount bumper covers since they mount directly on other parts. cloths there wont protect the edges. I use towels and pads too, but to keep from denting the panels when I install them prior to painting. If I have parts off that will have painted edges showing, i just spray the edges before I intall it. Its called ' trimming in ' the panel. Ill spray the edges of a new fender for example, hang it on, align it perfect, mask off the new paint, then paint the whole car. They make special tape to eliminate an edge, but I find just a few swipes of wet sandpaper kills that edge completely if its that big a problem.
I've never scratched anything with a bumper cover. And I've never DENTED any panels installing them... But if you're concerned, you can run a piece of 2" masking tape along the edges of the fenders. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
A detail question. What should the plastic belt trim and those triangle plastic pieces in front of the door windows be painted with? Same paint as the body or are they a flat black like the mirrors?
Theyre the natural black plastic. If you paint them any other color, everytime someone bumps them (thats what they are for) it will chip off leaving an ugly black spot. If you HAVE to paint them, paint them a satin black. If you like them shiney like people do with ArmorAll on everything, paint them gloss black
I'm still plugging along. Rain today so I stayed inside the garage and used plastic polish on all the belt line parts. For the most part they cleaned up well enough to re-use. I do have one front, side marker light that was broken in half. I'm not sure how that happened. I'm trying to glue it but I suspect it will need replacing. I also used plastic epoxy on those tips that broke off when I removed the tail lights. Jury is out on whether or not that will hold.
If you buy one of those Harbor Freight purple paint gun follow the instructions. They say take it apart and clean it before use. I did that. All that gunk in the cup, top left of the photo, came out of it. I can't imagine what that would have done to the primer I was going to shoot through it. I may just hold off and use Bryan's guns.
And can anyone tell me the purpose of the rusted out chunk of bare metal I found behind the chromed plates that fit above the exhaust tips? This came off the rear fascia.
