I've been toying with the idea of swapping a larger more powerful motor into my 87. I've looked a lot at the L67 swap and it sounds like a great gain in power for the least amount of headache.
Well, I'm not a trained GM tech. I am, however, a factory trained Toyota tech...so I got to thinking about Toyota engines.

Have any of you driven an 05+ Avalon or 07+ Camry with the 2GR-FE engine? Absolute BULLET Think I can make it work in my Fiero?
More power than a supercharged 3800, plus Toyota reliability...sounds good on paper...

Any insight?

[This message has been edited by 2Point8FieroGT (edited 01-11-2012).]

Not much for aftermarket support I don't think.

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Yes, I've driven my friends 2011 V6 Camry SE. It's a fairly fast car, but I don't think it's going to make all that much power compared compared to a SC3800 in a Fiero. The Series II makes 240HP stock, the Series III makes 260HP stock. The Toyota V6 makes ~270HP stock. Most of the SC3800's in the Fiero have the 3.4 pulley, which is cheap power.

There's a person on the forum that's put a VW engine in a Fiero (bmwguru I believe), so with enough skill anything is possible. You'll just be going into a lot of new territory.

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-Chris
'85 V6 SE 4sp (SOLD)
'88 GT Auto (fun car)
'99 Kawasaki Vulcan 500, owned since new
'03 Sentra SE-R Spec V (Daily driver)
'09 G37x w/ Premium & Nav (wife's car)

If you're going to do a Toyota engine, 4A-GE, or 3S-GTE. Either of those would fit the personality of the car very well IMO, and have great aftermarket support.

The MR2 guys like to swap in the Toyota v6, so I don't see why it wouldn't work in a Fiero.
It would make a really nice and smooth running daily driver and you could always s/c or turbo if you want more power down the road.

If we're talking about pioneering new engine options, I think the Toyota would be pretty far down my list. All 3 of the domestic manufacturers have v6s that make upwards of 300 hp. GMs own 3.6 is up to 322hp this year I think. More HP, plus you'd get to keep it GM. If you want to go foreign, Hyundai's 3.8 makes upwards of 306 hp, and is being upgraded this year in the genesis coupe to 348 hp. The Nissan VQ motors have been around 300 hp for years, and is now up to 320+ in the newer 3.7. At one time Toyota may have had some of the best motors, but I think it's getting harder and harder to make that case.

You being a Toyota tech sort of changes things a little bit. You probably have access to free/cheap parts from lots of wrecked cars, and access to all the technical info you might need to make it work. So in that respect, the Toyota motor makes sense.

If you're dead set on a toyota motor, I think it would be a cool swap and would probably make for a kick ass, great running fiero. I just think there are better engines out there that would require the same amount of work.

You have to consider other things like altering suspension, transmission, clutch, etc. You can do just about anything, but starting with a custom tube frame at the ground might be necessary to make some work.

I have a Vibe GT with the 2ZZ motor and 6 speed. Its rated at 180hp and in the Vibe its a fun little motor. I've had two MR2 guys offer to buy the car because they like to upgrade to the 2ZZ. I always thought it would make a fun, daily driver to have a base 88 coupe with the 2ZZ. I'd pull the motor/trans and all the needed parts and do a swap into the coupe.

Like others have said, anything possible, but I would think that assistance from Pennocks will be limited, you will be breaking new ground, and not a lot of folks will be able to offer any help.

Good luck if you do it, and theres nothing wrong with being the first to try.

Rob

Is the 2GR-FE the same engine Lotus uses in the Evora?

I think you forgot to include torque numbers in your calculations here....

Simple fact is 3800 + 3000lb fiero = 12 second quarter miles. I am doubting your TOYota motor could live up to a task like that.

My son's white MR2 race car below had a Camry V6 and it was very fast - ran in the top 5- and it now has a newer version of that engine! It's going to the dyno Saturday for tuning whereas, it just got an aftermarket computer system for the V V T. I wish I fit enough to race it.
Just keep in mind, the further outside the box you go the more time and less chance of getting it done you get.
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trueleo.com
RSpiderII@aol.com

[This message has been edited by Francis T (edited 01-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Chris_narf: There's a person on the forum that's put a VW engine in a Fiero (bmwguru I believe), so with enough skill anything is possible. You'll just be going into a lot of new territory.

And another that did a 4cyl Nissan engine.

Little bit of "outside the box" conversation going on here.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/087996.html

quote Originally posted by Xyster: Is the 2GR-FE the same engine Lotus uses in the Evora?

Yes.

I hate to say it (because I hate TOYota) but this might have some merit.

Check this out!!!

[This message has been edited by Xyster (edited 01-13-2012).]

whoa what a response!

Quite a few Toyota (and foreign in general) haters in here...which I guess would be expected in a Pontiac forum...

Being a Toyota tech, and owning an 07 Camry SE with 2GR were what drew me to that engine in particular. The fact that it makes more power normally aspirated than the 3800 does BLOWN says a lot about the engineering that went into the engine. Aftermarket support isn't much of a worry to me, if I did a 3800, it wouldn't get much more than a pulley and a chip. The car will be mainly AutoX and road courses so 275-300hp is just about right as long as the car's balance and suspension geometry aren't adversely affected.

I do like the suggestions of the 3S-GTE and believe me I have considered it, but doesn't the fact that it's an MR2 motor make that blasphemy? 4A-GE would be another beast- endless aftermarket support, and the sound of individual throttle bodies makes the front of my pants a little tight. I have trouble swallowing the fact that I'll be removing a V6 to install an L4, though.

Back to the 2GR- I can weld, so mounts will be fabbed. How about wiring? How much of the body harness is incorporated into the engine harness, or vice versa? Coolant hoses I can figure out. The corvette fuel pump used for the 3800 swap should pump enough for the 2GR, right? Throttle and Shift By Wire removes the need to route throttle and shift cables. I can get CV axles custom made with a Toyota trans side and a Fiero hub side.
Anything I'm missing?

Go for it sounds like a cool swap...Can't beat Toyota reliability!!!!

Well yes, this is a Pontiac/GM forum, I'm not a fan of anything import whatsoever. Toyota most so.

But usually, very little of the body harness is used in a Fiero, however I can't speak for Toyota power-trains since I have never dealt with them.

its your car do what you want.........i would like to see it.

why not swap an mr2 instead of ruining a fiero like that? I know people do it and could have a kit out already

i was also a toyota tech for 5 years and i say do it! one set back is going to be the price of a used engine and getting a toyota ecm to agree with working in a fiero.. i think you would need an entire camry to pull out the wiring because of the security system.. another option would be to research what lotis did for engne management in the evora..

Strange obsessions abound. As for the whole "x" does 12 seconds in the 1/4, so anything less is unworthy argument, I say pfffffffffft. We'd all be safer if a lot more people had a lot less horsepower in their hands. I think of lot of it has to do with the misconception of the energy involved in even one horsepower. The car was plenty of fun with the original V6, so anything up from that is gravy. If the goal is a smooth operator with decent fuel economy and a little fun factor thrown in, then there is absolutely nothing in the world wrong with either the Toyota or Nissan engines. Once you exceed certain power levels you then have the concurrent costs of brake and suspension upgrades. Even the 1MZ is a nice compact powertrain without the inherent complexities of the later 6's. As for mad swapping, personally I would look for the one that hasn't been done....and do that. Anything is possible, most things are doable. Like traction plus reaction, it's all time plus commitment. Some of these guys won't be happy till everything on the planet from Battleships to Bicycles has a damned Buick V6 in it . . . . LOL.

lots of close-mindedness in here. i have an open mind for doing things a bit different and outside the box and i have a few ideas of my own for achieving what has previously been shot down.

the most difficult thing i can see being would be the shifter linkages and maybe the axles. wiring is simple to me, just tedious. i say go for it! you have your goals/ideas set and the swap is within reason and standard that you can understand. im sure fuel efficiency might be increased as well.

[This message has been edited by americasfuture2k (edited 01-16-2012).]

How about a Nissan VQ37VHR or VQ35HR V6?

The VQ37VHR was the first production engine from Nissan using VVEL. It has an increased compression ratio of 11.0:1, with 3,696 cc (225.5 cu in) displacement (95.5mm bore and 86mm stroke), while redline remains at 7600RPMs.

It is rated at 332 hp at 7,000rpm and 269 ft·lbf at 5200rpm.

Although the engine gains only 0.2 kg·m (2 N·m; 1 ft·lbf) peak torque over the VQ35HR and this higher torque arrives at 5200 rpm vs. 4800 in the VQ35HR, the torque curve itself is improved and flattened via VVEL variable valve timing for better throttle response and low rpm torque. The VQ37VHR engine has been touted by car magazines and reviewers as an improvement over the VQ35HR engine mostly adding much refinement and smoother engine operation, especially at high rpm where the VQ35HR engine was frequently criticized for NVH and sounding strained, harsh and loud.

The Nissan V6 made the Wards 10 best engine list FOURTEEN years in a row!! GM's 3800 V6 made the list for only 3 years in a row.

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 01-16-2012).]