Driver,
It's for sale! It is a 57 ambassador custom with AC. Neat old car. First year of the 327 too. hate to sell it, but it was going to take more time than this murci build.

I will contact him. I would love to find something the exact width so offset looks right, but if the mustang even gives me a few more inches, it is thinner spacers I will need.

OK.



I did lengthen the wheelbase. But otherwise its just like it left the factory in 86. Same on my Ferrari kit. I also did a Ford GT40 kit. Those were all my personal cars. Did others for customers. The GT40 was on a tube chassis w/ Porsche 911 brakes and flat 6 with webers.

I saw no need to do any suspension mods. They rode comfortable and all cornered on rails. I never had a problem stopping from over 120 mph.

Heres one of the Ferrari kit

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-06-2011).]

Roger,
So would you do it differently now? What other options are there to even widen by a few inches?

I got the wheels out where they needed to be by different offsets. Ferrari had 16x8s all around, Lambo had 16x8 fnt and 16x10 rear. If i remember the rears had 4 inch offset. The GT40 had G60X15s all around (old Goodyears). The Lambo ran great with all new parts, engine and trans...just the body kit was total junk. I had to simply throw the roof panel away and start from scratch to get one to fit. OEM Lambo windshield glass ($1500) was over an inch too big for opening. Gas filler was on wrong side. Thats just to name a few major flaws. Get a kit from a good builder and get lots of positive recommendations from past buyers before you spend your money. Mine was 'supposed' to be the best Diablo out there from Warlock. It would be best to use in a stunt movie where your going to demolish it.

IF you do want to modify it, id suggest buying or fabricating longer A arms. Just remember, doing so will alter the scrub radius of the front when you turn.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-06-2011).]

Thanks for the input. I need to go look up "scrub radius" I sure am learning a lot on this forum.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I got the wheels out where they needed to be by different offsets.

OK, I understand you now... you don't consider the wheels part of the suspension. Suspension designers however, start with the wheels and tires and design inwards from there. I consider them to be an integral part of the suspension as well.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: IF you do want to modify it, id suggest buying or fabricating longer A arms. Just remember, doing so will alter the scrub radius of the front when you turn.

This isn't true. Changing the offset and width of your wheels to get them further outboard is what detrimentally alters the scrub radius. The correct way to widen the track of a car without affecting the scrub radius is to change the length of the control arms.

Here's why: If you look at the car from the front (or rear) and draw an imaginary line between the upper and lower ball joints until that line hits the ground, that is where the center of the tire contact patch must be to have zero scrub radius. When the two are in the same location, the tire pivots about the center of the tire contact patch when you turn the steering wheel. On the other hand, installing wider tires and greater offset wheels on your car moves the center of the tire contact patch away from this imaginary point on the ground. When you turn the steering wheel, the tire will pivot about the point on the ground described by the two ball joints, NOT the center of the tire contact patch. That means the further away the contact patch is, the more the front tires will walk around in an arc on the ground rather than simply pivot on the spot.

That leads to several problems: harder steering effort, movement of the tire fore and aft in the wheel well causing rubbing when turning, jarring in the steering wheel when one wheel hits a bump, increased tire wear when turning, and modified suspension dynamics such as toe, caster, and camber changes. That's also why most people consider the wheels an integral part of the suspension.

On the other hand, installing longer control arms moves the wheels further outboard, but also relocates the upper and lower ball joint further outboard as well. This keeps the center of the tire contact patch in line with the ball joints.

You might be correct, im not the engineer. I just go by what Im told. I think both of those had 2 inch offset on fronts. The tires on the Ferrari still looked great after 100,000 miles. They wore across evenly and had prob another 30,000 on them. I cant say on the Lambo, i didnt put 100 miles on it.

From way I understand it, front end geometry makes the inside wheel turn sharper than the outside because it has to track a wider circle. That inevidably makes one tire slip 'sideways' to some extent, and thats called tire scrub. My Firebird TA was so bad with stock wheels, the outside wheel even jerked and slid when making a sharp turn backing up...and less so moving forward. It felt so bad I had the front end checked for some kind of damage. It was all good and in alignment.

Blooz,
So, can I simply cut my control arms and extend the upper and lower by the same amount? 2" in this case. Then simply get axles built for the new length? I am on a budget and need to find a way to fab this stuff myself. Thx.

Check out this video and its related videos. 1/2 hour well spent and very educational.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...t=PL0DF83D9EA53F2E7A

These videos are very enlightening in the complexity of modified front suspension. The guy even claims this setup to be the easiest to work with. I couldn't imagine how a difficult setup might be to work on!