I have been lurking and reading about this, but want your opinions. I want a cheap, easy way to beef up my 87 fiero steering and suspension. What would you do?

As you know, the wheel base is much wider and the tires are much wider than the fiero.

Check out the suspension redesign thread. It's not that easy. May I also recommend www.madmechanics.com?

Also budget about $80k+ for a complete Murcie. Please don't hack up an '88 Fiero just to abandon the project halfway. Once you widen the suspension all the benefits of the '88's suspension design are negated. So any year Fiero would work. Better yet, a tube frame chassis. There are several builders out there that make great spaceframe chassis.

Good luck on your project. It's not an easy, nor cheap one. Once you start it, post pictures either here, or on madmechanics. We love great build threads!

edit: Sorry, didn't notice you have an '87. If you just want to widen the track go to HT Motorsports. It does not change the handling at all, since the geometry is basically unchanged. Another way (which I personally wouldn't suggest) is wheel spacers. Note: these can be scary, and don't buy cheap ones. Bearings failing, wheels falling off, etc. isn't very fun.

[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 12-02-2011).]

SO were in Idaho are you? I live in Coeur d'Alene.
I completed a Murcielago build last summer. Installed HT Motor Sports (now West Shore Fabricators) Bump steer removal rear with a 4" stretch and a 3" stretch slalom suspension setup on the front. However you do not need the slalom suspension on the front ,it is really for racing. They do make a sport suspension setup that would work very well.

Joe Sokol

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

80K is much higher than my initial cost breakdown. Thanks for the links. I need to find to most easy to do upgrades for the fiero. Brakes look easy .... and that is about it 3800 and suspension will be the tough ones from what I am hearing. I will definitely post pics here and at Mad. I frequent both sites. I have a lot of advice to get before I jump into the project full force.

Trust me, If you haven't got $80K to invest, it will never be completed.

Archie

quote Originally posted by mram10: 80K is much higher than my initial cost breakdown. Thanks for the links. I need to find to most easy to do upgrades for the fiero. Brakes look easy .... and that is about it 3800 and suspension will be the tough ones from what I am hearing. I will definitely post pics here and at Mad. I frequent both sites. I have a lot of advice to get before I jump into the project full force.

Joe,
I am down in the Boise area. When I come back up north, I would love to see your car, if it's ok.

Archie,
I plan on keeping the $$ down by doing everything myself. The exterior will be very close to matching the real car. The interior will be new looking, but with very few expensive Lambo parts. I plan on spending my $$ on lots of fiberglass materials so I can build a lot myself. It won't be an exact replica due to funds, but from the outside, most people won't know the difference. My only goal is to make my wife happy with the look of it and that will be easy. Do you have any pointers, since you have been down that road? I can use all the help I can get

mram10 I`m with you on the cost.
I have had a few discussions on MadMechanics about build cost.
People like to just throw out a number not even knowing your level of expertise or how authentic or any number of things you might have ideas on.
There was a guy here in Texas building Countach replicas that you could buy turnkey for just above 20K.
Would they fool enthusiasts? NO
Would they fool most of the people on the road, who have never seen a Lamborghini. Probably.
Do they have a cool factor. Most definately.
So I say build on.

This is just one example in a very small percentage of parts you need to aquire for a replica.
I want to eventually build a replica, so just playing around I bought a sticker sheet for the gauges and a fairly nice front lit gauge.
I popped off the glass cover of the gauge and the needle, installed the overlay, put it back together and it looks great.
About 15.00 and although I don`t know what OEM Lambo gauges cost I`m sure it`s a lot more than 15.00.
That`s just one example of hundreds that you can use to save money.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 12-02-2011).]

Good to hear TX. I understand his $80k for some guys out there (8k just in tires and wheels), but I am with you on making a "budget" build that is nice, but not meant to be an exact replica. Where did you get your gauge kit? Also, would gauges from other cars be compatible? I was thinking of using the gauges from the grand prix if they look cool enough in the new housing I am going to build. Definitely open to ideas.

Mram10, some time ago I read that, whatever your estimate for the cost of a swap is, you'll need 3x that amount to actually get the work done. I found that to be true with my swap; I've spent much, much more than my estimated $2500, even though I'm doing all the labor and fabrication myself.

I'm not here to be a complete pessimist, though. To keep costs down on the engine, use a 3800 series 2, stick with either a Fiero or 4t65e transmission, and stick with a setup that is easy to tune.

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My project: 3800 Series III Supercharged + F40 6-speed into an 87 GT. Wish me luck!

Thanks Raccoon,
What would you suggest? I have a 3800sc ii lined up, but don't have the tranny figured out. She prefers stick, but is fine with either. Which model tranny(donor?) would you get? Also, I read somewhere to get the non-elec tranny (4t60??).

I think I used the Vision brand and the Cockpit Black line.
I bought the overlay stickers from a guy On MadMechanics.
I think he sells them also on e-bay.
You have to use backlit gauges because the stickers are not transparent.
I will post a pic of the one I did tonight.

Contact this guy, he has all kinds of stuff.


http://www.madmechanics.com...r-plate-buttons.html

The best way to not spend $80k on your build is to not keep good records.

quote Originally posted by Brastic: The best way to not spend $80k on your build is to not keep good records.

Done!!

TX,
Thanks. I would love to see pics. Also, I will check that guy at MM. I frequent there.

quote Originally posted by mram10: Thanks Raccoon, What would you suggest? I have a 3800sc ii lined up, but don't have the tranny figured out. She prefers stick, but is fine with either. Which model tranny(donor?) would you get? Also, I read somewhere to get the non-elec tranny (4t60??).

Use the transmission that came with the engine. The 4T65E-HD.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Use the transmission that came with the engine. The 4T65E-HD.

Will do. Thanks. It is great you guys are helping me out. I appreciate this. If you need help with bolt action LR rifles or high end speakers, let me know

Here is the gauge with the Lambo temp overlay.

TX,
Those will work. I was even considering throwing some nice gauges from the sebring I pull the steering column out of. Or maybe the grand prix I pull the eng.trans out of. Who knows.

1. Just found a 99 Grand Prix GTP for $1200 for eng/trans and whatever other parts look nice.
2. Found a sebring column for $100 with keys.
3. My kit car with donor fiero will be here in the next 2 weeks.(trade)
So far things are coming together. Please let me know if you see anything in my threads that can be done better or cheaper. Here we guy guys! I will start a build thread in the next couple of weeks to keep you posted and so you guys can save me from mistakes!

If you are looking to widen the suspension on the "cheap" and don't want to use spacers, many years ago before the wide track kits were available many builders would cut the front crossmember down the middle and rebuild new frame mounts on the crossmember. This would allow you to use all the stock suspension parts. You would have to build tie rod extensions depending on how wide you need to widen the suspension. The steering rack mounts would have to be moved as well. I have NEVER used this method but I have seen it used. If you do a search you may be able to find an old website that has a few pics.

Mike

Msaby,
Thanks. I was hoping to pull one from another car if possible. Welding steering and suspension parts seems a little risky.

What other options are there for widening 2" each side?

Next time you come up let me know and we'll get together and talk.

What kit are you building?

Also as others have said be prepared for sticker shock, building a kit car is not cheap. On the Murcielago I did we spend $6k just in parts to make it work.

Joe Sokol (208) 699-2648

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85 SE Daily driver with a 3.4 DOHC OBD II
88 Formula/GT 4.9 Allante Intake (My Baby)

Sounds good FieroKing. I know it won't be cheap, but it won't be over $15k. I plan on having a nice interior, but far from replica. The exterior will be gorgeous, but not exact either. Can't afford to buy all those oem parts. The wife will love it whether it is a perfect replica or not. Let me know if you make it down to Boise.

Is there anyone near Boise,ID that has experience swapping a 3800sc/4t65e?

WOW 15K. I'm not so sure that's going to be possible but you may want to make a cost breakdown before you invest your money. I am building a diablo and I went through 15K very quickly and my car is not completed. The things you don't think about are the ones that get you when doing a build ie. steel, hardware, hinges, fiberglass cloth, resin, latches window tracks and motors, switches, LIGHTS just to name a few. These items add up quickly. You may want to PM CCIE he has a lot of replica and OEM parts at a fair price.

Good luck with your build and please post pics of your progress.

Mike

Msaby,
Thanks for the input. I know it can be very expensive, but I am going to try my best to keep it there. I already got the streched fiero, G24 body kit, grand prix gtp(donor engine/trans), new seats and steel for under $4200. I will keep you posted. Again, this is not going to be a "true" replica. It will just be a very nice clean car that I build. It will take the place of the 57 Nash I started for her .... until she saw one of these

Check kitcarforums.net it is alot better and has all the murci builders

Try Ebay. There's two replica selling right now. One for 15k and another one for 23k.

Ok, back on topic. What is probably the best option for the money for upgrading the suspension and adding about 2" to each side front and back?

quote Originally posted by mram10: Ok, back on topic. What is probably the best option for the money for upgrading the suspension and adding about 2" to each side front and back?

http://www.westshorefabrica...KitCarSuspension.htm

So, no front ends I can get off another car for a bolt on?

Has anyone swapped the suspension from another vehicle that adds 2" on each side??

quote Originally posted by mram10: So, no front ends I can get off another car for a bolt on? Has anyone swapped the suspension from another vehicle that adds 2" on each side??

No, there is not.

If you are planning on keeping it under 15K
I will suggest getting adapters made.

I will be up front,
unless you are very talented or work at a body shop.....
I don't see it happening for 15K.
There is a reason why you see so many unfinish kits for sale.
The Lambo kits are the most difficult ones.
Good luck with your project.

The mustang 2 front end is a common solution to many hot rodders front suspension upgrades. Based on the design, I don't see why you could not order one with the proper spacing. If you look at the pictures online, the aftermarket versions usually have a square tube connecting left and right sides. Just get one with an extra 4". Sure the steering rack is bolted to the front and it would require an extra 2 inchs on either side to reach the spindles. Now whether or not this set up would fit your application depends on your level of customization to the space frame. (Read between the lines and get a used one and widen it yourself.) My personal opinion is that anything is possible, you just have to decide what is in the best interest of you project and budget. Why not take an 88 front suspension setup, it's already an inch + wider on either side and choose your wheels accordingly. Yes it would have to be adapted to your 87 chassis, but it's been done before.

The 15k seems like a tight budget but I'll be the first optimist around hear and say that I believe YOU can do it! I'd take it as a challenge to prove others wrong. Fiberglass and resin is expensive retail but is cheaper if found online at auction or used etc.

Oh yeah, we need pictures!!!

On my Ferrari kit, the only thing not completely stock was the use of Bilstien shocks and struts and I threw away the steering damper. It even had its original unvented OEM 86 brakes. Everything was completely rebuilt though. I enjoyed it and put 100K on it in about 7 years with no problem at all. On the Diablo kit, it was also bone stock, but I didnt keep it long enough to be able to rate it. The kit was crap and I got rid of it first chance I got.

A Diablo kit on bone-stock Fiero suspension? Got any pictures of that?

It`s safer and rides better with a widened suspension but considering you are going from a 6" rear wheel to at least a 12" rear wheel with a lot of negative offset you can get the outer lip pretty close to where it needs to be.
Plus if you were to use wheels with a different bolt pattern you can gain an inch with wheel adapters and you only need about 3 inches on each side of the Fiero to match the Diablo.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 12-06-2011).]

85Lamb,
I see your point, but I will be doing ALL of the work myself. I am ok with body work and painting, so that saves my 6-8k right there.

Reallybig,
Thanks, I will look up some threads about this. The mustang swap sounds good. I love welding and fabbing stuff, so as long as someone can point out the pitfalls, it should work.

Not with kits specifically, just with fabrication in general.
I have read a ton of info though from people who have built them.
I, like you have wanted to build a kit but just haven`t gotten around to it.
I have faced the people who say that there is no way you can build a kit at a specific price, but I have always thought that was a generalized statement from someone who doesn`t know your skill level or commitment to authenticity.
There have been amazing feats performed by people who have little resources.
I have tried to find an article I read a few years ago about a guy who built everything for a Countach replica.
He did buy a 1/2 finished kit for like 5000 but then he ended up finishing it for a grand total of about 12000.
He made a lot of his own hardware , grilles and such to save money.

TX,
Now that gives me hope It doesn't have to be a perfect replica. Just needs to look sweet and run great for her. Not trying to pass it for real.

I think you're better off going with longer control arms than the Mustang setup. Should give you more room for a deeper offset wheel & therefore less scrub radius & easier steering.
Might want to contact Boomtastic if you want more info on the Mustang shtuff. He has one under his front-engine drag car (but I don't think he installed it himself). Or maybe just visit his website... www.boomtastic.com
I would love to see pics of the Nash. Is it a Metropolitan? Actually I would love to have it to put my turbocharged 318 in... ('cause TEN projects just ain't enough!).
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Custom Fiberglass Parts