yea I plan on going turbo which is why I wanted to make sure I could go with a 3800 NA and it would survive with a turbo, but for the moment I am just swapping in the 3800. That is for certain. The turbo will come later, maybe near the end of the summer, maybe next summer. Ive just been trying to see what Im getting myself into and what the costs of the turbo addition will be once I have already done the swap. So, if I put the computer from an SC engine on a naturally aspirated engine, is it going to run like crap? Im only asking because it would be nice to not have to buy another computer later when I do the turbo.

You will need to have the PCM's programming changed if you use a N/A 3800 now and then later put a turbo on it. You cannot use stock 3800 SC programming on an N/A engine; it won't work right. I wouldn't even use stock 3800 SC programming on a turbo setup; especially if you are going to slap a turbo on your L36 N/A engine. The ignition timing settings won't be correct and I doubt neither will the fuel. After you install the turbo setup, you should really have a good, hands-on tune done to your PCM to make sure the settings are 100% compatible with your build. Failure to do this can be asking for trouble.

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend turbocharging an L36 (or L26) N/A engine, period. These engines have weaker internal parts than the SC engines and they also have higher static compression ratios than the SC engines. The higher compression is going to make the engine more prone to suffering from detonation when you throw boost at it; and when you couple this with the weaker internal N/A parts, you create a higher probability of catastrophic failure occurring. Justinbart had a turbocharged L26 engine and it chucked a connecting rod out the side of the block not too long ago while he was driving down the highway. While it did last an amazingly long amount of time, it finally failed on him when he didn't expect it - which proves these engines aren't that durable when you put boost on them nor can you predict when something like a connecting rod is going to fail if you overload it. You may not be as lucky as Justin (and your engine may not last as long as his did). I can tell you if you don't have a proper tune on that PCM you are using when you slap the turbo on - it probably won't last a week.

My advice would be to go ahead and do the L36 swap now (if you already have the L36) and enjoy it until you are ready to do the turbo. Doing this will allow you to get your mounts and wiring built and all the bugs worked out of the swap while you are waiting on the turbo upgrade. Then, when you are ready to do the turbo, I would pull that L36 out and install (at the very least) a stock L67 or L32 shortblock topped with whatever heads and intake you plan on running with the turbo. If your budget allows, you can build up the L67/L32 engine you plan on using with the turbo to suit your performance needs.

I'm sure other people will disagree with me and they'll say you can turbocharge a stock L36 all day long. They are entitled to their opinions but that's all they are. It is a proven fact that N/A 3800 engine internals aren't as durable with boost as the SC 3800 parts are. And you need to ask yourself if you are willing to roll the dice with your car, or not; based on someone's opinion posted on an internet message forum. After all, it is your car and YOUR money funding this project; not theirs. You certainly don't have to do what I suggested either but I just wanted to make you aware of all the possibilities and potential pitfalls.

I know N/A 3800's are cheap, but the labor to swap them out isn't free and neither is the towing bill if it decides to puke out on the road.

GOOD LUCK!

-ryan

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OVERKILL IS UNDERRATED

Custom GM OBD1 & OBD2 Tuning | Engine Conversions & more | www.gmtuners.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 02-08-2012).]

Thanks ryan, I do think the l36 is stronger than the l26, and it has the same crank and block as the l67, but I will consider these things you have brought up.

how hard is it to retune the computer? I'm not trying to take your job or anything like that, and I am most likely going to send my computer to you, but I've always wanted to know how to do it for in the future

quote Originally posted by zkhennings: Thanks ryan, I do think the l36 is stronger than the l26, and it has the same crank and block as the l67, but I will consider these things you have brought up. how hard is it toetune the computer? I'm not trying to take your job or anything like that, and I am most likely going to send my computer to you, but I've always wanted to know how to do it for in the future

Nothing Special or magical with the process. (if you know what your doing).
I have a pretty good "base" tune that has a few performance tweaks, DTC code, and fuel injectors disablers removed.
Then I take that base tune and change tables for each of the options you want.
For Example if you have 42.5 injectors, No EGR, LQ4 MAF, 185* T-Stat, then I will change the base tune to include these options plug the PCM to my DHP powrtuner and 1 minute later it's done.

I recommend you get a DHP or HP Tuner and learn for yourself if you like to "do your own thing" I change my tunes often trying to run that elusive 11 sec 1/4 mile.
A wideband in car tune is the next level of performance tuning but it is NOT needed. The mail order tunes offered by guys like Ryan should be "good enough" to accomodate most.

I wouldn't say it is hard to tune a PCM yourself, but if you don't know what you are doing, you could easily change something that could spell doom for your engine.

If you have never tuned a PCM before, there is a lot of information freely available on the internet you can go and read which should give you an idea of what to do. But you should keep in mind that different people have different ways (and opinions) of how to do a tune.

I've had enough experience tuning different setups that I can usually set someone up with a one-time mail order tune that will work good for what they are doing. There are exceptions to this, especially with more radical setups. Turbocharging is one of those instances where you really should have a "hands-on" tune done. There are a lot of variables when it comes to turbo builds because no two people use the exact same parts nor do they have the swap set up the exact same way. If you were to build a turbo L67 swap into a Fiero, I could probably make you a base tune that would work good enough to get you going, but you are certainly going to want to have that tune evaluated by someone looking at data scans and wideband O2 AFR numbers to make sure it is working good with your setup. I certainly would NOT suggest to just use any one-time tune (made by anyone) and then forget about it and never check the scan data or wideband AFR numbers to make sure they are safe for your engine.

Like nosrac said, you can get DHP or HP Tuners and tune it yourself (I would suggest using HP Tuners as it is much more refined than DHP and has techical support provided by the vendor who sells it). DHP has been out of business for a number of years and the last time I used their software it was so full of bugs I considered calling an exterminator. The only support you'll get for DHP Powertuner these days is from other people using it which may not be of any good help to you.

The L36 may be marginally stronger than an L26, but it still uses lighter duty pistons and rods than what the SC engines do. Throw in the fact the L36 has higher static compression than an SC engine, and you leave yourself very little margin for error in the tune or otherwise. I'm sure if you have it tuned perfectly and you don't push your luck with this engine it will last a long time. But the problem with most turbo setups is the fact that it is easy to turn up the boost to make more power and most people have a hard time resisting the temptation of doing that.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: but the problem with most turbo setups is the fact that it is easy to turn up the boost to make more power and most people have a hard time resisting the temptation of doing that.

True story. One reason why I'm not putting in larger injectors.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

The only failure you should be wary of in the n/a motors is the rod size... its nearly half what a boosted rod is.

You are not going to find the limits of the rods under 500 crankhorsepower.... The L26 has the weakest rods out of the bunch, followed by l36, and a tossup between l32 and l67. Both of the l32 and the l67 rods have proven to be more or less unbreakable.