So If I remove the supercharger from an l67 and turbocharge, Do I need to reprogram the computer? Also If I remove the supercharger and put on a NA intake and leave it NA, do I need to get the NA computer or will it be ok? ANDDD does anyone sell a cam for the l67/NA version that brings the powerband a little higher up?

I don't want a supercharged engine, and I don't want an engine that dies after like 4500 rpms.

It would be cool to have a turbo if it is as easy as just putting one on the SC engine, but I wouldn't hate spending like 500 bucks for a 200 hp engine (NA) and just throwing a bigger cam in it (if they make one) and squeezing out a few more horses.

I'm planning the summer swap, I enjoy spirited driving and would like to have at least a 6000 rpm redline. I can always compromise some of these things I want, I am going with a 3800 no matter what, I am already set on this. Just have to decide if its worth getting the SC one.

One more question, If I do go with an engine that is N/A, but I get a bigger cam/valvetrain so it revs higher, will the stock NA be able to take the high revs or am I going to need to swap in the SC bottom end for its strength?

I think 300 hp in a Fiero would be perfect, and I feel that with a turbo set up that can rev/get power to 6000ish rpms... then I will get good gas mileage as long as I stay below 2500 ish rpms and when I want to drive spirited I can take her up higher in the revs and have fun. I just see it as the perfect setup without having to compromise much (besides cost)

i personally am a 60degree fan, but i can answer a few of your Q's,

go with the SC engine, turbo it, get it tuned... youll be at your 300 mark, sit back and have fun.

3800SC will give you what you need. No need to go turbo to reach 300hp.

I just prefer turbos I think Ill get better fuel economy. Its my only daily driver.. and isnt the SC only rated at like 245? What do you have to do to get to 300?

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 02-05-2012).]

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: What do you have to do to get to 300?

A few mods. A good exhaust, Headers, Intercooler, smaller pulley and a tune should get you there.

quote Originally posted by fieroall: A few mods. A good exhaust, Headers, Intercooler, smaller pulley and a tune should get you there.

and all that would cost more than a turbo.. significantly more..

quote Do I need to reprogram the computer?

Depends, but in theory no. You would use a supercharged pcm/file.

quote ANDDD does anyone sell a cam for the l67/NA version that brings the powerband a little higher up?

Turbo cars with different cam setups do not particularly move power around, it just allows for more utilization of the heads, and overall power increases.

quote could I turbo the NA to 300 safely?

The n/a motors give up around the 600hp mark usually.... The L36's are stronger than the L26's.

I would turbo an n/a motor if you want maximum gas mileage. Just get some higher valve springs, 90#/105# to get more rpm. If you get injectors you will need to get the pcm tuned. I think you would max out stock injectors before you were satisfied with the power you want. You are going to end up at about 400hp at 12psi without trying.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 02-05-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: I would turbo and n/a motor if you want maximum gas mileage. Just get some higher valve springs, 90#/105# to get more rpm. If you get injectors you will need to get the pcm tuned. I think you would max out stock injectors before you were satisfied with the power you want. You are going to end up at about 400hp at 12psi without trying.

Not to hijack. But I just picked up a GP that has this regarding engine work:

-M90 setup off a GTP, engine supposedly has 60k on it now.
-TOG headers, 3" downpipe, full 3" catback with flowmaster super 44s and magnaflow tips
-42.5lb injectors
-ZZP 1.9 rockers/ tuned pcm/ 3.4" pulley/ fuel rail

Boosts up to 9psi, I think its the L36. How much should I be making out of shear curiosity? It pulls pretty damn hard.

Well that sounds good to me. Should I put the L67 cam in the L36? And yea I figured that I wouldn't have to reprogram the engine computer as long as I used the supercharged computer and injectors because boost is boost whether its from a turbo or supercharger. I want to go manual transmission, will a Getrag hold up ok to ~300 hp? I know I would have to get the computer reprogrammed to delete the AT codes...

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 02-05-2012).]

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: Well that sounds good to me. Should I put the L67 cam in the L36? And yea I figured that I wouldn't have to reprogram the engine computer as long as I used the supercharged computer and injectors because boost is boost whether its from a turbo or supercharger. I want to go manual transmission, will a Getrag hold up ok to ~300 hp? I know I would have to get the computer reprogrammed to delete the AT codes...

Cams are the same in each motor. Getrag will hold up as long as you don't drop the clutch and shock-load the trans. I've broken a few....it's always a possibility but most of the time when they break its from a hard launch.

I literally just bought the car 2 days ago haha. Doesn't even have tags yet. From what I see in other's cars with similar mods it should be putting down close to 260whp and run a low-mid 13 sec 1/4. IC and cam are probably in the future just to make it a bit more fun.

how crowded does the engine bay get if you dont want to lose your trunk? Do you always need an intercooler with a turbo? If Im only shooting for ~300hp do you think Im going to need an intercooler? Do I need any special knock sensors for the l36 to retard my timing or will the l67 computer take care of that?

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: how crowded does the engine bay get if you dont want to lose your trunk? Do you always need an intercooler with a turbo? If Im only shooting for ~300hp do you think Im going to need an intercooler? Do I need any special knock sensors for the l36 to retard my timing or will the l67 computer take care of that?

You can put the turbo wherever you want. You don't need an intercooler but you can run more timing and be safer with an intercooler. l36 comes with knock sensors, you don't want any knock to take care of... ideally.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

Ok cool I feel that with around 10 psi of boost hopefully Ill be ok

I view the turbo as the next step up from supercharging on a 3800. The gen V supercharger w intercooling can get you to 400 HP with some mods. Beyond that you get into intercooled turbo territory. Th turbo will undoubtedly make more horsepower on a 3800 than the M90 supercharger but I would decide the power level desired before investing in the right size turbo.
As for the original question of whether or not you will need to reprogram. I would say that by virtue of changing your induction equipment, reprogramming is probably the better way to go. With a turbo you are changing the input air flow pattern to the MAF and some correcion to the curve will likely be needed.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

If you only want 300hp, just get a L67 (Supercharged) and a good exhaust, throttlebody, and a cam and you'll be over 300hp

yea but that route is more expensive and less fun. Engine is like 500 more dollars plus the cam and exhaust and throttle body and whatnot is at least 500 and I know from other threads you can do sweet turbo setups for less than 800 and I'm not even looking for anything ridiculous. It might be easier to go supercharged but I don't really care about that I've always wanted to learn how to set up a turbo system and reprogram/tune an engine computer

Could you guys point me in the direction of some good literature to read in regards to picking the right turbo for your application as well as how to set up a turbo and tune it? I understand the principles. Turbine is spun by the exhaust, this spins another turbine that pressurizes the incoming air. More air and fuel = more power. Turbos get hot and the speed of the turbine makes an intercooler useful to cool incoming air. Wastegate releases pressure when the pressure reaches the desired level of boost. Lag while turbo spools. The bigger the turbo, the more that needs to flow out of the engine to spin it.

I just need to read some solid info to now be able to get an idea of what I want to do. I have no idea about tuning however.

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 02-07-2012).]

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: yea but that route is more expensive and less fun. Engine is like 500 more dollars plus the cam and exhaust and throttle body and whatnot is at least 500 and I know from other threads you can do sweet turbo setups for less than 800 and I'm not even looking for anything ridiculous. It might be easier to go supercharged but I don't really care about that I've always wanted to learn how to set up a turbo system and reprogram/tune an engine computer Could you guys point me in the direction of some good literature to read in regards to picking the right turbo for your application as well as how to set up a turbo and tune it? I understand the principles. Turbine is spun by the exhaust, this spins another turbine that pressurizes the incoming air. More air and fuel = more power. Turbos get hot and the speed of the turbine makes an intercooler useful to cool incoming air. Wastegate releases pressure when the pressure reaches the desired level of boost. Lag while turbo spools. The bigger the turbo, the more that needs to flow out of the engine to spin it. I just need to read some solid info to now be able to get an idea of what I want to do. I have no idea about tuning however.

1) You can't do a Turbo setup for $800.
2) 300HP in a Fiero is Fun anyway you can get it.
3) Copy, Copy, Copy ! ! !
4) You don't wan't easy but you want cheap?
5) Google and PFF search is your Friend.

You can easily Turbo for less that 800..... go read Justin's thread again, and know that my first Turbo setup had almost no money in it... it was probably less than 500 as it was just injectors and a Turbo / wastegate

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: You can easily Turbo for less that 800..... go read Justin's thread again, and know that my first Turbo setup had almost no money in it... it was probably less than 500 as it was just injectors and a Turbo / wastegate

I don't think "easily" + turbo + $800 go together for the average person...Unless you have a bunch of misc. parts around your yard, its going to be tuff. Maybe if your building this over the course of several years and WAIT for a good deal to come along for the parts needed; I might be able to see it dun $800...

Heck, exhaust tubing, fittings & clamps alone would prolly cost ya over $100... But maybe you have a source for cheap turbo parts?

[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 02-08-2012).]

quote Originally posted by ALJR: Heck, exhaust tubing, fittings & clamps alone would prolly cost ya over $100... But maybe you have a source for cheap turbo parts?

I think that figure is a little high. You still have $700 to go, continue...

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

I dont plan on doing anything fancy... welding a plate to the exhaust manifold output on the l36 for the turbo to bolt to, cutting away part of my trunk(from the side not bottom), exhaust can go underneath like stock with a muffler or glasspack attached almost at the turbos exhaust output. Then its just piping to the intake, and a little oil line from a T off the oil pressure sender. And then it will depend if I go intercooled or not. I will already have the l67 computer, and Ill need some l67 injectors. I don't see all that costing more than 800 dollars, especially because I'm in no rush. L36 will happen this summer for sure, depending on the summer job I get, turbo may or may not happen this summer. I have a welder and torches and lots of tools and bunches of experience with fabrication. I know how all the little costs can add up, I have done a swap before, but I think 800 is a good guess for a simple turbo setup based on what I have seen other forum members do/ the price of turbos on ebay.

My 3.1 turbo was a little less than 300 hp. It got what I consider poor gas mileage, like 17mpg on the road...20 on a long trip if I was ginger with it. That could have been just because you get a lead foot with some power. Mine revved up into the 6500 area. Builder said it would do more, but I never pushed it as it was a daily driver. I think thats quite a bit less miles per gallon than a stock 3.1. I wouldnt plan on better gas mileage with any forced induction, at least not any I experienced. Ive only had 2 cars with turbos. This Ferrari kit and a LeBaron (84?) ES600 that came with one stock. The LeBaron was a 4 cyl too and I dont remember it getting very exceptional mileage. Ive never had a supercharged engine in anything.

I would try to have it setup so I made boost around 2500 rpm or a little higher and then just stay under that if I wanted to get good gas mileage. The l36 gets crazy good gas mileage somewhere around 30 mpg highway in a fiero. But thats why I want to put in stiffer valve springs so I can pull hard to around 6500 rpm so I still have plenty of revs to play with above 2500 rpm for when I want to drive quickly. And turbos are known for getting better gas mileage than superchargers and the l67 gets pretty good gas mileage so I am guessing a turboed l36 would get even better gas mileage even when boosting.

So yea I understand Im going to get worse gas mileage than on a stock l36 if its turboed, but Im hoping by staying under boosting rpms Ill get around the same gas mileage.

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 02-07-2012).]

You can expect minimum 35 highway with a turbo L36 behind an auto.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: You can easily Turbo for less that 800..... go read Justin's thread again, and know that my first Turbo setup had almost no money in it... it was probably less than 500 as it was just injectors and a Turbo / wastegate

This $$$ is VERY misleading as Justin car was ALREADY supercharged and running pretty good. First you need to do the swap $2000 minimum IMO. But go 4 it, Turbo is the way to go just you are going to get sticker shock. Hell the Fuel pump and injectors are going to cost you $300 minmum. Not to mention a clutch that can hold the power another $300. The only GOOD turbo's that I see for ~$150 are Holsets but then you need Wastegate, BOV, Flange, IC,Intake Piping to run it.

I understand, I was hoping I could get a fuel pump and injectors used from a forum member who had upgraded their setup already and save a little money that way. Why would the swap cost 2000? I could get the machine work on the flywheel done for free, engine is around 600 dollars delivered, or I could go to a junkyard and pull one for even less. Computer I will have to figure out if I can delete AT codes myself or to send it to ryan. Other than that its just a whole bunch of time doing the wiring harness and figuring the exhaust out. I have a great exhaust shop near me where they fab great exhausts for not a lot of money. I was thinking more like 1000 bucks for an l36 swap if I do all the work myself. I have a stage two kevlar clutch already, my fuel pump is brand new so it should handle the l36 no problem. I have no AC so Im gunna mount the alternator there. What are the things that bump the cost up so much? I want to set aside the money starting soon

[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 02-07-2012).]

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: What are the things that bump the cost up so much?

All the little things add up quick...
There are threads floating around here that list all the items required to do the swap. Find the list and see what you can do your self and how much its going to cost to aquire the rest... Keep in mind some ppl just toss the motor in and make it work while other take the time and make it to look good as well...

You don't need much for an exhaust with a turbo. The turbo itself quiets the exhaust down quite a bit.

Very cheap and simple, less than $50. This is quieter than any 3800sc exhaust I've heard. I think I had less than $30 into my oil feed and return (stainless braided feed and a badass used aeroquip oil return line with -AN fittings.)

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

Your exhaust is nice no wonder it cost you 500. I wouldn't do anything near as fancy, I would just have a 90 degree bend out of the stock 3800 manifold, probably no cat, and have the exhaust all exit on one side. Very little material, low cost. Being in college limits the funds
I do however need to do new gas lines, Im running rubber ones right now (high pressure lines) to the 2.8 from the 2.5 location. I plan on fabricating a metal bracket that bolts to the engine and to the stock 2.8 engine mount.

One of the main things I am unsure of is how all the gauges get hooked up. do the signals the 3800 sends get read correctly by the tach and the coolant temp gauge and the oil pressure gauge and so on?

I am also planning on making the whole wiring harness able to disconnect from the car in sections to make pulling the engine super easy. Same thing with coolant lines, going to put them one and have some aluminum tube coupling that can be used to connect the two coolant lines in the car together so the engine can be pulled without have to drain all of the coolant. Gas lines will also have quick disconnect. I plan on spending a lot of time on this before I put it into the car, I want it to be nice and reliable and convenient and done well. Im also planning a lot of cleaning and painting. Should I replace any gaskets on the engine? Intake gaskets? Im excited I love this stuff

http://upload.wikimedia.org...or_nickel-teflon.jpg

something like this for quick disconnect. Have it mounted in engine bay and then no worries and no taking apart the center console and taking the ECM out to drop the engine or remove the wiring harness to get at stuff on the engine

or even this

http://www.industrial-toolz...power-connectors.jpg

I think it would be convenient

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: You don't need much for an exhaust with a turbo. The turbo itself quiets the exhaust down quite a bit. Very cheap and simple, less than $50. This is quieter than any 3800sc exhaust I've heard. I think I had less than $30 into my oil feed and return (stainless braided feed and a badass used aeroquip oil return line with -AN fittings.)

lol... Your forgetting about the rest of the tubing required for installing the turbo

You call that en exhaust? Its just a dump-out, no way he could use that for a DD...

EDIT to add: When I said "exhaust tubing" previously, I ment all the metal tubing required; including the intake...

[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 02-08-2012).]

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: I understand, I was hoping I could get a fuel pump and injectors used from a forum member who had upgraded their setup already and save a little money that way. Why would the swap cost 2000? I could get the machine work on the flywheel done for free, engine is around 600 dollars delivered, or I could go to a junkyard and pull one for even less. Computer I will have to figure out if I can delete AT codes myself or to send it to ryan. Other than that its just a whole bunch of time doing the wiring harness and figuring the exhaust out. I have a great exhaust shop near me where they fab great exhausts for not a lot of money. I was thinking more like 1000 bucks for an l36 swap if I do all the work myself. I have a stage two kevlar clutch already, my fuel pump is brand new so it should handle the l36 no problem. I have no AC so Im gunna mount the alternator there. What are the things that bump the cost up so much? I want to set aside the money starting soon

Good luck and I hope you meet your price point but don't say no one warned you about the $$$. It's going to add up hella quick and BTW. Time=Money
The 2.8 fuel pump won't work. You NEED a much higher flowing one. I am going to use the exact same one as Justin (Deatwerks DW300 ) $168 shipped.

Only DH and Justin can seem to build super cheap..err inexpensive swaps.

quote Originally posted by ALJR: lol... Your forgetting about the rest of the tubing required for installing the turbo You call that en exhaust? Its just a dump-out, no way he could use that for a DD... EDIT to add: When I said "exhaust tubing" previously, I ment all the metal tubing required; including the intake...

Well at least for mine, the turbo flange is welded right to the stock 2 bolt flange. My exhaust is quieter than a stock 2.8 fiero exhaust and is more than suitable for daily driving. There is a 3"x24" resonated glass pack in there.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

I thought the 2.8 fuel pump works fine with stock l36?

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: I thought the 2.8 fuel pump works fine with stock l36?

I thought you were going Turbo. Stock l36 didn't come with a Turbo.