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88 formula 3.4L 4t60 swap started by hercimer01
Started on: 05-14-2008 03:50 AM
Replies: 49
Last post by: hercimer01 on 04-07-2012 08:37 PM
hercimer01
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Report this Post05-14-2008 03:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Hey every one . I just started my swap. I'm having the Las Vegas Fiero club do the work. Its been a few years of research, a wrong car (1984). I had a 93 Sedan Deville and was going to go a head with the 4.9 4t60e, but , the engine struck me as fragile. I moved from Rockford IL to Vegas and had to abandon the first build. While i was in Rockford I lived just down the road from V8 Archies place. I talked to one of his 30K$ customers as a reference and he wasn't happy. I had a rusty 84 2M4 and was a newbie. He basically laughed me out of his shop. I am so happy with the fiero club here in Vegas. Its been like going from Fiero Hell To Fiero Heaven. The Fiero Club Of Las Vegas will be doing most of the work on my 88 Formula I picked up in Phoenix . So this is actually a plug for Rich and Dave. And the cars here are rust free!!! I will post pics and update. P.S. does anyone really know how many axles it takes to do the 4t60?
http://lasvegasfieroclub.org/

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-30-2012).]

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Report this Post05-14-2008 03:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TRiADSend a Private Message to TRiADDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hercimer01:...V8 Archie...I wasn't impressed with him...



Yeah, the Arch-man has a different personality than some - usually younger - buyers are prepared for.

I can tell you, your first impression notwithstanding, you won't find a more knowlegable, more helpful, or more honest Fiero vendor out there. There's a reason the big-buck projects on this forum are all being done at his place - he is the best.

...Just don't let the old-school personality throw you.

------------------
~Michael

Project IMSA Formula Coming Soon!
'85 GT 4sp white - SOLD | | '85 2M6 Auto red - SOLD | | '84 2M4 bare chassis - SOLD
Crap, I'm out of Fieros! Time to buy another!! - "Your mileage may vary."

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hercimer01
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Report this Post06-19-2008 01:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Well the engine is built finally. Double roller timing chain, roller rockers, hardened push rods and hypereutectic pistons. I still need to figure out how to post pics. I had a 4t60 from a 90 lumina rebuilt. tranny brackets from a 91 olds custom cruiser wagon (4t60). For axles I went with NAPA p/n 95-9178 and 95-9208.The speedo governor cap is posing more of a problem to find, HELP?
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Report this Post06-19-2008 02:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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Got the pic thing down.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 06-19-2008).]

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Report this Post06-19-2008 04:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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Getting There.

The tranny bracket in the back ground could be used on an 88 4cyl cradle. i.e. 4.9 4t60e swaps.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 06-24-2008).]

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hercimer01
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Report this Post06-19-2008 02:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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Can someone help me find the right cap for the speedo governor? Can the pulse one be configured with a signal converter? Im using the stock computer for now . Thanks Allen.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 06-19-2008).]

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Report this Post06-19-2008 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hercimer01:

Can someone help me find the right cap for the speedo governor? Can the pulse one be configured with a signal converter? Im using the stock computer for now . Thanks Allen.



Nope. Being there. I was lucky and a good member here sold me one. See my thread: //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/091777.html
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Report this Post06-19-2008 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hercimer01:

Can someone help me find the right cap for the speedo governor? Can the pulse one be configured with a signal converter? Im using the stock computer for now . Thanks Allen.



I just did a 4.3/4T60 swap in one of my 88's. My tranny came from an 86-87 Buick Rivera with 3.8 and it came with the fiero compatible VSS - no changes needed.

My other 88 (SBC/Getrag) runs the reluctor style VSS using a Dakota Digital signal interface to drive the stock fiero speedo - costs about $75.
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Report this Post06-19-2008 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BrewCheeseSend a Private Message to BrewCheeseDirect Link to This Post
The right cap can be a challenge to find. I found another spare cap in my bin of auto trans stuff, if your interested in buying it off me let me know.

Jason
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Report this Post06-19-2008 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Thanks Brewcheese! I sent you an email.
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Report this Post06-21-2008 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
I Found A Governor Cap ! It was in an 86 olds cutlass ciera. I looked for the modulator with two black bands (MV303) on it But every thing had the original big one or the one with the two red bands. Hmm, any difference? Oh and the plunger was still in the car i got it out of.
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Report this Post06-25-2008 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
The rebuilt NAPA p/n 95-9178 and 95-9208 axles. From 89 pont 6000 w/ light duty brakes.


It all fits!


Now it seems every one is hooking the vacuum modulator to the cruise control line. Any one have any experience with this? I bought a new one AutoZone P/N MV303.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-04-2008).]

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Report this Post06-29-2008 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86soon3.4Send a Private Message to 86soon3.4Direct Link to This Post
Replied to your P.M.

Welcome to the madness!

Steve
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Report this Post07-01-2008 07:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Dave did the engine build http://lasvegasfieroclub.org/

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Report this Post07-01-2008 07:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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I did the tranny work (Allen)

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Report this Post07-01-2008 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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Installed July 01 08, Well run it tomorrow.

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Report this Post07-01-2008 08:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hercimer01:

Dave did the engine build http://lasvegasfieroclub.org/




Man, I had a bunch of shirts like that in the 90s... (some with flames, some without). I use them to work on the car now too... wouldn't be caught dead going out in public like that now.

Nice looking motor... I wish they had used a pressure washer on the struts. They did a 105% job 95% of the way, they should have just blasted them for a couple of seconds with a washer, would have made the picture look soo much cooler. But then again, they're probably doing it on a budget.

I think I speak my mind too much...

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2) 5-Speed
1984 Porsche 944 5-Speed
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

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hercimer01
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Report this Post07-02-2008 06:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Motor ran great, I have to work the bugs out of the tcc wiring.
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Report this Post07-02-2008 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CC RiderSend a Private Message to CC RiderDirect Link to This Post
Daves a good guy - turbo next!
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Report this Post07-03-2008 05:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Sorry forged pistons were 750 dollars. I went with hyper eutectic pistons. NOS definitely. Yeah Dave is a good guy. His turbo Thread is //www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/041835.html

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-03-2008).]

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Report this Post07-03-2008 06:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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Well I have been trouble shooting the shift problem. The vacuum modulator (P/N mv303) had to be adjusted clockwise an eighth of a turn to tighten up shifts. In drive (4th), on moderate take off, it gets 1st 2nd and 3rd OK, After 10 or 15 seconds of third it loses torque to the wheels. Come to a stop and take off again with out touching the shifter it does the same thing.

Heres how I wired the TCC.
Pin "C" shows .002 OHMS to the chassis, engine off.






Ive double checked my wiring and I am not getting 12v at pin A with pin C grounded. I am visa versa. I'm leaning towards the 3rd gear solenoid. which i will test by hooking up a remote switch i can operate in the cockpit. I hope its not the torque converter.

Reference also http://snowcloude.com/TurboFiero/FIERO-4T60.html

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-03-2008).]

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Report this Post07-03-2008 06:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
And the speedo seems to work fine. I used a governor cap from an 86 olds ciera. The governor from a 91 olds custom cruiser wagon, i had to swap out the pulse thing on top with a green worm gear from my old three speed. The speed sensor from my old 3 speed.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-03-2008).]

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Report this Post07-03-2008 07:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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I just reread the http://spacecoastfieros.com.../440-4T60/index.html on TV (kick down) cable adjustment. I adjusted it and any thing I did made it worse so its back where It started .

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-03-2008).]

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Report this Post07-03-2008 02:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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I talked to the tranny shop who rebuilt it and they said IT HAS TO BE THE TRANNY AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TORQUE CONVERTER.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-10-2008).]

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Report this Post07-03-2008 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86soon3.4Send a Private Message to 86soon3.4Direct Link to This Post
hercimer01, try disconnecting the tcc and then drive it to see if the torque issue goes away. I wired mine without the relay and it works just like the old th125 tranny.


Steve

[This message has been edited by 86soon3.4 (edited 07-03-2008).]

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Report this Post07-04-2008 05:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Thanks Steve. I disconnected the relay and jumpered the contacts. Still no change.
Allen
Im moving back to Illinois on the 14th done or not the car is coming with. The tranny shop might fix it for me if i have time before i leave.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-04-2008).]

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Report this Post07-04-2008 06:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post

hercimer01

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I think I will swap out the computer just for kicks. maybe the governor first.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 07-04-2008).]

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Report this Post07-10-2008 06:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
I finally struck a deal with the tranny shop. Since i'm leaving for Illinois Monday , they agreed to build me another trans. The Fiero Train is leaving Monday 07/14/08 so if any one needs parts in the Rockford area let me know via PM. Thanks Allen.
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Report this Post08-10-2008 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Well I got the new tranny in and on the mounts. I still have to finish up tues night. Hope all goes well.
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Report this Post08-12-2008 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasDirect Link to This Post
I'll be vacationing in Vegas on the 18th through the 23rd... Staying at Circus Circus, I believe...
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Report this Post08-12-2008 01:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Alex4mulaSend a Private Message to Alex4mulaDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hercimer01:

Well I got the new tranny in and on the mounts. I still have to finish up tues night. Hope all goes well.


I'll be interested to know. The TV adjustment is very touchy. I had a lot of problems with it until I got it right. Still my 2nd is bad. Haven't fixed it yet.
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Report this Post08-14-2008 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
I took it out for a test drive. I got her up to 40 MPH in 3rd and it held third at 2 grand on the tach, then the rear caliper bolt fell out. Too many long nights I guess. Got a new set coming from the Fiero Store overnight of course. I'm satisfied with the transmission. I believe it will tune up OK (TV cable and the Vacuum modulator).
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Report this Post08-17-2008 03:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
It wont grab third with normal acceleration! If i back off the accelerator it will go into third. I've adjusted the TV cable and it shifts at all the right spots. The vacuum modulator (p/n mv303) seems to little effect over all. I wonder if the vacuum supply is right. I T'eed into the cruise control line. Do have to tap a vacuum port into the manifold? A fluid change is in order too i suppose. People seem to think its the clutch pack for third but this is my second tranny with third gear problems. AAARGH.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 08-17-2008).]

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Report this Post08-17-2008 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86soon3.4Send a Private Message to 86soon3.4Direct Link to This Post
You need to tap into manifold vacuum. I t'ed into the port right next to the dist. cap on the upper intake plenum.

Steve
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Report this Post09-06-2008 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Thanks Steve.
Yup. Mee too.
I did have my relay contacts wrong on the N/O, N/C part. now it does engage the TCC in 3rd and 4th, what a difference. I changed the tranny fluid and added a quart of Lucas fluid treatment, now that really helped the shift into 3rd problem. In the morning when its cool (here in Illinois) it shifts fine for the first two miles, After it warms up it starts to miss third. It also seems to shudder and slip a little in 2nd.
I do have a spare 4t60 to rebuild that wont shift into third at all. Me and Tranny Dave should be able to rebuild that this winter. Can you say New F40 6 speed? Possibly a 4t65e I Iike the paddle shift possibilities.

This is addressing my original comment about V8-Archie.

Well I spent the afternoon at V8-Archie's place today for a club meeting before Fierorama tomorrow. I must admit I may have been a little premature in my judgment about him.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 09-06-2008).]

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Report this Post01-16-2009 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Well it's winter and I'm back in IL. I bought a house with a nice big garage. The tranny issues seem to be a bad rebuild, some retainer clip or a sprague in backwards on third gear. Not uncommon from what I hear. Any one else have experience with this?
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Report this Post03-16-2009 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
We tore the 1st tranny down this weekend. The shop out in Vegas forgot to put the inner lip seal on the drum for 2nd and 3rd. We put new seals in and stronger springs in to to help it shift harder.It couldnt build up hydraulic pressure to shift. I will get it swapped out here soon. This was the problem for sure.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 05-29-2009).]

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Report this Post03-16-2009 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for josef644Send a Private Message to josef644Direct Link to This Post
I was wondering if you had ever solved your 4T60 problems. Keep us posted
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Report this Post05-15-2009 01:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hercimer01Send a Private Message to hercimer01Direct Link to This Post
Come to find out there was an O ring left out on the first tranny in the drum. Its fixed and on the bench. The second tranny is out, it was just weak. I ordered poly trans mounts 5/13/09 from West Coast Fieros, just waiting anxiously for them to arrive so i can throw it back together.

[This message has been edited by hercimer01 (edited 12-24-2011).]

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Report this Post05-15-2009 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carbonSend a Private Message to carbonDirect Link to This Post
What was done, if anything, to the cradle to mount that 4 spd? I heard that the 88 was a little more work than the earlier ones...
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