I have an intermittent squealing and clattering coming from the general area of the waterpump and alternator. The alternator seems to be okay going by the volt gauge and the car is running fine. I am also not seeing any coolant anywhere, but a co-worker told me that it sounds like the waterpump is going.

Here is a video clip, the noise is more pronounced in person and when I start the car it is a steady whining that quickly becomes intermittent.
http://youtu.be/tpDbNdBDGI4

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 11-10-2012).]

Loose belt. Or glazed belt.

P

[This message has been edited by thx569 (edited 11-10-2012).]

The water pump bearing may be failing. With the belt off grab hold of the pulley and try to shake it. If it wobbles around then the pump bearing is about to fail.

Just remove the belt and spin the water pump. YOu will know. I just had to replace one of mine. Was making bad noise but no leaks at all. Bearings where shot.

Water pumps on the 2.8 don't have bearings. They have bushings, and yes they do get noisy. Mine sounded like someone shaking a tin can full of marbles. I thought I had pulled a couple of rocker studs out of the head but found play in the water pump shaft. It must have been going bad for quite some time because after I put in a new pump, I could not believe how quiet the car was under power.
Harry

Thanks, I will test it out tomorrow.

I know that the video was a bit misleading due to the limitations of my camera and the exhaust being so loud. In person it really doesn't sound like a belt, there is a lot of rattling and clattering in that location.

quote Originally posted by HarryT: Water pumps on the 2.8 don't have bearings. They have bushings ...

Just a note. It is proper to call bushings of this type bearings. They are often referred to as "plain bearings" or "sleeve bearings."

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-11-2012).]

Last year my alt, died so I replaced it. Well in all my infinite wisdom I overtightend the belt. 2 weeks later I got a intermitten chirping, it was very obvious. Not days later I got antifreeze leaking out of the waterpump weep hole. My overtightening cooked the waterpump bearing...

Thankfully the fine folks here were extremely helpful and I replaced it myself in the driveway. Like I was told then by other PFFers, make sure to get the waterpump with a metal impeller. I guess the plastic impellers spin on the shaft eventually.

If you do need to replace the WP be sure to get one with the metal impeller not plastic.

Does the car need to be jacked to replace the waterpump? I unfortunately don't have a jack, other than a jack that came with my Cavalier but I learned my lesson with those a long time ago when I jacked my Fiero up with the jack that it came with to do some quick work (definitely didn't get under the car) and it buckled and bent and was driven into the pavement.

quote Originally posted by FieroGTChile87: Does the car need to be jacked to replace the waterpump? I unfortunately don't have a jack, other than a jack that came with my Cavalier but I learned my lesson with those a long time ago when I jacked my Fiero up with the jack that it came with to do some quick work (definitely didn't get under the car) and it buckled and bent and was driven into the pavement.

For me, no I didnt have to jack the car up at all. It did take ALOT of patients to get the mating surface clean though. Be very careful not to gouge or mar the surface. If I remember correctly I did a not so great write up called, weep hole questions, or something along those lines. Theres a pic I took from someone else here, I printed the pic and taped it to a piece of cardboard. This way I didnt mix the bolts around.

Also you may wanna look at getting rid of the factory torxs bolts. You can do it, hell I did it and im an electrician not a mechanic. I did it in my driveway with basic handtools. I took my sweet time and read all I could by using the search function here on PFF. I have heard the job referred to as a "rite of passage", lol.

Its alot more intimidating then it actually is!

[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 11-11-2012).]

Oh believe me, I fully intend to do it and utilize the search function.

This forum has probably saved me over a grand in the past year alone, and I know NOTHING about cars.

In the past year I've had to;

Replace the IAC valve, the Temperature Sensor, Ignition Coil, ICM, Pickup coil which of course meant taking the distributor apart and setting the timing, Heater Core, and give the car a complete tuneup......... I couldn't have done any of it without this board and its members. I got tired of the $300 + bills each and every time along with the incessant whining on how horrible Fieros are to work on, so I decided to start tackling these issues myself.

After all of that, I'm sure that I can handle the water pump with a bit of patience.

Ok, so it definitely is the water pump. Any recommendations as to where to get the water pump, or what brand? I just e-mailed the FieroStore as to whether it has plastic or metal impellers, waiting for a reply.

Local Parts Store so that you can inspect the impeller. Carquest / Napa / Federerated-Fisher / Advance ---Please take note of the retail part store name not on the list. Most will have in stock or available in 24 hours.

Just DON'T BUY A REMANUFACTURED ONE! If it fails because someone reassembled it wrong, you will hate that thing!

If you plan on buying a new alternator, DON'T! You can rebuild it for $20! Just make sure you get the correct kit. Oreilly lists GMA001 I think, but the real one is GMA002. Or its the other way around.

I did that with mine, and it saved me a good bit of money. It includes new brushes, a new regulator, and a new bearing, which will give you an almost new alternator. This is for an '84 duke, so things may be a little different.

Plus, if you replace or rebuild the alternator, and you're actually doing it on a duke, there's a really easy way to do it. I spent an hour trying to figure out how to do it before I had an Einstein moment. Drain the oil, and pull the oil filter. The alternator will drop right out the bottom.

While you're at it, I'd suggest getting one of those Cheater plugs for the oil pan. You know the ones you screw in, but to drain the oil, you just unscrew the cap by hand, and let it drain? Those will make an oil change MUCH easier and less messy

The search isn't going so well. I never received a reply from the Fiero Store, and none of the local auto parts store have any in stock, nor can anyone tell me about whether certain brands have metal or plastic impellers. I got talked into ordering a new Duralast from Autozone for $30 which I instantly regretted, I'm sure it'll probably be plastic. I'll have to wait until they get it it to find out.

ACDELCO Part # 252698 {#88926212} Cast Iron Impeller; Does Not Include Mount Bolts
PUMP KIT,WAT 2 DOORS; EXC PULLEY

$23.79 ( 4 cyl)
ACDELCO Part # 252613 {#88926127} Cast Iron Impeller; Does Not Include Mount Bolts
PUMP KIT,WAT 2 DOORS

$32.79 (6 cyl)

ROCKAUTO

[This message has been edited by steve308 (edited 11-18-2012).]

I hated the chattering belt so I installed a Dodgerunner auto belt tensioner... May as well if you are in there... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/039384.html

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-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread

Does anyone have any tips on how to loosen the top alternator bolt?

I have heated it with a propane torch, and also soaked it in PB blaster over night. The damn thing will not budge.

Those bolts seem to freeze in place. More PB blaster where it threads into the engine (hard to get at). RPO did that on his Forumla when the belt broke during a return from a Central Florida event.at 10 PM. We went back the next day with jacks and stands to loosen the bracket to replace the belt. Fortunately it did break free using a longer rachet. He worked from under neath, and I pried the alternator from the and it finally broke free and was loose enough to move the alternator to install the belt.

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I guess I'll finally break down and buy a jack. I've been doing everything the hard way up until this point, but with a jack it'll really open up what I'll be able to do.

In the meantime I was thinking about just cutting the belt off so that I can start working on the waterpump awhile seeing as I was going to replace the belt anyways.

Is it possible to get a decent jack for $100 or less? I've been pricing jacks and some are up over $500, and many in the $250-$400 range. I saw a duralast for $50 but I don't know how reliable it would be.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 11-22-2012).]

Spend 200, you'll be happy with it. You want a low profile jack, the Fiero is a low car. If you get a 1.5 ton, it will jack up in fewer strokes than a 3 ton. You wont need that much jack anyhow.

Yeah, I actually have jackstands, just no jack. I tried to jack my Fiero up many years ago with the jack that it came with and it buckled and bent, and was driven into the pavement as the car slammed to the ground fortunately with tires on and nothing under it other than the jack.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 11-22-2012).]

Good to hear. I've seen cars fall. I've also seen some pretty precarious ways of lifting them. Time bombs...

Ok, I' bought a jack, and after doing a lot of research and trying it out, I decided that even if it takes me 2 months, I will do this project without jacking the car up.

I tried to jack the rear of the car on level concrete, and all was going well for awhile when the jack started to move slightly with each pump. It still wasn't high enough for jackstands so I decided to lower the car and that was a little hairy, a lot of movement.

That just isn't for me, I don't have enough mechanical know how for such tasks that have little room for error. There are so many little unwritten policies when working on cars that people who are adept at such tasks take for granted, but they are over my head and have to be spelled out for me.

I am willing to try things out and learn in the process, but there are certain things that I refuse to do, such as brakes, because I often learn through error on this car, and in some cases the error could be more than an annoyance or a set back if you know what I mean.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 11-23-2012).]

The jack has to move as the car comes up and down. If it doesn't, it will pull itself out from under the car and it will fall.

It still looked secure on the engine cradle crossbeam or whatever you'd call it, I just saw the wheels rolling a bit with each pump which scared the #$#$ out of me, as I am not accustomed to using a floor jack on a vehicle. Maybe I'll give it another go with this in mind, I just didn't know if it was supposed to be doing that or not and didn't want to take the risk due to the uncertainty. Thank you.

I know that using a jack is basic, elementary stuff so I apologize for my ignorance, I just didn't have any experience. I only started working on my car a year ago, and everything only required working from the top. Previously I used to just send it off to the shop and pay the ridiculous bill.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 11-23-2012).]

By all means, ask! My pleasure honestly. I remember being in your very same spot. The jack lifting mechanism, due to its geometry, lifts, but also moves back towards you, since the cars weight is planted by the wheels, something has to give, so the jack is designed to roll. You should always make certain that the surface that the jack is on will allow for the movement of the jack.

Here's another question:

Do I have to loosen the top AND bottom alternator bolts to remove the belt? The top bolt just doesn't want to budge, I've been trying for 2 days now. I let it soak in PB blaster on 2 separate occasions, and heated it with a propane torch. Haven't tried the bottom one yet.

Can I get the belt off by removing the water pump pulley? If so, how do I remove it? Do I need a special tool?

So far I have only managed to remove the surrounding obstacles and drain the coolant. Every time I work on this car I can usually tack about 20 hours onto the job just because of 1 or 2 stubborn bolts, so I fully expected this.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 11-24-2012).]

It's a serpentine right? There should be an idler pulley. put a socket on the center bolt holding the pulley on. Turn it to the right, it should pull against the spring tension on the idler, loosening the belt. Slip the belt off the pulley, then relieve pressure on the socket.

If it's not a serpentine belt, then figure out which is the pivot bolt on the alt, and loosen that. You won't have to remove it. Taking a pulley off doesnt usually work, normally, you cant get them off, they often rest on a shaft, or a pin. Besides, how are you going to put it back together?

Keep at it. Learning curve, thats all.

[This message has been edited by Stainless1911 (edited 11-24-2012).]

Some tips for replacing a water pump.
1 remove the battery.
2. get a small plastic tarp and use it to cover the fiberglass matting around the wheelhouse and near the battery, otherwise you'll be itchy all day.
3. A breaker bar usually will loosen up the most stubborn alternator bolts.
4. Don't use a torch on the alternator, Electrical parts don't like that much heat.
5. If you can jack up the car for better access through the wheel well by removing the rear right wheel. Nothing wrong with jacking her up provided you use a good jack stand.
Its not fun working on bolts that have been in place for 25-30 years. While the job can be done with only hand tools powerful impact wrenches really help on the stubborn bolts.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I have not had much luck with stuck top alt bolts at slavage yards as someone above mentioned.
They usually seem to twist off in the bracket and then you have that problem to deal with. If you can get the lower bolt under the alt. loose and then work the alt. back and forth to loosen up the top enough to get the belt off I'd try that.
Leave the top alone if you can. That's my advice for what it's worth.....

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 11-25-2012).]

Thanks for the tip on leaving the top alternator bolt alone, I easily removed the belt by loosening the bottom bolt.

Anyways, I finally removed the water pump, and now my next question is; How do I loosen the bolts to the water pump pulley, so that I can remove it from the water pump?

I think the new waterpump comes with a pulley, I think. I dont recall having to swap the pulley over. It was last year though so its possible I have forgotten.

edit.. Now that I recall, yes the pulley needs to be moved, four bolts? Im trying to remember how I did it. I think I jammed a screwdriver in the old pump and used opposing wrenches on the bolts. Sorry its been alot of bolts ago...

[This message has been edited by weloveour86se (edited 12-01-2012).]

Use a bar or larger screwdriver. Place it against one of the bolts heads and the shaft that sticks out of the center of the pulley to hold still and break a couple of the pulley bolts loose. Then reposition the screwdriver as needed. Not that hard to do.

It sounds easy but I got a couple of nice gashes in my hands from trying something very similar and couldn't get any of them loose. They will not budge. The screw driver would give before the bolts would. I'm about to throw the thing against the wall!

I guess the question is how do you prevent the screwdriver from popping out between the bolts and stabbing you in the hand when you're pressing the wrench at full force?

Sorry, just getting frustrated. Someone said to use a strap wrench, I'll see if I can use my old belt as a makeshift strap wrench.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 12-02-2012).]

Wow, I'm at a total loss. It turns out I have a strap wrench, and it did in fact hold the pulley completely still. I put as much as I had into it and none of the 4 bolts will break loose. After repeated efforts, the strap wrench broke. Something tells me my ratchet wrench would break before this thing would give.

I might as well just search for a used or new pulley w/ bolts. The pulley and bolts appear to be in reasonably good condition, but they are not coming apart.

They loosen by turning counter clockwise, right? Seeing as I have to empty out a tool box to remove one part, I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that you have to turn them clockwise, especially considering the amount of force I was using. I have never pushed that hard in my life! They are currently soaking in PB Blaster overnight, but that stuff lets me down more often than not.

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 12-02-2012).]

Geez, I finally got the pulley removed from the pump thanks to my friend's impact wrench (it gave him a hell of a time too) and now I can't get the plug out of the pump. At this rate I might be done by March.

Could I just find something at the hardware store rather than battle with this for the next 3 weeks?

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 12-05-2012).]

Ok, so when I drained the coolant, I removed the drain plug from the radiator completely. Was I not supposed to? Now, I can get it in most of the way but it won't tighten completely, it just keeps spinning. Did I damage it, and is it easy to find a replacement? It's not just that it keeps spinning, but I can't quite push it in all the way.


I finally have everything back together but I have 2 concerns;

I read to use thread sealer on the bolts and as I was doing this late at night, I couldn't run to an auto parts store so I used thread sealer that my Dad left behind who hasn't lived here since the mid 80s! It was really pasty but I was able to coat the threads. It seems like it'll do the job.

and, I read that the bolts need to be tightened to factory specs but I only have hand tools. I tried not to over tighten them, while making them pretty tight. Could there be repercussions to not tightening them to the specs?

Oh, and lastly, is a 50/50 water-antifreeze mix sufficient for winter?

[This message has been edited by FieroGTChile87 (edited 12-07-2012).]